DVDizzy Forum

Candy-Bonita95 wrote:

Sotiris wrote:^I'm saying that although there may have been story issues with the latest hand-drawn incarnation of the film, I believe the primary reason of its cancellation was the genre and the medium. The fact that the movie was re-tooled by the same team in a short amount of time (and was CG-fied) means that the story problems were solvable but they weren't given the opportunity to deal with them back then since the project was shelved by management.

I've said something like this earlier in this thread.

But if there was story problems,what were they?The religious themes?The focus on the female character Gerda?Suitable material for the target audience?Can we sneak into the studios to find previous editions of the project?

Whenever I hear a movie is having story problems i don't think in terms of what they think the target demo wants or should be allowed to see. Even if that plays a part of it. My first assumption is usually just a simple matter of connecting various ends. Maybe they have a solid beginning, middle and a rough ending, but when it came to connecting each one to each other continuity issues started to surface forcing them to rethink a large majority of the film. Its like any puzzle really. You might thinkj you have the right pieces in place, until you get further along and it starts to feel more and more unsolvable and you just want to scrap the whole thing and start fresh.

Kyle wrote:

Candy-Bonita95 wrote: I've said something like this earlier in this thread.

But if there was story problems,what were they?The religious themes?The focus on the female character Gerda?Suitable material for the target audience?Can we sneak into the studios to find previous editions of the project?

Whenever I hear a movie is having story problems i don't think in terms of what they think the target demo wants or should be allowed to see. Even if that plays a part of it. My first assumption is usually just a simple matter of connecting various ends. Maybe they have a solid beginning, middle and a rough ending, but when it came to connecting each one to each other continuity issues started to surface forcing them to rethink a large majority of the film. Its like any puzzle really. You might thinkj you have the right pieces in place, until you get further along and it starts to feel more and more unsolvable and you just want to scrap the whole thing and start fresh.

Like what happened with Glen Keane's version of Rapunzel?

If that's what happened with Rapunzel, sure. Though I didn't have any specific movie in mind. I just think this is what happens to the majority of unfinished screen plays. So many things have to be thought about just to get it all functioning.

What I've heard about Glen's Rapunzel from various sources (including The Art of Tangled) is that it was dark, mature, dry, straight-forward and lacked humour and fun.

Lnds500 wrote:my anticipation for this has plummeted in the recent weeks.
Frozen, CG. meh... we've only had 2 Disney hand-drawn films after Lasseter stepped in. Howard and Clements are quite possibly the only ones who really care in there to create 2D movies.

Apparently, it would seem that way since everyone else at Disney besides John and Ron are only ones there who aren't anti-2D buttfaces.

Glen's Rapunzel was in developmental hell for so many years, I cant imagine the only hang up was on how dark and humourless it was. While I did hear another part of it was that Glen couldn't lock down the look he wanted, I still have a feeling that story issues like I described are what took them so take that big step forward into something resembling what we ended up with.

DisneyJedi wrote:Apparently, it would seem that way since everyone else at Disney besides John and Ron are only ones there who aren't anti-2D buttfaces.

Good lord, shut up. A film isn't good because of what genre it is, or whether it has hand-drawn or CGI animation, or whether or not it features princesses and songs; a film is good because of the inherent quality of story, characters, acting, and to much lesser extents, visuals and music. It won't fucking matter to me if The Snow Queen is CGI or hand-drawn, musical or non-musical, faithful to the source material or unfaithful; if it has great characters, great story and great acting, then I'll love it.

I love 2-D animation, but that isn't the thing that will make or break a Disney film. I want 2-D and 3-D animation to coexist, and with Lasseter in control of Disney animation I'm sure they will.

Yeah. The frustration comes from a lack of balance though. hand drawn fans are starved and even though I don't have a preference, I can see where their coming from. I would be overjoyed if they would announce any hand drawn movie personally. Whether it turns out any good is another matter of course.

Dr Frankenollie wrote:Good lord, shut up.

There is no need to be rude. DisneyJedi is entitled to his opinion.

Dr Frankenollie wrote:I want 2-D and 3-D animation to coexist, and with Lasseter in control of Disney animation I'm sure they will.

That would be ideal but facts suggest otherwise.

Sotiris wrote:That would be ideal but facts suggest otherwise.

I understand why you're saying that but I'm not sure that any facts exist that say hand-drawn animation is officially, irrefutably dead at Disney. They've announced that to be case once before and if they did so again then there would be no point in saying otherwise. But we don't know what will happen in the future, whose to say that someone at Disney is working on a hand-drawn project right, be it a feature or a short. There are still plenty of great animators at Disney (Eric Goldberg, Mark Henn, Nik Ranieri, Bruce Smith, etc) and John Musker and Ron Clements are still working on a project there so they have the best people to work on a hand-drawn project. Unless Disney explicitly say so, I see no reason to not believe that we might eventually see another hand-drawn film be made by Disney.

DisneyAnimation88 wrote:I understand why you're saying that but I'm not sure that any facts exist that say hand-drawn animation is officially, irrefutably dead at Disney.

But I didn't say that. It is possible that Disney will produce another hand-drawn animated film someday. That's very different from what Dr. Frankenollie said (to whom I was responding) that both mediums will co-exist in WDAS.

I remembered that before Princess and the Frog came out Disney did have a guideline plan of alternating between Hand-drawn(HD) and CGI each year:

2009(HD) Princess and the Frog
2010(CG) Rapunzel
2011(HD) Winnie the Pooh
2012(CG) Joe Jump
2013(HD) SNOW QUEEN
2014(CG) King of Elves
2015(HD) Ramayama (I think....)
......so forth
something along this.

But since Disney was unsatisfied with their result on PatF, it fucked up their initial plan schedule and not the marketing and exec team are now calling the shots. Hence the on/off on Snow Queen
And then Pooh failed too so this made the execs even further starting avoid HD now.

You cant abbreviate hand drawn as HD, that abbreviation is already called for, heh. I was scratching my head there for a sec.

Super Aurora wrote:I remembered that before Princess and the Frog came out Disney did have a guideline plan of alternating between Hand-drawn(HD) and CGI each year:

2009(HD) Princess and the Frog
2010(CG) Rapunzel
2011(HD) Winnie the Pooh
2012(CG) Joe Jump
2013(HD) SNOW QUEEN
2014(CG) King of Elves
2015(HD) Ramayama (I think....)
......so forth
something along this.

But since Disney was unsatisfied with their result on PatF, it fucked up their initial plan schedule and not the marketing and exec team are now calling the shots. Hence the on/off on Snow Queen
And then Pooh failed too so this made the execs even further starting avoid HD now.

Well what did they expect? That Pooh would be the next Lion King? Stupid, STUPID executives!!!

Lnds500 wrote:

Super Aurora wrote:I remembered that before Princess and the Frog came out Disney did have a guideline plan of alternating between Hand-drawn(HD) and CGI each year:

2009(HD) Princess and the Frog
2010(CG) Rapunzel
2011(HD) Winnie the Pooh
2012(CG) Joe Jump
2013(HD) SNOW QUEEN
2014(CG) King of Elves
2015(HD) Ramayama (I think....)
......so forth
something along this.

But since Disney was unsatisfied with their result on PatF, it fucked up their initial plan schedule and not the marketing and exec team are now calling the shots. Hence the on/off on Snow Queen
And then Pooh failed too so this made the execs even further starting avoid HD now.

Well what did they expect? That Pooh would be the next Lion King? Stupid, STUPID executives!!!

Then they also pitted it against Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Pt.2!

I think the execs knew exactly what they were doing, and the fact that they pulled it off doesn't make them stupid at all... just maniacally brilliant.

singerguy04 wrote:

Lnds500 wrote: Well what did they expect? That Pooh would be the next Lion King? Stupid, STUPID executives!!!

Then they also pitted it against Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Pt.2!

I think the execs knew exactly what they were doing, and the fact that they pulled it off doesn't make them stupid at all... just maniacally brilliant.

THANK YOU!! I actually wanted to mention that but I forgot as I was writing.[/b]

Umm, why would the execs Want to sabotage the company's own movies? if you subscribe to the mindset that their just money grubbing suits then wouldn't they want to give their movies, 2d or 3d the best fighting chance? I realize they make stupid moves, but I think they genuinely thought they they were doing the right thing to make these movies as successful as they could. There's no reason for a greedy exec to be biased, they would only care about the numbers. If pooh and princess could have done better why go out of your way just to prove a point and make less money?

The only times Disney has made TERRIBLE moves is these times:

1) Releasing Treasure Planet a week or two after Harry Potter 2, which was getting more buzz.

2) Having Home on the Range released during April instead of during the Summer or Holiday seasons (something Eisner made sure of to "prove" that 2D was "dead")

3) Pitting Bolt against Twilight by releasing it the same day

4) Having The Princess and the Frog released a week before the bigger moneymaker, Avatar (which is total BS, because Avatar was not really that original, and TPatF would've earned more box office earnings if they had just released it on Thanksgiving. Yeah, it would be up against that one ninja movie and Fantastic Mr. Fox, but at least it probably would have gained more audiences than it originally had gotten).

5) Pitting Winnie the Pooh against Harry Potter and having it released a week before Captain America.

Really, the only time they didn't fuck it up was with Tangled!

DisneyJedi wrote:The only times Disney has made TERRIBLE moves is these times:

1) Releasing Treasure Planet a week or two after Harry Potter 2, which was getting more buzz.

2) Having Home on the Range released during April instead of during the Summer or Holiday seasons (something Eisner made sure of to "prove" that 2D was "dead")

3) Pitting Bolt against Twilight by releasing it the same day

4) Having The Princess and the Frog released a week before the bigger moneymaker, Avatar (which is total BS, because Avatar was not really that original, and TPatF would've earned more box office earnings if they had just released it on Thanksgiving. Yeah, it would be up against that one ninja movie and Fantastic Mr. Fox, but at least it probably would have gained more audiences than it originally had gotten).

5) Pitting Winnie the Pooh against Harry Potter and having it released a week before Captain America.

Really, the only time they didn't fuck it up was with Tangled!

Which should probably explain why they're playing safe with Frozen.

I still don't get why people are so surprised that the movie is going to be CGI, even after the last time the project was yet again canned, the plan was to make it CGI.

Then why the hell aren't they "playing it safe" with their hand-drawn movies?!?!?!