DVDizzy Forum

TsWade2, takeyourself off autopilot please. Its beyond annoying reading that same post of yours thread after thread, page after page. Grow up.

DisneyAnimation88 wrote:

TsWade2 wrote:John Lasseter is a coward! I want him fired!

He won't be.

TsWade2 wrote:He better shape up after the next six upcoming CGI films or there will be serious consequences.

Will there?

Come on! He's a big jerk for not doing anymore of hand drawn animation. If Princess and the Frog should of been a box office success, none of this would of happened.

TsWade2 wrote:Come on! He's a big jerk for not doing anymore of hand drawn animation. If Princess and the Frog should of been a box office success, none of this would of happen.

On the first point I disagree. The second point doesn't make make a lot of sense to me but I think that's down to the way its been worded. Either way I really enjoyed Princess and the Frog, if it didn't do what Disney expected it to in terms of box-office receipts then that's disappointing but there's nothing that can be done about it now. I'm looking forward to the upcoming slate of films from WDAS too much to want to keep looking back and complaining about things that can't be changed.

It really aggravates me when people nitpick TP&tF for being a loose retelling and yet they praise films like The Little Mermaid, Cinderella, Tangled and even Mary Poppins when the movies are loosely based on their source material as well.

I hate to say it, but you guys are hypocrites.

And by the way, Mary Poppins is (technically) based loosely on PL Travers's books. While the title was stern in the film, her book counterpart did tend to be a little bitchy. I should know, I read the first book.

Forgive my ignorance if I haven't thoroughly researched this, but if the Paperman technique is basically the merging of 2D and CG, wouldn't that mean that A) movies would take a longer time to be produced because of the two different mediums that have to be coordinated, and B) that production costs would increase significantly, thereby making a feature in this style more expensive to make?

After all, the higher movie's budget is, the less likely it is to make a decent profit. Seems slightly counter-intuitive.

DC Fan wrote:Yes, Sleeping Beauty, Cinderella and Pocahontas have faults in them.

But still, they were better crafted in one way or another:

Sleeping Beauty had the medieval tapestry art going for it while Cinderella used much more commercial songs so that Disney could benefit from them.

I actually think Disney's songs written within the studio were better than the more commercial Cinderella songs. But I also believe The Princess and the Frog has more faults than Sleeping Beauty or Cinderella.

DisneyJedi wrote:It really aggravates me when people nitpick TP&tF for being a loose retelling and yet they praise films like The Little Mermaid, Cinderella, Tangled and even Mary Poppins when the movies are loosely based on their source material as well.

How do you think Cinderella was so loosely adapted?

Warm Regards wrote:Forgive my ignorance if I haven't thoroughly researched this, but if the Paperman technique is basically the merging of 2D and CG, wouldn't that mean that A) movies would take a longer time to be produced because of the two different mediums that have to be coordinated, and B) that production costs would increase significantly, thereby making a feature in this style more expensive to make?

I think it's possible to make one a reasonable budget. If they were willing to put the money for the technique up for a short (which outside of iTunes sales, those don't tend to generate a lot of money), I don't see why they can't make a good looking feature film in that style, for about $100 million or so.

I also think statements like "The Princess and the Frog is weak" all more opinion-based, rather than fact. I thought it was a fantastic film that still holds up with repeated viewings. I love all of the characters, think the songs are terrific (though I am a Randy Newman fan, it should be noted) and thought the animation was strong as was the story. Cinderella is pretty great, even if I find Cindy and Prince Charming to be dull characters. While Sleeping Beauty to me makes up for its weak story with stunning animation, the fairies and Maleficent. Pocahontas just bores me. See? I can apply my opinion to these films, too, but I'm not going to state them as cold-hard facts. Personally, I find that the reasoning a film was poorly received is why it didn't do better is not a good excuse, since bad films have made oodles of money. And The Princess and the Frog got very positive reviews, so it was a rather well-liked film by many critics in addition to the people who did see it.

Also, it should be noted that Sleeping Beauty was a rather expensive film that did not make its money back on its original 1959 release, thus leading to Disney having to downsize and was one of the main reasons they resorted to Xerox over the next couple of decades.

Then, why is Steve Huelett is always giving us bad news that hand drawn is not coming back? We're living in a cruel and greedy america. There's no hope for hand drawn. And why does John Lasseter think those CGI movies are hand drawn? Their not hand drawn, their CGI! They may have hand drawn feel to it, but their CGI! How can he compare Tangled, Wreck it Ralph, Frozen, and et cetera as hand drawn that their CGI anyway? He just got confronted by that insidemovies.com reporter, but John Lasseter refused to admit it. If he's the member of the Disney company and just receive the Disney Legends Award, then why can't he do another hand drawn animation? I'm sorry, but this doesn't make any sense.

Disney Duster wrote:

DisneyJedi wrote:It really aggravates me when people nitpick TP&tF for being a loose retelling and yet they praise films like The Little Mermaid, Cinderella, Tangled and even Mary Poppins when the movies are loosely based on their source material as well.

How do you think Cinderella was so loosely adapted?

Well, to some degree, the Disney version is based most on the Charles Perrault version. In the original story, Cinderella sleeps in a col and barren room next to the fireplace. Each morning, shed wake up covered in cinders, hence her name, given to her by her stepsisters. But in the Disney movie, her room is in the tower of the house.

Her father was also alive in the original tale, but was controlled by the stepmother while he pretty much died when Cindy was young in the film.

... I can't say much else as to differences between the Perrault tale (which the Disney film was based on) and the movie.

Anyways, estefan, remember how you mentioned that hand-drawn animation would most likely make a comeback someday? Musicals weren't the only film to make a big comeback as of late. People assumed stop-motion animation was a thing of the past, but by 2009, we got Coraline and The Fantastic Mr. Fox. Three years later, we got three- Count them, THREE- films in said medium, Pirates! Band of Misfits, Paranorman and Frankenweenie. To add to that, they all got nominated for the Bst Animated Film Oscar. That's gotta say something.

So maybe you're right, Estefan. Maybe hand-drawn feature films WILL make a comeback. Probably not next year, but I'm praying it happens soon.

Well, the reason I'm optimistic about hand-drawn animation coming back is I remember my attitude when Home on the Range was announced as the last one. I thought that, indeed, Disney was not going to make more hand-drawn films and they would be making computer-animated films forever. A couple of years later, they announced the production of more of them. That's why I'm not even close to throwing in the towel, like a lot of people on here. Because I was just as pessimistic in 2004 and was proven wrong not too long afterwards.

nevermind

Also, the Western Genre seemed pretty dead at one point, but then the True Grit remake came along. We then got movies like Cowboy and Aliens, Rango, and Django Unchained the next few years. We just had Lone Ranger and though it bombed badly, I bet Seth MacFarlane's comedy western next summer will be a box office hit considering the success of Ted.

I mean if westerns and musicals genres could make a comeback, traditional animation can too. If it doesn't happen, so be it. I still support Disney and John Lasseter. I feel like so many people have just turned on him the last few years. Do I agree with every decision he has made (i.e. canceling Chris Sanders' American Dog), no. The guy is part of a business and not every decision he makes is going to please everyone.

estefan wrote:Boy, convenient everybody missed the Tweet I posted earlier where Eric Goldberg admitted to a Paperman-like feature in development.

I wouldn't give that too much credit. I found Eric Goldberg's answer too vague and dubious. Here's the clip in question. Judge for yourself.

estefan wrote:Well, the reason I'm optimistic about hand-drawn animation coming back is I remember my attitude when Home on the Range was announced as the last one. I thought that, indeed, Disney was not going to make more hand-drawn films and they would be making computer-animated films forever. A couple of years later, they announced the production of more of them. That's why I'm not even close to throwing in the towel, like a lot of people on here.

But that was a very different case. I'm sure you realise that. There was a big and profound shake-up in management. Eisner stepped down, Iger came into the picture, Disney bought Pixar, Lasseter took over WDAS etc. It's highly improbable something like that will ever happen again. Even if someone else was appointed head of WDAS, it wouldn't necessarily mean they would support hand-drawn animation. If Lasseter who has a creative background and affinity for 2D animation is not willing to support the medium anymore in feature form, who will?

But that was a very different case. I'm sure you realise that. There was a big and profound shake-up in management. Eisner stepped down, Iger came into the picture, Disney bought Pixar, Lasseter took over WDAS etc. It's highly improbable something like that will ever happen again. Even if someone else was appointed head of WDAS, it wouldn't necessarily mean they would support hand-drawn animation. If Lasseter who has a creative background and affinity for 2D animation is not willing to support the medium anymore in feature form, who will?

Are you trying to rain our parade? Because you are.

Sotiris wrote:

estefan wrote:Boy, convenient everybody missed the Tweet I posted earlier where Eric Goldberg admitted to a Paperman-like feature in development.

I wouldn't give that too much credit. I found Eric Goldberg's answer too vague and dubious. Here's the clip in question. Judge for yourself.

As much as I hate to say it, I have to agree. Even though it's Eric Goldberg (even though it seems like anything he says should be a for sure thing), I don't think there's much to that. Especially since Patrick Osborne (one of the masterminds behind Paperman) replied to that tweet with something along the lines of "you sure about that?"

Even if they aren't planning to use it on one of the features at the moment, here's hoping the technique finds a home somewhere.

SWillie! wrote:Even if they aren't planning to use it on one of the features at the moment, here's hoping the technique finds a home somewhere.

I'm pretty confident they'll use it again on shorts. I think John Kahrs' new short is supposed to be in the Paperman style albeit in color this time.

estefan wrote:Well, the reason I'm optimistic about hand-drawn animation coming back is I remember my attitude when Home on the Range was announced as the last one. I thought that, indeed, Disney was not going to make more hand-drawn films and they would be making computer-animated films forever. A couple of years later, they announced the production of more of them. That's why I'm not even close to throwing in the towel, like a lot of people on here.

I honestly didn't care so much when Disney cancelled hand-drawn animation the first time. They hadn't made a film I'd enjoyed in years, so I thought it was for the best that they let their continually awful films be 3D so I'd be even less likely to see them. But I actually loved TP&TF and had really been looking forward to The Snow Queen (before it was turned into Frozen/Brave 2.0.).

how is Snow Queen/Frozen a Brave 2.0 ???

I see no connection between the two. At All.

at DisneyJedi. I've never seen his comments before!

Anyway, I'd say Frozen looks more like a cheap Tangled 2 remake, with things of Wicked here and there.

I don't mean to be a drama king, but since we always get bad news from our bad news repoters Steve Huelett and Sotiris, there is no hope for hand drawn animation. Maybe hand drawn is dead after all. And it's all John Lasseter's fault. Bob Iger is pardoned, for now. But this fault will go to Joh Lasseter. I'm going to find his e-mail address and tell him he is a coward and probably the next Michael Eisner!

Goodbye Hand Drawn Animation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-fVCUrDB0o