Anastasia (1997)

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Post by bradhig »

There is a guy who wrote a book called "To Save Russia". Who believes he is the reincarnation of Nicholas the second and has met the reincarnation of Alexandra ,Olga, Tatiana ,Maria, but not Alexi or Anastasia.

I haven't read that one and don't have any interest in it. I don't believe that anyway. When I write my stories about the Romanov's I usually have the four grand duchesses survive and Alexi saometimes. Something is preventing me from killing them off.
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Post by bradhig »

Maybe I am not reincarnated. Maybe i just picked up some stray memories or something.
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Disney version of the Romanov's

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http://fav.me/d4d832d

Someone on Deviant art made the Romanov's replacing each member of the family with a Disney Character.
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Re: Anastasia - A Discussion of the Film

Post by blackcauldron85 »

I just watched Anastasia the other night (I was singing "In the Dark of the Night" in the kitchen and figured why not watch it!). While it's always been my favorite non-Disney animated film, and I watch it about once a year, I suddenly understood Rasputin more during this viewing. ...it's like a lightbulb went off. All my life, I didn't like the fact that Rasputin falls apart...it just always bothered me. But I finally *got it* that he's living in limbo, in Purgatory, basically, because he has unfinished business. I just never had realized that piece of the puzzle...

Thanks for all those links, Mooky!! The Cartoon Brew article has a link to the Scad Libraries Don Bluth page- one of the subpages is concept art for Anya's hair...it's funny, and I generally think this when watching to movie, but her hair (is awesome) is more "relatable," achievable than the average animated princesses' hair, IMO...but then she also wears her hair in that low ponytail, or down, and she has almost Ariel-like bangs. #jealous

On that same site, a lot of the Dimitri concept art reminds me of Jack in Newsies.
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Re: Anastasia - A Discussion of the Film

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Well, I've pretty much ranted about my opinion of Anastasia, so I know this is just repetition of mine. But here it goes; I do like Anastasia and I completely understand why people regard it being the best non-Disney knock off (since let's face it, guys, it is what it's known for). I do like the songs, animation, characters designs and voice actors. Anastasia/Anya herself is one of the sassiest and snarkiest heroines ever. Yet, what brings this film down, is that it simply is dramatically uneven. The third act becomes a tedious and sappy melodrama and seeing it again, it's other faults have been obvious. Though Rasputin has some moments of genuine menace, he's mostly a whiny manchild through the movie. Even for an animated feature there's more compelling and inventive ways to tell a story about a girl with amnesia. Otherwise I do find some of the comedy grating and juvenile, yet the wisecrack works pretty well.
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Re: Anastasia - A Discussion of the Film

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I just watched this film recently and want to write about it. I'll read what other people said here eventually.

I had been thinking of Anastasia lately, and then my grocery store had the DVD cheap for $5.99, so I thought I might as well buy it that cheap instead of wait to rent it who knows when. It's the DVD with Anastasia's "Once Upon a December" princess face close-up in front of a purple cover. One of the most boring, awful covers in the world. So I watch the film and it's just, well, magical. It's really, really good. I mean it starts out with the superb Angela Lansbury narrating and a magical music box, shots of a grand palace, an exuberant party, footsteps in an imperial dress and then the lovely Dowager Empress Marie shares a loving moment with a darling young Anastasia. The whole Rasputin thing is probably the worst part of the film, but since the film doesn't make any attempt to be historically accurate story-wise anyway, especially with Anastasia living in the first place, it's really not so bad. I have no idea if the Dowager Empress survived the assasination in real life, though, so could someone fill me in? The animation, though obviously rotoscoped, is actually really nice, they just should have executed it better. The songs are all good, but "Journey to the Past" and "Once Upon a December" are dynamite. I'm surprised "December" didn't also get nominated for best song with "Past". But the characters were all great, nothing annoying, and the story having Anastasia finally find familial love, romantic love, and choosing that over being a princess, was beautiful and touching. The film is better than even a good amount of classic Disney films. It's close to Disney's best. Now that Disney owns Fox, I wonder if they'll make a live-action version of the film using the musial to help, too. But Anastasia should never be a Disney Princess, to me, because she was never created by WDAS, just like Merida should never be one either.
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Re: Anastasia - A Discussion of the Film

Post by JeanGreyForever »

Disney Duster wrote:I just watched this film recently and want to write about it. I'll read what other people said here eventually.

I had been thinking of Anastasia lately, and then my grocery store had the DVD cheap for $5.99, so I thought I might as well buy it that cheap instead of wait to rent it who knows when. It's the DVD with Anastasia's "Once Upon a December" princess face close-up in front of a purple cover. One of the most boring, awful covers in the world. So I watch the film and it's just, well, magical. It's really, really good. I mean it starts out with the superb Angela Lansbury narrating and a magical music box, shots of a grand palace, an exuberant party, footsteps in an imperial dress and then the lovely Dowager Empress Marie shares a loving moment with a darling young Anastasia. The whole Rasputin thing is probably the worst part of the film, but since the film doesn't make any attempt to be historically accurate story-wise anyway, especially with Anastasia living in the first place, it's really not so bad. I have no idea if the Dowager Empress survived the assasination in real life, though, so could someone fill me in? The animation, though obviously rotoscoped, is actually really nice, they just should have executed it better. The songs are all good, but "Journey to the Past" and "Once Upon a December" are dynamite. I'm surprised "December" didn't also get nominated for best song with "Past". But the characters were all great, nothing annoying, and the story having Anastasia finally find familial love, romantic love, and choosing that over being a princess, was beautiful and touching. The film is better than even a good amount of classic Disney films. It's close to Disney's best. Now that Disney owns Fox, I wonder if they'll make a live-action version of the film using the musial to help, too. But Anastasia should never be a Disney Princess, to me, because she was never created by WDAS, just like Merida should never be one either.
Glad you finally watched Anastasia! I agree that the cover is really ugly. I liked the original DVD cover when the film came out, as well as the more Disney clipart cover of her in the yellow Dream Waltz dressing coming down the stairs. My Blu-Ray cover is the one of her in the imperial dress from the end with Dimitri in a suit as both stand on the staircase. My favorite cover has to be the European Blu-Ray one though.

The real Dowager Empress survived the assassination because I think she was abroad (Paris most likely) when it occurred. Since she married into the family and was really old, she wasn't a target. Many of the other Romanofs, not just the main royal family, were killed as well though.

I wouldn't mind Anya being a DP. Besides her being one of my favs, Merida is one and the DP line is so fractured anyway with no rules, so if Merida of all people can be one (and even Elena since she's a quasi DP with the way she's included in the commercials sometimes), I see no reason why Anya couldn't be one too. She certainly fits in better with the DP mythos more than Merida and the average person thinks she's one anyway.
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Re: Anastasia - A Discussion of the Film

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Yeah, the best cover is totally the European Blu-ray!

Thanks for the info on the Dowager Empress! It's nice she did survive.

We disagree about Anastasia being a Disney Princess, but hey, you have your reasons! It is funny so many people think she is one.
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Re: Anastasia - A Discussion of the Film

Post by bradhig »

I was at a mall a few days ago and a chorus from a nearby school was singing Christmas songs and they sung Once Upon a December. What does that have to do with Christmas? It's a song about a girl trying to remember who she is.
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Re: Anastasia - A Discussion of the Film

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It has the word "December" in the name. And it mentions horses through a silver storm. It's her remembering the parties during winter. It's a winter song.
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Re: Anastasia - A Discussion of the Film

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Disney Duster wrote:It has the word "December" in the name. And it mentions horses through a silver storm. It's her remembering the parties during winter. It's a winter song.
Yes, exactly what Disney Duster said. There are a lot of holiday movies and songs that aren't really Christmas related but they are shoe-horned in because of snow or some winter theme.
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Re: Anastasia (1997)

Post by JeanGreyForever »

Has anyone ever read the original Anastasia script? It's a pretty interesting read especially how different it is from the final movie in some ways. I'll post more about it soon.
https://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Anastasia.html
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Re: Anastasia (1997)

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I started reading the script. I will finish it later. I'm trying to watch a long movie, finish Peter Pan, and write my book and balance it all out these days! I will probably finish the movie, the script, and Peter Pan in that order. I don't know when I will finish my book. As always, it needs to be soon! lol
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Re: Anastasia (1997)

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Lol. The script is pretty long so I have some notes on that although my notes/summary are pretty long too lol.

The names were slightly different for some characters. The Empress is named Tatiana instead of Marie, her real life name. Tatiana was actually the name of Anastasia's second oldest sister. Dimitri's name was spelled as "Dmitri" here. Pooka, the puppy, is named Meetoo. This is because his bark sounds like "meetoo/retu" and this is a running gag throughout the film.

The prologue features more about young Anastasia not being the typical princess. We see a little of her mischievous nature and hear about her tendency to play pranks but all of this is prominent in this draft. She secretly teaches a servant how to read and the class differences are also more evident in this draft. The servants talk about how a change is coming and they can't wait until they no longer are mistreated by the royalty and nobility and don't have to wait on them anymore. Young Dimitri has more interaction with young Anastasia here. When Rasputin appears and curses the family, young Anastasia openly defies him and he promises to save her death for last. His motivations are also more explicit here because he reveals how the royal family's cousins nearly killed him (which they did do in real life) and how he survived all the assassination attempts and blames the Tsar and his immediate family. Another minor difference is that Vlad and Sophie are featured in the prologue which makes sense since they are supposed to be part of the Imperial court. Speaking of Sophie, she also has two sisters as minor characters, Xenia and Estelle. They have no part besides just being there.

The St. Petersburg scenes are constructed differently. We spend more time with Anya at the orphanage alongside the younger orphans, who look up to her as an older sister, and Phlegmenkof, who has a small role in the final film. In this version, an older Russian guy comes to the orphanage and wants a worker for his fish factory. He chooses Anya because he's creepily attracted to her so this prompts her to run away in the middle of the night to escape him. When she reaches St. Petersburg, she keeps running into him and hiding but luckily he's easy to identify because he perpetually smells like fish. Anya also runs into Pooka/Meetoo here after saving him from bigger dogs. He follows her around everywhere as a result but there isn't anything about him being the answer to the sign she keeps asking the universe for like in the final film.

There are also more extended scenes at St. Petersburg. In the final film, we only see one Anastasia actress that Dimitri and Vlad are auditioning but here, we see multiple "Anastasias" for comedic effect. There's also a running gag which is truncated in the final film of the old woman telling Anya where to find Dimitri but "you didn't hear it from me." In this draft, everyone she runs into keeps telling her the same thing over and over and she gets sick of it. She struggles more with finding exit papers to leave Russia and finding Dimitri unlike the final film. She even runs into Dimitri and Vlad at the theatre where they audition actresses to find an Anastasia but when they find out that she has no money, they reject her. That's when she follows them secretly to the abandoned palace where "Once Upon a December" plays. Another running gag is that because of Anya's hair, hat, and oversized peasant clothes, people keep thinking she is a boy, including Dimitri and Vlad.

Rasputin is a bit different in this film. He's not in Limbo but living in a wagon at a gypsy camp. Bartok flies to him to tell him about Anastasia being alive and we discover that Bartok can speak because Rasputin enchanted him. When Rasputin dies at the end of the film, Bartok loses this ability. Bartok is also more of a womanizer here. Rasputin has these creepy Russian nesting dolls based on the Romanov family with Anastasia's father as the biggest doll, her mother as the second biggest, and Anastasia herself is the smallest. Rasputin's demons/spirits from his reliquary can transform into weird animal-human hybrids who wear cloaks with hoods. After Anya gets on the ship, Rasputin actually drives around his wagon to keep up with her and casts his spell on her from some distant cliffs. After Anya is reunited with her grandmother, Rasputin even visits Anya's bedroom and tries to kill her there although Pooka's barking causes him to flee, but not before Anya sees him and freaks out because she remembers his face. Earlier in the film, after the ship incident, Rasputin realizes that Dimitri is constantly saving Anya, even as far back as in the prologue of the film, so he specifically targets him. He hypnotizes Dimitri at the end and tries to get him to kill Anya but she reminds him how much he loves her and kisses him to break Rasputin's hold on him. The overall climactic battle is more toned down and takes place at the Eiffel Tower instead of the bridge named after Anastasia's grandfather like in the final film. There's less magic in this scene too beyond Dimitri being hypnotized.

Anya has more PTSD in this film than in the final version. When she, Dimitri, and Vlad are getting on the train, she freezes up because she's reminded of the opening scene where she tries to get on the train with her grandmother. Anya also recognizes the ship the characters get on as once belonging to an old Russian noble before the Revolution. Unlike in the final film, you can tell the characters are impoverished and Vlad and Dimitri are scraping by to get stuff for Anya. They have to steal all her clothes including her dress and shoes from other people on the ship and they use cons to get money. Another major difference is that Anya and Vlad actually have screentime together here after she learns that he and Dimitri essentially used her (they shockingly enough share no scenes together after arriving at the Russian ballet). She's angry at him at first but gradually forgives him especially after learning that he too, like Dimitri, doesn't take the Empress' money. Vlad also announces that he is getting married to Sophie.

The songs were a little different in this version. There is no "A Rumor in St. Petersburg." The opening song is "Rulers of Russia" which is sung at the 300th Anniversary of Romanov rule at the beginning of the film. A dark reprise plays after Rasputin casts his curse and near the end of the film, there's a comical reprise as Anastasia is getting ready for her debut after finding her grandmother.

Anya's I Want song is "A Someplace and a Someone" and she sings the first half of it at the orphanage at night to the other orphans. After sneaking out of the orphanage and stealing one of the bikes there, the song resumes and becomes faster and more hopeful as she journeys to St. Petersburg. There's a reprise later sung by Dimitri in St. Petersburg but his is a comical reprise about needing to find the right girl for his scam.

"Once Upon a December" is the same as the final version of the film. It was one of the first songs written. The main difference is that in this version, Dimitri and Vlad are present to watch Anya dancing and they think she's some lunatic dancing by himself (I say himself because they think she's male).

Rasputin's villain song was called "The End of the Line."

"Learn to Do It" and its Waltz reprise weren't finalized but planned. Same for "Paris Holds the Key."

The final song is "Home is Where You Are," a love song between Anya and Dimitri. Its placement is pretty weird though because it's literally at the end of the film after Rasputin is dead and when Anya decides to elope with Dimitri. A pop version was planned for the end credits, so basically five seconds after the actual song would end.
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Re: Anastasia (1997)

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In order to read the script and write my thoughts at the same time, I have to wait till Tuesday to write about it. I'll be busy these next few days away from home.
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Re: Anastasia (1997)

Post by blackcauldron85 »

JeanGrey, thank you x 5000 for summarizing the script!!! I've had this thread open on my phone for days, but I've been busy at work and have a sick dog, so I've had no time!

This is my favorite non-Disney film, and the only thing that has bothered me is Rasputin. I've come to accept him, and I like him more than I used to, but I think him not being in Limbo would be better, more "believable." I want a Legacy Collection type album for the unused music!!! I'd like to see more of Anastasia and Dimitri as kids, and of Anya at the orphanage.
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Re: Anastasia (1997)

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Disney Duster wrote:In order to read the script and write my thoughts at the same time, I have to wait till Tuesday to write about it. I'll be busy these next few days away from home.
Looking forward to it! I know it's a long read.
blackcauldron85 wrote:JeanGrey, thank you x 5000 for summarizing the script!!! I've had this thread open on my phone for days, but I've been busy at work and have a sick dog, so I've had no time!

This is my favorite non-Disney film, and the only thing that has bothered me is Rasputin. I've come to accept him, and I like him more than I used to, but I think him not being in Limbo would be better, more "believable." I want a Legacy Collection type album for the unused music!!! I'd like to see more of Anastasia and Dimitri as kids, and of Anya at the orphanage.
You're welcome! I figured it was a very long script so it would be difficult for most people to read through it all.

This is my favorite non-Disney film too and I think it has the same quality as some of Disney's best movies. I've actually never had an issue with Rasputin. Tbh, I prefer the Limbo storyline over him hiding out in a gypsy camp all these years, because it totally makes you wonder why he let himself fade into obscurity. Especially since he talks about how he will rule Russia so if that was the case and he had the power to do so, why didn't he? It also makes him look less inept for leaving a Romanov alive all this time if he was trapped in Limbo, since that was one of my major issues with Hades and how as the Lord of the Dead, he should have realized that Hercules was still alive.

I'm not sure if those discarded songs were ever actually written. Going by the script, it seems like they had a general idea about where they wanted a song and what the song would be about, along with a preliminary title, but there are no lyrics or words for the songs. Just a brief description of what they should be. Learn to Do It, for example, is just mentioned as a possible Vlad song with no name. Once Upon a December was the first song written for the film so it's also the only one with all the lyrics in the actual script.
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Re: Anastasia (1997)

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I got to the part with Anya passing Sophie's test! I will finish the rest tomorrow!
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Re: Anastasia (1997)

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Ok, I finally read the whole thing! I wrote thoughts all while I read it, so here goes.

I like very much the idea of the photo album, though I prefer the way the film begins in the live world of the Romanovs right away. I love Anya giving Dimitri some food as well as more time spent with her and the Romanov’s before the curse. I love the song setting up the Romanov’s reign and how change will come, from the servant’s singing. I prefer the way Rasputin came in and talked about a curse in the film, and showing him selling his soul, though I can’t remember if there was stuff about him having murder attempted on him and he thinks it was from Nicholas, which I like in the script. I like Anya wearing boy’s hand me downs, and being so kind as to help her fellow orphans. I can’t believe the script said Comrade Serebreakov lecherously eyed the girls in a family film! I love the “I’m running to”, line. That’s clever and sentimental. It was funny to see the script blatantly say basically “here is Anya’s ‘I want’ song”. I forget how she found the dog in the final film, but the pack of dogs chasing him seems kind of out of nowhere, but then again I guess her saving someone less strong from others calls back to what she did at the orphanage. I had no idea that the Soviet Union didn’t let anyone travel. I prefer getting to know Vladimir and Dimitri and their plan and the whole situation with Anastasia in the song “A Rumor in St. Petersburg”. I like seeing the filmmaking process in not wanting to make acts too song heavy, and wanting to connect the leads emotionally. I loved the actresses for Anastasia. I loved the Stanislavski cameo and the actress who really is a man! I love how Anya literally comes under Dimitri’s nose and the “I heard it from everyone who said I didn’t hear it from them!” line. I liked Bartok trying to get with another bat. When Anya goes into the palace, it made me think maybe the film was better the way they did the former palace scenes, because it is only when Anya remembers that we see the full glory of the times of the Romanov’s for the first time. I like that in the final film, the first time Anya met Dimitri was in the palace. I liked how Dimitri used his cunning skills and Anya’s own words to get Anya to go to the Empress in the script. I liked that Bartok had a reason to be in the palace, to pick up chick bats. I prefer in the movie how the reliquary being broken just destroys Rasputin’s body or whatever. I think the “minions all coming out” thing being so terrible doesn’t make as much sense. Why can a few come out but not all of them? I kind of like that the minions are like demons on horseback, but I also like the final film version of them. I like Anya hitting Dimitri in the nose and all the funny lines in response. Good lines. Like, “By pulling my hair?!” and “I was out of dynamite!” and “I hate that in a woman.” But the later stuff with the minions being humanized and doing comic stuff is stupid. I really prefer the final film version of them after the stupidness of getting freaked out by an ugly woman of all things in this early script. I liked the “What are you doing?” “Trying…to..breathe…” lines, they’re funny. The part with Vladimir’s belly, and then his butt, on the train roof is really broad and out there, lol. I like Anya’s “What?!” when she discovers what she has to do, it’s funny the way I pictured it. And then Dimitri running into her adds to that. Icicles in a bun sounds so pretty. The “This section is not ledgable” part puzzles me, like where did they get this script and who wrote this version we are reading, lol. As I was reading, I could see the final film really grew and matured and just improved over this script. I loved how Meetoo got the heeled shoes and that Dimitri put on the shoes for Anya! The bolt of lightning showing Rasputin’s face sounds scary! The fact that Anya believes she had “something to do with the palace” and had “flashes” really diminishes the whole idea that her being the real Anastasia was a big surprise and reveal to them all, and I don’t like it. The idea of Rasputin on a wagon on a cliff overlooking the sea where the heroes’ boat is is really silly and stupid. Anya didn’t need to have a ridiculous nightmare before she had a good dream lead her off the ship. Bartok’s need to say he wasn’t gay for Dimitri felt a little homophobic but maybe I’m sensitive. I liked when Anya looked at the sign for Paris and said, “I’m almost there, I’m finally going to know…” I felt her yearning there. I loved reading the words, “Dimitri climbs out of the water carrying the soaked (and pissed) pugs”! I preferred the song and placement of Anya learning all the stuff to say to Sophie, like people’s names and such the way it was in the movie. I liked that Anya remembers giving an orange to Dimitri when she talks to Sophie. Was that how it happened in the film? I forget. By the way, reading this has made me want to watch the film again! I absolutely LOVED the idea that once Dimitri took Anya back to be a princess, he couldn’t be with her. Was that in the movie? I like that we get more of a glimpse of Rasputin having made the deal to have power and get revenge, but then be tortured by the minions for eternity. It was interesting to hear him say, “I’m in control now, but you’ll get me later.” I was kind of thinking Dimitri and Anya’s relationship in the film was more developed, and from what I remember I think it was, but I like that part of the reason Anya loves Dimitri is him giving her confidence as well as helping her find what she wants, her home. I really wanna know what happened in the missing page to know how Dimitri got the guards to let him talk to Tatiana. Did Sophie see him and let him in? And I wanna know why Anya was crying! The way Tatiana goes to Anya’s hotel room is way better in the film, like with the line, “You’re the best I’ve seen”, and the way they did it with Anya remembering…whatever she remembers, I forget, lol, in the final film before they do the music box and key was better. I just like depending more on memory than the key. Then it’s more about who Anya is than an object. I also like the “And others have come from Timbuktu” line in the movie and we don’t know if that was on the missing page. I like how Bartok cries, but it could be because he’s afraid of getting yelled at, lol! I liked the evil demonic cherubs, and it was interesting to see a scene with Rasputin and Anya before the big showdown, but I can’t believe Tatiana just dismissed what Anya saw like that! I really liked the way Anya said she wasn’t mad anymore at Vlad and Dimitri, and the way the Empress told Anya about how they didn’t take the money, and really all the dialogue in the script that showed how Anya may not want to be the princess. I also liked the elevator at the top of the Eiffel Tower idea. I liked the way Anya destroyed the reliquary, because I feel like she wouldn’t know that would kill him, but in the film it’s still way better. I liked that we get that a spell was on Bartok and then he becomes a normal bat. Anyway, all in all I really liked the script and would have enjoyed a movie like that, but thankfully it became an even better, sophisticated, classic film!

So then I read JeanGreyForever’s notes. It’s true, we saw more of what Anastasia was like as a child. I liked that we see more of Vlad and Dimitri’s ways to get what they needed to, well, get what they wanted or even needed! I didn’t notice we saw more of Vlad and Sophie in the palace before the fall. I don’t know if I like that better or not, because I kind of liked the reveal later on in the film. But I did prefer that in the script, we find out they will get married. Did you mean there are no scenes of Vlad and Anya at the ballet in the script, or the movie? And did Sophie really have sisters?

Did Rasputin really get nearly killed by the royal family's cousins, or that's how he was killed? And in real life did he really want to rule?
JeanGreyForever wrote:This is my favorite non-Disney film too and I think it has the same quality as some of Disney's best movies. I've actually never had an issue with Rasputin. Tbh, I prefer the Limbo storyline over him hiding out in a gypsy camp all these years, because it totally makes you wonder why he let himself fade into obscurity. Especially since he talks about how he will rule Russia so if that was the case and he had the power to do so, why didn't he? It also makes him look less inept for leaving a Romanov alive all this time if he was trapped in Limbo...
Except for this being my favorite non-Disney film, I so agree!

What do you guys mean by favorite non-Disney film? Non-Disney animated film, or any film, even live-action?!
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