DVDizzy Forum

Disney's Divinity wrote:I've noticed an increase in the B&tB bashing as well. .

This is nothing more than logical.
There was less B&tB bashing in the past because the film just looked much better back then. The OTV looks stunning.

The saturday morning cartoon look makes all the flaws stand out more, and more prominent, and the viewing experience of the film itself is much more generic and flat now. When I watch the dvd it's almost impossible for me to get into the story. Because of this look the film has lost a lot of quality. Lesser quality is more bashing.
In fact, people watching the film for the first time on dvd have a much more childish/cartoony image of the film. A new look is creating a new image in people's minds, so in years from now many more people have this "adjusted" view on the film. An adjusted film means an adjusted view from audiences.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZzxxBZUD-o

Marky_198 wrote:
This is nothing more than logical.
There was less B&tB bashing in the past because the film just looked much better back then. The OTV looks stunning.

The saturday morning cartoon look makes all the flaws stand out more, and more prominent, and the viewing experience of the film itself is much more generic and flat now. When I watch the dvd it's almost impossible for me to get into the story. Because of the look the film has lost a lot of quality. Lesser quality is more bashing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZzxxBZUD-o

Oh, stop it. The bashing is only recent, and the dvd has been out for 7 years. Just watch the Laserdisc if you want to look at an equally crappy version and stop your moaning.

KubrickFan wrote:
Oh, stop it. The bashing is only recent, and the dvd has been out for 7 years. Just watch the Laserdisc if you want to look at an equally crappy version and stop your moaning.

The laserdisc version is razor sharp and perfect and clear, it also looks very realistic and like a real Disney Classic, so can you please explain why you think it's""crappy"?

And the bashing is going on longer, but strangely enough not in the 10 years before. It happened in the years after the dvd came out.
Of course this happened, people are not crazy. They want to see classics, not Sat.morning cartoons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZzxxBZUD-o

Marky_198 wrote:
The laserdisc version is razor sharp and perfect and clear, it also looks very realistic and like a real Disney Classic, so can you please explain why you think it's""crappy"?

And the bashing is going on longer, but strangely enough not in the 10 years before. It happened in the years after the dvd came out.
Of course this happened, people are not crazy. They want to see classics, not Sat.morning cartoons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZzxxBZUD-o

Razor sharp? Really? Then every one of the caps I've been shown must've been of very low quality . It looks drab, murky and way too soft. Most people would see it, but hey, you think the old Pinocchio looks better too.
The YouTube short really doesn't help either. Oh, and you don't have to post it every time you add a message, gets a bit annoying.

And the general audience doesn't care at all for the changing it into a 'Saturday Morning cartoon'. They're just happy if the film fits their screens.
So if you're not happy with the dvd, then don't watch it. Watch the Laserdisc, for all I care. Just stop bitching about the dvd.

KubrickFan wrote:
Razor sharp? Really? Then every one of the caps I've been shown must've been of very low quality .

Beast_enchantment wrote:Bigger images this time

Remember that the source for the OTV images is not as clear and sharp as the IMAX/DVD source, but we're discussing colours not clarity.


<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n71/ ... comp15.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Just to refresh your memory

Marky said this about the Laserdisc:

The laserdisc version is razor sharp and perfect and clear, it also looks very realistic and like a real Disney Classic

So he thinks it looks very good. The screenshots are establishing my point.

Beast_enchantment wrote:

KubrickFan wrote:
Razor sharp? Really? Then every one of the caps I've been shown must've been of very low quality .

Beast_enchantment wrote:Bigger images this time

Remember that the source for the OTV images is not as clear and sharp as the IMAX/DVD source, but we're discussing colours not clarity.


<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n71/ ... comp15.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Just to refresh your memory

If the colors were a little more darker, the top and bottom not chopped off! the cramming of the lines from the DVD ohh and the edit parts not edit, it would have been a PERFECT DVD release.

But of course, the bitching will get nowhere unless you bitch about it to Disney, themselves. But wait, nobody's doing that. Then why are we all here?

ajmrowland wrote:But of course, the bitching will get nowhere unless you bitch about it to Disney, themselves. But wait, nobody's doing that. Then why are we all here?

lol very true! I think some of us do write to them.

Matt wrote: If the colors were a little more darker, the top and bottom not chopped off! the cramming of the lines from the DVD ohh and the edit parts not edit, it would have been a PERFECT DVD release.

The top and bottom isn't chopped off, it's supposed to be that way. Intended by the directors, remember?

KubrickFan wrote:

Matt wrote: If the colors were a little more darker, the top and bottom not chopped off! the cramming of the lines from the DVD ohh and the edit parts not edit, it would have been a PERFECT DVD release.

The top and bottom isn't chopped off, it's supposed to be that way. Intended by the directors, remember?

Intended or not, it is STILL chopped and we are losing picture.

Matt wrote:

KubrickFan wrote: The top and bottom isn't chopped off, it's supposed to be that way. Intended by the directors, remember?

Intended or not, it is STILL chopped and we are losing picture.

Are you complaining about losing picture with every open matted or super35 film as well? It's not about seeing as much of the image as possible, it's about composition.

KubrickFan wrote: Are you complaining about losing picture with every open matted or super35 film as well? It's not about seeing as much of the image as possible, it's about composition.

Would the Sleeping Beauty aspect ratio complainers please stand up.

Beast_enchantment wrote: Would the Sleeping Beauty aspect ratio complainers please stand up.

That movie was made in 2.55:1 for a release in CinemaScope before Walt Disney changed his mind and made it a Technirama feature. It doesn't have anything to do with what we're discussing here. We were talking about if losing picture is always a bad thing, and it definitely isn't.

KubrickFan, do you have the IMAX trailer somewhere on dvd?
On various dvd's there's a BATB trailer.

They actually used footage of the OTV in that.
Go watch it and then you know what the laserdisc version looks like.
Exactly like that. Stunning.
And it has nothing to do with the look of the dvd version.

laserdiscs don't have anything close to the sharpness or colour capabilities of DVD (never mind Blu-ray). Even a direct CAPS dump on DVD will look nothing like the laserdisc in terms of that format's sheer blurriness alone.

Stick to the laserdisc Marky, or else you'll just get really disappointed.

Rudy Matt wrote:The Rescuers Down Under preceded Beauty and the Beast, and it was stunning. That movie has animation that stomps Beauty and the Beast right through the floor. Beauty and the Beast was an Eisner rush job to get the movie ready to compete with Universal and Spielberg for the third time (An American Tail II). The move needed several weeks to fix, but they had to meet the deadline. I don't blame the animators for the rush job, I blame Eisner. Disney met the release date, and they won the battle with ATII: Fievel Goes West, but now we have to live with the consequences.

I agree with you as far as Eisner's role and the rush job go. The Rescuers Down Under may have had better animation, but was a lousy film overall. They did the first movie's plot again, but this time without appealing characters, good villains, humor, charm, warmth, hearth, passion or anything else that made the original such a great film. So when it comes to all those other points, yes, BatB wins.

Disney's Divinity wrote:I've noticed an increase in the B&tB bashing as well. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any huge B&tB fans here to take up for the movie and balance the hate out anymore (like darth_deeto, etc.). Or maybe the hate is why all the big B&tB fans left? Not that I'd be surprised, because I've noticed B&tB fans tend not to be as strong-minded as TLM fans (which also gets bashing and snide comments all over this forum).

Overall, I think all the princess films get bashed, but B&tB in particular because haters are infuriated that anyone would dare call it the "greatest animated film."

I've always found terms like 'bashing' and 'haters' to be very annoying. These terms imply that the people who are criticizing the film are just doing it for the sake of being negative; don't know what they're talking about; or aren't using real arguments. That's what I think about when reading terms like 'bashing' and 'haters', and I wish it would stop. You don't like anyone's assessment of a certain film? That's fine, but don't pretend these people don't have a rational point. Try to debate them on arguments. You can't just put a label on the people you disagree with in the hope they'll stop criticizing.

(I'm using "you" in a general sense here; I'm not only talking to/about Disney's Divinity.)

I think I already explained in my post that most criticisms of the film have a justification. My point was that the hatred for the film has almost come to the point of being irrational, because people detest the entire film and see nothing good with it. Regardless of whether you see flaws in the film (most of which are also subjective), simultaneously invalidating the good is just pessimistic and would, imo, be called "bashing." Which, I thought, was the meaning of the word. Sorry that certain words also count as labels.

And I don't know that I'm even debating--my feelings for B&tB are neither here nor there. I'm just reflecting on the overall mood I get from the forum these days.

Yeah, 50GB would allow all three versions of the film to fit comfortably without seamless branching, as each should take an estimated 15 gigs, give or take.

But I think it's already been confirmed that the IMAX version will still be included. I think it's been confirmed in another thread on this site, actually.