DVDizzy Forum

It has come to my attention that most members here don't even support Disney anymore but are still posting on a Disney Site and probably also buy Disney Dvd's. I don't get this! I mean, the term "Disney fan" speaks for itself. If you don't support the company you can't call yourself one in my opinion. I support them in everything they do, I will keep being a fan of their work!

What do you guys and gals think about this?

I Agree with you completely Jens If You Are Going To Be On This Forum You Better Only Be Saying Things Of Good REport About Disney.

No that's not what I meant. Of course Disney has negative points and today there are a lot of them, but there are members on this board that don't have anything postive to say about Disney. I mean, what's the point in joining something that represents something you don't like?

Jens, do you think we should support cheap DTV films and a management that is killing the department that built the company? I don't think so...
I think we should support high-quality films, even if the general public doesn't do so.

I love Disney, but that doesn't mean I'll eat up all the crap that the executives try to throw down our throats. I will always support Disney and their artists that are always trying to do their best to keep the tradition that Walt started... and that doesn't aply to mr. Eisner and company.

I agree with you Joe, but everyone is already taking judgements before Disney releases anything! I mean, just wait untill they release it. THEN post your reaction to it. It's like everyone stopped believing in Disney. Well I haven't! See Brother Bear and you'll see why...

I second what Joe said. I know you're thinking of people like me, Chris, Ernest, and HP when you say "some people", Jens. But we support the potential of Disney - what they could really accomplish. The Disney of today could most definitely give Pixar a run for their money - with cel-animated features, no less - if the damn execs would just let the artists off the short leash. But everything's so money-driven now that there's no room for risk or innovation - pleasing the investors with quarterly reports is the biggest priority. >_<

So no, I will not accept this atrocious regime of milking existing properties and formulas, while putting out safe, yet ultimately bland, new films. It's an absolute 180 of what Disney used to start for, and I for one find it appalling. I won't be a blind follower - because the company that calls itself Disney these days is anything but.

And yes, I know prejudging a film before it comes out is unfair, but contemporary Disney has such a bad track record that it's fairly easy to handicap any upcoming films as mediocre. Executive micro-management certainly won't let anything dynamic slip through...

I am sorry that I kind of got carried away on the Good Comments about Disney issue I understand what you mean now Jens thanks for explaining.

I'm not sure I agree about your comments about lack of risk and innovation.

Atlantis was an innovation for Disney. The Emperor's New Groove was a risk. Both were films that were not in the traditional Disney style. Home on the Range looks like it will be innovative for a Disney film.

In fact, of all the critisisms of the above films, one is that they had too much innovation and/or risk and didn't draw the familiar Disney audiences as a result.

Disney is basically 2 operations. The DTV's (which I'll admit have, on the whole, shown no major risk or innovation) and the Feature Animation which has still shown as much risk and innovation as, for example, in the mid-70's. Even going CGI can be classed as a risk and innovation... because it's new for Disney.

Also judging from this comment, Disney are looking to innovate the CGI medium with their first CGI film:

slapmagic on AnimationNation wrote:I think how Disney will stand out from other CG houses is that there will be more of a children's book quality to them. They'll seem more painterly. They'll seem more "hand-drawn" even if they're not.

Pixar's pictures are beautifully art directed and they have a distinct character in CG Animation. We all know its generated by the computer and it looks great.

However, Disney is going through great lengths to make the CG Animation look like it was painted. Chicken Little looks like an animated storybook. There's some pretty incredible things going on with texture mapping to make the characters and backgrounds all blend beautifully into their own reality.

I'm not supporting Disney's studio closures (remember, these closures have been going on for a year at least) and I'm not supporting Disney Feature Animation's almost exclusive move to CGI - but I think Feature Animation has shown considerable risk, innovation and imagination (even if the past few years haven't been their best).

Totally agree with you 2099net! By the way, like I said in my previous post in another topic Disney is just creating DTV's to keep the money rolling in for the feature animation films. If you like the feature animated films or not, that's something else... All that I (and 2099net) are saying here is that Disney is not only DTV at the moment. They are developing some great stuff as I hear!

Dear Jens,

Since you support everything the company does, I think you'll be wildly excited to learn that they have offically shuttered (closed) the Disney animation studio in Orlando and have no plans to make any more Feature Length Hand-Drawn (or traditional 2D) animated films. Instead their animation department is going to focus exclusively on CGI films and will most likely, due to this, let their contract with Pixar lapse, which means that after Cars, future Pixar films will not be associated Disney.

Excellent news, No?

T






the following is from Jim Hill Media.


A JHM Exclusive: In-depth coverage of David Stainton's meeting yesterday with the WDFA-F crew
Only JimHillMedia.com can actually put you inside the room as artists and technicians confront the President of Disney Feature Animation as he tries to defend the corporation's decision to close the Central Florida studio.

"Do not go gentle into that good night ... rage, rage, against the dying of the light."
-- Dylan Thomas

Okay, so this meeting wasn't actually held at night. But -- even so -- the crew from Disney Feature Animation-Florida did NOT "go gentle." From everything that I've heard about yesterday's meeting with David Stainton -- when it was finally revealed that the Walt Disney Company would in fact be closing down its Central Florida animation operation sometime later this year -- there was a lot of anger in the room. Particularly when people began openly booing Stainton as he feebly tried to defend Disney's decision to shutter the studio.

The final meeting of the Disney Feature Animation-Florida staff was held upstairs in the multi-purpose room at the Disney-MGM production facility. In the exact same room where -- back on November 17th -- the team learned that production of "A Few Good Ghosts" was abruptly being halted and that WDFA management was seriously considering closing the Central Florida facility. So -- as you might expect -- none of the 250 artists and technicians in attendance had particularly fond memories of that room.

At approximately 10 a.m., veteran WDFA producer Pam Coats, WDFA-F studio head Andrew Millstein and President of Disney Feature Animation David Stainton took the stage. What they said surprised no one:
That the Walt Disney Company HAD decided to close down Feature Animation-Florida later that year. That certain "core people" would be offered contracts to come on out to Burbank to work on other WDFA projects there. But as for the rest of the WDFA-F crew ... They'd be paid through March 19th, then let go.

In hindsight, several of those in attendance believe that it was the unfortunate use of the phrase "core people" that eventually set the audience off. After all, fewer that 50 WDFA-F staffers had been offered jobs back in Burbank. Which seemed to mean that the rest -- some of whom had worked for Feature Animation-Florida since the studio first opened back in May of 1989 -- were expendable. Suddenly obsolete. That image apparently didn't sit well with the assembled artists and technicians. But -- for now -- they held their tongues.

Still, those in attendance couldn't help but be touched by Pam Coats' heartfelt speech. After all, Pam had been with Feature Animation-Florida right from the beginning. Having produced both "Trail Mix-Up" as well as "Mulan," there was no one in the room who doubted that Coats was really upset at the idea that the Central Florida facilty had to close.

Then Stainton stood up to speak. I'll say this much for David. He supposedly did the best he could. Laboring mightily to put the best possible face on this whole awkward and awful situation. Stainton reportedly started his remarks by praising to the hilt all the wonderful work that the WDFA-F team had done over the past 15 years on various Disney animated features.

Stainton then allegedly went on to say that it was really nothing personal. It was just that Disney corporate had decided to go another way with WDFA. Rather than run several separate animation studios in far-flung corners of the globe, Disney would now go back to its old 1980s model. Where all of the unit's talent was located under one roof, working together on the very same film.

So far, so good, don't you think? No huge gaffes on David's part, right? Okay, so some of the WDFA-F staffers in attendance doubted Stainton's sincerity. But at least the guy had shown up. Stainton hadn't fobbed the job off onto one of his flunkies.

But then David apparently made a crucial error. He threw the meeting open for questions. And this is where things really started to get away from him.

The crowd -- already angered by that "core people" comment -- peppered him with pointed questions. Which supposedly started with: "Why is the Walt Disney Company flooding the feature animation market with all these low quality direct-to-video sequels?'

Now Stainton (who -- it should be pointed out -- up until very recently was actually in charge of Disney Television Animation, the division of the Walt Disney Company that makes those direct-to-video films) supposedly tried to defend his old division, saying "Now they're not low quality films ..."

... Only to be shouted down by all those assembled.

David reportedly tried to continue, insisting that "the public couldn't really tell the difference between the direct-to-video stuff and the films that Feature Animation actually produces." This comment was also met with boos.

Sensing that he wasn't exactly going to be able win this crowd over by answering that question, Stainton quickly moved on to another query. Which allegedly was: "For the footage that I've seen so far of 'Chicken Little,' it's clear that we're just trying to copy Pixar now. Why isn't Disney trying to make its own kind of CG films?"

David reportedly tried to reply by saying that it was Pixar that was copying Disney, not the other way. That Pixar had borrowed Disney Animation's old production model (I.E. Keeping all of its artists under one roof, concentrating all of its resources on one film at a time). How Pixar had established this "braintrust" of directors and story people who helped each other, who worked together so that that studio could always get the most out of every single project.

"Disney needs to get back to that sort of production system in order to stay competitive," Stainton supposedly continued. "But -- in order to do that -- we have to shut down all of our satellite studios like Paris, Tokyo and Orlando."

Following up on the Pixar question, one of the WDFA-F staffers there reportedly asked: "How is Disney Feature Animation going to distinguish its computer animated films movies from all the other CG features out there?" Stainton allegedly said that he wanted WDFA to start producing CG movies that " ... that have songs. Movies that have heart. Movies that definitely have humor. Movies that push the art of the film-making forward." David then supposedly went on to say that -- once Disney got started making CG films that featured human characters -- that ".. that's something that's going to set us apart" from what Pixar, Dreamworks and Sony are doing.

Given the way that Stainton had answered the above question, it was clear that the Mouse was now going whole hog for CG. Which was when one brave WDFA-F staffer reportedly stood up and asked the $64,000 question: "So it's true, then. Disney's actually getting out of the traditional animation business?"

Stainton allegedly said: "Yes. For a while, anyway." This response supposedly immediately brought boos from the audience. Which is why David reportedly began to back pedal, saying things like: "We do have two new traditional animated projects in development. And -- if it were the right time and the right project came along -- I'm sure that we'd do 2D again. But -- for right now -- Disney's going to concentrate on doing just CG."

The traditionally trained WDFA-F staffers began booing Stainton's presentation in earnest at that point. To hear that the Walt Disney Company had officially decided to turn its back on traditional animation just made the group furious.

Sensing that the meeting had somehow taken a really bad turn, Stainton quickly handed the mike over to WDFA-F studio head Andrew Millstein and refused to answer any more questions.

Andrew tried to get the meeting back on course. But Millstein got choked up as he tried to get the final pieces of the agenda, mentioning the various operational things that still had to be done in order for the studio to be properly shut down. Someone started singing that old Irving Berlin standard, "There's No Business like Show Business." Which -- for some odd reason -- got a laugh out of the crowd.

And with that, the meeting was over. 15 years of hard work dismissed in less than an hour. As everyone shuffled out, someone commented on the danish and the rhubarb cake that WDFA-F management had provided, saying "This is the first time that I've been to a firing that was catered."

Stainton, absolutely humiliated at the way the meeting had ended (Said one wag: "He couldn't have handed that microphone to Millstein any faster. You could see that he just wanted to flee that room"), disappeared almost immediately.

Grumbling angrily, the WDFA-F staff filed out of the building. Some of them for the very last time.

(Well, maybe not. There's talk that there may actually be a WDFA-F going away party. One last shindig for all the staff who ever worked at the Central Florida studio. Either in the fish bowl, the trailers or the fancy schmancy new building. So that this crew can all get together one last time and say "Goodbye" ... before they all head their separate ways.)

Mind you, some WDFA-F staffers were quietly approached as they exited yesterday's meeting. They were then quickly pulled into nearby offices by members of WDFA-F management. Where they were reportedly offered contracts that would allow them to continue to work for Disney Feature Animation. IF they agreed to relocate to Burbank. But given how badly these staffers had treated over the past eight weeks by the Walt Disney Company, many of those artists and technicians who were approached yesterday just laughed and said "Hell, no."

So -- all in all -- it was a pretty terrible day for Disney Feature Animation. With 200 WDFA-F staffers being laid off or fired by March 19th, the president of the division jeered, and a dozen or more artists and technicians actually turning down work rather than returning to the Disney fold. Mickey got himself a black eye today that -- I'm afraid -- won't fade for years yet to come.

Your thoughts?



My thanks to the many members of the Walt Disney Feature Animation-Florida family who quickly came forward yesterday to share their impressions of what sounds like a pretty emotional meeting.

englishboy wrote:Instead their animation department is going to focus exclusively on CGI films and will most likely, due to this, let their contract with Pixar lapse, which means that after Cars, future Pixar films will not be associated Disney.

Disney claim 2 traditional animated films are in development, in addition to the still to be released Home on the Range. To be honest, I'm not sure I believe them.

As for Pixar, personally I think both Pixar and Disney will be better off their distribution contract does expire. Pixar are too big now, and don't need Disney (that's an Eisner decision nobody seems to complain about - under Eisner Disney basically funded their own competition) and if Pixar stays with Disney, unless one of their films seriously flops, they will always overshadow Disney Feature Animation (traditional or CGI). When the time comes to decide the best opening slot, who will Disney favour... Pixar or themselves? It's likely to be Pixar at this moment in time. How does that help Disney Feature Animation?

Continuing the distribution deal will only hold Pixar back in their ambition to become a proper studio and continue to distract the focus from Disney's own films. I think it's odd that Roy Disney is so pro-Pixar to be honest, when they are effectively replacing Disney films.

And when it comes down to it, a Pixar film will be a Pixar film, whether distributed by Disney, Fox, Universal or Pixar themselves. Nobody will miss out.

I think it's madness that Disney seem to be repeating their Pixar mistake again, not only with Vanguard, but with Shadedbox too (and possibly Rocket Pictures). They clearly would be better off funding their own productions, rather than going into more co-productions.

There seems to be even more films coming from the new Disney - Chicken Little, Gnomeo and Juliet, Fraidy Cat, Valiant, Rapunzel Unbraided, A Day With Wilbur Robinson, Let's Get Francis... all are either confirmed or rumoured.

englishboy wrote:Dear Jens,

Since you support everything the company does...

I think that what Jens is trying to say isn't quite coming out the way he wants it to.

I will try to clarify, and if I am wrong Jens, please do correct me!

Jens seems to be saying to me that he finds that there are many people who seem to always be bashing Disney, films, DVDs, whatever on a regular basis. He is saying that he finds it strange that these individauls would sign up on a Disney message board, only to chat about subjects that they seem not to like very much, if at all.

I don't think Jens supports every single thing that the company does or likes every single thing. But he is a fan and seems to enjoy most of their product, as many of us do. I think that he is just trying to figure out why some people who don't seem to like it very much at all keep buying it and posting about it.

Am I correct here Jens?

Although I shudder at the death of 2-D, I really do'nt mind the CGI. It's really, just the lackluster storylines-can Disney do anything that's not a comedy anymore? Chicken Little? Three Pigs? RAPUNZEL UNBRAIDED????

I only disagree with 3-D animation.

Anyways, if your a football fan you don't always agree with NFl officials.
Or if your a NASCAR fan it dosn't mean you agree with the choices it makes. You have to disagree on some things.

There are some rather lengthy replies here and I have NOT read any of them yet, so if this has already been stated to some degree I apologize, but here's my take.

Being a fan of something certainly entails an emotional attachment. I'll use my love of the Philadelphia Phillies (that's a basebal team for those not in the know) as an example.

I've been a Phillies fan, more or less, since birth. It was a rite passed down from my father, although I took it to the extreme of loving ALL the Philly sporst teams. Anyway, when you are as passionate about something like that you become very emotional in some respects. You take so much pride in the good times and absolutely agonize over the bad times. There have been times that I have questioned why I bring so much misery on myself, but that's another topic entirely.

Now...where the hell was I?

Oh...the point is true fans, IMO, are those that do get emotonal. If they see something they don't like then they adamently voice their displeasure. They talk about what it is they don't like and offer opinions as to what can be done. When it comes to Disney and recent trends many don't like, I don't question for a moment the fact that those folks are true Disney fans. The fact that they are so emotional about the subjects speaks volumes to me, and while I may not agree with what some say I admire the passion behind their arguments. I've often said that in some cases, where the best form of protest would be to not purchase a particular title, that I'm usually not strong enough to do that. So for someone to turn their backs on an entity that has probably brought them so much joy shows a dedication (in some aspects) that really shows how much a fan they truly are.

Alright, I'm done rambling. Hope some of that made sense to someone because right now even my dog is looking at me funny

You Are Right. I agree that we should talk a bout Disneys Fine Points and that it is okay to talk about their bad points but we should not dwell on Disney's bad points.

indianajdp wrote: Oh...the point is true fans, IMO, are those that do get emotonal. If they see something they don't like then they adamently voice their displeasure. They talk about what it is they don't like and offer opinions as to what can be done. When it comes to Disney and recent trends many don't like, I don't question for a moment the fact that those folks are true Disney fans. The fact that they are so emotional about the subjects speaks volumes to me, and while I may not agree with what some say I admire the passion behind their arguments. I've often said that in some cases, where the best form of protest would be to not purchase a particular title, that I'm usually not strong enough to do that. So for someone to turn their backs on an entity that has probably brought them so much joy shows a dedication (in some aspects) that really shows how much a fan they truly are.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, Indiana. Escpecially about not having read the really long posts

In all seriousness, I think the fans that complain with a passion are the true fans. That does sound odd, but if you love something you take the good with the bad. It doesn't stop you trying to change the bad points though.

But in this regard, I think we have all let each other down. Myself included. Where were we when Disney started shutting down stuff? Did we make our voices heard as we should have? Did we truly do enough to stop every 2D division (beyond Disney TV in Sydney) from being closed? As an advocate of grass-roots protest, I am a little disgusted with myself that we did do ENOUGH complaining to the RIGHT people.

It may not have made any difference in the long run, but at least we could have said we tried. Now, this doesn't apply to all of us - I know there are some vocal letter-writing members of this li'l community, and I salute them

So Jens - when you say that you support Disney in everything they do, you are certainly not alone . I have , and always will, love Disney for the joy they've given me over the years. But there is a right time to disagree sometimes (especially when it means 1000s of jobs around the globe), and I think the people on this forum have every right to complain now about EVERYTHING Disney animation does.

I think you've got something there, Indy. And no, no one else brought up that point before you - and a very good point it is. It's all in the emotional attachment, people. As pathetic as it may seem to a non-fan - we here just lurve our Disney films.

Maerj wrote:

englishboy wrote:Dear Jens,

Since you support everything the company does...

I think that what Jens is trying to say isn't quite coming out the way he wants it to.

I will try to clarify, and if I am wrong Jens, please do correct me!

Jens seems to be saying to me that he finds that there are many people who seem to always be bashing Disney, films, DVDs, whatever on a regular basis. He is saying that he finds it strange that these individauls would sign up on a Disney message board, only to chat about subjects that they seem not to like very much, if at all.

I don't think Jens supports every single thing that the company does or likes every single thing. But he is a fan and seems to enjoy most of their product, as many of us do. I think that he is just trying to figure out why some people who don't seem to like it very much at all keep buying it and posting about it.

Am I correct here Jens?

Absolutly what I was trying to say! And about the other replies...

I don't agree with EVERYTHING they do. But every topic that is posted here has something bad about Disney in it nowadays. Even when they didn't see the particular movie yet (See Mulan 2 and Lion King 1 1/2 topic). Disney is having some troubles now, ok. But they ARE doing great things at the same time too. Everyone is just focusing on the bad stuff, and that's not good... for a forum full of Disney fans it isn't

Joe Carioca wrote:Jens, do you think we should support cheap DTV films and a management that is killing the department that built the company? I don't think so...
I think we should support high-quality films, even if the general public doesn't do so.

I love Disney, but that doesn't mean I'll eat up all the crap that the executives try to throw down our throats. I will always support Disney and their artists that are always trying to do their best to keep the tradition that Walt started... and that doesn't aply to mr. Eisner and company.

I agree with joe