DVDizzy Forum

Sotiris wrote:January 30, 2012

Steve Hulett wrote:Word is that Frozen, the feature following Wreck-It Ralph, will pick up most crew members as they come off Ralph. Here's hoping.

Source: http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/ ... y-hat.html

interesting!! Thanx Sotiris!

REINIER wrote:Thanks Sotiris!

No problem!

TsWade2 wrote:OMG! They look frickin' awesome! It's too bad it's going to be CG since Disney is too chicken**** to make it into 2D hand drawn. Pardon my french.

I think that that's a good way to put it...

DisneyJedi wrote:

Super Aurora wrote: Corporates only care mostly about the first few days domestic BO income. That's why those numbers is what they mostly care about and why they were disappointed.

You know, this is why corporates are morons. They don't just wait and see how it all turns out in the long run. True, the movie was no 'Lion King' in terms of box office numbers, but come on! At least it managed to gain most of its budget back domestically and that doesn't even include foreign numbers or merchandise!

I mean, remember when Eisner called Treasure Planet a failure before giving it a chance? And then the below examples:

DisneyJedi wrote:The only times Disney has made TERRIBLE moves is these times:

1) Releasing Treasure Planet a week or two after Harry Potter 2, which was getting more buzz.

2) Having Home on the Range released during April instead of during the Summer or Holiday seasons (something Eisner made sure of to "prove" that 2D was "dead")

3) Pitting Bolt against Twilight by releasing it the same day

4) Having The Princess and the Frog released a week before the bigger moneymaker, Avatar (which is total BS, because Avatar was not really that original, and TPatF would've earned more box office earnings if they had just released it on Thanksgiving. Yeah, it would be up against that one ninja movie and Fantastic Mr. Fox, but at least it probably would have gained more audiences than it originally had gotten).

5) Pitting Winnie the Pooh against Harry Potter and having it released a week before Captain America.

Really, the only time they didn't fuck it up was with Tangled!

I mean, one has to wonder the thoughts behind the suits for these hand-drawn films.

Often times the public is "told" what to like. Really. I mean, it's like teenyboppers- they're fed what is "cool" at that moment, and then often 6 months later, a new fad has come along. So if people are told that CGI films are the worthy films, the cool films, and now 3D is getting that, then the general public are going to want to see those films. It's a popularity contest- if people say that so-and-so is the coolest person in the school, then even without knowing that person, people will believe the hype just because that's what is said by others.

Kyle wrote:Umm, why would the execs Want to sabotage the company's own movies? if you subscribe to the mindset that their just money grubbing suits then wouldn't they want to give their movies, 2d or 3d the best fighting chance? I realize they make stupid moves, but I think they genuinely thought they they were doing the right thing to make these movies as successful as they could. There's no reason for a greedy exec to be biased, they would only care about the numbers. If pooh and princess could have done better why go out of your way just to prove a point and make less money?

So they don't have to make hand-drawn films anymore. Maybe some in the industry see Disney as being old-fashioned for making hand-drawn films. Maybe some tease Disney for these films. I don't know. I mean, I guess in my mind, the industry is like a school...with a popularity contest and teasing.

Especially if the general public is fed that "CGI is in. 3D is in." Why would they see other films. Why would someone wear bellbottoms when skinny jeans are clearly in? They'll just get made fun of unless they are so self-assured and don't care about other people's opinions. Disney cares about other people's opinions.

DisneyAnimation88 wrote:I just don't understand why some people are so dramatic over the hand-drawn vs CG issue.

When John Lasseter came on board, we were pretty much promised more hand-drawn films. And he kind of lied...or whittled down his promise a lot.

Kyle wrote:Yeah. The frustration comes from a lack of balance though. hand drawn fans are starved and even though I don't have a preference, I can see where their coming from. I would be overjoyed if they would announce any hand drawn movie personally. Whether it turns out any good is another matter of course.

As much as I've loved Disney's CGI films, I don't think I could ever love a CGI film as much as I do hand-drawn films. There is just a specialness to the artform that thrills me, and those who also prefer hand-drawn films. And it goes back to what I wrote above about Lasseter's promise. Disney fans' hopes were up due to the changes in the schedule, which, granted, can happen regardless of the medium and the studio, but what are the odds that so many hand-drawn films have gotten off the schedule.


And must every film further the technological aspects of animated film? I mean, a film can be enjoyable for what it is, right? Just doing tried-and-true should sometimes be just fine. Winnie the Pooh was hugely entertaining, much more than I was expecting going into it. I think what hurt Pooh was the fact that the Pooh brand has been diluted into being for preschoolers, and that misconception probably kept people away.

blackcauldron85 wrote: When John Lasseter came on board, we were pretty much promised more hand-drawn films. And he kind of lied...or whittled down his promise a lot.

Well, if he lied, that kind of makes me wish he would get kicked out of his position or demoted or something. I mean, really. If he's gonna promise something, the least he can do is go through on his promise.

Heck, I'm starting to wonder if Lasseter even CARES about the future of hand-drawn animation, let alone what we think.

DisneyJedi wrote:

blackcauldron85 wrote: When John Lasseter came on board, we were pretty much promised more hand-drawn films. And he kind of lied...or whittled down his promise a lot.

Well, if he lied, that kind of makes me wish he would get kicked out of his position or demoted or something. I mean, really. If he's gonna promise something, the least he can do is go through on his promise.

Heck, I'm starting to wonder if Lasseter even CARES about the future of hand-drawn animation, let alone what we think.

Hey,Mr.Lasseter doesn't have all the power to make the decisions.Heck, I don't know if he lied or anything but he trying his best to get results.

I also feel you guys are being a little bit too unfair towards Mr.Lasseter because I think some of the recent films he has had a hand in are pretty good.I think he does put a lot of heart into most of his stories he oversees.I think he has done something for the CGI films is that he actually put some heart into them.

jazzflower92 wrote:

DisneyJedi wrote: Well, if he lied, that kind of makes me wish he would get kicked out of his position or demoted or something. I mean, really. If he's gonna promise something, the least he can do is go through on his promise.

Heck, I'm starting to wonder if Lasseter even CARES about the future of hand-drawn animation, let alone what we think.

Hey,Mr.Lasseter doesn't have all the power to make the decisions.Heck, I don't know if he lied or anything but he trying his best to get results.

I also feel you guys are being a little bit too unfair towards Mr.Lasseter because I think some of the recent films he has had a hand in are pretty good.I think he does put a lot of heart into most of his stories he oversees.I think he has done something for the CGI films is that he actually put some heart into them.

jazzflower92's right! Cut John Lasseteer some slack! He did not lie at all. Besides, making a hand drawn movie is very expensive to make. I'm just glad that Frozen formely The Snow Queen is going to be made. Hopefully Alan Menken is doing the songs like Tangled.

TsWade2 wrote:... making a hand drawn movie is very expensive to make.

AHGJILKJMLOKNKUS!!!! WHAT?!?!?! CGI's even more expensive! I mean, Tangled is Disney's second most expensive film (behind one of the four Pirates of the Caribbean movies). Toy Story 3 wasn't exactly cheap to make either...

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118007794

"I've always felt that the studio that should still be doing hand-drawn animation is the studio that started it all"

though both he and Cook are hopeful "Princess" will give them license to make more 2-D pics, they insist the fate of the format doesn't rely on the success or failure of that one film.

Lasseter is already planning other hand-drawn projects at Disney Animation. "Rapunzel," due out in 2010, will be CG, but the 2011 take on "Winnie the Pooh" could go either way.

"The thing I've prided myself in all the years of working at Pixar is picking the subject matters that really lend themselves to computer animation," says Lasseter, who directed toons about toys, bugs and cars himself. "Now, going to Disney, I get to think about what great subject matter lends itself to hand-drawn animation."

...

In his exec role, Lasseter can hardly ignore the business side, but creative concerns still take precedence -- and Cook has his back, stressing that the studio is once again making animation for the ages, not just opening weekend. Should "Princess" prove a frog at the box office, "Nothing's going to happen," Cook promises. "We will continue to look at all forms of animation, whether it be hand-drawn, computer or stop-motion."

Maybe we should blame the lack of hand-drawn animation on the fact that Dick Cook isn't at Disney anymore...?

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http://wsau.com/news/articles/2010/feb/ ... eating-os/

Q: Four years ago, Disney bought Pixar and made you chief creative officer of the animation unit. What's changed?

A: "The very first thing I wanted to do was hand-drawn animation again. So we hired (animation team) John Musker and Ron Clements back to the studio. They had been let go because Disney stopped doing hand-drawn animation."

Q: The result was "The Princess and the Frog," which gave birth to Disney's first black princess and earned three Oscar nominations including best animated feature. With all the computer technology in films today, why go back to hand drawn?

A: "I love the medium. It was where I got my training. Never in the history of cinema has a medium entertained an audience. It's what you do with the medium. But for some reason, hand-drawn animation became the scapegoat for bad storytelling."

Q: Why do you think that was?

A: "Toy Story" was the first computer animated feature ever, so I think others kept looking at the success we had and thought it must be because of the computer animation."

Q: But you say it's not.

A: "If you're sitting in your minivan, playing your computer animated films for your children in the back seat, is it the animation that's entertaining you as you drive and listen? No, it's the storytelling. That's why we put so much importance on story. No amount of great animation will save a bad story."

http://www.slashfilm.com/wondercon-the- ... at-disney/

West says that Disney plans to have a digital animated film out every 18 months and a traditional hand-drawn animated feature out every two and a half years.

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/43332

JM: I think there are different tools for the artists to use, just like there’s sculpture and there’s painting and there’s photography, and so I think it would be great to have different forms of expression available for the artist. Even now with John Lasseter on all of these movies that the various directors pitch to him, I think they pitch movies to him and they suggest to him “I would like to do this hand drawn.” “I would like to do this computer animated.” He’s open to hearing pitches either way, and I think that’s great that there’s that openness to try that.

Capone: Is the plan to do more hand-drawn projects?

JM: That was always the plan I think even with John Lasseter brought it back, and they weren’t saying “Let’s bring it back as an experiment and see what happens.” Certainly the stakes are kind of high with this movie, and we certainly hope it does well, but the plan was to bring it back and to keep doing it.

RC: The plan isn’t to do like one a year, like it was being done for a while, but to do one every couple of years, and I think that seems like a good way to go just in terms of the manageability and it keeps it special. There’s a little more novelty to it. Even right now In a year that had so many other types of animation, I like this being a hand drawn and a novelty certainly with all of the computer films that have come out this year that we are kind of a new act in town; I like being in that spot.

JM: Digital or even hand drawn, these things take three to four years to do, so any way to do them coming out sooner than that is to have overlapping productions which spreads the talent thin and also can kind of kill people over time, so that seems good like there will be a new hand-drawn film every two or three years. That seems about right.

http://www.japantoday.com/category/arts ... rawn-roots

As for Clements and Musker, the duo said they’re already in talks with Lasseter about their next feature — which “will certainly be hand-drawn.” And what story will the pair tackle? Sadly, mum’s the word.

I could go on and on...

DisneyJedi wrote: AHGJILKJMLOKNKUS!!!! WHAT?!?!?! CGI's even more expensive! I mean, Tangled is Disney's second most expensive film (behind one of the four Pirates of the Caribbean movies). Toy Story 3 wasn't exactly cheap to make either...

In Tangled's, case the reason it was such high budget was because of the extensive pre production it underwent constantly. It's same reason why Sleeping beauty cost a lot at it's time too, because of the long duration of it's production to prepare the movie. Not because it was CGI or 2D. In fact doing the cgi or hand drawn animation is actually the easiest and fast process to go through.

So lemme see if I got this right. Disney would still be doing more hand-drawn projects if Dick Cook was still at the studios? I smell a little suspicion, because honestly, he was probably fired just so Bob Iger could destroy the company's only few chances at reviving hand-drawn animation....

DisneyJedi wrote:So lemme see if I got this right. Disney would still be doing more hand-drawn projects if Dick Cook was still at the studios? I smell a little suspicion, because honestly, he was probably fired just so Bob Iger could destroy the company's only few chances at reviving hand-drawn animation....

I mean, I can't be sure, but it definitely could be part of the lack of hand-drawn animation now.

And I get that the medium shouldn't matter, it should be the story. But I guess the hand-drawn fans are sad because we were told that Disney would be making hand-drawn films regularly, and we're unsure if that's really true or not, especially with medium-changes and canceled films.

DisneyJedi wrote:So lemme see if I got this right. Disney would still be doing more hand-drawn projects if Dick Cook was still at the studios? I smell a little suspicion, because honestly, he was probably fired just so Bob Iger could destroy the company's only few chances at reviving hand-drawn animation....

You're full of more conspiracy theories than anyone I've ever known lol.

@blackcauldron85: Thanks for all the information.

What is most frustrating is the double standard between Bolt and TPatF. When TPatF underperformed because of a bad release date, they blamed the medium and stopped producing hand-drawn animation. But when Bolt underperformed for the exact same reason, they didn't blame CG and continued to produce CG animation.

Man, this is getting a bit more depressing. Mickey Mouse aim at preschoolers and stupid idiotic people don't care of hand drawn? This is a total disgrace! This makes me feel like writing a threat letter to Disney! If I were the CEO of Disney, I clean their mess they're making and force them to bring back everything or else! I guess this is the end of the world of 2012 after all!

Could you guys calm down? 2 of the last 3 movies have been hand drawn. And there are currently only two confirmed projects which are in CG

TsWade2 wrote:Man, this is getting a bit more depressing. Mickey Mouse aim at preschoolers and stupid idiotic people don't care of hand drawn? This is a total disgrace! This makes me feel like writing a threat letter to Disney! If I were the CEO of Disney, I clean their mess they're making and force them to bring back everything or else! I guess this is the end of the world of 2012 after all!

Hey,no threat letters because that will get thrown in jail or possibly sued by Disney.

Let's not forget, that animated films aren't the only thing they've set bad release dates on.

I mean, of course, I'm sure it was an excellent idea to place Prince Caspian within the same time slot as some super-hero movie with Robert Downey Jr. and the latest in a popular series from both Steven Spielberg and George Lucas.

jazzflower92 wrote:

TsWade2 wrote:Man, this is getting a bit more depressing. Mickey Mouse aim at preschoolers and stupid idiotic people don't care of hand drawn? This is a total disgrace! This makes me feel like writing a threat letter to Disney! If I were the CEO of Disney, I clean their mess they're making and force them to bring back everything or else! I guess this is the end of the world of 2012 after all!

Hey,no threat letters because that will get thrown in jail or possibly sued by Disney.

Okay. okay. But I was just saying that because I'm upset.

Could you guys calm down? 2 of the last 3 movies have been hand drawn. And there are currently only two confirmed projects which are in CG

We can't help it. We're desperate Disney fans.

blackcauldron85 wrote:When John Lasseter came on board, we were pretty much promised more hand-drawn films. And he kind of lied...or whittled down his promise a lot.

True and in that time Disney have released The Princess and the Frog and Winnie the Pooh. The next two films are CG but after those are released, whose to say that there won't be another hand-drawn film released? Things can change so quickly at Disney and beyond Frozen, none of us can be sure of what exactly they're working on. Personally, I just prefer to wait and see what actually happens in the future than worry or get angry about things I can't control.

DisneyJedi wrote:I smell a little suspicion, because honestly, he was probably fired just so Bob Iger could destroy the company's only few chances at reviving hand-drawn animation....

How do you come up with these wild conspiracy theories? He was fired to make way for Rich Ross, the man who had overseen the creation of the current "tween" Disney Channel so if I was a betting man, I would guess that Iger and the board thought Ross was an executive who knew how to appeal to younger audiences and that his success on TV would carry over to other areas of the company, especially live-action film. I might be wrong but I really don't think its part of any kind of diabolical scheme of Bob Iger's to destroy hand-drawn animation.

The firing of Dick Cook was bad for the entire Disney Company in my opinion, not just animation. He seemed to be one of the very few executives of whom no one had a bad word to say and did a good job but unfortunately, there's no sentiment in business. I don't think his successor has done a particularly good job either.

qindarka wrote:Could you guys calm down? 2 of the last 3 movies have been hand drawn. And there are currently only two confirmed projects which are in CG

Not quite. After Lasseter took over WDAS we've had:

FEATURES

Released

Meet the Robinsons (CG) (although this doesn't count as it was too far into production when Lasseter came on board.)

Bolt (CG)

The Princess and the Frog (2D)

Tangled (CG)

Winnie the Pooh (2D)

Upcoming (announced by Disney)

Wreck-It Ralph (CG)

Frozen (CG)

King of the Elves (CG)

Upcoming (announced by the directors themselves)

Dean Wellins' Untitled Film (CG)

Greno & Howard's Untitled Film (CG)

Clements & Musker's Untitled Film (CG with 2D elements/2D look)

Upcoming (announced by a reliable insider)

Don Hall's Untitled Film (CG)

SHORTS

Released

How to Hook Up Your Home Theater (2D)

Glago's Guest (CG)

Super Rhino (CG)

Prep & Landing (CG)

Tick Tock Tale (CG)

Prep & Landing: Operation Secret Santa (CG)

The Ballad of Nessie (2D)

Prep & Landing: Naughty vs. Nice (CG)

Tangled Ever After (CG)

Upcoming (announced by the directors themselves)

John Kahrs' Untitled Short (CG)

New 'Prep & Landing' Special (CG)

The score so far is:

Features - CG (10), 2D (2)

Shorts - CG (9), 2D (2)