DVDizzy Forum

Sotiris wrote:

Disney's Divinity wrote:Treasure Planet wasn't a musical, but at least it had "Always Know Where You Are" and "I'm Still Here," both of which I enjoyed.

I like those songs too. It's a shame the film version of "Always Know Where You Are" performed by John Rzeznik is not on the soundtrack. His version is much better than BBMak's.

Hmm. I won't go into the how's, but when I was a child, I only had the two songs from the film and not the soundtrack. There were no credits, so I guess I never realized it wasn't John Rzeznik that I was listening to for "AKWYA"? I admit I don't know the voices that well, all those grungey rock singers sound the same to me.

blackcauldron85 wrote:I think I recently read (on here??) that John's record label made an agreement with Disney that he'd only have one song on the soundtrack...

Really? That's too bad. I always thought Treasure Planet would make a great rock musical. If it ever gets a stage adaptation, that's the approach they should go with. Rock pairs well with teenage angst and coming-of-age stories.

Sotiris wrote:I prefer Sisu's previous design. I feel it was more distinct and dragon-like. She looks much more feminine here. They removed her dragon mustache and made her snout shorter and smoother. She now looks more like a unicorn from My Little Pony than a Chinese dragon. I also prefer her previous tail which was more elaborate and colorful. My biggest concern is that she doesn't look close enough to her human form anymore. The previous design did. I hope they have at least changed her human form to match the new dragon design.

you know, Ive changed my mind, I now prefer her original concept art look more. Its true, now she looks like she was designed for one of those Barbie CGI movies, very cutesy/girly and generic. At first I thought the older concept design was a bit too busy and gaudy looking but I also liked that it was (probably)based on the leafy sea dragon, which would have at least given her a more water creature like appearance. Here's a google link to what the animal looks like (its basically a blinged out seahorse, lol.) I always thought they were cool looking.

https://www.google.com/search?q=leafy+s ... 67&dpr=0.9

Will there be more voice actors than Tran and Awkwafina in the movie will and will be get some more adult roles !!

I guess the cast will be pretty unknown or at least leaser known since i can't think of any Southeast Asian actors or actress that are well known.

Do you think they could get away with casting chiease actress like Lucille Soong Elizabeth Sung or Takayo Fischer in the movie ?

Thanks for taking the time to reply to all those things, Sotiris. I was looking forward to knowing your opinion on several of them and it's fun to analyze, discuss and speculate about them with you and everybody else here.

Sotiris wrote:I prefer Sisu's previous design. I feel it was more distinct and dragon-like. She looks much more feminine here. They removed her dragon mustache and made her snout shorter and smoother. She now looks more like a unicorn from My Little Pony than a Chinese dragon. I also prefer her previous tail which was more elaborate and colorful.

I agree with everything you said. Regarding the tail, maybe they changed it to make it more similar to Naga representations such as these:

Sotiris wrote:My biggest concern is that she doesn't look close enough to her human form anymore. The previous design did. I hope they have at least changed her human form to match the new dragon design.

I think it's possible they've done that. Though, the hair color of Sisu's human form is more similar to the mane of the final dragon design than to the old one, so I'm not completely sure about that.

Sotiris wrote:I think when it comes to clip-art and publicity art, they just edit them and mix and match elements depending on the updates in design. I doubt she uses both in the film.

You're right, most likely she only uses the sword in the final film.

Sotiris wrote:The sword might be the reason the white tribe is after her. Maybe she stole it from them to help her track down the gem. I think the sword might double as a tracking device for it.

That's possible. Although, the sword looks very similar to the one his father has in the teaser, so maybe she has inherited it from him. Perhaps what she has stolen in that scene (if that's why the white tribe is after her) is a fragment of the gem ot the boat itself.

Sotiris wrote:I wonder if he'll write a song for the end credits like he did with Atlantis.

I hope he does. Or at least that there's an end credits song, even if it's not by him.

Sotiris wrote:I'm confused by that shot. There are supposed to be five clans, right? Do Raya and her father belong in the green tribe? Them wearing green in that shot seems to indicate that. Or do they belong in the blue tribe? I'm assuming there's a blue clan based on kid Raya's other outfit. Come to think of it, we never got to see what the fifth clan looked like. Could the fifth clan be the dragons that got extinct?

Personally, the way I understood that shot is that, as rulers, Raya and her father are the hosts of an event/meeting held in their land and the other clans are visiting and that's why they're in front of them, while the rest of Raya's clan could be behind his father and her, but maybe I'm wrong and they belong in one of the tribes that are in front of them. Anyway, you may have a point that the dragons are the fifth clan. In the following image taken from one of the book covers, the symbols that represent each clan appear. Not all of them match with the ones shown in that shot from the teaser (maybe the cover features an old version of some of them), but there's one that looks like it could represent a dragon; the one on the right:



That could be an indication that the dragons are one of the clans, as you said. Although, dragons are featured on Raya's green outfit, her sword and the place where Raya trains with her father, so it's also possible they're the symbol of Raya's clan. After all, her tribe seems to have a special connection with dragons as they're responsible for guarding the dragon gem.

Sotiris wrote:I think she'll be an antagonist and a rival who genuinely cares about the welfare of the kingdom, but has a different approach to Raya's on how to protect it. That's where they'll clash. I, too, believe they'll become friends (or at least learn to value each other) by the end.

That sounds quite likely.

Sotiris wrote:

D82 wrote:Yes, when they said there would be a third female protagonist I guess they were referring to her.

I think so too, but then why are they keeping her a secret? I think it will all come down to the next trailer. If she's not present in that one, then something's up.

I don't know, the teaser trailer focused mostly on Raya and there was only a brief glimpse at the dragon, so they still have to officially introduce Sisu. I think it's likely the first full trailer will focus on Sisu and they'll leave Namari for the final trailer. Though, if she's as important in the story as they said, maybe they won't be able to keep her a secret for so long.

Sotiris wrote:

D82 wrote:And you're right, maybe the teamwork part was between Raya and her. Or between Raya and the misfits. We'll see.

Maybe both. Perhaps after Raya returns home, they'll all have to work together to defeat the enemy.

That's possible.

Sotiris wrote:This means that to find all the fragments they'll have to visit various locales. I assume Raya will first meet Sisu and then find each misfit at a different location. This plotline reminds me of Sailor Moon where they had to find the Rainbow Crystals to re-assemble the Silver Crystal.

You're probably right about that. I'd like it because that would mean more screen time for Raya and Sisu and less for the misfits. I've never seen Sailor Moon, but from what you're describing, it sounds very similar to what it seems will happen in this film.

Sotiris wrote:Raya here is clearly holding just a fragment of the gem. The entire thing must be huge.

And it's not perfectly cut, so I guess the reason all those fragments exist is that the gem broke into pieces at some point.

Sotiris wrote:If they Ongis belong to the baby that means only four out of the five clans are represented by the outcasts. Unless, Sisu is one of them and my theory that the fifth clan was comprised of dragons is correct.

I suspected the Ongis wouldn't represent a clan since they're animals. Maybe the fifth misfit is Sisu, as you speculate. Or could it be Namari? Perhaps she joins them at the end and is considered part of the group.

Sotiris wrote:Boun seems like the typical cocky male character like Flynn and Maui, Tong the silent brutish character who just grunts, and the Ongis the obligatory comic relief ones who keep making silly jokes or engage in physical comedy.

Personally, I like how varied in age and appearance this group is. And I never would've guessed the Ongis were part fish.

Sotiris wrote:That's intriguing. Perhaps Sisu is hesitant or afraid to go against the Druun at first, but with Raya's help she'll be able to overcome her insecurities and self-doubt. It'd be interesting to see the dynamic between them given the difference in their personalities.

That seems likely. I agree it would be interesting.

unprincess wrote:regarding the Sisu changes, I dont mind that they simplified it, I do think it was a tad busy looking in the concept art but its interesting how mammal like... cat like??? she looks. I wonder if it was an attempt to make her more appealing to girls? I do think I would have liked a little more reptile or fish in her...

Me too. One of the reasons I don't like the new design as much as the old one is that it's not so evident she's a water dragon now.

unprincess wrote:you know, Ive changed my mind, I now prefer her original concept art look more. Its true, now she looks like she was designed for one of those Barbie CGI movies, very cutesy/girly and generic. At first I thought the older concept design was a bit too busy and gaudy looking but I also liked that it was (probably)based on the leafy sea dragon, which would have at least given her a more water creature like appearance. Here's a google link to what the animal looks like (its basically a blinged out seahorse, lol.) I always thought they were cool looking.

https://www.google.com/search?q=leafy+s ... 67&dpr=0.9

I don't think I had seen that animal before. You're right, they're really cool. I think it's possible they took inspiration from it for the old design, as you said.

DisneyFan97 wrote:I guess the cast will be pretty unknown or at least leaser known since i can't think of any Southeast Asian actors or actress that are well known.

Do you think they could get away with casting chiease actress like Lucille Soong Elizabeth Sung or Takayo Fischer in the movie ?

Michelle Yeoh, for example, is from that region, but I think you're right there aren't many actors from there who are well-known in Hollywood. However, since Awkwafina and Kelly Marie Tran are both quite famous, maybe they don't need more well-known actors for the other roles.

Conversation with one of the directors, Carlos López Estrada, and producer Osnat Shurer. They start talking about Raya at this point of the video. They don't reveal much about the movie itself, but Osnat (who, by the way, I didn't know was Israeli) confirms the third female protagonist will be the antagonist. Though if I've understood it correctly, she'll be redeemed at the end, as we suspected. This is what she says in the video:

Osnat Shurer wrote:So that idea of females as strong, full characters. In this case, the dragon, the magical creature, is also a female. And the antagonist, who, let me tell you, is bad-ass. I can't talk much about her yet, but just wait 'till you see some of the martial arts between these two women. Both really capable, both really strong, both with flaws in their thinking, but their heart is in the right place. So, to me, that's super exciting. It shouldn't be groundbreaking, but let me tell you, people, it still is.

Figurine set from Hasbro:




Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/CJB3hktF4eD/

^Are you talking about the character on the left being Naomi? I thought that that was human Sisu?

blackcauldron85 wrote:^Are you talking about the character on the left being Naomi? I thought that that was human Sisu?

I think disneyprincess11 was talking about the post before that one.

By the way, I hadn't noticed the back of the figurine set box gave us a better look at Raya's "axe". It's different from the one in the concept art, isn't it? Maybe she'll use it in the film after all, given that it's even included in this figurine set. And have you noticed the gem in Sisu's "bag"?

unprincess wrote:At first, I thought the older concept design was a bit too busy and gaudy-looking, but I also liked that it was (probably) based on the leafy seadragon, which would have at least given her a more water creature-like appearance. Here's a google link to what the animal looks like (it's basically a blinged-out seahorse.) I always thought they were cool-looking.

I never knew those even existed! Sometimes real creatures look stranger than fantasy ones. I can see how Sisu's previous design might have been influenced by them. I imagine when the vis-dev team started researching dragons, they stumbled upon these little guys.

D82 wrote:Thanks for taking the time to reply to all those things, Sotiris. I was looking forward to knowing your opinion on several of them and it's fun to analyze, discuss and speculate about them with you and everybody else here.

Right back at you!

D82 wrote:Regarding the tail, maybe they changed it to make it more similar to Naga representations such as these

It's possible. I think they might have inspired the horn(s) more than the tail. If they wanted her to look more like Naga they wouldn't have given her legs. The fin at the end of her tail looks quite different too. Not to mention, Sisu has little sails throughout her body whereas these are smooth. I would have preferred if her final design resembled these artistic depictions of Naga more. It would have made Sisu feel more authentic and dragon-like.

D82 wrote:Though, the hair color of Sisu's human form is more similar to the mane of the final dragon design than to the old one, so I'm not completely sure about that.

That's true. I have a feeling the human design of Sisu we saw on the doll packaging is the final one.

D82 wrote:Although, the sword looks very similar to the one his father has in the teaser, so maybe she has inherited it from him. Perhaps what she has stolen in that scene (if that's why the white tribe is after her) is a fragment of the gem or the boat itself.

I hadn't noticed that. Good eye! In that case, I think she might have stolen a fragment of the gem. The boat seems like her means of escape, not the reason they were after her.

D82 wrote:Or at least that there's an end credits song, even if it's not by him.

I'm sure there will be. I don't think there's been a non-musical WDAS film in the last decade without an original end credits song. It will probably be more pop than musical theater, but I hope it can still function as a signature song for Raya. Perhaps, if it's told from her perspective and sung by a female vocalist. I'd hate for her to be the only princess in the DP line-up without a theme song. Even Merida has "Touch the Sky".

D82 wrote:In the following image taken from one of the book covers, the symbols that represent each clan appear. Not all of them match with the ones shown in that shot from the teaser (maybe the cover features an old version of some of them), but there's one that looks like it could represent a dragon; the one on the right.

Nice find! That symbol looks like Sisu and the dot in the middle like the dragon gem.

D82 wrote:That could be an indication that the dragons are one of the clans, as you said. Although, dragons are featured on Raya's green outfit, her sword and the place where Raya trains with her father, so it's also possible they're the symbol of Raya's clan. After all, her tribe seems to have a special connection with dragons as they're responsible for guarding the dragon gem.

You make a good point, but that would mean the misfits aren't representative of the clans.

D82 wrote:I'd like it because that would mean more screen time for Raya and Sisu and less for the misfits.

I think that will be that case. That's not only indicative by the still that was released with Raya sitting in front of Sisu alone, but also by the fact that the two of them will need time to bond. Like with any buddy road trip movie, their relationship is supposed to be central to the story and serve as the emotional core of the narrative. They can't become closer and grow together with all the misfits constantly around. They will need some alone time, away from distractions.

D82 wrote:And it's not perfectly cut, so I guess the reason all those fragments exist is that the gem broke into pieces at some point.

Maybe it was broken during one of the Druun attacks.

D82 wrote:Or could it be Namari? Perhaps she joins them at the end and is considered part of the group.

I doubt Namari is supposed to be part of the group. Even if she joins them at the end, she wasn't part of their journey and their coming together as "found family".

D82 wrote:Conversation with one of the directors, Carlos López Estrada, and producer Osnat Shurer. They start talking about Raya at this point of the video. They don't reveal much about the movie itself, but Osnat (who, by the way, I didn't know was Israeli) confirms the third female protagonist will be the antagonist. Though if I've understood it correctly, she'll be redeemed at the end, as we suspected.

We figured as much. Raya and her will be rivals who'll come to respect and understand each other by the end. The part where she says "flaws in their thinking, but their heart is in the right place" is a dead giveaway she's not a villain, and therefore won't be redeemed in the classic sense, but will come to see Raya's perspective and value. Raya will do the same for her. They'll both realize they need each other and they'll end up leading the clans together at the end.

disneyprincess11 wrote:....dammit, ANOTHER twist villain? Honestly, I thought Namari was going to be the love interest. I'm shocked she's very featured in the merch.

Namari is not going to be a twist villain (or a villain at all, for that matter). She'll be established as an antagonist early on. Let's be real, there was no chance they'd make her Raya's love interest. This is Disney we're talking about. I know they've made progress with LGBT representation, but that much.

D82 wrote:By the way, I hadn't noticed the back of the figurine set box gave us a better look at Raya's "axe". It's different from the one in the concept art, isn't it?

Yes, it looks very different. Is it still supposed to be an axe? It looks nothing like it. In any case, I'm glad she'll be yielding another weapon besides her sword.

D82 wrote:And have you noticed the gem in Sisu's "bag"?

Was there ever any doubt Raya and co. would succeed in tracking down and reassembling the dragon gem?

D82 wrote:

blackcauldron85 wrote:^Are you talking about the character on the left being Naomi? I thought that that was human Sisu?

I think disneyprincess11 was talking about the post before that one.

Thank you-- I'm sorry about that, disneyprincess11!!

DisneyFan09 wrote:Most of them just seem like comic relief that will be grating and off-putting than appealing.

Sotiris wrote:That's highly likely. I already find the Ongis annoying.

Word. But I think the little boy will not be as annoying. Btw, Tong looks like a blend of the thugs from Tangled and the Huns from Mulan.

When I first saw the playset, my first thought (very likely wrong) was that the orb Sisu was carrying might be her egg? And that perhaps the green Dragon Gem will be attached to it or something to turn her back into her original form. I don't know--why would they have two special items like that white orb and the green gem in the same movie?

Images of another Raya doll:


Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/CJJR3zZHKfM/

This doll looks much more like Kelly Marie Tran than the previous ones. I like Raya's more formal top, even though it would have been better if she got new pants and boots to go with it.

I hope Lucille Soong and Takayo Fischer will voice roles in this !

Raya and the Last Dragon has been rated PG for "some violence, action and thematic elements".

D82 wrote:Raya and the Last Dragon has been rated PG for "some violence, action and thematic elements".

Ah, yes, I do love a good theme or two in my Disney movies.

^ I've always thought the use of "thematic elements" in MPAA's classification system was nebulous, confusing, and frankly, useless. There's no way to know what it means unless you've already watched the movie or read a summary of it. In Raya's case, the "thematic element" in question is probably the death of her father.