DVDizzy Forum

PatrickvD wrote:

PrincessElsa wrote: Does he? I wasn't aware of that.

That makes my already considerable admiration of the man even greater.

Sorry I shouldn't have reopened that can of worms. It's rumored mostly. And an assumption on my part.

There's been this assumption in general, echoed by PIXAR greatly, that nothing good was coming out of WDFA during PIXAR's glory years and right before the buyout by Disney.

Lilo & Stitch is often ignored (along with New Groove) because it does not fit the theory that Disney had been completely broken for years when PIXAR/Lasseter stepped in.

Whatever its popularity, I personally think Lilo & Stitch is a terrible film. Watched it once and never wish to subject myself to it again.

New Groove is not bad, though its humor gets tired on a second viewing and tedious on a third.

When did Mr. Lasseter come on board? I personally think Disney declined terribly after Lion King (Pocahontas is the bridge) and only revived with Tangled. Only a few marginal blips in between, like New Groove.

What I've read of Frozen, more than a few of its best decisions stem from Lasseter.

PrincessElsa wrote: Whatever its popularity, I personally think Lilo & Stitch is a terrible film. Watched it once and never wish to subject myself to it again.

I get maybe not liking it (it's an acquired taste in terms of style) but terrible? Which movie did you see?

PrincessElsa wrote:New Groove is not bad, though its humor gets tired on a second viewing and tedious on a third.

New Groove's strength lies solely in repeat viewings. If there's one movie on planet earth that never gets old it's The Emperor's New Groove, so I have NO idea what you mean when you say it gets tired after multiple viewings.. It's endlessly quotable and so brilliantly fast paced and quick-witted.

But I've known for awhile now the average Disney fan has trouble connecting to it. It's a Warner Bros film disguised as a Disney film. Chuck Jones is smiling down on this one. Easily one of Disney animation's finest if you'd ask me.

I find Lilo and New Groove two gems. What they both have in common is that they were made away from Disney's micromanagement team that was destroying the studio. And proof of the immense talent working for Disney at the time.

When did Mr. Lasseter come on board? I personally think Disney declined terribly after Lion King (Pocahontas is the bridge) and only revived with Tangled. Only a few marginal blips in between, like New Groove.

I think Mulan and Tarzan were just as good as most of the movies before Lion King, and better than Pocahontas. I didn't like Lilo and Stitch either though, despite it being pretty successful. I'm glad Disney seems to be on a resurgeance again. Hopefully one day they will do handdrawn again too.

PatrickvD you are my hero.

I want to marry you.

PatrickvD wrote:Del Vecho is basically a puppet. Lasseter's hand is so far up his *** you can barely tell when it's him speaking and when it's just Lasseter's PR machine-bullshit...

What's more ridiculous about his comment is that Del Vecho himself confirmed in 2009 that The Snow Queen was going to be hand-drawn. I'm incredibly tired of their same ol' PR nonsense about director-driven studios and the like. No one is buying it anymore. Not to mention the constant tiptoeing around the issue of 2D animation at the studio. Just come out and admit it already.

dollover wrote:

When did Mr. Lasseter come on board? I personally think Disney declined terribly after Lion King (Pocahontas is the bridge) and only revived with Tangled. Only a few marginal blips in between, like New Groove.

I think Mulan and Tarzan were just as good as most of the movies before Lion King, and better than Pocahontas. I didn't like Lilo and Stitch either though, despite it being pretty successful. I'm glad Disney seems to be on a resurgeance again. Hopefully one day they will do handdrawn again too.

I predict that the hand-drawn revival will happen in 10-15 years from now.

What keeps Lilo and Stitch from being a great film is that sometimes the space alien element does somewhat clash with the broken family aspect. I will agree that TENG is a halarious film that never ever gets old when I watch it several times. Yzma and Kronk are the best parts of that movie no arguement here.

But going back to Frozen. I still can't believe what I had read: "Channeling their inner Alan Menken and Howard Ashman". Okay, THAT is very HIGH praise man!

Sotiris wrote:

PatrickvD wrote:Del Vecho is basically a puppet. Lasseter's hand is so far up his *** you can barely tell when it's him speaking and when it's just Lasseter's PR machine-bullshit...

What's more ridiculous about his comment is that Del Vecho himself confirmed in 2009 that The Snow Queen was going to be hand-drawn. I'm incredibly tired of their same ol' PR nonsense about director-driven studios and the like. No one is buying it anymore. Not to mention the constant tiptoeing around the issue of 2D animation at the studio. Just come out and admit it already.

They're SO scared of the bad PR that might come with the truth. That they're no longer doing hand drawn.

I would respect them so much more if they were just honest about it. I might not agree with the fact that they're not doing hand drawn right now, but I'm not going to argue the business aspect of this decision. And honesty just goes a long way.

Did you see the rehearsed answers the cast gives regarding Chris Buck and Jennifer Lee? Buck is the Disney legend guy while Jennifer Lee is a Lasseter-hired writer who brings all the character development.

Because you know, Disney doesn't know anything about character development. PIXAR invented it, and pre-2006 were dark days regarding characterization. Anna is the first Disney princess we can relate to. (we hear this every time a new princess comes around).

Same old same old.

I don't mean to be rude but shouldn't we talk about Disney's problems in the "Hand-Drawn Animation is Dead" topic?

Sorry...

PatrickvD wrote:Because you know, Disney doesn't know anything about character development. PIXAR invented it, and pre-2006 were dark days regarding characterization. Anna is the first Disney princess we can relate to. (we hear this every time a new princess comes around).

Same old same old.

Yes, it's a bit like Bond girls. Every single actress who is cast as a Bond girl always says, in interviews, that she's going to play "a different kind of Bond girl." They all say that. Every one, every time. The directors say the same things of each film's "new Bond girl" too. I'm waiting for some director or actress to say something truly original and announce that their film will feature a classic Bond girl or a classic Disney princess.

Personally, I find Anna spectacularly unrelatable. But different strokes...

Edit: This post was useless.

And no, I wasn't commenting about Del Vecho/Lasseter/PR.

PrincessElsa wrote:

PatrickvD wrote:Because you know, Disney doesn't know anything about character development. PIXAR invented it, and pre-2006 were dark days regarding characterization. Anna is the first Disney princess we can relate to. (we hear this every time a new princess comes around).

Same old same old.

Yes, it's a bit like Bond girls. Every single actress who is cast as a Bond girl always says, in interviews, that she's going to play "a different kind of Bond girl." They all say that. Every one, every time. The directors say the same things of each film's "new Bond girl" too. I'm waiting for some director or actress to say something truly original and announce that their film will feature a classic Bond girl or a classic Disney princess.

Personally, I find Anna spectacularly unrelatable. But different strokes...

Actually what I hear a lot of times from actresses or animators in interviews is that the latest is "not your typical Disney princess." Kelly McDonald being the latest. Yes! I get it! You guys are trying to make these princesses different from Snow White and Aurora which is all good and wonderful. But you don't have to shove it down our throats!

PatrickvD wrote:Am I the only one rolling eyes whenever one of the cast members says in an interview that the sister love theme is new to Disney? I GET it, Lasseter dislikes Lilo & Stitch, but the sister relationship in that film is not some minor element. It was beautifully written and incredibly relatable. Even the broken home theme is pretty much repeated in Frozen. It's really similar when you think about it.

I agree. Lilo & Stitch is a terrific film. This reminds me how Pixar kept putting down Disney princesses when promoting Brave and acting as if strong female heroines never existed before Merida.

PatrickvD wrote:New Groove's strength lies solely in repeat viewings. If there's one movie on planet earth that never gets old it's The Emperor's New Groove, so I have NO idea what you mean when you say it gets tired after multiple viewings. It's endlessly quotable and so brilliantly fast paced and quick-witted. It's a Warner Bros film disguised as a Disney film. Chuck Jones is smiling down on this one. Easily one of Disney animation's finest if you'd ask me.

I feel the same way about the film too.

PatrickvD wrote:I would respect them so much more if they were just honest about it. I might not agree with the fact that they're not doing hand drawn right now, but I'm not going to argue the business aspect of this decision. And honesty just goes a long way.

Exactly.

PatrickvD wrote:Because you know, Disney doesn't know anything about character development. PIXAR invented it, and pre-2006 were dark days regarding characterization. Anna is the first Disney princess we can relate to. (we hear this every time a new princess comes around).

I know. The sad thing is the general public actually believes that. Personally, I'm not fond of Anna's "I'm awkward and quirky and relatable" schtick.

And the sour grapes speculation and interpretation of things strikes again.

jazzflower92 wrote:And the sour grapes speculation and interpretation of things strikes again.

I know right...

Seriously, we should get back on topic. This whole management of WDAS and Pixar should be talked about somewhere else.

Sotiris wrote:

PatrickvD wrote:Because you know, Disney doesn't know anything about character development. PIXAR invented it, and pre-2006 were dark days regarding characterization. Anna is the first Disney princess we can relate to. (we hear this every time a new princess comes around).

I know. The sad thing is the general public actually believes that. Personally, I'm not fond of Anna's "I'm awkward and quirky and relatable" schtick.

Exactly. And it's also precisely the same way they were selling Rapunzel three years ago. "She's quirky, awkward and barefoot".... Not to mention Merida. She was also 'different'. It's such a silly PR trick.

Musical Master wrote:

jazzflower92 wrote:And the sour grapes speculation and interpretation of things strikes again.

I know right...

Seriously, we should get back on topic. This whole management of WDAS and Pixar should be talked about somewhere else.

Yeah, maybe we can discuss how Elsa compares with other portrayals of the Snow Queen. The Snow Queen through the years has been shown in a villainous, neutral, and even misunderstood light. Although in my opinion I find Elsa one of the most unique interpretations of the Snow Queen because of the fact that she is also a composite character of Kai from the original story. In a way Elsa is also a gender flip version of Kai.

Of course, hiding a film's production past (unless it was a project that "Walt Disney had planned") is nothing new for Disney and has happened even before the Lasseter regime. Just look at how the bonus features on the Emperor's New Groove DVD make zero mention of Kingdom of the Sun. It's impressive enough as it is that Sting's original KofS songs ended up on the soundtrack.

I wouldn't be surprised if press releases and interviews for Beauty and the Beast way back in '91 made no mention of the Richard Purdum version and pretended it was always going to be a musical.

janesjubilee wrote:Bobby and Kristen Lopez interviews from Trailer Addict.

They sing bits of Let It Go and Do You Want to Build a Snowman? in the first part
and For the First Time in Forever, Love is an Open Door, and In Summer in the second part.

That little Elsa's melody in "Do You Wanna build a snowman?" is great. I love that they did that.

new japanese trailer with new footage and new music

http://cinema.pia.co.jp/news/161214/54316/

The instrumental at the beginning is "For the First Time in Forever," yes?

Well done, Japan. We already got a good trailer in the states, but yours is nonetheless of high quality.