DVDizzy Forum

ajmrowland wrote:^It's quite thematically different from Stitch, though, which is a HUGE difference.

I disagree. I think the main theme was that family matters more than anything else and was very consistent between the two films. Lilo and Stitch had the fish out of water theme going. Bolt had it to with the new setting for Bolt but it wasnt as extreme as in Lilo and Stitch.

DisneyJedi wrote:

Mr. Toad wrote: Thought Miley Cirus did a really poor job. Oh well, if there is no voice over work she always can spend her spare time destroying Radiohead.

Well, I did hear that Miley Cyrus wasn't the first choice. But I wonder who else there was.

Supposedly Chloe Moretz, heard as the young Penny (and Darby on "My Friends Tigger & Pooh"), recorded the voice for the character throughout. Then Miley was called into revoice the character for what we can only imagine were marketing reasons.

Mr. Toad wrote:

ajmrowland wrote:^It's quite thematically different from Stitch, though, which is a HUGE difference.

I disagree. I think the main theme was that family matters more than anything else and was very consistent between the two films. Lilo and Stitch had the fish out of water theme going. Bolt had it to with the new setting for Bolt but it wasnt as extreme as in Lilo and Stitch.

That's true, but Bolt was more about discovering one's self than their loved ones. He only doubted his loyalty to Penny when he saw the other dog. All those scenes of Mittens teaching him to be a dog are important for something other than a montage.

http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/ ... watch.html


Long ago, I thought that Bolt would pass the $300 million mark in worldwide box office ... and I've been steadily, consistently wrong.

But the pooch is still bopping along ...

...and BO Mojo informs us that the total take now comes to ...

$294,516,832

... with the numbers still ticking over to larger totals.

http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/ ... ction.html

Earlier this week I had occasion to talk to a Disney person who confirmed that no, Bolt has not yet been launched in Japan. "The release is early in the summer ..."

So. Based on that ...

I'll go out on a broad, stout limb and predict that White Doggie will, when the grosses from Japan roll in, the worldwide grosses for Bolt will be comfortably north of $300 million ... and the $294,516,832 it's collected to date.

OK - after the Rapunzel thread, I'm digging this up again. Live with it.

Here is the best description I can get of Chris Saunders' American Dog.

http://alwaysanimated.blogspot.com/2008 ... n-dog.html

Henry, a famous TV dog, finds himself stranded in the Nevada desert. Out in the world for the first time, Henry's tidy life of scripted triumph has come to an end, and his 2,000 mile trek through the real world is just beginning.Henry is a popular dog. He stars in his own television series, in which he is a James Bond style secret agent who manages to survive the most wonderful adventures. Henry is the toast of the town, but then one day one of the stunts in his show goes terribly wrong, Henry loses consciousness, and when he wakes up he finds himself on a train, thousands of miles away from his home. Henry has been a celebrity all his life and does not know how to handle himself in this new situation, but luckily he is able to make some new friends that he convinces to get him back home.

Other synopsis are similar, but there's a little more here:
http://hollywood-animated-films.suite10 ... erican_dog

But even from that small synopsis I've quoted, you can imagine how much like Cars American Dog would have been.

A "Star" who finds himself lost in small-town America. A Small town in the desert too don't forget, which while not mentioned in the synopsis, is clearly shown in the concept art that was released. And as a "Star" Henry doesn't know how to handle himself - a mixture of arrogance and ignorance other synopsis have implied. At no time does Henry think he is the superhero/agent he plays in his TV show, unlike Bolt.

Also, given the Thomas Haden Church thing, it appears work was considerably advanced on American Dog before "Black X-day" (whatever day it was Sanders was "let go").

Now that does raise interesting questions. If Cars was in-development at the same time as American Dog (and presumably sooner than American Dog) how on Earth was American Dog allowed to get as far along as it did?

Was it just a case of studio executives having a light touch as they did on Sanders' Lilo and Stitch? Did "old" Disney not care it seemingly stepped on Cars' toes? Probably not - they have Princess movies stepping on each others toes with seemingly no ill-effect.

What's interesting is that various blogs don't state the similarities to Cars was the problem (but to me it seems obvious from that synopsis) but rather American Dog would be stepping on the toes of Toy Story 3. This seems to come from one of Jim Hill's ramblings, which I always take with a pinch of salt anyway. But if this is true, does this mean Buzz, Woody and Co are going to be accidentaly left behind somewhere in Toy Story 3.

As PvD pointed out in the Rapunzel thread, even Saunders' synopsis sounds uninspired if you break it down. It certainly contains no themes or morals that are new. But there's only so many stories you can tell when all is said and done. It's how you tell the story that matters. And with a giant radioactive rabbit and a one eyed-cat, I'm sure the storytelling would be more vibrant and imaginative than what we got with Bolt. (Which of course, stepped on the original Toy Story's toes).

Of course, considering Lasseter considered Wall-E to be "risky", I sure Saunders' eccentricity gave him nightmares.

Do we know Saunders' American Dog would be better than Bolt? No. But I do know Bolt was ultimately a generic story with generic character designs and a little to much in-filming action at the beginning.

wow, I never did notice the similairities with Cars. If the rumor about Chris not wanting to make the changes Lasseter suggested are true you could be right.

My guess is old Disney management didnt care it was a cardboard copy of Cars, but Lasseter obviously did. I can imagine the frustration Sanders must have felt. Disney let production on the film continue because they didn't care and the all of a sudden after the management switc Lasseter comes and demand changes to make it less like Cars. And because Cars was his own movie, it could have been personal as well.

That would explain why Sanders was not willing to make changes. I'd be pissed. And it would also mean it had nothing to do with Lasseter not liking his designs or not to mention the rediculous "Lasseter also hated Lilo & Stitch" thing. As if he had something against his artwork.

I doubt it has something to do with Toy Story 3. The screenplay for that one had not been written at the time. Wasn't the Little Miss Sunshine writer even hired later? Bolt's troubles were in late 2005, early 2006 I think.

And besides, Jim Hill has been wrong all the time. Especially since the management switch when he lost his "contact" at WDFA. Today he brings us the breaking news that Oprah is dedicating an entire show to "The Princess and the Frog". Yeah, DUH. Wasn't that the entire reason why she replaced Angela Bassett? A powerful and influential black woman like Oprah could help fight controversy. So OF COURSE she's gonna do a show on the film. She's done a show on every film she's been in. But these days, that's the kind of breaking news coming from Jim Hill.

Sorry for bumping this thread but I've been thinking about Bolt a lot lately...

I think the movie is finally growing on me. I've remembered so many small details that its slowly but surely leading me to believe that Bolt is not just a good movie...its a GREAT movie.

This train of thought actually starts with the first opening scenes. I am not talking about the great action sequences, but the scene in which we see Bolt as a puppy.

Not only is it sickeningly ADORABLE, the animation, mood and characters are extremely effective. Bolt looks, moves and act like a real puppy. Its easily one of my favorite scenes in the movie.

Then there's the small details, like how Bolt turns to see his favorite carrot chew toy only to go back to being Bolt the action dog. Speaking of action Bolt, a lot of people has compared Bolt's delusion to Buzz's delusion in Toy Story. While both have similarities I think they happen under different circumstances.

Buzz was just a plastic toy and its likely he didn't come to live till Andy opens him up. He was born with the knowledge that he was Buzz Lightyear thanks to no prior life experiences other than being frozen as a toy waiting to be bought. Bolt, on the other hand, was born a dog. He was a playful puppy and a loyal dog to Penny. What happened was that he was taught to be Bolt the action dog for the sake of the show. But deep down he was still Bolt and he knew it, he just needed to be pushed in the right direction.

The scene with the carrot chew toy is an example of this. He turns when he hears it and grows curious, but his action Bolt persona took over.

Their delusions are also destroyed in different ways. Buzz remains action Buzz till he sees the toy commercial. Bolt, on the other hand, slowly grows as a dog while still being action Bolt, his breaking scene being the moment in which he sees Penny playing with stand in Bolt and realizes what Mittens has been telling him all along.

So both characters are delusional, but it happens to them under different circumstances.

Another thing is Mittens as a character. Not only is she a well acted and animated character her story is great and very human. Once again people compare this to Jessie's story in Toy Story 2. The common theme in both stories is abandonment. But both happen under different circumstances as well and are portrayed in different ways. Jessie's story is a far better emotional manipulator, while Mittens' story is more real since pet abandonment is never a cool thing.

Like in Meet the Robinsons, there are many elements that make it a Disney film even if at times it shadows Pixar and/or Dreamworks. The theme of inner strength is spread throughout the film. It starts with Bolt believing he is a super dog. Then it changes into Bolt realizing that he is just a normal dog. And it ends with Bolt realizing that he IS a super dog, though in a manner different from the TV series. Themes of loyalty, friendship, home and family are also present, especially in Mittens and Penny.

I have to rent the movie again and see it just to spot these elements and see what else I can find. Its a shame that this movie might be remembered more for its troubled production than its overall qualities. I sense it might become like The Black Cauldron in that its history is far more interesting than the final product, but it will find a loyal fanbase that will show the worlds the film's true qualities.

Disney fans hung up over the film's change should get over it. Chris Sander's American Dog is long dead, and we will never get to see it. We have to accept Bolt as its own movie and praise its good intentions.

For a movie that was overhauled in a short period of time Bolt is pretty damn good. Not even movies four years in the making have that kind of quality (I am looking at you Star Wars prequels! ) .

I don't know if anybody knows yet, but Bolt has finally made over $300 million.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?pa ... d=bolt.htm

Ed Catmull in his new book Creativity Inc. talks about American Dog and why they decided to retool the film.

Ed Catmull wrote:A key moment in this evolution came in the fall of 2006, nine months after the merger, at a Story Trust meeting in Burbank. It happened after a fairly awful screening of American Dog, a film structured around a famous and pampered canine actor (think Rin Tin Tin) who believed that he was the superhero character he played on TV. When he found himself stranded in the desert, he had to face for the first time how his tidy, scripted life had not prepared him for reality—that he, in fact, had no special powers. That was all well and good, but somewhere along the way, the plot had also come to include a radioactive, cookie-selling Girl Scout zombie serial killer. I’m all for quirky ideas, but this one had metastasized. The movie was still finding its way, to say the least, so John started off the meeting, as he often does, by focusing on the things he liked about it. He also indicated he saw some problems, but he wanted to give the Disney folks the chance to take the lead on those, so instead of digging in and getting too specific, he threw the meeting open to the floor. Throughout the meeting the comments stayed at a superficial level, remaining strangely upbeat—judging by the commentary, you would have never known the film was in disarray. Afterward, one of the Disney directors confided to me that many people in the room had major reservations about the film but didn’t say what they thought because John had kicked things off so positively. Taking their cues from him, they didn’t want to go against what they thought he liked. Not trusting their own instincts, they held back. [...]

Not long after, Disney would have a crisis of its own on American Dog. I mentioned earlier the emergence of a serial killer storyline, which—while we prided ourselves on always remaining open to new ideas—seemed a tad dark for a family film. Despite our misgivings, though, we decided to give the movie a chance to evolve. Finding a movie’s through line always takes time, we told ourselves. But after ten months of Story Trust meetings—and very little improvement—we concluded that the only option was to restart the project. We asked Chris Williams, a veteran story artist best known for Mulan and The Emperor’s New Groove, and Byron Howard, then a supervising animator on Lilo and Stitch, to step in as its directors. Immediately, they began reconceiving the movie. The serial killer was tossed, and the movie was renamed Bolt. One of the biggest problems, they felt, was that Bolt himself wasn’t appealing enough, visually, to carry the film.

Ugh, he really just twisted the knife didn't he? American Dog sounds even more awesome, meanwhile John gets painted like a saint and the Disney crew gets the blame for letting it go for so long. How exactly does Ed Catmull know what all the other Disney peeps were thinking?

Serial killer being too dark for a family film? We survived the Queen asking for Snow White's heart in a box. I'm sure we would've been fine...

Completely disagree. Who knows if that's really how it went down between Lasseter and the rest (it sounds believable, but I could also see the changes coming more directly from Lasseter), but if the story that was left behind indeed involved a "Girl Scout zombie serial killer"... my god, that sounds SO bad. It certainly sounds like they did keep the best of what was in the initial version - the premise.

SWillie! wrote:But if the story that was left behind indeed involved a "Girl Scout zombie serial killer"... my god, that sounds SO bad.

Judging from her character design, it actually looks pretty fun. I know that on paper it sounds off but so does Lilo & Stitch. I think Chris Sanders could have made it work were he allowed to follow through with the project.

I think a great bonus feature on the Bolt Blu-Ray could have been a story reel of American Dog, since it appeared to have changed so drastically (Chris Sanders didn't even get a story credit on Bolt). I love that they included the original story treatment of Monsters Inc on that movie's bonus features and it would have been interesting to see that for other films. The beginning of Richard Purdum's Beauty and the Beast on that movie's Blu-Ray was also a fantastic addition. I understand why they didn't do that for The Emperor's New Groove, since Disney likes to pretend that was a mostly smooth production, but I don't see the harm of putting the original American Dog story treatment out there in the open.

Victurtle wrote:Ugh, he really just twisted the knife didn't he? American Dog sounds even more awesome, meanwhile John gets painted like a saint and the Disney crew gets the blame for letting it go for so long. How exactly does Ed Catmull know what all the other Disney peeps were thinking?

Serial killer being too dark for a family film? We survived the Queen asking for Snow White's heart in a box. I'm sure we would've been fine...

I wish I could like this. Those early ideas don't sound even half as dark as many successful animated films have been. I could've guessed something quirky would not work with John Lasster's mundane outlook on films though.

Ed Catmull wrote:That was all well and good, but somewhere along the way, the plot had also come to include a radioactive, cookie-selling Girl Scout zombie serial killer. I’m all for quirky ideas, but this one had metastasized.

Ed Catmull needs to meet this girl.

the more I read about American Dog the more it reminds me of this movie from the early 90s called Cats dont Dance. It had this cat that was looking for work in Hollywood and a little psycho Shirly Temple type girl. AD also kinda feels like something that Warner Brothers or Tex Avery would have done if they did feature films instead of shorts back in the day.

Wait, Chris wasn't even brought on until after they ditched the serial killer thing? I'm a bit confused, I thought from its conception the movie was basically Chris' baby.

Sotiris wrote:

SWillie! wrote:But if the story that was left behind indeed involved a "Girl Scout zombie serial killer"... my god, that sounds SO bad.

Judging from her character design, it actually looks pretty fun. I know that on paper it sounds off but so does Lilo & Stitch. I think Chris Sanders could have made it work were he allowed to follow through with the project.

Cool design. Nice blog too. Most of my favorite animation blogs are dead these days, so its always a treat to find a somewhat active one I like for a change.

Kyle wrote:Wait, Chris wasn't even brought on until after they ditched the serial killer thing? I'm a bit confused, I thought from its conception the movie was basically Chris' baby.

Yes, American Dog was Sanders' baby from the start. I think you're confusing Chris Sanders with Chris Williams. Chris Williams was brought on to co-direct Bolt after they rebooted the project.

Whoops, you're right, somehow my brain skipped the last name and filled in the blank.