DVDizzy Forum

The problem about those collecting the movies from the official canon, is that it will never completed.

So why not release collections from the different eras of Disney feature animation (like it will ever happen), together with information about each era and the progress within them and what makes them so special and so on?

They can be divided into three different eras:


1) The hand made era (for the lack of a better word). The cels were inked by hand, and the films are represented by the 1-16 first movies in the canon. A movie like Pinocchio will never be made again.

2) The copying era (also for the lack of a better word). 1-12 (17-28 in the offical canon). The drawings were copied onto the cels using xerography or the APT process. The result was a sketchy look and a special animation style. Other things that happened during this period was that Walt Disney himself died and Disney animation almost closed their doors for good.

3) The CAPS era. 1-16 (18-44 in the offical canon). No cels or cameras were used anymore, and the animation drawings were colored digitally. Digital effects became the rule, and deep canvas and other techniques were developed.

At least the two first eras represents the past, and Disney will never return to them. So new movies will never be added to the list.
The third era probably also belongs to the past. Even if Chicken Little and American Dog and others are computer animated, the Frog Princess will as we know be handdrawn animation. But CAPS will be replaced by new software, and it is not impossible that the artists will draw directly into the computer using a graphic tablet instead of scanning the papers, as this will be time and money saving, to mention some of the advantages. If that is the case, and also the style as well as the production methods will be different from seen in the CAPS era, this would mean that this era too is over for good (even if Curious George is not a Disney movie, it shows that this is a movie of today, based on the visual impression).

I don't know if it is just me, but having a collection that can be divided into these three periods, the first one represented with 16 movies, the other 12 and the last 16 movies again, would be just as fine as having a collection based on all the features made so far. And these collections it would at least be possible to complete.

I think this makes sense - and it can easily be implemented by any collector who agrees!

I don't know what you mean by saying that it will never be completed. ALL of the Disney animated features--every single one of them--have been issued on dvd. Some have been out of print for many years and some dvds are better than others, but they are all available to see. I think what you are saying is that you wish to have all the animated features in the same format; the same packaging or whatever. That would be a nice thing to have, I agree.

I would break down the eras to about 7, though. First, I would do a Classic Era Collection, which would include:

1. Snow White And The Seven Dwarfs
2. Pinocchio
3. Fantasia
4. Dumbo
5. Bambi

This represents, as best as can be discussed, the most "classic" era of Disney animation. Everything was new and untried, and daring. And even to this day, people seem to think back to these five films more fondly than anything that's come since.

This would be followed by the Wartime Collection, including:

6. Saludos Amigos
7. The Three Caballeros
8. Make Mine Music
9. Fun And Fancy Free
10. Melody Time

Here you can see what the necessities and cutbacks from a major world war did to filmmaking. The first two can almost be viewed as propaganda films, as they were intended as part of the Good Neighbor Policy. They only exist because the war cut off film distribution to Europe. The next 3 were hastily-made package films, which were somewhat easy and cheaper to make than whole features. There's not really any bad films in this collection--they're just not what Walt would have made if he'd had a choice.

Then there's the Post-War Collection, in which Disney tried to get back into classic fairy-tale animation:

11. The Adventures Of Ichabod And Mr. Toad
12. Cinderella
13. Alice In Wonderland
14. Peter Pan
15. Lady And The Tramp
16. Sleeping Beauty

This is a favorite era of baby boomers, as these films came out when they were kids. Some of the films here greatly influenced the shaping of Disneyland, which was built in 1955. (Ichabod/Toad is actually on the fence of being in the WWII set, but its animation style and its general sentiments seem far more in line with the films that came after, rather than the films that came before.)

Next we have, for lack of a better name, The Xerox Age: in which cost-cutting efforts let to the development of literally xeroxing the artwork onto the animation cels, thereby saving money by eliminating the job of the inkers. While there are some fine films in this era, most people simply do not like the way xeroxed animation looks.

17. 101 Dalmatians
18. The Sword In The Stone
19. The Jungle Book
20. The Aristocats
21. Robin Hood
22. The Many Adventures Of Winnie The Pooh
23. The Rescuers

The Post-Walt Age: By the 80s, Disney animators began experimenting with their form, and not asking themselves 'what Walt would do.' This led to some interesting films. By the end of this era, Disney had hit its stride again with the terrific songs and characters of the Little Mermaid, followed by some very arresting visuals for the Rescuers Down Under.

24. The Fox And The Hound
25. The Black Cauldron
26. The Great Mouse Detective
27. Oliver & Company
28. The Little Mermaid
29. The Rescuers Down Under

Classic Era II: Emboldened by the success of the Little Mermaid, Disney animation pulled out all the stops in trying to provide entertainment. For the most part, the public agreed, and it suddenly became chic again to see Disney animated films. Largely staying away from fairy tales and kids' subjects, Disney tried using more adult subject matter and themes, with mixed success. However, all throughout this era, the emphasis was on music, good music.

30. Beauty And The Beast
31. Aladdin
32. The Lion King
33. Pocahontas
34. The Hunchback Of Notre Dame
35. Hercules
36. Mulan
37. Tarzan

The Dark Ages: As time went by, Disney seemed to lose its stride again. This was the era in which it seemed that Disney could do no right, and many of these films did poorly at the box office:

38. Fantasia/2000
39. The Emperor's New Groove
40. Atlantis: The Lost Empire
41. Lilo And Stitch
42. Treasure Planet
43. Brother Bear
44. Home On The Range

CGI: Traditional cel animation had been snubbed due to the huge success of CGI films such as "Toy Story" and "Shrek." So Disney stopped doing cel animation and instead switched to CGI. So far, only one film in this format has been released, but many more are on the way.

45. Chicken Little

So those are the 7 (or eras I'd box the Disney movies into. Some movies on the cusp could go onto either list, but this is generally how I break down the films' eras in my head.

Owlzindabarn:

What I mean is that it will never be complered as there will always be made new movies. If you have bought Chicken Little, and have all the other films in the canon, then you collection is complete. But not permanently, only for the moment. When Meet the Robinsons is released, you will have to add this too. And then the next movie, and the next, and so on.

For those who wants a complete collection based on the animated features by Disney, this could be done by releasing them not as numbers in an ongoing canon, but as titles in three different eras. I know what you mean by dividing them even further, but if too many groups, one could almost just release them individually without numbering them or placing them in any category. And then we would still have the same phenomena; instead of a canon that never seems to end (not that it is anything negative about it), we would have small clusters of films that didn't seem to stop either.

The three eras I have divided them into differs from each others on some very important points, and all the titles withing each era have importent things in common when it comes to technology, time period, production, the visual look and improvements based on one or more of the major production techniques which defines each period. If one should start including facts such as financial success, flops, storiylines, critics opinions and so on, it will be too abstract. But that's just my opinion.

Too bad if many don't like the xeroxed movies, after all they have their own charm and their kind will never be made again, for good and worse.

Lars Vermundsberget:

Yes, but it would be a little special if Disney made it official in one way or another, as an alternative.

Rumpelstiltskin wrote:Lars Vermundsberget:

Yes, but it would be a little special if Disney made it official in one way or another, as an alternative.

Yes, they could do that, of course. But I see so many opinions about how Disney does and should market their "classics" that it doesn't really make that much difference to me. My approach: With the possible exception of the "Treasures", I see every single Disney release as a single release - then I "organize" them in my own collection the way I please.

One possible solution: Design and print your own "eras collection" covers.

On the other hand, one could see the 44 "traditionally animated classics" from Snow White to Home on the Range as one collection. In fact, I do just that... And as far as we can tell right now, that "collection" is and will stay complete...

As for dividing Disney animation history into three or seven eras: Both make sense, of course - it just depends on what question you try to answer by doing it.

OK, I have nothing to add to that, except for one thing;

"On the other hand, one could see the 44 "traditionally animated classics" from Snow White to Home on the Range as one collection. In fact, I do just that... And as far as we can tell right now, that "collection" is and will stay complete..."

It is correct that it is complete right now if excluding the CGI movies, but with the Frog Princess and probably others as well, new handdrawn movies will be made in the future. But I think the canon is something relative new created by Disney. If my memory is right, there was only soem years ago since Disney decided to include movies like Saludos Amigos into the canon. Still, I guess the definition is animated features with official theatrical releases and made by Walt Disney Feature Animation. But perhaps Academy Award Review of Walt Disney Cartoons should be included too then?

I love the "Classic Era II" so much! I guess I'm being a little modest because I was born in 89 (The year of The Little Mermaid ) making this the era in which I grew up in. I loved my childhood, I wish I could go back to that place now, it was so much fun, everything seemed so much more magical then. Going to the Cinema to see a new Disney film was the best, I remember coming out on a high after seeing each one (Why can't they make them like that anymore ). I personally think the 90s was Disney at it's best. I'm also fond of the Post-War years though (The 1950s Classics), like Cinderella, Alice in Wonderland, Peter Pan, Lady and The Tramp and Sleeping Beauty.

Rumpelstiltskin wrote:It is correct that it is complete right now if excluding the CGI movies, but with the Frog Princess and probably others as well, new handdrawn movies will be made in the future. But I think the canon is something relative new created by Disney. If my memory is right, there was only soem years ago since Disney decided to include movies like Saludos Amigos into the canon.

It seems to me now that a new "wave" of "traditionally animated" features would be a "new beginning". But we'll just wait and see...

As for the "canon" - using those numbers "aggressively" in the marketing of titles is a rather new phenomenon, I guess. But I think it can be established that the "canon" - including Saludos Amigos and everything - goes back at least 20 years.

Nick Bryant wrote:I wish I could go back to that place now, it was so much fun, everything seemed so much more magical then. Going to the Cinema to see a new Disney film was the best,

As a reaction to all those who are nostalgic about their _own_ childhood - I tend to think it's even better to see a really old Disney film than a new one (or one of those that were new in the 80s and 90s).

Lars Vermundsberget wrote:

Nick Bryant wrote:I wish I could go back to that place now, it was so much fun, everything seemed so much more magical then. Going to the Cinema to see a new Disney film was the best,

As a reaction to all those who are nostalgic about their _own_ childhood - I tend to think it's even better to see a really old Disney film than a new one (or one of those that were new in the 80s and 90s).

Oh no, don't get me wrong I love some of the really old classics too; like Walt's very early work.

I'm really confused... what about Song of the South?

Well, what about it?

SotS is first and foremost a live-action movie, but there are a few animated segments included as part of the story (more specifically the stories told by Uncle Remus), and they are good. I still think it's fair, though, that SotS is not usually counted as an animation title.

It's a tweener isn't it. I guess I was thinking it had enough animation in it that it might be considered on the animation side but then I haven't seen it since I was a kid loooooong ago.

Nick Bryant wrote:

Lars Vermundsberget wrote: As a reaction to all those who are nostalgic about their _own_ childhood - I tend to think it's even better to see a really old Disney film than a new one (or one of those that were new in the 80s and 90s).

Oh no, don't get me wrong I love some of the really old classics too; like Walt's very early work.

I think we're okay...

Okie Tigger wrote:It's a tweener isn't it. I guess I was thinking it had enough animation in it that it might be considered on the animation side but then I haven't seen it since I was a kid loooooong ago.

It's definitely on the "live action side". I won't be able to check for a long while, but I'd guess the whole movie is in the 80 minutes range, and the three animated pieces couldn't be much more than about 20 minutes of that. Someone else could find the exact numbers.

Lars Vermundsberget wrote:Someone else could find the exact numbers.

Total Runtime: 1:30:45

Animated Segment 1 ("Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah" and Running Away): 0:16:42 to 0:24:58
Runtime - 8 minutes, 16 seconds

Animated Segment 2a ("How Do You Do?" and Tar Baby part 1): 0:42:48 to 0:51:15
Animated Segment 2b (Tar Baby part 2): 0:51:53 to 0:55:53
Runtime - 13 minutes, 28 seconds

Animated Segmente 3 (Br'er Rabbit caught, "Ev'rybody's Got A Laughing Place", the Laughing Place): 1:11:24 to 1:16:11
Runtime - 4 minutes, 47 seconds

Live-Action/Animated Finale ("Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah" reprise): 1:28:42 to 1:30:45
Runtime - 2 minutes, 3 seconds

Approximate Animated Runtime: 28 minutes, 34 seconds
Approximate Live-Action Runtime: 62 minutes and 11 seconds

(Runtimes include the dissolves between live-action to animated/animated to live-action segments. They range from 2-3 seconds to a long dissolve at the end of 2a that lasts 15 seconds.)

Escapay

Ok, so if you take the WDFA cannon and divide it by eras or ages, you get something like this:

A) The Golden Age
1. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
2. Pinocchio
3. Fantasia
4. Dumbo
5. Bambi

B) The Anthology Age
6. Saludos Amigos
7. The Three Caballeros
8. Make Mine Music
9. Fun and Fancy Free
10. Melody Time
11. The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad

C) The Silver Age (or First Renaissance)
12. Cinderella
13. Alice in Wonderland
14. Peter Pan
15. Lady and the Tramp
16. Sleeping Beauty

D) The Bronze Age
17. 101 Dalmatians
18. The Sword in the Stone
19. The Jungle Book
20. The Aristocats
21. Robin Hood

E) The Iron Age
22. The Many Adventures of Winnie The Pooh
23. The Rescuers
24. The Fox and the Hound
25. The Black Cauldron
26. The Great Mouse Detective
27. Oliver and Company

E) The Renaissance (or Second Renaissance)
28. The Little Mermaid
29. The Rescuers Down Under
30. Beauty and the Beast
31. Aladdin
32. The Lion King
33. Pocahontas
34. The Hunchback of Notre Dame
35. Hercules
36. Mulan
37. Tarzan
38. Fantasia 2000

F) The Dark Age
39. Dinosaur
40. The Emperor's New Groove
41. Atlantis: The Lost Empire
42. Lilo and Stitch
43. Treasure Planet
44. Brother Bear
45. Home on the Range
46. Chicken Little
47. Meet The Robinsons
48. Bolt

G) The Rebirth Age (or Third Renaissance)
49. The Princess and The Frog
50. Tangled
51. Winnie The Pooh
52. Wreck It Ralph (Upcoming in 2012)
53. King of the Elves (Upcoming in 2013)

Anyone else agree? How would you divide up the cannon?
Do you have the complete cannon on video/dvd/blue ray?

I don't think Fantasia 2000 belongs in The Renaissance.

I think it's too soon to call the Rebirth Age the Third Renaissance. Although some of the films that have been released are good and have decent box office numbers, none of them have yet to become huge blockbusters with a huge hold on the public conscious. I would call this more the Redemption Age, an age that indicates that Disney is trying to redeem itself but still with flaws.

First of all, Welcome to the boards Angeldude98!!!!!!

I think I agree with some of your groupings, but I usually don't think of them being grouped into so many different ages (and I also use a few different names). Here's how I kinda think of them.

The Golden Age - I think this is universally known as this lol
Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
Pinocchio
Fantasia
Dumbo
Bambi

The WWII Years - I basically label it this way because it's what was going on at the time. If it weren't for the war, I think it may have been possible that there would have been no break between The Golden Age and Renaissance. There were a lot of great projects in the works, and these films were sorta pieced together with what had been completed towards feature length films. They give great hints to what could have been during this era.
Saludos Amigos
The Three Caballeros
Make Mine Music
Fun & Fancy Free
Melody Time
The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad

The Renaissance - This era is what saved the company and ultimately lead to the company becoming what it is today. The parks would have never been built if it weren't for the success of this "age".
Cinderella
Alice in Wonderland
Peter Pan
Lady and the Tramp
Sleeping Beauty
101 Dalmatians
The Sword in the Stone
The Jungle Book
The Aristocats

The Dark Ages - This is Post-Walt, and reflects the loss of his guidance.
Robin Hood
The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh
The Rescuers
The Fox and the Hound
The Black Cauldron
The Great Mouse Detective
Oliver & Co.


The Second Renaissance - The Birth of the modern animated musical that saved WDAS from closing, and shaped most of our childhoods.
The Little Mermaid
The Rescuers Down Under (I know this isn't a musical, but it's kinda akwardly in there lol)
Beauty and the Beast
Aladdin
The Lion King
Pocahontas
The Hunchback of Notre Dame
Hercules
Mulan
Tarzan
Fantasia 2000 (Some may disagree that this is here, but as a film dedicated to the art of music and animation it fits best with these other films.)

The Depression - after a decrease in ticket sales, Disney starts trying new things that don't exactly go anywhere aside from a few exceptions. It also almost brought on the end of hand drawn animation at the studio forever!
Dinosaur
The Emperor's New Groove
Atlantis: The Lost Empire
Lilo & Stitch (the best performing film of the age)
Treasure Planet
Brother Bear
Home on the Range
Chicken Little

The Great Redemption - Thanks to toonsapie for the name! I consider this a time when the company legitimately seemed to take notice and make better attempts to make better films on a full scale. I agree that we haven't gotten to the point of a new Renaissance, but each film is demonstrating considerable strides towards one.
Meet the Robinsons
Bolt
The Princess and the Frog
Tangled
Winnie the Pooh


Also, since it was asked. I own all of the animated classics from Snow White to Bolt on dvd, then I permanently switched to Blu-ray so I have Princess and the Frog and Tangled on Blu. In short, I have them all on either dvd, blu, or both.[/b]