DVDizzy Forum

New TV spot introducing Duke Coboom, and domestic versions of the character posters.

Slightly different version of the latest TV spot showing Forky coming to life: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1_rLVng_ps

Car commercial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPJiTt31f0A

And this is the explanation the filmmakers give for Andy's redesign:

ComicBook.com recently visited Pixar Animation Studios in Emeryville, California to learn more about Toy Story 4. While there, we heard from production designer Bob Pauley and global technology supervisor Bill Reeves, who worked on the original Toy Story in the early days of Pixar. They brought up the issue of Andy's redesign and explained that, even though they were on the team that helped bring the character to life, it's easy to see how outdated those early human designs actually were.

The toys of Toy Story were made to look like plastic, and the animators became very skilled at that style rather quickly. However, it never really translated to human characters, since, you know, people aren't made of plastic. When the idea of putting Andy in Toy Story 4 came along, it was clear that he needed to be changed to look more like an actual person.

Source: https://comicbook.com/movies/2019/05/01 ... animation/

Nope. I dont buy that explanation at all. Add subsurface scattering if you want, make the skin look more like skin, but they did not need to change his design like that.

D82 wrote:And this is the explanation the filmmakers give for Andy's redesign.

I'm not buying it either. Especially since the kid version of Andy had already been updated for Toy Story 3. The way they're talking here is as if they hadn't upgraded Andy since the first Toy Story. No one had a problem when Andy's design was altered for Toy Story 3 because the changes were subtle and he was still recognizable as the same character. That's not the the case here.

By the way, did they say why they changed Bo Peep's design or are they not acknowledging that at all?

^I agree with both of you. Updating the design is one thing, but he doesn't look like the same character anymore.

Sotiris wrote:By the way, did they say why they changed Bo Peep's design or are they not acknowledging that at all?

Yes, they mention it in this article:

Because Bo didn’t have much screen time before, “Team Bo” had more wiggle room to make subtle yet significant tweaks. “It was really essential that we redefined Bo for this movie,” story artist Carrie Hobson explained. “As a story team, we worked really hard to figure out what exactly her personality traits were after all this time.” But, of course, they wanted to keep Bo’s integrity intact. “We got a lot of freedom to redesign her, but still wanted be true to what she was in the first Toy Story,” character modeling artist Tanja Krampfert said. “To figure that out, we went all the way back and looked at original 25-year-old drawings and artwork that was made for the first movie. We also looked at every shot of her in the movies to figure out her shapes, her movements, and her facial features to be true to what the audience remembered.”

I especially like this part :

As directing animator Patty Kihm explained, “From the start, we could have fudged it and pretended she had been plastic the whole time. Maybe the audience wouldn’t have remembered. But we thought it’s easier to embrace this weakness, or this delicacy of hers, and see how that would change her character.”

Because Bo didn’t have much screen time before, “Team Bo” had more wiggle room to make subtle yet significant tweaks.

Subtle? You got to be kidding me. What they did is the opposite of that.

“We got a lot of freedom to redesign her, but still wanted be true to what she was in the first Toy Story,” character modeling artist Tanja Krampfert said. “We also looked at every shot of her in the movies to figure out her shapes, her movements, and her facial features to be true to what the audience remembered.”

Well, if that was the intent, then they failed spectacularly.

As directing animator Patty Kihm explained, “From the start, we could have fudged it and pretended she had been plastic the whole time. Maybe the audience wouldn’t have remembered.

That claim is laughable as they severely underplayed her porceline nature and purposefully tried to make her look more plastic. How could they possibly think the audience wouldn't remember? The movies are really popular and widely available in every format possible.

Isn't saying Bo's redesign is "subtle yet significant" an oxymoron?

I'm guessing they're banking on people not really remembering Bo from Toy Story 1 and 2. 2 came out 19 years ago, a lot of the audience watching will be much younger than that and realistically probably don't know/care about Bo's history (nor any other character really... I honestly don't know if today's families keep up with the series or just jump in whenever.)

I guess you can say this audience for this movie, in comparison to the first one or even TS3, has undergone some "subtle yet significant tweaks."

Yeah, bo's redesign is the furthest thing from subtle.

What's next, will they George Lucas it and re-render TS1 and TS2? Toy Story's 25th anniversary is next year.

Warm Regards wrote:I'm guessing they're banking on people not really remembering Bo from Toy Story 1 and 2. 2 came out 19 years ago, a lot of the audience watching will be much younger than that and realistically probably don't know/care about Bo's history (nor any other character really... I honestly don't know if today's families keep up with the series or just jump in whenever.):

Yes, I guess that's what they must've thought. But, as Sotiris said, the movies are widely available. Many kids have watched them on TV, Blu-ray, etc. And there are also many adults who like Pixar films and remember these kinds of details perfectly. I think Pixar clearly underestimates its audience.

Mooky wrote:What's next, will they George Lucas it and re-render TS1 and TS2? Toy Story's 25th anniversary is next year.

That would be horrible. Don't give them any ideas.

A re render could look amazing if done right, grass would look like grass, ambient occlusion, etc. I still wouldn't want them to change the basic design though.

^I would be completely against it. I think movies should remain just as they were when they were released, and as people remember them.

We already have the movies in 1080p, it ain't going anywhere. It could be neat to see the movies more like how I remember and not as the early CG that they were.

Mooky wrote:What's next, will they George Lucas it and re-render TS1 and TS2? Toy Story's 25th anniversary is next year.

I think this will inevitably happen with all of Disney's successful 3D films (whether PIXAR or WDAS). I would say the same of Dreamworks or other companies that put out 3D films, but I have a hard time believing most of them will still be around 30-50 years from now. Well, unless Disney ends up absorbing them at some point, too.

D82 wrote:I would be completely against it. I think movies should remain just as they were when they were released, and as people remember them.

Couldn't agree more. Disney needs to stop messing with their movies after they're released! What's done is done for better or worse.

I can definitely see visual remakes of all the older films especially to iron out all the inconsistencies (Bo Peep, Andy, Tony Rydinger, etc.) Let's not forget that Eisner wanted to remake the classic films in CGI which technically has happened anyway through the live-action remakes, especially with The Jungle Book and The Lion King which are basically all pure CGI anyway.

D82 wrote:

Warm Regards wrote:I'm guessing they're banking on people not really remembering Bo from Toy Story 1 and 2. 2 came out 19 years ago, a lot of the audience watching will be much younger than that and realistically probably don't know/care about Bo's history (nor any other character really... I honestly don't know if today's families keep up with the series or just jump in whenever.):

Yes, I guess that's what they must've thought. But, as Sotiris said, the movies are widely available. Many kids have watched them on TV, Blu-ray, etc. And there are also many adults who like Pixar films and remember these kinds of details perfectly. I think Pixar clearly underestimates its audience.

Mooky wrote:What's next, will they George Lucas it and re-render TS1 and TS2? Toy Story's 25th anniversary is next year.

That would be horrible. Don't give them any ideas.

Well, didn't John Lasseter say in defending Cars 2 something about how there were critics who hated the original Toy Story? Kinda sounds a little like George Lucas's defense for the prequels.

Must be that I have no love for the medium because I wouldn't care if 3D films were re-rendered in the vein of a "restoration." As long as they mostly keep the designs the same, it wouldn't bother me. This is why I hate 3D films/effects, because in 10 years time everything looks outdated or even ugly next to all the advances in technology in the newest movies being released. Andy in the first Toy Story is a monstrosity.

I mean, as long as the original version is preserved and commercially available, re-rendering would be fine with me. Toy Story does look really crude at times, almost unfinished, and some scenes are hard to look at. Sometimes characters look like they occupy different planes!

I understand why it would bother purists though. I'm not the kind of person that is terribly bothered by such things, and I don't really fault George Lucas for making changes to Star Wars, it is/was his baby after all. Some of them were kind of dumb, yes (2004 RotJ ending). I suppose I'm in the minority, but I support things like reinstation of deleted scenes or improvements to special effects. Heck, some movies/franchises would benefit from it (say, a short scene or voiceover in Prisoner of Azkaban explaining the Marauders).

Mooky wrote: I understand why it would bother purists though. I'm not the kind of person that is terribly bothered by such things, and I don't really fault George Lucas for making changes to Star Wars, it is/was his baby after all. Some of them were kind of dumb, yes (2004 RotJ ending). I suppose I'm in the minority, but I support things like reinstation of deleted scenes or improvements to special effects. Heck, some movies/franchises would benefit from it (say, a short scene or voiceover in Prisoner of Azkaban explaining the Marauders).

I've never really had problems with most of Lucas' changes either, not even the change involving the ROTJ ghost featuring Anakin (which I frankly always felt was one of his better improvements). The main one I have an issue with is Jabba's appearance in A New Hope, because not only is the dialogue almost word-for-word from the earlier Greedo scene, but the CGI Jabba looks absolutely terrible.

I've always loved extended editions and changes in special effects after technology has advanced over the years. I was ecstatic that the first two Harry Potter films got extended editions, especially since they've always been the most book accurate. Never understood why the rest of the series never got the same treatment especially since the later installments have so many plotholes and unused footage (especially Order of the Phoenix). Prisoner of Azkaban is my fav HP film but I agree that it always bothered me that the Marauders were never addressed.