DVDizzy Forum

^ Thank you so much for sharing all that info, D82!!! I would think that human-Sisu becoming dragon-Sisu would have been kept more of a secret...? That would have been a huge twist, right?

Yes, thank you. Especially the parts about how the sea is shaped like a dragon, her breathing fog / riding raindrops, etc. Perhaps Sisu was magicked into human form by the other dragons to prevent her dying along with them during the sacrifice. I'm wary about the band of misfits stuff, as far as if I'll like it or not. I think I'd rather it was just her and Sisu, but I understand they want to have characters who symbolize each of the five sections coming together to overcome divisiveness and stand against the darkness. (The girl who likely betrays Raya being an example of the opposite choice, most likely. Perhaps she is in charge of one of the sections when she and Raya are adults, and she's willing to sacrifice other groups of the 5 to help her own group survive rather than, like Raya, unite everyone together. Or perhaps it'll be a purely power thing, and she sees the opportunity for her group to rule over the others by using the threat of the Druun as a convenient way to divide and conquer the other groups?)

farerb wrote:Something about this film reminded me Star Wars more than anything, especially the desert scenes.

The desert scenes were very reminiscent of Star Wars. The color scheme, the cinematography, Raya's outfit, even the camera movement. I actually thought for a second that it was BB-8 who was rolling around in this shot.

disneyprincess11 wrote:Is it just me or did they rip off the Katara/Korra designs for young Raya?

Everyone commented how much young Raya looked like Korra with that outfit and hairstyle. I don't understand how no one working on the film noticed it. Had they changed a few details here and there or even just the color of her outfit, it wouldn't have been so obvious. Neysa Bove was a costume designer on the film, but I'm not sure if she designed this specific outfit.

Clindor wrote:But so many sequences of young Raya already being a perfect little ninja! Where does that come from?

That's a legitimate concern. Even though they show her training, she's already exceptionally good from a very young age. Hopefully, they'll show her failing and improving over time instead of being great at it from the start. In their eagerness to appear progressive, Hollywood has given us lots of Mary Sues lately. Fingers crossed, that won't be the case with Raya.

Clindor wrote:One remark: in the longer video clip showed at D23 Expo, when Raya visits the temple (if that's the same temple, because in the D23 clip it is really hidden inside the nature/jungle, very narrow and almost completely dark [so that Raya uses a torch to find her inside before Sisu blows the flame] so the artists would have completely changed its looks), she is an adult. And the water flowing backward on the stairs does it on a much larger surface and also comes from a giant rock that seems to levitate above the supposed entrance.

I would have much preferred that. It's a shame they changed it. It sounds much more ambient and mysterious than what we got.

farerb wrote:The Wizard - Start A Riot:
https://youtu.be/ap3FBv1jZeQ

Thanks for sharing that. I was wondering what the background music playing in the trailer was. The trailer might have been underwhelming, but at least they chose a strong tune for it.

Clindor wrote:Also, officially nothing left of the cool axe-weapon Raya used to handle ? (then again from D23 content) I tried to spot it in every shot of the trailer, I could not find it. Now it's everything for this CGI remodeled Shan-Yu's sword. How cool it was to see a Disney heroine manipulate an axe-like weapon.

Agreed. An axe-like weapon would have been much cooler and unique instead of yet another plain ol' sword. And one that looks so much like Shan-Yu's sword, no less. Perhaps Disney thought a weapon like that would be too aggressive for a female protagonist or appear too violent for a family-friendly film. Let's not forget, they have the Disney Princess franchise to think of too.

nomad2010 wrote:Are we really getting another “daughter of a chief must protect/find stone/rock/relic” movie?

Disney itself hasn't used that formula much. Basically, just with Moana and maybe Atlantis. Moana is still fresh in people's minds which makes the similarities between the two more noticeable.

Disney's Divinity wrote:I admit I do like her child design better than those from the rest of the revival going back to TP&TF.

To me, young Tiana, Rapunzel, Elsa, Anna, and Moana all had better designs than young Raya. Personally, I don't like her design as a kid at all. There's something off with how her face is structured. I think it might be the inverted triangle face shape. Can't quite put my finger on it. Incidentally, young Raya was modeled by Suzan Kim.

Disney's Divinity wrote:The artwork she touches when she's talking about the last dragon is really pretty. Reminded me sort of Samurai Jack's aesthetic.

I liked that too. Mingjue Helen Chen is responsible for that who is the production designer on the film.

D82 wrote:I could be wrong, but I think it looks like just one seen from the front and two seen in profile.

It's a plausible theory, but something tell me it has been changed. Before, the horn looked like a bud or the tip of a bulb, but now it's made to look like two separate horns even in profile view. If it indeed used to be one horn, that would mark the second time an animal had their number of horns changed. Originally, Sven was going to have only one antler instead of two as well.

D82 wrote:And could this character from the previous shot be the same than the one revealed in the Frozen 2 documentary? The outfit looks similar. Or maybe it's the girl who is next to her (who I suppose is her daughter and future leader of their clan) when she grows up, given that Raya is also a girl in that scene.

Yes, the character depicted in that artwork is most likely the adult version of her daughter. I hope they keep the pixie hairstyle from the concept art. Not fond of the one she sports in the trailer. I think it's safe to say the little girl will grow be an antagonist or maybe even the real villain in the film. While her mom has a noble and wise expression in that shot, she looks displeased or slightly angry even.

D82 wrote:Speaking of that, I guess the masked man Raya fights with at the beginning of the trailer is Raya's father who is training her, right? It looks like they have a very special bond. It's going to be sad to see him die. By the way, in the following shot only Raya and her father appear. Maybe her mother is behind them and we can't see her or she's not with them in that scene, but it made me suspect that perhaps Raya will be motherless after all.

Yes, it's definitely her father. I wish they showed us his face. It was already revealed in August that her father is the one who gets killed and I doubt that plot point was changed since then. But there is the possibility her mom has also passed, like you said, since she isn't featured in that scene alongside her husband and daughter. Perhaps during childbirth? Unless, she was also killed (or petrified) by the Druun. That would make Raya the first orphan Disney Princess since Cinderella. By the way, I noticed there was no sign of Raya's younger brother who played the pan flute. Did he get axed like Moana's brothers? I say her brother because that was how his was referred to by people who saw the footage at the D23 Expo, but it might have been just an assumption on their part. I don't think his relation to Raya was ever confirmed. He might have been just a kid she met on her quest.

D82 wrote:I think her final look is more similar to the concept art than to the other leaked images. Personally, I have no complaints.

I'm in the camp who prefers her previous CG design. It was more proportionate and less derivative. Her eyes are a bit too large now which makes her look slightly off. I think she looks better in the Japanese poster and in the doll packaging where her features are more proportional. If she looks more like that in the final film, I'll be a happy camper. By the way, I noticed that her lips are completely colorless in the trailer which is another thing I didn't like about the way she looked there. Is having color in your lips considered too feminine nowadays? Her lips do have color in them on the posters and the doll packaging though. Why is there such a discrepancy between how she looks in promotional materials and in film?

D82 wrote:I also like her hairstyle, which differentiates her from other similar princesses, like Pocahontas or Moana.

I can't say I like the shape of her hair. It's kind of flat. Maybe it's because of the humidity. The braids at the top of her head are OK, I guess. They're barely noticeable. It doesn't make much difference to her look. I prefer the hair she had in the leaked CG image which was more round-shaped and voluminous.

D82 wrote:

Rumpelstiltskin wrote:By the way, why is there a giant cheerio in the intro?

Personally, it reminds me of a donut. But I think it's cool. I guess the palace on the top is Raya's.

I reminded of a doughnut as well. That rock formation is definitely out-there. Not a fan. They should have they zoomed in on the palace to make the Disney Castle variation.

unprincess wrote:Clearly, Disney wants the Avatar/Naruto audience (i.e. BOYS!)

I think the rationale behind this was less to make it enticing to boys and more to make it appealing to the anti-princess crowd. Creating another Moana-like film where the female lead is a warrior who wants to save her home and doesn't have a love interest is the easiest way to achieve that. I expect this to become the new Disney formula from now on.

unprincess wrote:I think all looks like the same world as Moana's just with a Southeast Asian dressing.

That's true. You could take any of the inhabitants of Kumandra and put them on Motunui, and vice versa, and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. They should have strived for a more distinctive look for the natives this time around. I can't wait for the fan theory of how Moana and Raya are interconnected and set in the same universe.

UmbrellaFish wrote:My only question: I wonder why they chose to focus the trailer on a younger version of Raya?

I figure it was to showcase her fighting skills. But perhaps there was a practical reason for it like not having any other finished footage. Personally, I didn't like there was so much focus on kid Raya. I hope she doesn't take too much screen time in the film.

D82 wrote:They look quite big, I bet they're fantastical creatures like Tuk Tuk. The other clans also seem to have their own kind of animal. There are ones that look like mammoths and others similar to buffalos.

I like that each tribe has its own signature animal. My only problem in that scene is the leader of the green tribe. His design is too generic. He looked like a background character.

D82 wrote:By the way, I forgot to ask something before. What do you guys think has happened in the following shot? Have these people been turned to stone or something? Do you think that's what the Druun do?

Yes, I think people were turned into stone. Probably the work of the Druun. There's no way someone put some random statues in the middle of the desert. The fact there's a cart next to them is another indication they used to be real people.

D82 wrote:That detail was revealed at the last D23 Expo, but I think they hadn't mentioned it again until now. Here's one report from D23 where they talk about the gem.

In different report from D23 Expo, it was revealed Raya was actively searching for the gem whereas now it seems she already knows where it is (since it was shown at the site of Raya's training in the trailer) and already has it in her possession (judging by the Japanese poster).

In one of the last clips from the film, we overhear that the gem that Raya is looking for is also essential to the story, and that, in the right hands, could change the world.

Source: https://www.geeksofdoom.com/2019/08/25/ ... on-footage

D82 wrote:I love the vegetation and the new fantastical creature.

Me too. I'll take a lush environment with interesting flora and fauna over generic deserts any day!

D82 wrote:By the way, here's the source in case anyone wants to see it in higher definition.

Thanks for tracking down the source! I found another version of that poster that shows a little more of the environment.


Source: https://www.disney.co.jp/movie/raya.html

Disney's Divinity wrote:I wonder if the Druun have caused the desert in some way? (That might be related to the stone people D82 pointed out in one shot.) Maybe that's why, too, the dragon seems to be a water dragon as unprincess has said before, because Raya finding the last dragon may bring back the rain, vegetation, growth, and so on--end the drought / death. That would be another similarity to Moana, as far the Druun causing an "infection" of some kind that leads to the world deteriorating.

I think you're right on the money. It makes perfect sense. The similarities to Moana are piling up though. I hope audiences don't write the movie off as a rip-off.

D82 wrote:Also, the other day I posted positive reactions by people from Southeast Asian descent, but there are also others who are more critical of Disney's take on their culture:

Fans aren’t too happy about ‘Raya and the Last Dragon’s’ Southeast Asian rep
https://www.girlfriend.com.au/raya-and- ... ontroversy

That's the same criticism hurled at Moana and Big Hero 6 for taking various adjacent non-white cultures and fusing them together. It's a valid criticism, but at the same time I understand why Disney prefers this approach over selecting a specific country. They believe they can appeal to more overseas markets this way as well as enjoy more creative freedom in portraying said region(s). If they chose a specific country, they'd have to very careful in being historically accurate. They wouldn't be able to pick the elements they liked from different eras and locations. They'd be confined to a clearly-defined time period and locale, otherwise they'd be strongly criticized. Mulan is still criticized for that reason decades later.

D82 wrote:Tuk Tuk, though, looks much cuter now.

Yes, he's cuter, but I would have preferred if he looked more like an actual animal instead of a cartoon character. Something akin to Merida's horse, Angus.

D82 wrote:Here's the new look at Raya on that same doll box.

This is my favorite image of Raya so far based on her new design. I hope she looks more like that in the actual film.

unprincess wrote:As for Sisu, I don't know why but the first thing that came to me when I saw her was teen/adult Noodle from Gorillaz. I guess its her uglycute face with the snub nose.

You're right. They are similar in look and expression.

D82 wrote:By the way, I've noticed Sisu's hair is several colors and not just white.

I like that her hair has blue and pink in them to parallel the colors of her dragon form.

D82 wrote:And I now wonder if she's meant to look like an old woman or not. Maybe she just has whitish magical hair (similar to Elsa), but is supposed to have the appearance of a young woman.

I'm uncertain about that as well. The attendees at D23 Expo described her human form as an old woman, but they might have been deceived by the white hair. Disney casts their characters age-appropriately nowadays, so I don't think they would have hired Akwafina if the character was supposed to be an elderly woman. On the other hand, there's something about her that makes her look old and it's not her hair. Maybe it's her caricatured design or her exaggerated expression. Maybe it's her pose and her outfit that's giving me old lady vibes. I'm not quite sure.

D82 wrote:As for her mouth, I don't know, maybe her smile is so wide because when she's a human she still retains some of the traits she has as a dragon.

Yes, I believe so as well. Like with Joe in Soul, this is another case where the non-human look came first and then the human form was designed to resemble it.

Disney's Divinity wrote:I don't know why the face is making me think of Whoopi Goldberg.

I reminds me of her too. Well, the doll more than the clip-art.

Disney's Divinity wrote:For some reason I'm imagining her doing yoga upside down or something.

I can totally see that. She sort of reminds me of Stitch. She has that fun, quirky, and mischievous quality about her.

D82 wrote:I'm very curious about the Druun. I wonder if they'll be human or some kind of monsters.

It's already been confirmed they're monsters.

But when sinister monsters known as the Druun threatened the land, the dragons sacrificed themselves to save humanity.

Source: https://movies.disney.com/raya-and-the-last-dragon

Clindor wrote:Quite possibly yes. In this one clip featuring the stone at D23, it starts spreading green light all around the Asian jungle when young Raya (obviously little girl) and her father (both unseen on screen) ask to see the powers of the gem!

Very interesting. I wonder if Raya will be the chosen one who'll unleash the power of the gem. All of these elements, the princess, the quest, the gem that holds tremendous power, remind me of Sailor Moon. Could she have been an inspiration for Raya? I know that some members of the crew are Sailor Moon fans and periodically make fanart of her.

D82 wrote:The EW article disneyprincess11 mentioned seemed to indicate the thing that underwent the biggest transformation was Raya herself, which makes sense considering her role even had to be recast.

I also believe that Raya was the element that was changed most radically, but along with her character some story details must have been changed as well to accommodate her new iteration.

D82 wrote:Has this synopsis been posted before? Maybe I've forgotten about it, but I don't remember having heard that Sisu was left on Earth on purpose in case the Druun returned.

That's an interesting detail. I wonder if she'll get a tragic backstory like having to witness her parents (do dragons even have parents?) sacrificing themselves and saying goodbye to her as she's left behind or how lonely it feels to be the last of your kind.

D82 wrote:Now that you mention Dragon Empire, I read some posts from the beginning of this thread the other day and the description of the characters from that earlier version of the story made me think that maybe the protagonist's 900 year old mentor was an earlier version of Sisu which was later turned into a female character.

Yes, I believe that's the case as well. I assume that was changed after Lasseter was ousted. He had a preference for male/female duos going on road trips and this is the first WDAS movie since he came on board that features a female/female pairing. That can't be a coincidence, right?

D82 wrote:Set in Kumandra, a fantasy world with five lands and a sea shaped like a dragon.

Even the sea is shaped like a dragon? Talk about overkill. I think they've gone a bit overboard with the dragon theme.

D82 wrote:Along their journey, Raya and Sisu encounter a band of misfits from each of Kumandra’s five clans, ultimately becoming a family.

The "found family" angle is a refreshing change of pace and something that differentiates Raya from Moana as a story. Well, that's if the misfits are still part of the new version.

Disney's Divinity wrote:Perhaps Sisu was magicked into human form by the other dragons to prevent her dying along with them during the sacrifice.

I think the reason she's stuck in a human form is because of the dragon gem getting lost or shielding off its power. The gem is the source of all the dragons' magic, so the other dragons wouldn't need to transform her into a human; she could have done it herself.

Disney's Divinity wrote:The girl who likely betrays Raya being an example of the opposite choice, most likely. Perhaps she is in charge of one of the sections when she and Raya are adults, and she's willing to sacrifice other groups of the 5 to help her own group survive rather than, like Raya, unite everyone together. Or perhaps it'll be a purely power thing, and she sees the opportunity for her group to rule over the others by using the threat of the Druun as a convenient way to divide and conquer the other groups?

Those are both interesting theories. I have a feeling they'll make her into a righteous villain who means well and cares about her people, but goes about it the wrong way.

What did you think about the trailer, Sotiris?

Sotiris wrote:That's a legitimate concern. Even though they show her training, she's already exceptionally good from a very young age. Hopefully, they'll show her failing and improving over time instead of being great at it from the start. In their eagerness to appear progressive, Hollywood has given us lots of Mary Sues lately. Fingers crossed, that won't be the case with Raya.

I personally don't think that WDAS has done it with their previous heroines (but I know that others might disagree) so I'm hopeful they don't start now.

Sotiris wrote:Thanks for sharing that. I was wondering what the background music playing in the trailer was. The trailer might have been underwhelming, but at least they chose a strong tune for it.

You're welcome. I personally didn't like it very much. Sounded too much contemporary for a film that is set in the past.

Sotiris wrote:I reminded of a doughnut as well. That rock formation is definitely out-there. Not a fan. They should have they zoomed in on the palace to make the Disney Castle variation.

I honestly don't understand how living up there makes sense, how do they get to the top? Seems really uncomfortable. Though it might be where the temple is in order to make it harder for people to get there.

Sotiris wrote:I think the rationale behind this was less to make it enticing to boys and more to make it appealing to the anti-princess crowd. Creating another Moana-like film where the female lead is a warrior who wants to save her home and doesn't have a love interest is the easiest way to achieve that. I expect this to become the new Disney formula from now on.

But Moana wasn't a warrior at all, the only other warrior was Mulan. I agree about the love interest but I don't mind that as long as the story doesn't need that, which seems that it doesn't. Disney wasn't always about romances, I can give Alice in Wonderland as an example and even Mulan.

Sotiris wrote:That's true. You could take any of the inhabitants of Kumandra and put them on Motunui, and vice versa, and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. They should have strived for a more distinctive look for the natives this time around. I can't wait for the fan theory of how Moana and Raya are interconnected and set in the same universe.

Hopefully that won't be the case. There are still people out there who think that Encanto is basically Moana 2 because of the confusion.

Sotiris wrote:I think you're right on the money. It makes perfect sense. The similarities to Moana are piling up though. I hope audiences don't write the movie off as a rip-off.

I have a feeling that Raya will have a less straightforward narrative and focus more on action and less on comedy and music. But I hope they are different enough because I don't want to see "Tangled with snow" comments applied here again.

Sotiris wrote:That's the same criticism hurled at Moana and Big Hero 6 for taking various adjacent non-white cultures and fusing them together. It's a valid criticism, but at the same time I understand why Disney prefers this approach over selecting a specific country. They believe they can appeal to more overseas markets this way as well as enjoy more creative freedom in portraying said region(s). If they chose a specific country, they'd have to very careful in being historically accurate. They wouldn't be able to pick the elements they liked from different eras and locations. They'd be confined to a clearly-defined time period and locale, otherwise they'd be strongly criticized. Mulan is still criticized for that reason decades later.

I agree. It's something that's always going to be a mixed bag, but I also don't think it's a good idea that they'd do only "white stories" just because it's more convenient. I can at least appreciate that they try to be more sensitive now than what they used to be even if it doesn't end up pleasing anyone. They have good intentions.

Sotiris wrote:Yes, I believe that's the case as well. I assume that was changed after Lasseter was ousted. He had a preference for male/female duos going on road trips and this is the first WDAS movie since he came on board that features a female/female pairing. That can't be a coincidence, right?

I guess you don't consider Frozen II to be female/female, but it's true about WDAS, in Pixar however they had Brave and Inside out. But I definitely agree that Lasseter might have had issues with films being too "feminine" (in Pixar at least).

DisneyFan09 wrote:What did you think about the trailer, Sotiris?

I thought it was just OK. A bit underwhelming. I expect the full trailer to be better. Well, at least I hope it is.

farerb wrote:I honestly don't understand how living up there makes sense, how do they get to the top? Seems really uncomfortable. Though it might be where the temple is in order to make it harder for people to get there.

Maybe pre-Druun invasion, the dragons flied them up there. I'm sure they developed some sort of system to get there, but I agree it's not a practical location to build a castle or anything else for that matter.

farerb wrote:But Moana wasn't a warrior at all, the only other warrior was Mulan.

Technically she wasn't a warrior, but she was physically tough (she hit Maui with the oar) and good at fighting and her scenes battling the kakamora were heavily promoted. They even made original animation of her fighting them like this one to market the movie.

Sotiris wrote:

Clindor wrote:But so many sequences of young Raya already being a perfect little ninja! Where does that come from?

That's a legitimate concern. Even though they show her training, she's already exceptionally good from a very young age. Hopefully, they'll show her failing and improving over time instead of being great at it from the start. In their eagerness to appear progressive, Hollywood has given us lots of Mary Sues lately. Fingers crossed, that won't be the case with Raya.

I don't really agree... But that's just me. D82 pointed out that the person she fights in the trailer is actually her father, so what we're watching in the teaser is probably a training exercise itself. Aside from that, do we wonder why Aladdin is so quick-witted and a great thief at the beginning of Aladdin? Or why Quasimodo can climb to and fro down the cathedral with no problem? We assume the life experience that made them that way without needing to see it. We know by the time we see Raya as an adult, her father will likely have been dead for some time and she's been seeking the dragon gem for most of her life. So it's not too weird to me that she would be good at what she does. I don't think any of the Revival princesses are Mary Sue's myself though. Again, that's just me.

Sotiris wrote:To me, young Tiana, Rapunzel, Elsa, Anna, and Moana all had better designs than young Raya. Personally, I don't like her design as a kid at all. There's something off with how her face is structured. I think it might be the inverted triangle face shape. Can't quite put my finger on it.

Looking back at that, I actually need to correct and say that I liked child Moana, too. She was really adorable. The others... Meh.

Sotiris wrote:I think you're right on the money. It makes perfect sense. The similarities to Moana are piling up though. I hope audiences don't write the movie off as a rip-off.

Right now, I don't quite see this movie as being that close to Moana, although I can understand why others would at the same time. For me... I mean, the desert locales are one thing. Raya is also more badass to me so far than Moana, who seemed like an average girl thrust into a destiny--a lot of her success was merely believing in herself ("Know Who You Are")--whereas Raya is actually a fighter. And she lacks the powers that Moana has. Then there's this not being a musical, which may feel like a superficial difference, but it will give the film a different feel, I think. I do see what could be written off as repeats. But then... Moana itself was a ripoff of Frozen and Tangled in some ways. Moana having control over the water versus Elsa's ice magic and Rapunzel's light powers; an impending apocalypse (Elsa's ice powers versus the darkness caused by Te Ka); going on an adventure with a disinterested male companion (Flynn, Kristoff); the myths at the beginning of Moana versus "Frozen Heart"... (And that's not even getting into all the callbacks to The Little Mermaid.) The jury's out on Sisu right now. She's wacky and comedic, but also described as wise--which isn't a word I'd apply to Maui, Kristoff, Vanellope, etc. And it sounds like she might willingly go along with Raya to attain her true form, unlike most of those characters who have to have their arms pulled.

Sotiris wrote: Yes, I believe that's the case as well. I assume that was changed after Lasseter was ousted. He had a preference for male/female duos going on road trips and this is the first WDAS movie since he came on board that features a female/female pairing. That can't be a coincidence, right?

That's right, this is the first Disney film with two female characters in both roles of the buddy roadtrip formula. I know PIXAR has had them already (Elinor - Merida in Brave; Joy - Sadness in Inside Out), but none for Disney before this. Well, I suppose you could say Frozen 2 was the first, , where Elsa and Anna are on equal footing and Kristoff is pushed more into the background.

Regarding the Korra-Raya similarities, both properties are inspired by South Asian cultures, so it makes sense that certain elements like clothes would intersect.

estefan wrote:Regarding the Korra-Raya similarities, both properties are inspired by South Asian cultures, so it makes sense that certain elements like clothes would intersect.

I see that a lot but IMO it didn't have to be THAT similar. We're talking about the same hairstyles, the same clothes (collar, sleeves and color). Seems to be more than just a coincidence.

blackcauldron85 wrote:^ Thank you so much for sharing all that info, D82!!! I would think that human-Sisu becoming dragon-Sisu would have been kept more of a secret...? That would have been a huge twist, right?

You're welcome. Yes, but Sisu will most likely be human during a large part of the movie, so it probably would've been difficult to hide that in trailers and other promotional material.

Disney's Divinity wrote:I'm wary about the band of misfits stuff, as far as if I'll like it or not. I think I'd rather it was just her and Sisu, but I understand they want to have characters who symbolize each of the five sections coming together to overcome divisiveness and stand against the darkness.

I'm not sure how I feel about that either. On the one hand, I like that it won't be a roadtrip between just two people once again; but on the other, I also fear Raya and Sisu won't have enough screen time if they'll have to share it with so many characters.

Sotiris wrote:It's a plausible theory, but something tell me it has been changed. Before, the horn looked like a bud or the tip of a bulb, but now it's made to look like two separate horns even in profile view.

Yeah, that's possible. I'm actually a bit worried about how she'll look like in the final film. I quite like the design they showed at D23, so I hope it hasn't changed for the worst.

Sotiris wrote:I think it's safe to say the little girl will grow be an antagonist or maybe even the real villain in the film. While her mom has a noble and wise expression in that shot, she looks displeased or slightly angry even.

You're right, that's already an indication that she could be an antagonist or the real villain.

Sotiris wrote:Yes, it's definitely her father. I wish they showed us his face. It was already revealed in August that her father is the one who gets killed and I doubt that plot point was changed since then. But there is the possibility her mom has also passed, like you said, since she isn't featured in that scene alongside her husband and daughter. Perhaps during childbirth? Unless, she was also killed (or petrified) by the Druun. That would make Raya the first orphan Disney Princess since Cinderella. By the way, I noticed there was no sign of Raya's younger brother who played the pan flute. Did he get axed like Moana's brothers? I say her brother because that was how his was referred to by people who saw the footage at the D23 Expo, but it might have been just an assumption on their part. I don't think his relation to Raya was ever confirmed. He might have been just a kid she met on her quest.

I wonder if the people who have been turned into stone will return to their original state once the Druun have been defeated or not. Maybe even Raya's father's/parents' death/s won't be permanent. Regarding the little boy, I think people just assumed it was her younger brother. I think he could be one of the misfits she encounters on her journey.

Sotiris wrote:I think she looks better in the Japanese poster and in the doll packaging where her features are more proportional. If she looks more like that in the final film, I'll be a happy camper. By the way, I noticed that her lips are completely colorless in the trailer which is another thing I didn't like about the way she looked there. Is having color in your lips considered too feminine nowadays? Her lips do have color in them on the posters and the doll packaging though. Why is there such a discrepancy between how she looks in promotional materials and in film?

You're right, her lips have more color in them in the poster and the doll packaging than in the trailer. I hadn't noticed that before. That definitely contributes to her looking different there. I actually prefer how she looks in the trailer, but she looks great to me in the other images too.

Sotiris wrote:Yes, I think people were turned into stone. Probably the work of the Druun. There's no way someone put some random statues in the middle of the desert. The fact there's a cart next to them is another indication they used to be real people.

That's true. At first, I wasn't sure whether they had been turned into stone or were just very still and covered in dust, but I later noticed they're also a bit sunk into the sand so it's clear they've been there for a long time. By the way, in this article it says there are leyends of people turning into stone in Southeast Asian folklore, so it's nice that it's based on something that exists in their culture.

Sotiris wrote:In different report from D23 Expo, it was revealed Raya was actively searching for the gem whereas now it seems she already knows where it is (since it was shown at the site of Raya's training in the trailer) and already has it in her possession (judging by the Japanese poster).

In the trailer Raya says she has trained her whole life to become a guardian of the Dragon Gem, so I guess her clan is the one responsible for protecting it. They do seem to have it in their possession at the beginning when Raya is a little girl, but I think it's possible the Druun, for example, steal it (maybe in the same attack where her father is killed) and she'll have to find it later, as well as the dragon. But, yes, she has it with her in the Japanese poster, so perhaps that part of the story has changed.

Sotiris wrote:I found another version of that poster that shows a little more of the environment.


Source: https://www.disney.co.jp/movie/raya.html

Thanks for posting! The colors and details are amazing.

Sotiris wrote:I like that her hair has blue and pink in them to parallel the colors of her dragon form.

Me too, it's a cool detail.

Sotiris wrote:

D82 wrote:And I now wonder if she's meant to look like an old woman or not. Maybe she just has whitish magical hair (similar to Elsa), but is supposed to have the appearance of a young woman.

I'm uncertain about that as well. The attendees at D23 Expo described her human form as an old woman, but they might have been deceived by the white hair. Disney casts their characters age-appropriately nowadays, so I don't think they would have hired Akwafina if the character was supposed to be an elderly woman. On the other hand, there's something about her that makes her look old and it's not her hair. Maybe it's her caricatured design or her exaggerated expression. Maybe it's her pose and her outfit that's giving me old lady vibes. I'm not quite sure.

I agree, she's like Clindor described her; it's difficult to tell whether she's old or young. I guess we'll get a better idea of that when we get to see actual footage of her moving and speaking.

Sotiris wrote:

D82 wrote:I'm very curious about the Druun. I wonder if they'll be human or some kind of monsters.

It's already been confirmed they're monsters.

But when sinister monsters known as the Druun threatened the land, the dragons sacrificed themselves to save humanity.

Source: https://movies.disney.com/raya-and-the-last-dragon

Oh, it's true. I had forgotten about it.

Sotiris wrote:I also believe that Raya was the element that was changed most radically, but along with her character some story details must have been changed as well to accommodate her new iteration.

Yes, I guess so.

Sotiris wrote:

D82 wrote:Has this synopsis been posted before? Maybe I've forgotten about it, but I don't remember having heard that Sisu was left on Earth on purpose in case the Druun returned.

That's an interesting detail. I wonder if she'll get a tragic backstory like having to witness her parents (do dragons even have parents?) sacrificing themselves and saying goodbye to her as she's left behind or how lonely it feels to be the last of your kind.

I also imagine she'll get some backstory and, like Maui in Moana, probably she'll need to overcome some emotional problem as well as the physical one of regaining her powers. Maybe she'll also feel guilty for not having sacrificed herself like the other dragons.

Sotiris wrote:

D82 wrote:Now that you mention Dragon Empire, I read some posts from the beginning of this thread the other day and the description of the characters from that earlier version of the story made me think that maybe the protagonist's 900 year old mentor was an earlier version of Sisu which was later turned into a female character.

Yes, I believe that's the case as well. I assume that was changed after Lasseter was ousted. He had a preference for male/female duos going on road trips and this is the first WDAS movie since he came on board that features a female/female pairing. That can't be a coincidence, right?

Maybe the idea of having Awkwafina voicing a role could've had something to do as well. Either way, I'm glad they chose to have a female dragon. Not only are they less common in fiction, but it's also refreshing for WDAS to have two female characters going in an adventure together.

Sotiris wrote:The "found family" angle is a refreshing change of pace and something that differentiates Raya from Moana as a story. Well, that's if the misfits are still part of the new version.

Yeah, they weren't mentioned in the article that was released in August nor in the teaser. They are, though, in the synopsis used for all the books about the movie listed on Amazon and other online stores, which seems updated because they also mention Kelly Marie Tran as the voice of Raya. I think they'll still be part of the movie since they seem important for the theme it wants to convey, though it's possible their role might've been reduced.

Sotiris wrote:

Disney's Divinity wrote:The girl who likely betrays Raya being an example of the opposite choice, most likely. Perhaps she is in charge of one of the sections when she and Raya are adults, and she's willing to sacrifice other groups of the 5 to help her own group survive rather than, like Raya, unite everyone together. Or perhaps it'll be a purely power thing, and she sees the opportunity for her group to rule over the others by using the threat of the Druun as a convenient way to divide and conquer the other groups?

Those are both interesting theories. I have a feeling they'll make her into a righteous villain who means well and cares about her people, but goes about it the wrong way.

It also occurred to me that she could be the secret leader of the Druun, but I don't know if that would make much sense. Most likely, it'll be something similar to one of your theories.

farerb wrote:I have a feeling that Raya will have a less straightforward narrative and focus more on action and less on comedy and music. But I hope they are different enough because I don't want to see "Tangled with snow" comments applied here again.

I'm suspecting more and more that this movie was conceived as a direct result of Moana's success. Like it happened with Frozen, which has many things in common with Tangled, I think they probably decided to do a similar movie instead of a sequel. I believe they'll be different enough, though.

Disney's Divinity wrote:Aside from that, do we wonder why Aladdin is so quick-witted and a great thief at the beginning of Aladdin? Or why Quasimodo can climb to and fro down the cathedral with no problem? We assume the life experience that made them that way without needing to see it. We know by the time we see Raya as an adult, her father will likely have been dead for some time and she's been seeking the dragon gem for most of her life. So it's not too weird to me that she would be good at what she does. I don't think any of the Revival princesses are Mary Sue's myself though. Again, that's just me.

It's true that when the protagonists are male we usually don't wonder how they can have those skills, so we shouldn't have that problem with female protagonists either. The only problem for me are cases like the live-action Mulan where if the main character had been male it wouldn't have been believable either.

Disney's Divinity wrote:And it sounds like she might willingly go along with Raya to attain her true form, unlike most of those characters who have to have their arms pulled.

I'm not so sure about that. I have a feeling Raya will have to convince her.

D82 wrote:The only problem for me are cases like the live-action Mulan where if the main character had been male it wouldn't have been believable either.

I agree, the way the Mulan re-make decided to tell its story was very dumb. I don't really see Raya as being like that film so far, which is why I wanted to say that.

D82 wrote:I wonder if the people who have been turned into stone will return to their original state once the Druun have been defeated or not. Maybe even Raya's father's/parents' death/s won't be permanent.

I speculate the other people who turned into stone will come back to life, just like nature will, but not Raya's father. I believe her mom died before the 2nd Druun attack so the point is moot, and I don't think her father was turned into stone like the rest. The Druun probably killed him the old-fashioned way. Since they are fierce monsters, they must have other abilities than turn people into stone. Perhaps he died during the mayhem or trying to protect his daughter.

D82 wrote:Regarding the little boy, I think people just assumed it was her younger brother. I think he could be one of the misfits she encounters on her journey.

I think so too. He's probably one of the misfits who tags along with her.

D82 wrote:In the trailer Raya says she has trained her whole life to become a guardian of the Dragon Gem, so I guess her clan is the one responsible for protecting it. They do seem to have it in their possession at the beginning when Raya is a little girl, but I think it's possible the Druun, for example, steal it (maybe in the same attack where her father is killed) and she'll have to find it later, as well as the dragon.

Going by the info we have so far, I think they will have it in their possession until the 2nd Druun attack which is when the gem will either get lost or stolen (perhaps by a leader of one of the tribes). By the way, we assumed that Raya's dad dies when she's a little girl, but I now believe he gets killed at present day, when Raya's all grown up, and that's when the 2nd Druun attack takes place.

D82 wrote:I also imagine she'll get some backstory and, like Maui in Moana, probably she'll need to overcome some emotional problem as well as the physical one of regaining her powers. Maybe she'll also feel guilty for not having sacrificed herself like the other dragons.

Yes, she'll most likely have to reach an emotional breakthrough of some kind such as getting over her survivor's guilt like you suggested.

D82 wrote:Yeah, they weren't mentioned in the article that was released in August nor in the teaser. They are, though, in the synopsis used for all the books about the movie listed on Amazon and other online stores, which seems updated because they also mention Kelly Marie Tran as the voice of Raya. I think they'll still be part of the movie since they seem important for the theme it wants to convey, though it's possible their role might've been reduced.

I didn't know they were mentioned in the book descriptions. I'm sure they'll be present in the final film now.

D82 wrote:It also occurred to me that she could be the secret leader of the Druun, but I don't know if that would make much sense.

That's actually a plausible theory. I think it does make sense. If the Druun attack again when Raya and the girl from the white clan are grown up, it's possible that she was the one who brought them back to spread chaos and division and seize the opportunity to make herself the new leader of Kumandra and turn her tribe into the ruling class of the land. Up until that point, it seems like Raya's dad was the head honcho of all the five tribes, much like how the President functions as the leader of everyone, even though each state has a Governor.

D82 wrote:I'm suspecting more and more that this movie was conceived as a direct result of Moana's success. Like it happened with Frozen, which has many things in common with Tangled, I think they probably decided to do a similar movie instead of a sequel.

That's an astute observation. I believe that as well.

D82 wrote:I'm not so sure about that. I have a feeling Raya will have to convince her.

The part in the description where it says that Sisu "needs Raya's help to reclaim her power to become her true dragon self" makes believe she wants to turn back into a dragon. So, I don't think she'll need much convincing as their partnership is mutually beneficial.

Sotiris wrote:I speculate the other people who turned into stone will come back to life, just like nature will, but not Raya's father. I believe her mom died before the 2nd Druun attack so the point is moot, and I don't think her father was turned into stone like the rest. The Druun probably killed him the old-fashioned way. Since they are fierce monsters, they must have other abilities than turn people into stone. Perhaps he died during the mayhem or trying to protect his daughter.

Your theory makes a lot of sense, plus parents' deaths in Disney films are usually permanent, so I guess you're right about that.

Sotiris wrote:Going by the info we have so far, I think they will have it in their possession until the 2nd Druun attack which is when the gem will either get lost or stolen (perhaps by a leader of one of the tribes). By the way, we assumed that Raya's dad dies when she's a little girl, but I now believe he gets killed at present day, when Raya's all grown up, and that's when the 2nd Druun attack takes place.

I think that's what will happen too, but it didn't occur to me that the gem could also be stolen by the leader of one of the other tribes. Regarding when Raya's father dies, I think the following words by Kelly Marie Tran confirm it happens when she's a child:

Tran adds that Raya "is such an incredible example of really finding yourself again after something defines you." For Raya, it's moving on from what she went through as a child, and for Tran, it's figuring out her career and narrative post-Star Wars.

Source: https://ew.com/movies/kelly-marie-tran- ... interview/

Sotiris wrote:

D82 wrote:It also occurred to me that she could be the secret leader of the Druun, but I don't know if that would make much sense.

That's actually a plausible theory. I think it does make sense. If the Druun attack again when Raya and the girl from the white clan are grown up, it's possible that she was the one who brought them back to spread chaos and division and seize the opportunity to make herself the new leader of Kumandra and turn her tribe into the ruling class of the land. Up until that point, it seems like Raya's dad was the head honcho of all the five tribes, much like how the President functions as the leader of everyone, even though each state has a Governor.

Oh, it's true. The way you explained it makes it look plausible. I was also wondering if the girl as an adult could be going after the leadership Raya's father seems to have, but I wasn't sure if he really had a more important position than the other chiefs or not. However, now I believe you're right about that. After all, they're the guardians of the gem and also look like they're above the rest in that shot where all the other tribes are in front of Raya and her father.

Sotiris wrote:

D82 wrote:I'm suspecting more and more that this movie was conceived as a direct result of Moana's success. Like it happened with Frozen, which has many things in common with Tangled, I think they probably decided to do a similar movie instead of a sequel.

That's an astute observation. I believe that as well.

I forgot to add that both films are produced by Osnat Shurer, so that could also be an indication that that was their plan from the beginning.

Sotiris wrote:The part in the description where it says that Sisu "needs Raya's help to reclaim her power to become her true dragon self" makes believe she wants to turn back into a dragon. So, I don't think she'll need much convincing as their partnership is mutually beneficial.

I understood that line as: that is what Sisu would need to become a dragon, not necessarily what she'll want (at least at first), but maybe I'm wrong. I actually hope you're right because I'm a bit tired of one part of the duo always being reluctant to team up at first (Naveen, Flynn Rider, Ralph, Kristoff, Nick Wilde, Maui... , not to mention all the examples from Pixar).

D82 wrote:

farerb wrote:I have a feeling that Raya will have a less straightforward narrative and focus more on action and less on comedy and music. But I hope they are different enough because I don't want to see "Tangled with snow" comments applied here again.

I'm suspecting more and more that this movie was conceived as a direct result of Moana's success. Like it happened with Frozen, which has many things in common with Tangled, I think they probably decided to do a similar movie instead of a sequel. I believe they'll be different enough, though.

This makes me SUPER HAPPY since Moana is my favorite modern Disney animated movie (by a long shot.)

D82 wrote:Regarding when Raya's father dies, I think the following words by Kelly Marie Tran confirm it happens when she's a child:

Tran adds that Raya "is such an incredible example of really finding yourself again after something defines you." For Raya, it's moving on from what she went through as a child, and for Tran, it's figuring out her career and narrative post-Star Wars.

Source: https://ew.com/movies/kelly-marie-tran- ... interview/

That complicates things. Is it confirmed that Raya's dad was killed by or during the Druun attack? The timeline of the Druun invasions is confusing. We know that the first one occurred 500 years ago and the dragons sacrificed themselves to make them go away. When did the second one take place? If it happened when Raya was still a kid, it would mean that there's been an ongoing Druun war for years. If that's the case, how come it has just now become urgent to find the dragon gem and the last dragon?

D82 wrote:I understood that line as: that is what Sisu would need to become a dragon, not necessarily what she'll want (at least at first), but maybe I'm wrong. I actually hope you're right because I'm a bit tired of one part of the duo always being reluctant to team up at first (Naveen, Flynn Rider, Ralph, Kristoff, Nick Wilde, Maui... , not to mention all the examples from Pixar).

You may be right. There has been a pattern with co-leads being unwilling participants. From the doll packaging, Sisu seemed very comfortable and jovial in her human form. Perhaps she grew accustomed to being human and is in no hurry to turn back into a dragon, after all.

Sotiris wrote:I thought it was just OK. A bit underwhelming. I expect the full trailer to be better. Well, at least I hope it is.

Honestly, the irreverent tone of the teaser is somewhat dissapointing. Since Disney actually dared to make their trailers for Frozen II being true to it`s authentic tone, it`s somewhat of a retrograde that they`re still relying of such irreverent marketing chops. But I guess it`s expected, anyways, regarding the stigma of movies for female demographics.

Sotiris wrote:Is it confirmed that Raya's dad was killed by or during the Druun attack? The timeline of the Druun invasions is confusing. We know that the first one occurred 500 years ago and the dragons sacrificed themselves to make them go away. When did the second one take place? If it happened when Raya was still a kid, it would mean that there's been an ongoing Druun war for years. If that's the case, how come it has just now become urgent to find the dragon gem and the last dragon?

Yeah, that part of the story is confusing. Raya's father being killed is only mentioned in the interview with Kelly Marie Tran the last quote I posted was from and it's not very clear there how or when he dies. Here's all they say about it there:

In the movie, Raya (voiced by Tran) is the daughter of the Chief of the Heart Lands, one of the five lands in the fictional kingdom of Kumandra. Years ago, dragons and humans lived in harmony, until monsters known as Druun invaded, forcing the dragons to sacrifice themselves and save humanity. Raya's father was also killed, and the film follows her journey as a warrior to find the last dragon, who she believes can save Kumandra.

Source: https://ew.com/movies/kelly-marie-tran- ... interview/

Sotiris wrote:From the doll packaging, Sisu seemed very comfortable and jovial in her human form. Perhaps she grew accustomed to being human and is in no hurry to turn back into a dragon, after all.

That's possible. And maybe she doesn't think she can defeat the Druun alone and is not willing to risk her life for what she considers a lost cause.

Some info about making the film under the pandemic:

Raya and the Last Dragon, from Walt Disney Animation, was not as fortunate. As one of the first Disney animated titles to be developed largely during lockdown, the film was about 50 percent done with animation by March, director Don Hall estimates. "That first, probably, couple weeks were the most tumultuous where everybody was getting set up," he recalls. "That was just everybody getting their internet updated and getting the rigs so that they can work at home. So, it was probably a two-week — I would imagine something like that — period. But then, it's just the good nature, the crew started to set in and everybody just got used to the rhythm of working."

Source: https://ew.com/movies/animation-boom-co ... -pandemic/


And I've noticed that some details from the synopsis for the film on WDAS' website have changed. All the references to the Druun have been replaced for an "evil force" and a couple of things have been added. Does this mean the Druun won't be in the final movie or did they just feel they were revealing too much before? The things that are different in both descriptions are in bold:

Previous synopsis

Long ago, in the fantasy world of Kumandra, humans and dragons lived together in harmony. But when sinister monsters known as the Druun threatened the land, the dragons sacrificed themselves to save humanity. Now, 500 years later, those same monsters have returned and it’s up to a lone warrior, Raya, to track down the last dragon in order to finally stop the Druun for good. However, along her journey, she’ll learn that it’ll take more than dragon magic to save the world—it’s going to take trust as well.

Current synopsis

Long ago, in the fantasy world of Kumandra, humans and dragons lived together in harmony. But when an evil force threatened the land, the dragons sacrificed themselves to save humanity. Now, 500 years later, that same evil has returned and it’s up to a lone warrior, Raya, to track down the legendary last dragon to restore the fractured land and its divided people. However, along her journey, she’ll learn that it’ll take more than a dragon to save the world—it’s going to take trust & teamwork as well.

Interesting. If I had to guess I think the Druun are cut, I think the evil force will be unknown throughout the beginning of the film - someone or something that turns people into stone, and each tribe suspects the other. This evil force will later be revealed to be a twist villainess, who wants to control Kumandra by herself through fear.

D82 wrote:And I've noticed that some details from the synopsis for the film on WDAS' website have changed. All the references to the Druun have been replaced for an "evil force" and a couple of things have been added. Does this mean the Druun won't be in the final movie or did they just feel they were revealing too much before?

Disney keeps changing their synopses! First Luca and now Raya. I think it's too late in the game for the Druun to be cut. They don't have the time to scrap this idea and go down a different route. If the change happened a while ago, they would have been prepared and wouldn't have released outdated info to the press, right? I think some details about the Druun may have changed, like their name, for example, but not their role in the film.

farerb wrote:I think the evil force will be unknown throughout the beginning of the film - someone or something that turns people into stone, and each tribe suspects the other. This evil force will later be revealed to be a twist villainess, who wants to control Kumandra by herself through fear.

I find your idea more interesting and I actually hope the Druun have been indeed cut, even though I don't believe that's the case. I never liked having group of monsters as the threat or the antagonist in the film.