DVDizzy Forum

I like how everyone who reports the news kind of rolls their eyes. I think it was obvious to just about everyone except the 30 year old women who had crushes on him.

Escapay wrote:

Mike wrote:Escapay...of course it's a speech impediment, but one that seems to happen to more gay boys.

Only because they want to make it more obvious than others, and half of them don't have it naturally.

Nope. You can't prove that. Me saying there is something in all of us that, little as it may be, tells people we are gay is not the same kind of giant sweeping statement as "all gay guys who have lisps are just doing it on purpose." Why would they do that? How do you think the stereotype of gays having lisps started in the first place? There must be a true connection.

Escapay wrote:Having a lisp is no picnic and became quite an annoyance once I realized I had it. Why you keep going on about how it's a sexuality thing when you don't have one (as far as I know) is totally beyond me. If it's part of your wishful thinking that secretly all guys are gay, please, just drop it now because that's certainly not the case.

Hehehehehe...I DID have a lisp when I was younger! And I even went to a speech...person...I don't know if it was a therapist or not, but she had to help me get over my lisp over a good amount of sessions! And I happen to have pretty good teeth. Anyway, I think lisps are cute and you shouldn't stop them just because other people make fun of you or say it's wrong. You could say a man loving a man is wrong too. But I don't know if they're are good reasons to get rid of lisps besides people don't like them.

Disney Villain wrote:I apologize for venting, but this is something that truly bothers me. There are certain people who don’t speak to me. When I make new friends they question my sexuality. Just because I’m not your stereotypical 19 year old boy, does not mean I’m gay. My own family questions me, and sometimes that makes me so upset I could cry.

That last sentence especially reveals that even if you say you have nothing against gay people, the thought of anyone thinking you are gay makes you cry. And I bet it's because your family has made you believe it is bad if you are. You can talk about how okay you think it is for your friends and other people to be gay all you want, but you revealed that you could not accept yourself being gay. Tim had many gay friends but couldn't take being it himself, until he stopped suppressing who he really was.

There's no denying you think of being gay as something negative. Being gay is okay. You can be gay. You can come out. Your family may not like it, but at least be honest to your friends and people who will accept it, like people here at UD.

SpringHeelJack wrote:

Disney's Divinity wrote:I remember an underwear advertisement in one of my mom's magazines, which was of a line of about 12 firemen with their pants down, that I kept for three months when I was around thirteen.

Hey, I remember that ad. Jockey. I might still have it somewhere.

If you found it, and still have my E-mail address...could I see it?!

Marky, I'm so happy you came out! I did wonder about you but I was still surprised to know you were gay. And I wonder about lots of guys. Thank you for coming out to us! Now you can be your free self on these boards.

The Key, wow, congratulations! You both looked lovely. You had matching outfits, right? And you know, you both already look really similar. My one friend had a theory that if you look alike, like you could be sisters or brothers, it's an indication you're more meant for each than, I guess, people who look nothing alike. People tell him he looks like his current love, who he's been with for a long time, all the time.

Disney's Divinity wrote:Maybe it's just me, but it's hard for me to find a person beautiful or ugly. Sure, there are some that are more or less attractive than what you usually see, but I don't think of them as "superior/inferior" in looks. Just different. Hence the reason I don't have a particular "type".

But your type is just your preference for certain looks. The kind of guys are like are not considered attractive to most people, but I am attracted to those looks. I can't believe you haven't found certain looks you like the most.

Here's magazine scans from People magazine about Clay Aiken:

http://community.livejournal.com/ohnoth ... 29173.html

And, I don't think that Mike was saying that it's bad to be gay, but you don't want people to think of you as something you're not. If he's into a girl and she thinks he's gay, for example, she might not go out with him. Just my thought.

While I'm glad that more celebs are comming out in the public, I do kinda wish it were one's who weren't COMPLETELY obvious, hahaha. But good for them none the less!

lord-of-sith wrote:While I'm glad that more celebs are comming out in the public, I do kinda wish it were one's who weren't COMPLETELY obvious, hahaha. But good for them none the less!

Speaking of which, has anyone noticed that when certain celebrities come out, male of female, perception of that person changes dramatically?

For example, one of my friends respected Lance Bass from NSYNC. He thought that he was the only one in the group with a brain and thought that he was smart and cool. When Lance came out he was all like "...Damn! And he was the best one!", implying that his homosexuality had ruined his reputation as the smart one of the group.

I personally think that's unfair. OK, homosexuality is still a taboo and people still see it as a wrong thing to do. Yet, if a person is good, does acts of kindness, is honest, sincere, smart, caring and an overall great person how can sexuality ruin that.

I think gay people can lead a normal life despite their preferences. I think the problem is that homosexuality has been made into a joke, thanks to all the stereotypes and the gay people that push them. I've always believed, and sorry if I offend anyone here, that if gay people want to be taken seriously they NEED to act seriously.

Maybe then, when someone comes out people say "Oh, good for him" rather than "Oh man, he was such a great guy!".

I was pretty close minded on the gay issue myself, until one of my best friends came out...and I gotta say anyone who doesn't accpet them or doesnt' care you're truly missing out.

I agree completely pap64!

I try to follow that philosophy myself. At school and when I'm around my friends, I act just as I always have and my personality and sense of humor and all of that has changed zero (though we're now able to slide in the occasional joke now and then, which is just fine).

And I wouldn't be surprised (though gossip spreads like wild fire at my school) if there were those who didn't know about my sexual preferences, and like being around me due to my personality, which is how it should be. The one thing I stressed when I decided to tell people was that I wasn't any different of a person! Luckily, I think it's worked for the most part.

lord-of-sith wrote:I agree completely pap64!

I try to follow that philosophy myself. At school and when I'm around my friends, I act just as I always have and my personality and sense of humor and all of that has changed zero (though we're now able to slide in the occasional joke now and then, which is just fine).

And I wouldn't be surprised (though gossip spreads like wild fire at my school) if there were those who didn't know about my sexual preferences, and like being around me due to my personality, which is how it should be. The one thing I stressed when I decided to tell people was that I wasn't any different of a person! Luckily, I think it's worked for the most part.

This has a lot to do with how young men handle sexuality. I've seen young men accept their sexuality, and their families accept it as well. And the first thing they do is dress and act like a woman.

I hate to condone this, since if it makes the person happy then fine, but again, if people expect homosexuality to be accepted don't live the stereotype. Not saying that all gay men (and lesbians as well) aren't stereotypes, but many of them go all out. I've seen men that the minute they come out put on tons of make up, wear the tightest dresses and latch onto every man they find.

A good example of this is Nation Pride. I am Puertorican and proud of it. I will never hide it and remember it, even if my life leads to grandeur. However, that doesn't mean I HAVE to love and only love my country, wear the Puertorican flag all over my body, underwear included and decorate my house with everything Puertorican. Its OK to be proud but doing excessively annoys people and harm you. Same with homosexuality.

If you accepted it and you are happy, good for you. But don't go all out, trying to prove a point to the world and forcing people to accept it, much less shock them into it. As long as this keeps going on homophobia will reign supreme.

Congratulations TheKey!

I am gay as well.

Sorry for being so late, but congrats theKey! I wish you the happiest for you and your partner!

And congratulations on coming out here Marky and Prince Edward! Looks like our community on this board just keeps growing.

Disney Villain wrote:I apologize for venting, but this is something that truly bothers me. There are certain people who don’t speak to me. When I make new friends they question my sexuality. Just because I’m not your stereotypical 19 year old boy, does not mean I’m gay. My own family questions me, and sometimes that makes me so upset I could cry.

That last sentence especially reveals that even if you say you have nothing against gay people, the thought of anyone thinking you are gay makes you cry. And I bet it's because your family has made you believe it is bad if you are. You can talk about how okay you think it is for your friends and other people to be gay all you want, but you revealed that you could not accept yourself being gay. Tim had many gay friends but couldn't take being it himself, until he stopped suppressing who he really was.

Actually, I think it was the fact that his family continually questions him that made him cry. If he's not gay, then why should he not be mad when people constantly say/suppose he is? It's no different than, say, assuming that because you're a woman you're naturally a gossip or busybody. It's a wide generalization that's offensive in and of itself.

Disney Duster wrote:

Disney's Divinity wrote:Maybe it's just me, but it's hard for me to find a person beautiful or ugly. Sure, there are some that are more or less attractive than what you usually see, but I don't think of them as "superior/inferior" in looks. Just different. Hence the reason I don't have a particular "type".

But your type is just your preference for certain looks. The kind of guys are like are not considered attractive to most people, but I am attracted to those looks. I can't believe you haven't found certain looks you like the most.

If you read my post: "Sure, there are some that are more or less attractive than what you usually see, but I don't think of them as 'superior/inferior' in looks." I personally find it not only impossible, but degrading to have a "type" of person you're looking for. No two people are alike completely. Sure, two people might have dark hair and rugged features, but one might have thick thighs while the other has thin arms. Noone's completely the same and to say you can only be attracted to "such-and-such who has A and B" is kind of ridiculus in my opinion. I've found many men attractive and not all of them fall under the same "type." Some were older, some pale, some hairy, some tall, some with curly hair, and so on. I can't honestly say that I prefer one to another as they're all equally satisfying. Meaning the looks have very little to do with a relationship for me as they're almost never a problem.

pap64 wrote:I've always believed, and sorry if I offend anyone here, that if gay people want to be taken seriously they NEED to act seriously.

This reminds me of my pet peeve with the Gay Pride Parades. How can you take individuals, who are promoting the reality that two same-gender people can love each other equally as much as those of separate gender, seriously when it seems the only thing they present to the public is an image of promiscuity, superficiality and one-night-stands? What about the gay students, politicians, artists, teachers, older [long-term] couples, parents and everything else? Can we all be summed up in the degrading, sex-oriented mindset that pervades every inch of the parades? They have good ideas, to be sure (be proud and unashamed of who you are--especially when you don't find the life you're leading shameful), but they're flawed in their execution.

EDIT: Had to fix some problems--and congratulations TheKey!

Disney's Divinity wrote:

I've always believed, and sorry if I offend anyone here, that if gay people want to be taken seriously they NEED to act seriously.

This reminds me of my pet peeve with the Gay Pride Parades. How can you take individuals, who are promoting the reality that two same-gender people can love each other equally as much as those of separate gender, seriously when it seems the only thing they present to the public is an image of promiscuity, superficiality and one-night-stands? What about the gay students, politicians, artists, couples, parents and everything else? Can we all be summed up in the degrading, sex-oriented mindset that pervades every inch of the parades? They have good ideas in mind (be proud and unashamed of who you are), but they're flawed in their execution.

I wanted to mention this earlier, but didn't want to potentially offend anyone that believed in this.

I've seen some of these parades and they are disturbing to say the least. I mean, I'm happy that they enjoy their life and that they are happy enough to show it with pride, but like you said, these parades are only showing ONE side of homosexuality, and its sadly the worst one.

Like you said, there are many gay people who live a serious life and are dedicated to their dreams. These parades are giving people the idea that EVERY gay man and woman lead these lives. As long as this continues people will see homosexuality as a JOKE constantly used in the likes of "Family Guy" instead of a serious life decision that carries its own set of responsibilities.

You're awesome Campbellz. I knew a football player who sat next to me in high school who told me he had a problem with it until someone close to him, friend or family, maybe it was his cousin, came out. I wish personal experience like that could happen more to more close-minded people.

Disney's Divinity wrote:If he's not gay, then why should he not be mad when people constantly say/suppose he is? It's no different than, say, assuming that because you're a woman you're naturally a gossip or busybody. It's a wide generalization that's offensive in and of itself.

But it actually is different. A gossip and a busybody are thought of as very negative things to be. In his mind, so is being gay!

Disney Duster wrote:I personally find it not only impossible, but degrading to have a "type" of person you're looking for. No two people are alike completely. Sure, two people might have dark hair and rugged features, but one might have thick thighs while the other has thin arms. Noone's completely the same and to say you can only be attracted to "such-and-such who has A and B" is kind of ridiculus in my opinion. I've found many men attractive and not all of them fall under the same "type." Some were older, some pale, some hairy, some tall, some with curly hair, and so on. I can't honestly say that I prefer one to another as they're all equally satisfying. Meaning the looks have very little to do with a relationship for me as they're almost never a problem.

Well, I didn't say you were only attracted to you types. I don't go out only looking for one type of person, I want to give everyone a chance! Personally, I recognize many attractive people, but I noticed I'm more attracted to teddy bears than the usual Hollywood celebs. It's just what you notice you like the most. You really haven't found what you like the most looks wise, just, you know, noticed it?

pap64 and Divinity: Okay, if pride is about being prideful of who you are, being yourself, who's to say those guys in the pride parades aren't just being prideful about how they like to dress like women or they like to be sexy and promiscuous? It's just letting everyone do what they want to do because it's who they are and what they like to do, and for some reason those "types" of guys or girls are the ones who are always in the parades. If you think about it, the ones who are the proudest probably are the ones who like showing the world that they're gay, but they probably also genuinely like those things, too. Can you imagine guys with rooms full of all this guy stuff just to show the whole world they're gay, but really, secretly, they hate it? Why would you waste your cash and time and space on all that?

Disney Duster wrote:pap64 and Divinity: Okay, if pride is about being prideful of who you are, being yourself, who's to say those guys in the pride parades aren't just being prideful about how they like to dress like women or they like to be sexy and promiscuous? It's just letting everyone do what they want to do because it's who they are and what they like to do, and for some reason those "types" of guys or girls are the ones who are always in the parades. If you think about it, the ones who are the proudest probably are the ones who like showing the world that they're gay, but they probably also genuinely like those things, too. Can you imagine guys with rooms full of all this guy stuff just to show the whole world they're gay, but really, secretly, they hate it? Why would you waste your cash and time and space on all that?

I said that this was going to be hard to argue because you are right in that if people are happy being that way they shouldn't hold it back. But there's also no denying that it works like a double edged knife. While you are happy showing your life style you are leading people to the belief that homosexuality means make up, feathers, parties and endless sex. Its part of homosexuality, sure, but a very small part of it.

When you ask someone what homosexuality means to them, they are likely to say "Men having sex with each other while wearing women's clothes". Its a stereotype that doesn't fit everyone, and it being pushed just doesn't help the cause. I admit I also don't like it when they take Puertorican pride to exaggerated lengths for the same reasons. Its OK to love your culture, its OK to be who you are, but overblow it and people will get the wrong idea.

Like I said, not every gay guy is like the men in the parades. They might be gay but lead a normal life, and like wearing men's clothing. Men's clothes can be as pretty as women's clothing so why "hate it"?

Disney Duster wrote: Okay, if pride is about being prideful of who you are, being yourself, who's to say those guys in the pride parades aren't just being prideful about how they like to dress like women or they like to be sexy and promiscuous? It's just letting everyone do what they want to do because it's who they are and what they like to do, and for some reason those "types" of guys or girls are the ones who are always in the parades.

I suppose that's true, but I hate that that's the impression the entire world seems to form about gay people as the result of it (and many other examples on TV and film). I don't like being compared to that side of gay life, but unfortunately I always am because I'm gay. I'm sure a respectable woman wouldn't enjoy being compared to a tramp either.

I agree with Pap64, personally I never try to do anything that would be stereotypical simply because I don't want to promote just that side of being gay. I do the things I always do and show my friend that there's more to being gay than having a lisp or being flashy etc. Of course it's also in my nature, I've always been quiet and the kind of guy who sits in the back of the room and watches the fun instead of participating.

Anways moving on, I've always wondered how in the world do you find the local scene It seems like our town is just full of straight people, I don't know where to go on Friday nights or where to meet other gay guys to just hang out. I know we have a couple of bars but those are like..Road House type places There is a club somewhere though, just wish I could remember where it is.

I know I am pushing the issue, but I want to make this clear.

If you are gay and you like women's clothing, being trendy, sleeping with men, dressing up like a woman, wearing makeup and being openly gay that's FINE.

What I am talking about here is to not promote it as part of homosexuality or that people who are gay act this way too. That's what I am against. When was the last time you saw a serious portrayal of a gay guy? Very rarely because people are still holding on to the fact that all gay guys worship Liza Minelli, all gay guys wear excessive make up and feathers and that ALL gay guys can't be conservative or serious about their sexuality.

Just look at "Brokeback Mountain". Its supposedly a great drama and a very powerful love story, nominated for an Academy Award. What did people do? Make fun of it because it was a "gay cowboy movie", even though it presented a very serious side of homosexuality. And why is that? Because people see homosexuality as a JOKE, a joke that is sometimes pushed by the gay community. I understand that they can take a joke, but when they strive to say that "This is how ALL gay people are" it sends the cause back.

We can proud of who we are without openly expressing it. To me, being proud means being humble about it and strive for big dreams despite your stance in life. Not breaking out the American flag at any event isn't being un-patriotic. Not writing about your culture doesn't make you a hater, and not wearing women's clothing doesn't make you lose your homosexuality.

Not admitting who you really are is the real example of anti-pride. Being gay and not wearing women's clothes is not losing your homosexuality.

pap64 wrote:I know I am pushing the issue, but I want to make this clear.

If you are gay and you like women's clothing, being trendy, sleeping with men, dressing up like a woman, wearing makeup and being openly gay that's FINE.

What I am talking about here is to not promote it as part of homosexuality or that people who are gay act this way too. That's what I am against. When was the last time you saw a serious portrayal of a gay guy? Very rarely because people are still holding on to the fact that all gay guys worship Liza Minelli, all gay guys wear excessive make up and feathers and that ALL gay guys can't be conservative or serious about their sexuality.

Just look at "Brokeback Mountain". Its supposedly a great drama and a very powerful love story, nominated for an Academy Award. What did people do? Make fun of it because it was a "gay cowboy movie", even though it presented a very serious side of homosexuality. And why is that? Because people see homosexuality as a JOKE, a joke that is sometimes pushed by the gay community. I understand that they can take a joke, but when they strive to say that "This is how ALL gay people are" it sends the cause back.

We can proud of who we are without openly expressing it. To me, being proud means being humble about it and strive for big dreams despite your stance in life. Not breaking out the American flag at any event isn't being un-patriotic. Not writing about your culture doesn't make you a hater, and not wearing women's clothing doesn't make you lose your homosexuality.

Not admitting who you really are is the real example of anti-pride. Being gay and not wearing women's clothes is not losing your homosexuality.

I've actually never really known who Liza Minelli is, I hear her name and draw a blank.

But like I said I agree and I think that you said it very well Pap

Hey, CB, to get a quick lesson in Liza Minelli watch Cabaret (1972). It's well worth your time!

Jon

carolinakid wrote:Hey, CB, to get a quick lesson in Liza Minelli watch Cabaret (1972). It's well worth your time!

Jon

Y'know, I watched Cabaret... wasn't too impressed.