DVDizzy Forum

Hey, guys! I wanted to know everyone's thoughts on this year's Oscar race. According to Academy rules, 15 animated films must be released in order to get five nominations. If less, than it's three. According to cartoonresearch, there will only be 13, so we'll have to stick with 3 slots. It's a done deal that Finding Nemo will be nominated, but what other two will fill the slots? If Brother Bear is a modest hit, I think it will slide in. However, the third slot is a bit tricky. Sinbad: Legend of the SEven Seas bombed and Rugrats Go Wild, The Jungle Book 2, and Piglet's Big Movie recieved mixed reviews. I bet they'll either nominate the anime flick Millenium Actress (if you haven't heard of it, don't worry, it's currently only on 6 theaters) or a French film by the name of Triplets of Bellville (released in October). Both have been getting rave reviews and that have even surpassed Finding Nemo (gasp!). At this rate, Brother Bear might also loose its slot to the art house flicks. Any thoughts?

I haven't seen Millenniun Actress yet, but my vote is for that film. It seem to be something bigger than life!

I understand MA is similar in plot to Perfect Blue, another Anime film. Well worth seeing if you get the chance.

Well, I think its likely that:

NOMINEES:
Brother Bear (a suitable choice, plus it's being released closer to Oscar time)
Millenium Actress (very good reviews, plus, a better film than the other animated crap this year)
Finding Nemo (Obviously)

WINNER: Finding Nemo (It's the highest-grossing animated film of all time - guaranteed to win)

My predictions:

Finding Nemo
Brother Bear
Millenium Actress*WINNER*

Sinbad,Rugrats 3,Piglet,and JB2 were all good.

My bet will be on Finding Nemo, Sinbad, and Brother Bear, with Milennium Actress being considered but not nominated. Of course it's really of no conciquence because everyone knows it's a shoe-in for Nemo.

Jake Lipson wrote:My bet will be on Finding Nemo, Sinbad, and Brother Bear, with Milennium Actress being considered but not nominated. Of course it's really of no conciquence because everyone knows it's a shoe-in for Nemo.

Why is it? You haven't even seen Brother Bear yet! For all you know it could knock your socks-off. And box-office takings (should) mean nothing to the Academy. (We'll ignore *cough*Shrek*cough* winning over Monsters, Inc).

Personally I think MA could be a surprise winner (much as Spirited Away was a surprise winner - to me anyway, it's not often the Academy award overseas films with non-English language specific awards. God how I wish Amelie won best picture last year as it deserved too, but of course it wasn't even nominated) last year. From it's description MA appears to use most of the artistic conventions of live-action filmmaking that the board admires so much; a complex, open ended script with a degree of ambiguity, stylistic direction, bleeding of fantasy into reality etc - only it's animated. Such a film will probably be more familiar to the board members, and therefore gain their vote.

It all depends on what the Academy is looking for in an animated film. Are they looking for films which meet their criteria for live-action films? If not, is that right? Should Animation have different criteria than live-action films? It's a difficult question isn't it? Are they simply thinking that animation is only for children and are looking for more kiddie friendly films? In which case I expect Piglet's Big Movie to be one of the films nominated (although I would never expect it to win in a million years).

Traditionally the Oscars have neglected comic talent. Most often the Best Picture awards and various Best Actor/Actress awards go to strong dramatic roles. True, there are exceptions but drama seems to excite them the most. It's a shame we have an Animated Feature category as it means no voice artist will ever be nominated for best Actor/Actress now, when as we all know, many voice artists to stunning performances.

Nothing can be taken for granted, especially when what is likely to be one of the main contenders hasn't even been released yet. Personally I thought Monsters, Inc. was a shoe-in a couple of years ago. I never even entertained the idea of the Academy voting for a film as shallow as Shrek. These upsets happen.

Update
I've just re-read my post and I'm perhaps being a little hard. However I don't agree with having a seperate Animated film category in the first place, I think it belittles the art-form. Why not have best Drama, Best Comedy and Best Musical? Or why not Best Childrens film? Splitting any film into a category of it's own is wrong in my opinion. And that means that I don't see why a documentary film could win Best Picture. Why not if it's the best picture of the year. I don't see why animated films need to be seperated - while I'll admit that they do contain different skills and talents to normal films the overall viewing experience should be the same. And Best Pictuture is supposed to be the film with the most complete viewing experience. Anyway you could probably pick that up in [some of] my post.

Rant Over. I was starting to foam at the mouth a bit towards the end of that last paragraph!

I think it will take a rather large miracle for Nemo NOT to win. Shrek had the same kind of situation, opening in May for a generally lackluster year for film - it was a bright spot, and had all summer to gain money and receive praise. It was the frontrunner for the award, and it would take an animated movie better than it to beat it out for the Oscar. Tough to imagine, with all the universal praise and acclaim it got. Only thing is...in November, there was a better animated movie that came out. Better in every way, except in 'subtle penis jokes' and 'making fun of the formula you're following.' The other thing is that same November, Shrek became the top-selling DVD and every one had seen it...again and again, and loved it. And it beat the better movie.

Even if Brother Bear is better-received than Nemo (and that seems like a long shot, even having seen very little of BB from commercials, and promo previews)...Nemo will have the advantage of being firmly implanted in everyone's memory as THE movie of the summer...and come November, the top-selling DVD of all-time.

Yeah, "Best Animated Feature" is a degrading category. But it's also disappointing that things like "The Little Mermaid", "The Lion King", and "Toy Story" didn't get the Best Picture nominations they undoubtedly deserved.

I have to digress. I think the Animated Film Catergory is needed. It was created due to the growing influence animated films are having on the industry. The reason why it wasn't created during the resurgence years of animation is because there were not enough animated films to merit an award. Plus, if it weren't for this category, many animated film would never an Oscar. Look at all the animated films that have one: Oh, my gosh! What a surprise! They're almost all for achievemnet in music! Do we really want our beloved art form to be honored soley in the music categories? No. If this category had never been created, none of the five animated films from last year would have been nominated. While I would never say animated films are lesser than live-action films, you have to admit, they are two seperate entities. In case you didn't know, Entertainmnet Weekly says Finding Nemo is actually a contender for The Best Picture Award this year.

Yeah, I'm definitely not a fan of the "animation apartheid" thing that the Academy has going on, but at least animation is included somehow. Maybe something like a "Best in Show" approach would work - where they pick the best films of the different genres, then pick the general winner out of all of them. *shrug* Just a thought...

That said, I think the artsy films will have much more sway for the supposed 3 slots this year than people think. Finding Nemo will obviously be one, but I wouldn't be surprised if the other 2 were taken up by The Triplets of Belleville and Millennium Actress. I'd say Triplets is a pretty sure thing for a nom - I've heard way more rave about it than Actress. Plus ToB'll be getting a wider release than the piddly 6 theatres the MA came out in, just to qualify it for an Oscar before its October 28th dvd release.
I'd definitely love to see both, but of the 2, I'm rooting more for Triplets than Actress, kinda 'cause of animated politics. Just as a lot of DreamWorks films have suspiciously mirrored Disney works, DreamWorks is now starting up this new "Go Fish" distribution unit to show smaller independent stuff, with a focus on anime in particular. Don't tell me this is a coincidence after Disney-distributed Spirited Away won the Oscar last year. Yeesh... I swear Katzenberg and his DW cronies are absolutely shameless... -_-

But I digress. My guess is it'll be either Nemo, Triplets, and Actress, or Nemo, Triplets, and Brother Bear, with a leaning towards the former.

2099net wrote:I understand MA is similar in plot to Perfect Blue, another Anime film. Well worth seeing if you get the chance.

I really enjoyed Perfect Blue, actually. Do you know if MA is by the same people?

Paka wrote:Yeah, I'm definitely not a fan of the "animation apartheid" thing that the Academy has going on, but at least animation is included somehow. Maybe something like a "Best in Show" approach would work - where they pick the best films of the different genres, then pick the general winner out of all of them. *shrug* Just a thought...

I've always hated that too. It is the same with 'best foreign film'. The last few years have been a bit kinder to 'foreign' (i.e. non-US) films, with several making it into the top 5, and doing quite well (Life is Beautiful being the obvious example). The only time - as we all know - that an animated film made into into the Best Picture slot was Beauty and the Beast. That saddens me (not that it made it there, but it was the only one to do so).

But yeah, at least there is a category that recognises animation.

For my money anyways, I'm sure at least Nemo and Brother Bear will be nominated. And I agree with the comments here: it would be very hard for Nemo not to win. I don't think BB's commercial success will be a factor - after all, wasn't Treasure Planet nominated last year?

so would Looney tunes:back in action count? I'm not sure since It's a live action/Cartoon mix *scratches head*

Yes it would, as Stuart Little II counted last year.

Another reason that I feel the Animated Movie category is a joke - why include Stuart Little II, but not SFX heavy films like Attack of the Clones?

I understand all of you who are saying that this category is a joke or a n insult to animation, but I think it was because of BATB being such a great film and losing Best Picture to Silence of the Lambs, that the Academy said, hey, if we had a category specifically for Animated movies, than great movies like BATB would not have to go away awardless. I don't know what I'm saying...

Did Aladdin win an Oscar for best Animated Picture?

Oh, and I don't think Stuart Little II should have been included in that category...

It would be nice if Brother Bear won, I hope it is really good. I believe it is suppose to be an epic dramam, so maybe the Academy will favor it for that reason.

2099net wrote:Yes it would, as Stuart Little II counted last year.

Another reason that I feel the Animated Movie category is a joke - why include Stuart Little II, but not SFX heavy films like Attack of the Clones?

The SW prequels ARE cartoons, aren't they? When you think about it, they're more animation heavy than Roger Rabbit.

Well, the line between animation and special effects has been clearly been blurred. (Although, there were many miniature/model shots in the prequels that most people aren't even aware of, thinking it was all just CG!)

Traditionally, in the past, the reason why animated films didn't receive recognition was due to the fact that the Academy is made up of a lot of actors. They saw animation as competition to what they do, so they weren't very eager to recognize it except for 'special awards' like what Snow White got. At least by putting it into its own category, these films can get some sort of recognition.

Maerj wrote:(Although, there were many miniature/model shots in the prequels that most people aren't even aware of, thinking it was all just CG!)

Amen to that. I thought Coruscant was completely computer generated, but it was actually mostly models. Great FX work there.

Prince Eric wrote:I have to digress. I think the Animated Film Catergory is needed. It was created due to the growing influence animated films are having on the industry. The reason why it wasn't created during the resurgence years of animation is because there were not enough animated films to merit an award. Plus, if it weren't for this category, many animated film would never an Oscar.

Perhaps because many animated films don't deserve Oscars? Of course, given some of the bilge that has won Best Picture in recent years, that could be taken as a compliment.

Prince Eric wrote:No. If this category had never been created, none of the five animated films from last year would have been nominated. While I would never say animated films are lesser than live-action films, you have to admit, they are two seperate entities. In case you didn't know, Entertainmnet Weekly says Finding Nemo is actually a contender for The Best Picture Award this year.

I don't know. I think that there is a chance Spirited Away would have been nominated. Personally I loved The Wild Thornberrys Movie but do you really think it was worthy of being nominated for Best Picture? Besides, your last comment about Finding Nemo being a contender for Best Picture sort of negates your argument.

Maerj wrote:Traditionally, in the past, the reason why animated films didn't receive recognition was due to the fact that the Academy is made up of a lot of actors. They saw animation as competition to what they do, so they weren't very eager to recognize it except for 'special awards' like what Snow White got. At least by putting it into its own category, these films can get some sort of recognition.

The problems I have with the Best Animated Picture are:

1) There's never enough films released to make the award meaningful. What's the triumph or winning an award with 3-5 nominees from 10-20 films?

2) It encourages the Academy to judge an animated film on different merits to other films. What are the academy looking for in an animated film? A tricky question, especially as stylistically there's much more possibilities for an animated film over a live-action film. Arguing animated films are different from live-action films doesn't really hold up, when animated films are just as different from other animated film. Waking Life is as different from Chicken Run as Chicken Run is from Grave of the Fireflies.

Just as many live-action films are totally different. How can anyone compare films as varied and stylistically different as Moulin Rouge!, Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, Gosford Park, In the Bedroom and A Beautiful Mind and definitively say one is better than the others?

3) It will not make the majority of Award watchers's appreciate or recognise animation more. In fact it will do the reverse and make them think of animated films as lesser films compared to live-action. Only suitable for an special award - just like the children get to sit on the 'special' table at a wedding reception.

Pointing out that an animated film hasn't won and Oscar before, and only one has been nominated in the past doesn't really hold water. It was nominated and it didn't win. How many "children's" films have been nominated for an Oscar? Very few. How many have won (was Mary Poppins - a film which could possibly be considered Animation under Academy rules, so maybe you could argue an Animated film has won an Oscar after all - the last children's film to win and Oscar?) Does that mean we should have a seperate award for Best Children's film too? And Comedies never traditionally do well as Oscar night. How about a Best Comedy Picture award too?

Best Picture is best picture. The whole over all experience. And it shouldn't matter if the picture is live-action, performed by puppets, totally by animals, narrated over a blank screen (like Derek Jarman's highly acclaimed Blue) or animated. All that matters is how it connects with the audience. And if any of the Academy board members think otherwise, then maybe, just maybe, they're not really qualified to judge the Best Picture award.

2099net wrote:2) It encourages the Academy to judge an animated film on different merits to other films. What are the academy looking for in an animated film? A tricky question, especially as stylistically there's much more possibilities for an animated film over a live-action film. Arguing animated films are different from live-action films doesn't really hold up, when animated films are just as different from other animated film. Waking Life is as different from Chicken Run as Chicken Run is from Grave of the Fireflies.

I'd have to say that the Acadamy has always viewed Animated films on different merits than live-action films. That's exactly why there's only been one Animated Film nominated for Best Picture. This new catagory is only an outward display of the Acadamy's view for years.

2099net wrote:Best Picture is best picture. The whole over all experience. And it shouldn't matter if the picture is live-action, performed by puppets, totally by animals, narrated over a blank screen (like Derek Jarman's highly acclaimed Blue) or animated. All that matters is how it connects with the audience. And if any of the Academy board members think otherwise, then maybe, just maybe, they're not really qualified to judge the Best Picture award.

I'm in wholehearted agreement. Unfortunately, the Acadamy is full of a bunch of bias old farts who make their decisions not based on quality, but politics. That's exactly why I don't give a crap about Oscar winners anymore.

I personally think a sci-fi/fantisy category should be added that way, movies like LOTR would get thr award reckognition that they deserve. To say something should be a certain way, to quote 2099net:

Best Picture is best picture. The whole over all experience. And it shouldn't matter if the picture is live-action, performed by puppets, totally by animals, narrated over a blank screen (like Derek Jarman's highly acclaimed Blue) or animated. All that matters is how it connects with the audience. And if any of the Academy board members think otherwise, then maybe, just maybe, they're not really qualified to judge the Best Picture award.

... while it mat be right, does not make it fact, so if it should be that way, but isn't then I think things like giving best Animated feature, or my idea of best sci-fi/fantasy, film are neccessary, otherwise those movies that do deserve the award will never get it.