DVDizzy Forum

Not to burst anyone's bubble but I didn't know if anyone's aware of this already, but hey check out for yourself

It's an ancient animated film originally envisioned by Richard Williams called ''The thief and the cobbler''
It's been in the making for nearly 28 years and was just recently released through Miramax. However, this is not the movie that was originally intended.
The maker and his son were unable to finish their original concept due to budget issues and the fact that filmdistributors did't saw much in it, and thus leaving it up for grabs, eager disney hands that is!
And so Aladdin was born!

Don't think me wrong, I LOOOOOOve Aladdin
(chaeck out the avatar to prove it )
It just strikes me odd that 2 movies can look so alike!
And since ''Thief....'' was here first (like 28 years!!!) I find myself questioning disney's intentions, all was not well at The House of Mouse back in 1992!





Princess Yum Yum



Early princess Jasmine concept art



this eventually turned disney style.....




Everyone's favorite sorcerer....



Was originally Zig Zag The Grand Vizier...



Or was it the genie?....




Now try this!....




Like what you saw? Then check out the original!


I'm not here to pass judgement I just look at what's there.
It is in no way my intention to ''hurt'' anyone here I just find it fun to compare, hope you do to!

And there's more where that came from...




http://s284.photobucket.com/albums/ll30 ... nwhite.jpg

Revolting isn't it

Princess Yum Yum...Its as if the creators were very aware of the character's sex appeal and thus named her as such .

Getting back on topic, back when I first saw the movie I too noticed the similarities between Aladdin and Thief. Though, they just share similar concepts and themes, but both are handled differently.

Aladdin goes from street rat to Prince with the help of the Genie. The cobbler introduces himself to the princess without any change and thus works his way towards becoming a ruler by the end of the movie. Not to mention Aladdin was a thief, the Cobbler was a humble peasant that had a job. Personality wise, they are extremely different. Aladdin's smart and resourceful while Tack (that was the Cobler's name right?) was very quiet and shy.

Yum Yum and Jasmine are perhaps the most similar. Both are spunky princesses that yearn for something more out of life. However, this is a common theme in nearly all modern fairy tales, so to say that Jasmine is a carbon copy of Yum Yum is being silly and ignorant. Not to mention that Arabian princesses are always drawn as being attractive and sensually appealing.

Zig Zag and Jafar are also quite similar, but not by much. In Arabian stories the evil characters are sometimes drawn with crooked beards. Not to mention that an evil vizier was also one of the villains in the original Prince of Persia game. So in a way, viziers are quite common in these stories. Oh and Zig Zags owns Jafar in rhyming. Hands down.

The stories are also quite different. Aladdin's about how a street rat went from being poor to having everything he desired with the help of a magic lamp and defeats an evil vizier in the process. While Thief and the Cobbler deals with a dark army that is about to invade a Persian kingdom. While the heroes in Cobbler mirror those found in Aladdin and vice versa they are developed in different ways and encounter different challenges that lead to different conclusions.

So in a way, the Thief and the Cobbler/Aladdin similarities issue is a lot like the Antz/A bug's life or even the Madagascar/The Wild issue: Both are Persian stories with similar archetypes and story progression but are handled differently enough that no one can claim that one copied the other.

You're right, both are handled in a different way, still It seems like a bit of plagurism was indeed the case, at least in terms of visual style that is.

I like you're comparison to Antz/ A bug's life that's sorta similar I guess, although that's healthy competition.
This movie was released by Disney, Roy E. Disney to be exact.
In certain books you will find this issue mentioned, much like
Kimba the White Lion being reference for The Lion King



Come to see it, I see an early Horton in here too

I have the feeling this thread will slowly dive deep into the "Disney plagiarism" topic everyone loves to gossip about...Oh well!

Have you heard of the Atlantis rip off story, REINER? Atlantis was supposedly "inspired" by an old Gainax anime. The name escapes me, but both deal with the legend of Atlantis, both feature a geeky male lead and an exotic beauty that holds the key to Atlantis' survival and even some supporting characters that bear a strong resemblance.

Now that one is hard to deny because the similarities are far too strong for it to be a coincidence.

Nadia is what you are probably thinking of. Here is a link
Atlantis vs. Nadia
http://www.thesecretofbluewater.com/atlantis-i.htm

It goes back to nothing is original. Frankly, I think when Disney animators said they never heard of Kimba they were either lying or doing crack when Kimba came out and thus, don't remember it. Either way, being Kimba is almost as well known as Hello Kitty in Japan, and Kimba was shown on American TV when many of those animators were younger, I highly doubt they never heard of it. Maybe they took from it intentionally, maybe subconsciously, but I am sure they did use some of Kimba for Lion King.

Thief and the Cobbler, mostly character design it seems. Been a very long time since I watched Cobbler.

Atlantis, same thing with Nadia. Just too much to ignore.

I for one happen to both like Aladdin and The Thief and The Cobbler (Miramax and Recobbled Cut.)

I really don't know what to make out of this Nadia vs. Atlantis debate.

What I think is most baffling is that if the Disney artists deliberately 'stole' the premise and the ideas from Nadia, why would they make it so obvious? Wouldn't they know that like, a couple million people are going to make a cataclysmic fuss about it?

I think my reasoning is quite logical.

Yeah, but its a whole lot of coincidences. Like the bald headed black doctor....okay...how many of those do you think go on trips to Atlantis?

Like I said, maybe subconsciously it was done. If one of the writers saw it as a kid and forget they ever saw it and instead thought the ideas in his/her head were their own's, then tell the other writers and they all agree it sounds good. I'm not even saying it was done with 100% intention.

It's interesting, because Laputa, Castle in the Sky was also compared to Nadia, but not to the same degree as Atlantis. And of course, Miyazaki was actually involved in Nadia.

Siren wrote:Nadia is what you are probably thinking of. Here is a link
Atlantis vs. Nadia
http://www.thesecretofbluewater.com/atlantis-i.htm

It goes back to nothing is original. Frankly, I think when Disney animators said they never heard of Kimba they were either lying or doing crack when Kimba came out and thus, don't remember it. Either way, being Kimba is almost as well known as Hello Kitty in Japan, and Kimba was shown on American TV when many of those animators were younger, I highly doubt they never heard of it. Maybe they took from it intentionally, maybe subconsciously, but I am sure they did use some of Kimba for Lion King.

Thief and the Cobbler, mostly character design it seems. Been a very long time since I watched Cobbler.

Atlantis, same thing with Nadia. Just too much to ignore.

Was Kimba as popular as Transformers after it, and Pokemon/Digimon after that? I wouldn't know, I grew up with the pocket monsters.

Not sure, I read in a couple of news articles that Kimba was Japan's Mickey Mouse. So I have to say, he was pretty popular.

I BELIEVE ITS DISNEY'S WAY OF PAYING TRIBUTE TO A FILM THAT THEY KNOW WILL NEVER BE COMPLETED.SO THEY TOOK BITS OF IT AS INSPIRATION.BUT I DO HOPE DISNEY WILL RESTORE THE THIEF N THE COBBLER..ITS KINDA SLOW PACED BUT BEAUTIFUL TO LOOK AT.AN ARTISTIC MARVEL.

ANOTHER SIMILARITY TO NOTE..SIDEKICK BIRDS..THE VULTURE N IAGO.

AND I LOVE THE PRINCESS BATHING SONG.OF COURSE IVE ONLY SEEN THE RECOBBLED EDITION.I DUNNO HOW BAD THE MIRAMAX VERSION IS.

When I first the picture of the Princess (And then I knew that this film exits) I thought it's a Aladdin rip-off.
The guy who made Swan Princess made this? I have no idea if Disney riped off but I guess it's like Flushed Away\Ratatouille or Finding Nemo\Shark Tale then Antz\A Bug's Life,Lion King\Kimba or Madagascar\The Wild,but like akhenaten said-It could be a tribute.
I actually heard that Atlantis is a rip-off of Castle In The Sky (The story) and Nadia (The characters and areas).
About Simba\Kimba-Did anyone knew that one of the bonus features in the Lion King PE shows that Simba was supposed to be white? and the original name of Lion King was King Of The Jungle? I also heard that Simba's voice actor thought that "It's the Disney version of the lion cartoon he used to watch on TV".

ahahhahaha I LOVE the Theif and the Cobbler!!!!

Though Aladdin is my favorite Disney movie, one of my favorite movies in general...and it definitely deserves all the praise it gets...but when I first watched The Thief and the Cobbler like...a year ago...I was like "omg...I think Aladdin ripped some of this off..." It's just like really obvious for some reason. Aladdin is a better film by far, but The Thief makes that movie freaken...HILARIOUS! But yea, i noticed lots of Aladdin similarities...not to knock Aladdin, because it's a classic masterpiece all by itself for many other reasons, i do think some idea's might have been taken..a little heh.

You're right, both are handled in a different way, still It seems like a bit of plagurism was indeed the case, at least in terms of visual style that is.

It's widely acknowledged that the visual style of Aladdin was detirmined by the work of caricaturist Al Hirschfeld. Eric Goldberg, lead animator on the Genie, is a huge fan of Hirschfeld's work and personally pushed for that style for the movie. (He did so again in Fantasia 2000.)

steve wrote:

You're right, both are handled in a different way, still It seems like a bit of plagurism was indeed the case, at least in terms of visual style that is.

It's widely acknowledged that the visual style of Aladdin was detirmined by the work of caricaturist Al Hirschfeld. Eric Goldberg, lead animator on the Genie, is a huge fan of Hirschfeld's work and personally pushed for that style for the movie. (He did so again in Fantasia 2000.)

You're absolutely right, (as illustrated in pictures above), in fact Hercules had much to benifit from him as well! (check out hades, end post) however the fact remains that in spite of this
''inspiration source'' there are still too much similarities

REINIER wrote:You're absolutely right, (as illustrated in pictures above), in fact Hercules had much to benifit from him as well!

The look of Hercules was inspired by the art of British caricaturist Gerald Scarfe, not Hirschfeld. Scarfe was brought onto the movie and served as Production Designer.

Siren wrote:If one of the writers saw it as a kid and forget they ever saw it and instead thought the ideas in his/her head were their own's, then tell the other writers and they all agree it sounds good.

Nadia ran from 1989 to 1991. Tab Murphy, the main writer behind Atlantis, was hired in 1983 by Paramount Pictures to write for Eddie Murphy, so I doubt he saw it as a kid.

steve wrote:

REINIER wrote:You're absolutely right, (as illustrated in pictures above), in fact Hercules had much to benifit from him as well!

The look of Hercules was inspired by the art of British caricaturist Gerald Scarfe, not Hirschfeld. Scarfe was brought onto the movie and served as Production Designer.

True once more, however Hirschfeld's work is mentioned in the book

Hercules: The chaos of Creation as being reference material
on more than one occasion.

REINIER wrote:Hercules: The chaos of Creation as being reference material on more than one occasion.

I love that book.

steve wrote:

REINIER wrote:Hercules: The chaos of Creation as being reference material on more than one occasion.

I love that book.

Then you should definitely check out Fantasia 2000: visions of hope, it too is wonderfull