DVDizzy Forum

To T/P Fan regarding Climate Change/Ozone:

The Ozone layer is recovering because, on the whole, CFCs have been banned and no longer manufactured. It was CFCs not exhaust emissions which were supposedly responsible for the Ozone layer hole.

As for Climate Change, I'm not 100% convinced. After all, throughout history we've had climate change. But most scientists who study the weather and/or chemistry seem to agree, and those who don't all seem to get funding from major oil companies. So I'm 90%+ convinced there's something in it.

Besides Climate Change isn't just Hurricanes, it's lots of change all over the world. And records show Africa is experiencing it now, and it will get much worse. Especially unfair when Africa contribues less greenhouse gasses to the atmosphere than any other country.
http://www.scidev.net/ms/climate_africa ... pageid=476

Climate Change is happening. The only debate is why. And Climate Change will result in much more death, suffering, chaos than Terrorism ever will. Why is it always ignored.

Anyhow, you can't be saying pollution is a good idea can you? Even if you take away climate change, think of all the cancer, brain damage, poisoning etc caused by pollution.

To Disney Duster:
Yep, I'm sure all those people in Africa likely to die in the next 50 years, or at the best have to endure decades of suffering - THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN are happy as campers that everything will be different in Heaven. Same with the various victims of Earthquakes, Tsunamis or floods

As for having to earn a place in heaven, what do most people in the priviledged West have to do to earn a place? Give a few dollars/pounds to charity every year? Buy FairTrade goods? Just think about the less well off every now and then?

Sorry, but no argument on potential status in an (unlikely) afterlife is going to win an argument about mankind's suffering at the hands of God (if God exists) with me.

castleinthesky wrote:And a large amount say "Oh my God", yet they don't believe in God.

Please don't tell me I'm supposed to take something like this seriously. It's a figure of speech. Some people also say "damn you". Do they mean it? Hell no...

Spongebob Squarepants wrote:Also Aithiests say they don't believe in God, well why do they make such a big deal about taking God out of In God We Trust? Why should that offend them if they don't believe in God?

It shouldn't offend atheists, I definitely agree. I've actually never heard of people arguing over the "god" bit in the phrase "In God We Trust", so that's a first for me. Just like religious fanatics contribute absoloutely no good to society, I think it goes both ways. It's a shame to see people of both sides trying to force their beliefs either way.

Disney-Fan wrote:

castleinthesky wrote:And a large amount say "Oh my God", yet they don't believe in God.

Please don't tell me I'm supposed to take something like this seriously. It's a figure of speach. Some people also say "damn you". Do they mean it? Hell no...

Yes, you are supposed to take that seriously. If you don't you're ignorant.

castleinthesky wrote:Yes, you are supposed to take that seriously. If you don't you're ignorant.

Care to elaborate? (Seeing as I'm so ignorant and all) How does saying "oh my god" despite not believing in one have anything to do with this argument? It's a figure of speech. Not many people actually mean it when they say it.

castleinthesky wrote:Yes, you are supposed to take that seriously. If you don't you're ignorant.

Well, then I've met over 100,000 really ignorant people throughout the course of my life. I agree with Disney-Fan, it's just a figure of speech. It's only blasphemy if the person means it.

Listen, I'm going to just say something about the "oh my god" debate. Even when I was a rather strong Christian (however, I was no way a fundamentalist and I didn't believe in the homophobic beliefs and also some of the sexual beliefs), I never considered saying "oh my god" to be blasphemous. It was just an expression that slipped off my tongue, and I was by no means trying to upset God. And that was my religious philosophy. You can think differently if you want, but seriously, we're all over the age of 13 here and subsequently should all think what we want to think so long as it doesn't get too extremist/evil.

This is what is beginning to annoy me. People here cannot seem to remember that everyone's entitled to their own opinion and that nobody's going to think exactly like them. Ignoranace to this is what causes prejudeces. And history and especially current events proves that prejudeces are causers of pain. Only when truly needless hate comes in should arguments arise. Different religions and opinions suit different people. Just follow this idea, and I seriously believe that life will be better for you (hey, but you can disagree if you want, as it's only my opinion).

For some reason people want to change "In God We Trust" and the Pledge of Aliegance; but yet, they will say "Oh my God", because it is a "figure of speech". Talk about being hypocritical.

Lazario wrote:Well, then I've met over 100,000 really ignorant people throughout the course of my life.

You've met a lot of people, man.

-Aaron

As far as I'm concerned, my opinion doesn't affect anyone else, and why should it? I have my own views on religion, but I'm not going to rubbish it infront of any of it's followers, because It wont achieve anything but disgruntled members, and what is the point in that?

AwallaceUNC wrote:

Lazario wrote:Well, then I've met over 100,000 really ignorant people throughout the course of my life.

You've met a lot of people, man.

-Aaron

no kidding eh, and they apparently all said "oh my God" when he met them

Dang it! I was away for a week in Berlin...I didn't think I'd almost trigger World War III on UD with the creation of this thread!

As a reply to Disney Duster, I think it's perfectly alright to debate on this thread. It's not just about the poll.

Just make sure it's not abusive.

So...I've tried to read most of these 5 pages. The problem is that I've read so much stuff, that I don't know what to say. I'd like to share my opinion, but I'm not in the mood to do so. Maybe next time...

Julian Carter wrote:Dang it! I was away for a week in Berlin...

This is going to sound really shocking, but so was I!

I am Wiccan. I practice white/Titania's Magick. Animist was the closet, but not the same. To be more specific, I am an Eclectic Wiccan also known as a Solitary Witch. I belong to no coven.

Wicca is a pagan religious. It is the belief in both God and Goddess. And it is an earth based religion. Wiccans are very in tune with nature and seek to protect it.

I was raised in a Christian household, but my parents have never been ones to judge harshly on other religions. When I came out of the "broom closet" so to speak to my mom, she wasn't happy, but she was open. She read a few of my books and saw what the religion was all about. She is still a Christian, but she often will stick up for Wiccans when someone says something bad about them.

My religion aside, I don't think harshly on others. Many of my friends are Christian, athiest, Jewish, and Wiccan. We get along all just fine. We do tend to keep religion out of our daily volcabularies to one another. I am starting to date a Christian now and he knows what I am and shrugged about it, so that was my first indication, this might just work. I never try to change someone. I am not recruiting anyone because I am happy. I feel I have no right to tell someone my belief is correct. I often put my feelings on this into this analogy...

A 7 year old believes there is a Santa. Forget the fact that they've never seen a flying reindeer or that all the Santas at every mall and event look and sound a little different. They don't sit there and nit pick every detail that doesn't match up. Why? Because in their heart there IS a Santa Claus. No one can tell them different at that moment in time. No rationalization could sway them to think otherwise. They tell Santa what they want and he delivers.

Now look at one person from each religion and ask them, "Why do your believe in _____?" and they will often tell you, "He/She is all around them." They look at a tree and see their God/ess...or evolution if that be the case. No one can tell them differently. No book, explaination, or theory will sway them...because in their heart, they know what is true and right...for THEM and them ALONE. They are HAPPY in their religion and I don't plan to change that for anyone.

Wonderlicious wrote:

Julian Carter wrote:Dang it! I was away for a week in Berlin...

This is going to sound really shocking, but so was I!

WHOA!! We had such an opportunity to possibly meet each other and we didn't know it! I might not go abroad again for years! This was my first time!

Where were you staying? I was staying in a youth hostel in a part of Berlin called "Wedding". It rained and it was cloudy, but yesterday (Saturday) was sunny. Yesterday, I was at the zoo.

This is amazing! If we were both at Berlin simulatneously, then you were geographically the closest UDer to me, as I'm pretty sure by now, that there's no other Maltese UDer on this forum. (If there is please show yourself. ).

AwallaceUNC wrote:You've met a lot of people, man.

That I certainly have. But that's not an estimation of how many people I've met and gotten to know somewhat. Because I've met a lot more than that number.

PatrickvD wrote:and they apparently all said "oh my God" when he met them

Ha. No, they didn't. However, I have heard over 3,000 roughly, who have said that in my presence. Over 1,000 more have had this similar discussion and admitted to it, some more have admitted to it in groups. Then, count the atheists I've known and met. I've been to both religious meetings (I've had a lot of very diverse friends in my life, some have had prayer circles - this was before I came out, though I think they always knew I am gay) and just in places where believers of varied orientations, agnostic, atheists, and pagans have been together and they talk about this a lot- trying to decide what is and isn't blasphemy. And this, all before I started working - and I've been working for 6 years, so I've had one hell of a life. My life could very easily be compared to a sideshow - I've just been one of those people who has seen and heard and been exposed to so much, so almost nothing and everything is normal at the same time. But anyway, count up all the atheists, agnostics, and such that I've met, add that to the people I've heard and heard admit they say "oh my God" and very-like quasi-blasphemous phrases, and 100,000 is a very safe number.

Julian Carter wrote:WHOA!! We had such an opportunity to possibly meet each other and we didn't know it! I might not go abroad again for years! This was my first time!

Where were you staying?

I was staying on Invalidenstrasse in the district of Mitte in a small hotel cum appartments complex. It was only a small stroll from Bernaustrasse, which was a street split off by the former wall, and not far from local tram and train (both underground and outdoor) stations as well as a few bus stops that practically could get one to anywhere in Berlin. We went on a walking tour that started off by the zoo train station (well, it didn't truly start until Hackescher Markt, which was pretty cool at night) and finished in some square that I can't remember the name of now. It was really interesting to find out all about the city's history, going past the Brandenburg gate, the Great Dome Cathedral, the Holocaust memorial and a recreation of Checkpoint Charlie. Our guide was actually somebody who as a child, lived in West Berlin during the fall of the wall, and she described what she could remember of the glorious event. We also went up the Reichstag on Wednesday night, which was lovely, and walked numerous times down the gorgeous Unter den Linden street (which apparently, before the end of the Cold War, was rather desolate, unlike today). In addition to that, we went to the Rembrandt exhibition and the Film museum in Potsdamer Platz, where I read and understood a lot of the German annecdotes posted around the place (whenever I needed help, I looked at the English translations underneath ). For my university course, I'll end up studying for six months in a German speaking country, and I hope that I can go to Berlin again...

Oh, and did you go up the TV tower?

Siren wrote:A 7 year old believes there is a Santa. Forget the fact that they've never seen a flying reindeer or that all the Santas at every mall and event look and sound a little different. They don't sit there and nit pick every detail that doesn't match up. Why? Because in their heart there IS a Santa Claus. No one can tell them different at that moment in time. No rationalization could sway them to think otherwise. They tell Santa what they want and he delivers.

Now look at one person from each religion and ask them, "Why do your believe in _____?" and they will often tell you, "He/She is all around them." They look at a tree and see their God/ess...or evolution if that be the case. No one can tell them differently. No book, explaination, or theory will sway them...because in their heart, they know what is true and right...for THEM and them ALONE. They are HAPPY in their religion and I don't plan to change that for anyone.

This is perhaps the smartest thing I've read in the entire thread. Good job, Siren!

Escapay

Wow, thanks Escapay

2099net wrote:Climate Change is happening. The only debate is why. And Climate Change will result in much more death, suffering, chaos than Terrorism ever will. Why is it always ignored.

And the Earth is doing that because, well... it's planet Earth!

Climate has been changing since the beginning of time. But if you ask me, it's absolutely ludacris to believe:

1. Earth can be/is in danger because of it
2. We're responsible for both creating it and stopping it

Anyhow, you can't be saying pollution is a good idea can you?

Never did I say this. Pollution IS bad for several reasons. But I don't see a need to fix it because on global warming, because once again, climate change will happen with or without pollution. Once again, the democratic party wants to blame everything on the republicans for this "global warming". I say, if they believe in the BS, why don't they do it themselves and stop forcing people to do so? They're probably too busy driving somewhere, and doesn't that CAUSE pollution?

I don't know to much about Ann Coulter and haven't read the article that Joe mentioned, but I think that on whole she believes that Earth will eventually heal itself, which I definitely believe. I mean it's MUCH more creditable than Al Gore's "we're all going to die within the next 10 years" theory.

Even if you take away climate change, think of all the cancer, brain damage, poisoning etc caused by pollution.

What? How can pollution do that? Are you referring by breathing gasoline or smog? I guess one political party have never driven cars in their lives.

TPF, this is getting way off topic, but its not just Gore and the Democrats blaming pollution on Climate Change, its basically the whole world and over 97% of scientists... including G W Bush (however, I get the feeling he does so reluctantly) and even the Pentagon.

I agree the climate has always changed - so let's for your argument assume its natural climate change happening now. We still need to build up defences, prepare for less food crops and we absolutely have to do something to help countries which will be most affected such as Africa. Or do we just let them all die?

But we don't. Instead we have, "Christian" countries, ruled by "Christians" who spend all the money on arms and weapons, or decide to create a near panic in their citizens about terrorism at every opportunity.