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Protests May Leave Pullmans Trilogy As One of A Kind
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:38 pm
by Chernabog_Rocks
Hope this hasn't been posted already
Perhaps it has disappeared through a window into another universe, like its characters.
It looked increasingly unlikely yesterday that cinema audiences in this world will get to see the planned film sequels in Philip Pullman's children's fantasy trilogy, His Dark Materials.
Sources in the film industry said that plans for a sequel to The Golden Compass appeared to have been put on ice following the fervent Christian protests surrounding the first film, which led to boycotts and box office disappointment in the United States.
Pullman told The Independent that he had not yet been contacted by Shepperton Studios and was not aware of any imminent plans to film the sequel, The Subtle Knife. When the first film was in production last year, he was regularly contacted by Chris Weitz, its writer and director.
"I know everyone would like to see a sequel and I know I'd like to see it. When the first film was in production, I was talking to the studio and to Chris Weitz and producers quite frequently. I'm sure I would be now if the sequel was in production," he said.
Weitz said yesterday he did not want talk about the project while the studio responsible for the first film was refusing to discuss the future of the trilogy.
When The Golden Compass was release last year, New Line Cinema had high hopes for the trilogy as the new The Lord of the Rings, and the sequel was due to be released by the end of 2009.
But then the Christian boycotts started and the film sunk in the US, making a meagre $70m (£35m), although it took a hefty $300m internationally. New Line has since been merged with Warner Brothers.
Pullman said he would be dismayed if the original cast, which included Nicole Kidman and the then 12-year-old lead child star, Dakota Blue Richards, were not able to reprise their roles. "The problem with having a child in the cast is that time goes by very quickly, [and they change]... I would love to see her [Dakota] carry on the story and I'd love to see Nicole Kidman fulfil the full development of her character," he said.
If the sequel to his trilogy, His Dark Materials, was not made with the original cast, Pullman said he would harbour hopes for a sequel in the future with a fresh cast that may not meet the same level of religious protest.
The plot of the three books revolves around a fantasy world where the Reformation has never happened. This parallel universe of talking animals and witches is ruled by an oppressive Catholic institution known as the Magisterium. The challenges to religious institutions become more confrontational with every book in the trilogy, culminating with a war on heaven. Weitz, an American-born Cambridge graduate, has been vociferous in his passion for Pullman's original text, insisting on staying "true" to the trilogy if or when sequels are made. This outspokenness may have added to the studio's wariness.
Pullman said protests in America had done little to help its release, with parents protesting against the allegorical challenges to the Catholic faith. "There was a lot of fuss over that," he said.
Dan Jolin, the features editor of Empire magazine, who accompanied Weitz in the cutting room last October, said at the time that Weitz was determined to make a sequel, having saved material from the first film. Weitz told Jolin that Pullman's trilogy was influenced by Milton, and that Northern Lights, the book on which The Golden Compass is based, "is this rather beautiful idea that God kind of left all these spare bits lying around and that, for all we know, there are other universes".
Michael Gubbins, the editor of Screen International, said it was unlikely that the film could be brought out by next year, especially in a tough box office environment with "trilogy congestion" in following months, but that the franchise was likely to be revisited in the future.
*sigh* I don't know why parents are concerned about the allegorical "challanges" considering their kids might not even pick up on it unless the parents explained it to them. I never picked up on stuff like that in any movie, I still don't and it's because I'm too busy enjoying the damn movie to care about picking it apart looking for things like allegorical challenges, racial stereotypes etc. etc.
I say make the movie, if they protest let them look at Disney for example, they persevered through the Baptists Boycott. Might not be the best example but it's all I have at the moment. I really hope the next movie comes out, especially with the way the first one ended.
Thoughts, comments?
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:20 pm
by Isidour
It's so unfair that just for a bunch of stupid short-minded christians many people who wished to see the next based-on-the-book adventure
The only thing that some fantasy could do to their little mind would be to expand it, and not let it be so narrowed as their f****g parents
Re: Protests May Leave Pullmans Trilogy As One of A Kind
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:18 am
by Simba3
Chernabog_Rocks wrote:
Thoughts
This is ridiculous
Chernabog_Rocks wrote:
Comments?
I am SO sick of religious groups thinking they have the right to decide which movies do and do not get made based on their own personal belief systems. Reality check - this is AMERICA!! Freedom of speech, art, expression! Here's an idea, if you don't like the message a particular film is relaying - DON'T SEE THAT MOVIE! I know this sounds absurd, but it's just a simple suggestion.
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:40 am
by Disneykid
I don't think the boycotts are what caused the first film to tank at the box office domestically. I think first and foremost was the fact that New Line shot themselves in the foot trying to make the film more mainstream at the last minute. It was no secret that they cut out an hour's worth of footage and re-filmed existing scenes without Weitz's involvement. I bet a lot of people figured, "Why should I spend my money on a hackened film when there'll probably a director's cut released on DVD?" I bet if New Line had just left the dang film alone, it could've done very well. Until the news of their tampering was released, I was positive that the film would make it to $200 million domestically as the buzz and marketing for it were very strong. Then a month and a half before release date, things spiraled out of control. In all honesty, the news about the studio's recut seemed more prevalent in the news to me than the Christian boycotts.
I think if the sequels are still going to be made, they're going to have no choice but to recast Lyra and Roger as a ghost. Lyra's development into a woman is very important in this series. While her role in the story can still be accomplished with her as a teenager, her growth spurt from Golden Compass to Subtle Knife is going to be awkward, especially if they use the first film's cut ending as the opener to the second one. The best solution is probably to re-film the original Golden Compass ending with the now older Dakota Blue Richards and Ben Walker.
I just wish Warner Brothers (who now fully owns New Line) would release an official statement as to whether or not the sequels are getting made. This decision is what's holding up the director's cut for Golden Compass, since how that cut will end depends on whether or not sequels will follow.
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:01 am
by Disney's Divinity
In all honesty, the news about the studio's recut seemed more prevalent in the news to me than the Christian boycotts.
That must be because Christians are boycotting so many things, nobody cares anymore.
While I admit I wasn't that interested in these films, I don't see why fans of the book series should be denied just because a few seem to find it harmful that anyone watch anything they find unacceptable. Personally, I never thought the series would be that good on film in the first place.
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:45 pm
by TM2-Megatron
I wasn't that big a fan of the first movie (it was allright, though), however I think these will eventually get made. Nobody really cares what religions protest, anymore; it's slowly but surely on the way out.
Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:27 am
by Widdi
Ugh, if they aren't going to film the Subtle Knife and The Amber Spyglass at least give us everything they filmed for The Golden Compass. I have refused to see the movie thus far because of what they did to the ending. I can't see how the movie would make any sense if it didn't end with Lyra entering the sky to travel to a new world. That's what the whole freaking book lead up to!
Stupid studio tampering and religious groups who think they have the right to tell everybody else they are wrong, but can't be told that themselves every now and then.
We need a directors cut with original ending. We need it now.
Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:39 pm
by littlefuzzy
Yeah, I still remember the day that Congress passed a law prohibiting anyone from going to see this movie, because of the Christian protests!
I think it was just a few weeks later that Congress ordered all copies of the movie destroyed, and enacted hefty fines for any consumer caught with a copy of the DVD.
Did they ever arrest the director and actors, or are they still fugitives, hiding in Canada? I know they froze the assets of some of the producers.
Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:09 pm
by Siren
So much for freedom of speech when they are intimidated by churches.
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:00 pm
by littlefuzzy
Siren wrote:So much for freedom of speech when they are intimidated by churches.
Freedom of Speech can only be infringed by the government. The churches have the right to protest, and an entertainment company (for example) has a right to make a product in spite of the protests, or to choose to not release it, fearing lost profits.
Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:20 am
by Prince Edward
Siren wrote:So much for freedom of speech when they are intimidated by churches.
So true!
Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:19 am
by 2099net
Actually New Line had and exercised their freedom of speech when they made the film, just as the Churches had and exercised theirs.
Just because certain people, even perhaps the majority, chose to listen to one over the other doesn't mean anyone or anything was being repressed. That's just over reacting. There's lots of places were cinema is censored and controlled and simply used as propaganda, so don't get carried away.
If you want to be angry with anyone, be angry with the public who listened and didn't question what the churches were saying.
Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:59 pm
by Maerj
I enjoyed the film and *really* enjoyed Nicole Kidman's character in it. Its too bad it didn't do better at the box office.
I read that the reason that the ending was cut was so that it could be used at the beginning of the second film. The reason for that was to give Daniel Craig's character a bigger part in the film since he wasn't in the second book as much as the first.
Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:30 pm
by Widdi
Maerj wrote:I enjoyed the film and *really* enjoyed Nicole Kidman's character in it. Its too bad it didn't do better at the box office.
I read that the reason that the ending was cut was so that it could be used at the beginning of the second film. The reason for that was to give Daniel Craig's character a bigger part in the film since he wasn't in the second book as much as the first.
Which is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. No Lord Asriel isn't in the book, but big deal. Starting the Subtle Knife with the introduction of Will is the only way that would make sense. If not it would just be a scene after Lyra crosses over randomly introducing this boy...
Hollywood really does have a way with mucking up marvelous source material...
In other "Dark Materials" news, I just started reading The Amber Spyglass and I gotta say I'm curious as to how New Line would handle the naked, homosexual angels... That could be a huge bone of contention with the church don't you think?
Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:38 pm
by Mr. Toad
I dont think boycotts had much to do with it tanking either. I think A) It was not a very good movie and B) The marketing campaign was flawed, trying to market a violent movie towards small children.
Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:20 am
by Disneykid
Actually, the excuse New Line has been using for cutting the ending is that test audiences were confused about Lyra entering Citagazze at the end. They thought it somehow meant she had died and was going to heaven. While it may be true that some audience members thought that, I doubt that was the main reason New Line wanted it axed.
When I first read the book, I was appalled at the ending. I felt like Pullman had Lyra go through everything she did seemingly for nothing. Of course, once I finished the series, I saw the importance of the first book's ending, and now I love it. My guess is New Line was afraid movie audiences would be just as aggravated about the ending as I was (my friends reacted the same way when they read the book).
As for the two angels, I actually think it's very easy to make that relationship vague. There are no scenes in the book of them actively expressing their love for each other, merely implications. The movie can make it subtle enough that audiences can either interpret them as lovers or as best friends.
Really, I think the last two books aren't that difficult to adapt as long as they don't ever use the name "God," and especially if they get rid of the scene where the angel explains to Will that the Authority is known as Jehovah in our world. Personally, that was the only scene that really bothered me. Without it, I (and hopefully open-minded audiences) can take it at face value that the Authority is a fictional deity in Pullman's universe (well, he's not really a deity, Dust seems to be, but you know what I mean).