DVDizzy Forum

im doing A level media, and for my upcoming exam i have to research a topic of my choice (critical research exam), for this i have decided to look at how women are portrayed in disney animation (in particular snow white, ariel in the little mermaid, belle in beauty and the beast, aurora in sleeping beauty, with others such as cinderlla, pocahontas ect as mentions) i want to then compare this to shrek films to look at representations (as some of these characters are present in both and i want to look at fiona - as she is different from other female leads although there are quite a few similarties at the same time)

part of this research is asking people/getting views ect which is why im here

so any views you can offer would be grately appricented - both positive and negitive welcome

thank you

These topics probably could help too...

Representation of women in Disney films......please help! by MrBananaBeak, created November 27, 2007
Women: Disney vs. Anime by ice_white_tiger, created December 1, 2006

Positive or Negative Portrayal of Women in Animated Films? by snowbot, created April 13, 2004

Albert

Well, firstly Disney's animated films started all the way back in 1937, with Snow White, when women had less rights and were thought not to be equal to men or be able to do the same things as men. In 1989 came Ariel, who most people think was a big change from the past leading women, and she came in a time when women were more equal to and independent of men, and Disney increasingly tried to make women seem tougher and less domestic in every film since then.

But I would suggest you really look at the films and characters yourself. Question what the women do for themselves, if they do much at all, and compare each women to leading men in their films and the leading women and men in other films. For instance, Snow White is thought of as very passive. Things happen to her instead of her doing things for herself. But doesn't she try to make the dwarfs let her stay in the cottage? Is that enough for a girl these days? Is that a good thing to do, or should Snow White have been more forceful and not worked for them in exchange or should she have found shelter elsewhere or even built it herself? What is realistic?

Also look at what the women do. Are they mostly cooking and cleaning, domestic work? In the past, women were encouraged to only do things in the home like that. Look for women defending themselves, or fighting. Look for them helping themselves out of situations, trying to break free and stop the evil and harm coming to them or others. A biggie is "can the woman save herself?" I think in almost every Disney movie, there's a time when the leading lady needs someone to help her save herself. Can everyone save themselves all the time? Well, that would be nice...

And lastly, what are the women's goals, what does she want, and what does she do to get it? Goals like princes and marriage are often not liked by women of today because they worry girls will think men and love is all they need and is their only happiness. But what if the woman's goals are also to stop working for people, or to be part of a different world?

My favorite character on your list is Ariel, but out of all female Disney characters it would have to be Jasmine.

1 Snow White
2 Alice
3 Aurora
4 Cinderella
5 TinkerBell
6 Wendy
7 Slue Foot Sue
8 Katrina
9 Lady
10 Duchess
11 Perdita
12 Miss Bianca
13 Anita
14 Ariel
15 Belle
16 Jasmine

Hmm, I'm a little tired of hearing about this sort of question myself. It's usually about trying to say Disney paints a bad picture of women as inferior or helpless without a man, and all that stuff, when Disney has really just reflected the times, like most other studios. Not to mention the fact that their stories are often fairytales set in times when women were extremely treated as inferior. Sure, they often get their happy ending by ending up with some prince charming, but most movies end up with the lead getting the guy or girl. Deep down, that's just something most everybody wants. Besides that, women usually get more character development in the early stuff. How much time did they really spend developing the princes, seriously. You almost have to have the prince do a bit of rescuing in the end to give his presence any importance at all. And often the women were rather assertive, even Snow White, who came into a home and basically took over, being a true survivor after getting over her initial and very understandable fears. Yeah, she had her head in the clouds over some guy, but that was actually pretty realistic, just as Aladdin had his mind on Jasmine after meeting her. But people will always find ways to put a spin on everything.

I would think one of the most popular Disney girls to those who think the only way a woman should be represented is as an assertive, modern woman would be Kim Possible. As for me, when it comes to favorites, I am torn between Tink and Ariel. Though a few follow very closely, particularly Kim, Belle, Alice, Cinderella, and Eilonwy. Personally, I think if every Disney character starts acting like Xena, Warrior Princess, it's going to be unrealistic, repetitious, and, to many, unappealing. I don't think any two of Disney's girls are exactly alike, and usually the complaints come from those who lump them all together, which to me shows that those folks aren't watching these movies very closely and just have some sort of chip on their shoulder.

The thing to remember is that the character types seen in the female characters in Disney's fairy tale films didn't just fall to the earth in the Disney studio; they are based on sources.

Snow White is an idealised, baby-faced heroine in the spirit of Janet Gaynor, Mary Pickford or Shirly Temple. She is not weak; she is simply a force of pure good and incapable of any aggressive thought or action; she therefore needs the dwarfs and animals to protect her. Her innate goodness means that she can't understand or even recognise evil.

The Queen is a femme fatale villainess, and opposite to Snow White in every way - she is curvy, mature, cruel faced, while Snow White is a very young, innocent woman and is obviously not (sexually) mature. If the heroine had not been passive, in this instance, I think the film would have been weaker.

The heroine/villainess relationship isn't played to quite an extent in 'Cinderella' but it's definitely in 'Sleeping Beauty', with an even more weak heroine versus a big, dramatic, powerful villainess. There's also the fact that all three Walt-era princess films have an evil 'mother' as a villainess; though Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty also have good mothers, these characters are really no match for their evil counterparts.

I would advise having look at Robin Allan's 'Walt Disney and Europe', which details the artistic and literary sources the Disney artists used.

That was very interesting, thanks for revealing that, Magic Mirror. I'd say of course that kind of heroine/villainess opposite relationship is played less in Cinderella, because Cinderella is more assertive and strong and actually fights her stepmother. No, not a lot, but enough. In fact, Cinderella actually does something similar to the villainess. Making Bruno attack Lucifer is like Lady Tremaine making her daughters attack Cinderella. Cinderella and her stepmother are more alike than the opposite good and bad girls in the other films.

Anyway, this is about how the women are portrayed, and how it will affect girls watching the films, regardless of sources or reasons (unfortunately!).

I forgot, though, fairy_bean, there is some HUGE UNFAIRNESS in your project. Shrek is known to make fun of Disney, and Shrek came after Disney, after the times when Disney made their princesses reflect the times where women seen as less equal and strong to men. Shrek was made in today's time, where women are fighting to be seen a equal to and as capable as men. Of course Shrek is going to make their princesses seem stronger, fight more, and also make fun of Disney's own princesses! You may want to consider comparing Disney's women to other animated films that aren't trying to parody Disney.

yeh i no shrek is a spoof of disney, which is why i want to look at it - it is such a contrast and contain sleeping beauty ect in the thrid, but i want to look at how they are protrayed to be humous - is it becuase they are more "moden" or feisty. your views are welcome on this too

thank you all for your help so far, your are raising some very good and intresting points i cant wait to hear more

xxx

Oh, fairy_bean, now I see why you chose Shrek. You kind of wan to see how far we've coem with women, so you're comparing different types. Well, since you know what's behind these films, this is a fine project. You actually have a good idea thinking of Shrek to compare to Disney in this case.

Well, sorry I misunderstood you, you knew everything anyway. Good luck!

Fairy_bean, I checked out your link: http://www.newint.org/issue308/dolls.html , and I would like to talk about some parts of it.

Disney’s first animated feature, Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937), set a standard for full-length animation and established a pattern for later Disney heroines to follow. Snow White is young, virginal, pretty, sweet-natured and obedient. Domestic drudgery doesn’t faze her since she is sure that a handsome owning-class chap will, someday soon, come and save her.

Snow White did obey the Queen in the beginning, and the Huntsman who told her to run, and then the animals guide her, but then when she's cleaning she tells the animals what to do, then she does her best (though in a pleading way) to make the dwarfs take her in, and even though she made a deal to make food in return for shelter, she says they can't eat until they wash they're hands. It may be motherly, and they may be short, but they're still men and she has control over them. Does this still fit the idea that women only have control of children, not men, or is it control over men disguised as control over children? Of course, later they tell her not to let in strangers, and she says she will obey, but then she doesn't...and she gets poisoned. I guess that could say to girls "listen to men". Yeesh.

Meanwhile, when faced with danger she runs away on tiny high-heeled shoes and then falls in a weeping heap. She finds a shelter in a dusty and dishevelled cottage and immediately feels compelled to clean it from top to bottom (since the owners, a group of full-grown, if quite short, miners, obviously don’t have a ‘Mother’ to clean for them).

Snow White had to brave a scary forest she was never in, and she was running a lot but also holding on to things and not waiting for the huntsman to guide her through. As for the dwarfs, Snow White thought they really were children at the time, like orphans. However, when she finds out they're dwarfs she still treats them like children, or maybe it's the a wife-like thing to do. In a way she emasculates them, that's like taking away their manliness. Yay?

Snow White’s one adversary is her wicked and powerful stepmother, the Queen. Like most Disney crones, the Queen is eventually destroyed. Butnot before feeding her lovely step-daughter a poisoned apple that places her in a death-like coma. Snow White is lovingly waked by her housemates who place her on a bier. But she is awakened only when Prince Charming comes and plants one on her rosy lips. Back among the living Snow White rides away with her new boyfriend, with nary a second thought for her short friends.

Cinderella's fairy godmother and Aurora's fairy aunts are powerful old women who help them, some people might even say they save the heroines more than the princes.

It’s prototypical Disney. Young women are natural-born happy homemakers who lie in a state of suspended animation until a man gives them a life. Older women are the enemy, especially if they seek power. And the working class (hardworking, but dirty and uncivilized) are there to serve the rich and privileged, never questioning their subordinate position.

Snow White may seem like a happy homemaker, and she does clean the house happily. However, she has lots of animals helping her. Women were expected to do the work alone. If women had men or anyone else helping them in real life, that would be good. Also, she was cleaning in the hopes that it would convince the homeowners to share their home. Then again, in real life women got to live with the man she married but she took care of the home... Anyway, before this she sighed after doing all the work for the Queen. She wasn't happy doing work then. So... As for women lying in suspended animation until a man gives them life, uh, that's Snow White and Sleeping Beauty. All the other girls certainly perk up and act lively when a man loves them...but wouldn't anyone when they're in love?

Disney’s take on Hans Christian Andersen is the ‘same old, same old’. Except, for the first time, there is a new nymphet quality to the virginal heroine. Above her green tail Disney’s Ariel wears only a string bikini top made from a couple of sea shells. And as innocent, wide-eyed and flipper-tailed as she is, there is something distinctly sexy about her too. Her image may not be informed by feminism, but it has most certainly been informed by the eroticizing of the pubescent female, so common in Western advertising and popular culture.

Um, in almost every single depiction of mermaids, they wear shells or something like bikini tops.

Like Disney heroines before her, Ariel is looking for a romantic solution to the yearning in her heart. (Andersen’s mermaid looks for human love only as a means of achieving her true desire: an immortal soul. Disney’s mermaid sees a cute fella as her be-all and end-all.)

Aside from the prince, Ariel also wants the world she's always longed for, the human one. It's not a soul, but it's something for herself that's not a man. Cinderella also had an ambition seperate from romance, to not be ordered around, wear fancy clothes, basically get her old, happy, rich, noble life back (but all of the Walt Disney fairy tales have something to do with noble girls losing their nobility and then gaining it back with a prince).

Ursula gives Ariel a set of shapely legs, but takes her voice in trade. Hence, in The Little Mermaid, we are given a female protagonist who is literally silenced by her desperate need for male approval. ‘Shut up and be beautiful’, the movie seems to tell young girls. (Books like Reviving Ophelia have argued that this is a message pre-teen girls constantly get from their society. Why not from their cartoons?)

But won't little girls see that what happened to Ariel was bad? With the way those hands grabbed it out of her? Or what about how the prince didn't really know who she was until he heard her voice in her throat again? It's true girls will act as their favorite princesses and act out the bad things happening to them, and maybe they will think the bad things needs to happen in order for the good things too...which may be, well, bad. Yeesh!

Since The Little Mermaid is a Disney flick, Ariel gets her voice back and she gets the guy. But she is nevertheless forced to abandon completely her sea world (her family and friends) for the land-locked kingdom of her Prince. In the end, Ariel is a woman without a social support system, investing her entire life in a romance. Not a situation that I’ve ever found to have ‘happily ever after’ written all over it.

Yes, it's true the only one Ariel knows is Eric. Oh yea, and Grimsby...and Carlotta, who were very nice to her...and Max... Anyway, she wanted to be part of the human world. It would have been cool if she went off into that world on her own and made a new life for herself...but then there's no "social support system".

It worked with most critics. But, as far as I could tell, the most feminist thing about Disney’s Belle was that she liked to read. Like the eighteenth-century folk-tale’s Beauty, this Belle remains a self-sacrificing daughter of a silly and cowardly father (switching places with her papa when the Beast takes him prisoner). Still, Disney’s idea of an ‘independent’ woman didn’t bother me half as much as their concept of a male romantic hero.

Well, Belle also shows obvious disgust at the idea of marrying Gaston just to be a homemaker and babymaker. But...yea, she's really not too different from the other princesses. At least she seems more like she won't let herself be a "little wife" in her happily ever after. That's what they were trying to do (though staying with a man who was so violent towards her didn't really help...at least she ran away once).

Which brings up something: to be a princess is to have servants do everything for you, and then you get to help rule the kingdom and be involved in political matters. Disney may focus more on the pretty dresses and palaces than that, but it's still part of being a princess. So how are these girls ending up as "happy homemakers"? What makes it look like Disney wants girls to be happy homemakers? Because they don't show them not being homemakers after they get married? Maybe that's it.

cheers! this is really intresting, and its nice of you to let me know what ur views are, this will help me a great deal