DVDizzy Forum

Disney Duster wrote:

TheSequelofDisney wrote:Though I have heard most of the Elphie's sing, I cannot completely remember them. I do know, however, that Idina Menzel is my favorite Elphie. She has awesome talent and I believe that she is the best Elphaba. She was the one chosen to play the role, therefore the best for the job. I hate how people keep on saying Bean was perfect for the part and that Idina kept her from playing the role. That makes me upset! Idina was/is the best for the role. Anyway, my favorite Galinda/Glinda is definitely Kristin Chenoweth. She made that role come alive and she was the only person who could have played that role.

Wait a minute, so you haven't seen the show yet...and you heard all the Elphie's sing? Do you mean by audio rips or youtube videos?


Anyway, have you seen it yet TheSequelofDisney?

And as for those who think Shoshana Bean is the best Elphaba, are you sure it's not just because of the way she plays with the notes and riffs so much? Because some people prefer riffing and singing many notes fast instead of singing fewer notes (the correct, written notes). That doesn't mean she has a voice you like better, she just sings in a way you like better.

I'm pretty sure I've seen most of them on YouTube (I've seen at least 6 or 7). No, I haven't seen the show; I'm hoping to early next year when the tour comes to Cincinnati. I agree with your statement about Bean. I personally don't like how she changes the notes with her riffs; that's why I hate it when people say that she is the best. I think Eden sort of did something like Bean in the way she sang that's why she isn't one of my favorites either.

Right, in January or February you'll be seeing it. What a wait!

But when I was talking about people thinking Shoshana Bean's voice was better for the part, I was saying it must be because they love riffing, but the riffing isn't the actual voice, it's the way it's sung. Anyway, I don't mind a little riffing, and Eden Espinosa, as I said, is one of my favorites, perhaps my second favorite. Her Defying Gravity's Ahhhh is more like Oh oh oh oh ohhhhh, and it's my favorite of all the ahhhhs. But I also think she just sings better than Idina and she just sounds more like a mature Elphaba. Idina's voice can sound childish! Though her high pitch is good for the Wicked Witch's shreiks and cackles. It's had for me to decide who is better, Eden or Idina.

But Kerry Ellis all the way for singing and acting the best! Although my thinking her acting is better could just come from her britishness. The English are more controlled, refined, proper...mature...powerful. If you listen to her fight with Glinda maybe you can tell what I mean:

Witch Fight!

Now, I know that Kerry's cackle after she's slapped sucks, but I read se got way better with it. Notice how as far as acting, Kerry rocks as Elphaba, especially compared to Glinda. For comparisons to Idina, I dunno, check back a page for the whole musical posted on Google Video. Here.

And Idina's cackle being better doesn't count.

Well i actually think Idina's childish quality to her voice is good for the part.

Since the play is supposed to show Elphaba in a sympathetic light and not as some evil villian, I feel a sweeter, child like voice is better. Then if Elphie was to be played with a stronger, deeper, mature voice

You have a point about the sympathetic light and childish voice, but in the book Elphaba was a very strong, brooding, deep character, that might do things considered wicked if they would in reality end up doing some good for a greater cause. If you're a deep and mature person, your voice will probably reflect that. And one of my problems with the musical is even though they do a little questioning of what is good or what is evil, it's more like they say Elphaba's wickedness was all a lie. But in the book it wasn't that simple. Elphaba actually tried to assisinate Madame Morrible! But that was because Morrible was Horrible and capable of far worse things to all of Oz. So the book questioned "what is good, what is evil?", while the musical more questioned "who is good, who is evil?"

But I still think the musical did a good enough job for me to still like it and still fit in with the more important themes of the book.

Here's an interview with Gregory McGuire, who wrote Wicked, and his opinions on the msuic and lyrics of Wicked the musical: The author of Wicked actually likes the musical.

<center>

Wicked
George Gershwin Theatre: October 30, 2003 - Present



Original Broadway Cast (Alphabetical):

Cristy Candler as the Witch's Mother
Kristin Chenoweth as Glinda
Michelle Federer as Nessarose
Christopher Fitzgerald as Boq
Joel Grey as The Wonderful Wizard of Oz
Manuel Herrera as Chistery
Norbert Leo Butz as Fiyero
Sean McCourt as the Witch's Father/Ozian Official
Idina Menzel as Elphaba
Jan Neuberger as the Midwife
Carole Shelley as Madame Morrible
William Youmans as Doctor Dillamond

Opening Night

Tony Awards/Today Show

Song List:

Act 1
No One Mourns The Wicked
Dear Old Shiz
The Wizard and I
What Is This Feeling?
Something Bad
Dancing Through Life
Popular
I'm Not That Girl
The Wizard and I (Reprise)
One Short Day
A Sentimental Man
Defying Gravity

Act 2
No One Mourns The Wicked (Reprise)
Thank Goodness
The Wicked Witch of the East
Wonderful
I'm Not That Girl (Reprise)
As Long As You're Mine
No Good Deed
March of the Witch Hunters
For Good
Finale

Broadway Elphaba Replacement History: (Left To Right)
<table width="75%" border="1"><tr><td width="35%">Idina Menzel</td><td width="35%">Shoshana Bean</td><td width="35%">Eden Espinosa</td></tr><tr><td>Ana Gasteyer</td><td>Julia Murney<td>----------</td></table>

Broadway Galinda/Glinda Replacement History: (Left To Right)
<table width="75%" border="1"><tr><td width="35%">Kristin Chenoweth</td><td width="35%">Jennifer Laura Thompson</td><td width="35%">Megan Hilty</td></tr><tr><td>Kate Reinders</td><td>Kendra Kassebaum<td>----------</td></table>

Synopsis:

Long before Dorothy dropped in, two other girls meet in the Land of Oz. One, born with emerald-green skin, is smart, fiery and misunderstood. The other is beautiful, ambitious and very popular. How these two unlikely friends end up as the Wicked Witch of the West and Glinda the Good Witch makes for the most spellbinding new musical in years.

Wicked is a Tony award-winning American musical produced by Universal Pictures with music and lyrics by Stephen Schwartz, and a book by Winnie Holzman. The story is loosely based on the best selling novel Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West by Gregory Maguire. The musical is directed by Joe Mantello, with musical staging by Wayne Cilento.

The musical, following Maguire's novel, is a re-imagining of L. Frank Baum's classic story, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz from the point of view of the witches of Oz, set mostly prior to Dorothy's arrival from Kansas. The plot also makes several references to the classic 1939 film.
(Wikipedia.org)

Reception:

Despite receiving mixed reviews from critics, Wicked's business and popularity dramatically boomed due to very good word-of-mouth. Viewers and performers alike have praised the show for its ability to resonate with a number of demographics with its central themes regarding women, camaraderie, and societal standards, while others merely credit the show's success to the popularity that already surrounds The Wizard of Oz.

Wicked was nominated for ten Tony Awards, including Best Musical. It subsequently lost that award along with the Tony Awards for best score and best book to another new musical of the season, Avenue Q. The show's biggest win came when Menzel was named Best Actress in a Musical, and the musical received two additional Tony awards: Eugene Lee winning for Tony Award for Best Scenic Design and Susan Hilferty winning for Tony Award for Best Costume Design. The cast recording received the Grammy Award for Best Musical Show Album in 2005 and was certified platinum by the RIAA on November 30, 2006.

With a $14 million capitalization, Wicked earned back its entire initial investment by December 21, 2004. In its first year it grossed more than $56 million. The show, which is open-ended, has been playing to capacity crowds for almost every recent performance and grosses more than a million dollars every week according to Playbill.com's weekly grosses. In the week ending January 1, 2006, it was announced that Wicked had broken the record for the highest weekly box office gross in Broadway history, with $1,610,934; a record that was previously held by The Producers. Wicked broke its own record in the week ending November 26, 2006, when it grossed a total of $1,715,155. The Broadway company of Wicked celebrated its 1000th performance on March 23, 2006.
(Wikipedia.org)

Reviews:

"WICKED works because it has something Broadway musicals, so addicted to facetiousness and camp, have largely given up on: a story that adults can take seriously. Adapted by Winnie Holzman from the 1995 novel by Gregory Maguire, the musical reimagines a children's tale in grown-up psychopolitical terms a lot more successfully than, say Stephen Sondheim and James Lapine did for 'Into The Woods'. As the Wizard (Joel Grey) puts it, "The best way to bring folks together is to give them a really good enemy." Imagine: a family musical that might make the Bush Administration squirm. Which isn't to say WICKED, under Joe Mantello's assured direction, lacks funs. The show gets laughs by playing off famous bits from the movie. It also provides a showcase for two fabulous Broadway stars. Kristin Chenoweth, the Kewpie doll who won a Tony for 'You're a Good Man, Charlie Brown,' is a perfect delight as Glinda. In the tougher role of Elphaba, Idina Menzel is possibly even better, a mix of vulnerability and feminist passion, with a rock voice to raise the roof. With an awful lot of plot to establish, the show drags in spots. But IF EVERY MUSICAL HAD A BRAIN, A HEART AND THE COURAGE OF WICKED, BROADWAY REALLY WOULD BE A MAGICAL PLACE."
- Richard Zoglin, Time Magazine

"HOORAY! BROADWAY'S GOT A BIG NEW MUSICAL THAT'S GOOD ENOUGH TO RUN FOR A DECADE OR TWO! If it doesn't please you, you're too tough to please. It's funny and touching and full of beans (not to mention child-friendly). Kristin Chenoweth finally has a full-fledged star part that's worthy of her. Broadway buffs have been waiting for her to land a bona fide star part in a successful show. Well, this is it. She sings like a cherub and acts like a damned good actress, and Stephen Schwartz has written her a show-stopping comic turn. I can't imagine anyone in the world have done a better job as Glinda. It's going to make her a star right this minute. Idina Menzel nails her co-starring part with equal aplomb. Not only does she look great in green, but she blends pathos and warmth in just the right proportions. Joel Grey, bless him, is back on stage. Stephen Schwartz has given us the most poignant new Broadway ballad to come along in ages. Wayne Cilento has choreographed with dapper precision -- this show moves. You'll be enchanted by director Joe Mantello and set designer Eugene Lee's miraculously elaborate-looking Kingdom of Oz. GO!"
- Terry Teachout, The Wall Street Journal

Awards & Nominations:

2004 Tony Awards (10 Nominations, 3 Wins)

Kristin Chenoweth and Idina Menzel in a performance for the 2004 Tony Awards Best Musical
Best Book of a Musical (Winnie Holzman)
Best Leading Actress in a Musical (Idina Menzel) WINNER
Best Leading Actress in a Musical (Kristin Chenoweth)
Best Original Score (Stephen Schwartz)
Best Scenic Design (Eugene Lee) WINNER
Best Costume Design (Susan Hilferty) WINNER
Best Lighting Design (Kenneth Posner)
Best Choreography (Wayne Cilento)
Best Orchestrations (William David Brohn)

2004 Drama Desk Awards (11 Nominations, 6 Wins)

Outstanding Musical WINNER
Outstanding Director of a Musical (Joe Mantello) WINNER
Outstanding Book of a Musical (Winnie Holzman) WINNER
Outstanding Lead Actress in a Musical (Idina Menzel)
Outstanding Lead Actress in a Musical (Kristin Chenoweth)
Outstanding Music (Stephen Schwartz)
Outstanding Lyrics (Stephen Schwartz) WINNER
Outstanding Set Design (Eugene Lee) WINNER
Outstanding Costume Design (Susan Hilferty) WINNER
Outstanding Light Design (Kenneth Posner)
Outstanding Orchestrations (William David Brohn)

2004 Outer Critics Circle Awards (10 Nominations, 4 Wins)

Outstanding Broadway Musical WINNER
Outstanding Director of a Musical (Joe Mantello) WINNER
Outstanding Actress in a Musical (Idina Menzel)
Outstanding Actress in a Musical (Kristin Chenoweth)
Outstanding Featured Actor in a Musical (Joel Grey)
Outstanding Featured Actress in a Musical (Carole Shelley)
Outstanding Set Design (Eugene Lee) WINNER
Outstanding Costume Design (Susan Hilferty) WINNER
Outstanding Lighting Design (Kenneth Posner)
Outstanding Choreography (Wayne Cilento)

2004 Drama League Awards (3 Nominations, 1 Win)

Outstanding Production of a Musical WINNER
Distinguished Performance (Idina Menzel)
Distinguished Performance (Kristin Chenoweth)

2004 Eddy Awards (1 Win)

Outstanding Costume Design (Susan Hilferty) WINNER

2005 Grammy Awards (1 Win)

Best Musical Show Album WINNER

2006 Helen Hayes Awards (3 Nominations, 1 Win)

Outstanding Non-Resident Production
Outstanding Lead Actress, Non-Resident Production (Stephanie J. Block) WINNER
Outstanding Lead Actress, Non-Resident Production (Kendra Kassebaum)

2006 Jefferson Awards (5 Nominations)

Outstanding Production - Musical
Outstanding Director - Musical (Joe Mantello)
Outstanding Actress in a Principal Role - Musical (Ana Gasteyer)
Outstanding Actress in a Principal Role - Musical (Kate Reinders)
Outstanding Actress in a Supporting Role - Musical (Rondi Reed)

2006 Touring Broadway Awards (3 Wins)

Best New Musical WINNER
Best Musical Score (Stephen Schwartz) WINNER
Best Production Design (Eugene Lee, Susan Hilferty, Kenneth Posner) WINNER

2007 WhatsOnStage.com Theatregoers Choice Awards (4 Wins)

Best Actress in a Musical (Idina Menzel) WINNER
Best Supporting Actress in a Musical (Miriam Margolyes) WINNER
Superbreak Best New Musical WINNER
Best Set Designer (Eugene Lee) WINNER

2007 Laurence Olivier Awards (4 Nominations)

Best Director (Joe Mantello)
Best Lighting Design (Kenneth Posner)
Best Set Design (Eugene Lee)
Best Costume Design (Susan Hilferty)

Offical Websites:
Broadway
Chicago
Los Angeles
National US Tour
United Kingdom
Germany
Japan
Australia</center>

Did we really need another thread to discuss "Wicked?" I mean, of all the Broadway shows, why the one that already has a five page thread?

Any discussion of Wicked should really take place in the already existing and quite "Popular" thread.

http://www.ultimatedisney.com/forum/vie ... ght=wicked

I've merged the threads together. Awesome info, TSOD! Thanks for the effort you put into it.

-Aaron

I've recently downloaded a version of Defying Gravity sung by Eden Espinosa, and I didn't like it very much. Sometimes she would say a word like "instincts" and it would really annoy me because it was like a pause in the song that was uneeded (imo). Sometimes it seemed like she wasn't hitting notes or pitches, it all around wasn't too good especially near the end it seemed too grainy/raspy at some points. I did notice what Disney Duster was saying about the Ahhhs and Ohhhhs. However when I listened to Idina Menzel, wow that was so much better. I loved how she sings it, it's consistent singing, she never said or half-sung words like Eden which made it flow better.

So far I've only really heard Defying Gravity, I have read the book which I loved. Hopefully the theater group here could try and put it on somehow but that's doubtful.

Well, Chernabog Rocks, thank you so much for giving Eden a try! I must ask, did you listen to an audio recording of Eden from a live show, and then listen to Idina from the Original Cast Recording? Because on the cast recording, the actors are more inclined to sing the songs instead of, well, act them. Eden might have been saying some of the words to act them instead of just sing them, though people can act and emote while singing, of course! Also, by saying some of the words, in intersperses the singing with the spoken dialogue, kind of blending them together. But it's your preference, and personally, I do prefer the whole song to be sung, like you.

Also, Idina was able to try and try again to get the best sound out for the Original Cast Recording. She was able to prepare herself for each song, drink water and make sure she was rested before she came in to sing, and she was able to do multiple takes. Also, the computer can be used to fix anything in the singing. But Eden did not get to do any of that, unless there's some official recording of her that's NOT LIVE that you listened to? But non of the LIVE recordings of Idina I've heard have really matched the Original Cast Recording version. Especially her Ahhh. Her Ahhh sounds bad to me in almost every live recording I've heard of her.

The Idina version I've heard is (I'm assuming) a live version simply because you can hear the odd cough here and there, as well as people cheering and clapping at the end. The Eden version I heard was more than likely from a t.v show of some kind, the only music playing is a piano. Aside from that a verse was added in about halfway through and all the spoken parts were removed to shorten it.

^I know which audio you're talking about for the Eden one. I think it had something to do with Seth Rudesky but I can't remember for sure...

If you like Idina, you should listen to her November 25th, 2006 audio of Defying Gravity. It's amazing, personally I think it's her best one.

^I've been looking for it, but all I get is a huge list of songs not even related to Wicked or Idina Menzel

^
here's a link for it! enjoy!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ar1gDDrBZ_U

Well, if Idina always sang as well as in that clip, then maybe she would be my second favorite instead of Eden! I'll have to do some more Youtube watching.

Chernabog Rocks, I listened to that piano version (with the pink background) and I thought that was horrible compared to what Eden usually sounds like! Thankfully, that's the only time I've ever heard her sound like that. I ask you, would you please look at two way better samples of her? The weird thing is, I don't think Eden Ohhhhed in that piano one, so I don't know how you heard it, but she does in these:

Eden's Oh oh oh oh oh so good Defying Gravity 1

Eden's Oh oh oh oh oh so good Defying Gravity 2

Speaking of Eden... If you will be offended by criticism don't read...

She apparently has never had a voice lesson and you can tell in Wicked. She sounds like she gets nasaly a lot, and some of her high notes are so screechy. Her acting is also pretty weird. It's ok, but it's not my favorite interpretation of Elphaba.


She's good or she wouldn't have gotten the part, but in my opinion, she isn't THAT good.

I actually liked her better as a standby than when she took over. She started riffing to much and got more and more screechy it seems like. I don't mind all riffing, but with her it's to much, along with Shoshana.

Yes, that pink background version is on my mp3 player.

I did notice what Cierra Dancer meant about the screeching in the second clip I believe it was. I think Eden has a sooooo much potential and I'm sure she has such a great voice, but I don't think this song is showing just how talented she is. Sometimes it seems a bit forced and raspy, I noticed it mainly because I do that too But I do see why you like her so much Disney Duster.

^What did you think of the November 25th audio?


Disney Duster, have you heard Eden in Brooklyn? She is great in that, much better than she is in Wicked.

Well, Cierra_Dancer, I also heard that Idina Menzel never had any vocal training either, and everyone said her technique is bad, which is why she sounds bad in a lot of live audio clips. I've heard lots of bad Idina ones, and only one bad Eden one (the piano one), but I could just be harder on Idina because she's considered the best. If everyone says Eden gets nasaly, and it's what I'm thinking of, then maybe I like her nasalness. I never thought of her acting as weird, just too big and showy in some spots, but I can see what you mean, and Idina did seem to have a more solemn, quiet character (at least unil she goes crazy towards the end over the shoes), but just the fact that Eden sounds more mature I think she's better for the part. Also, in the MGM movie, the Witch did screech, and so perhaps the screeching is right for this part. She definately sounds like Margaret Hamilton's witch to me when she says, "And I'll match them in renown." Also, she makes more curled fingers and such movements like the witch. And remember, this is based heavily on the MGM version, even more so than the novel.

But like I said, it's hard for me to choose who I prefer. They both have good points and bad points! And I will also agree I don't like a lot of riffing, just a little. And we have to remember, these actresses often change how they sing and act their parts!

I will admit Idina sounded the closest to the Original Cast Recording, or at least her best, in that November audio. It had a good Ahhhh! As for Eden in Brooklyn, I watched a "Once Upon A Time" video of her and it bothered me to see her not being Elphaba. Ha. Yea, she sang great here, but I'm not into the singers themselves. I won't go out and buy her or Idina's CD's. I just want them as Elphaba!

Chernabog_Rocks wrote:But I do see why you like her so much Disney Duster.

Thanks! Well, truth be told, I have some bias from her being the one I saw on Broadway. What I remember from that show was that her singing was great but I thought a lot of the acting was cheezy or too big, as in over-acting. So I think I'm liking Idina more now, I just wish she'd sing more like on the Original Cast Recording and work on her second act. And also not sound like a child so much. And be more mature...