DVDizzy Forum

I'm just finishing up Adele's 19 and will listen to her sophomore album (21) right after.

Bob looks very becoming in his mustache and eye patch!

I've been listening to Kanye Wests My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy on repeat today, its pretty much an album I can listen to all the way through with the exception of one song. But my favorite tracks are: Dark Fantasy, Power, All of the Lights, Devil in a New Dress, and Lost in the World.

Just listened to the Ramones self titled debut[/img]

Lady Gaga - "Heavy Metal Lover"

Just what I needed to hear right now.

Mr. Toad wrote:Just listened to the Ramones self titled debut

WOW!!! You're back! You've been gone at least a year!

Just some stuff by the greatest songwriter to ever live.

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3 Doors Down- Here Without You

That I am.

JohnnyWeir wrote:Bob looks very becoming in his mustache and eye patch!

Did I miss something?

Avaitor wrote:Just some stuff by the greatest songwriter to ever live.

I think Mr. Zappa has to get in line behind Mr. Dylan, Mr. Lennon, Mr. McCartney and Mr. Simon.

Lazario wrote:Lady Gaga - "Heavy Metal Lover"

Just what I needed to hear right now.

This song is SO FREAKING ADDICTIVE!! I could have it on repeat for hours and not get tired of it. I also really love Scheisse and Bad Kids.

Goliath wrote: Did I miss something?

Yeah, I was referring to Lazarios Anti-Bob Dylan signature, but I guess he's switched it back.

JohnnyWeir wrote:Bob looks very becoming in his mustache and eye patch!

JohnnyWeir wrote:

Goliath wrote:Did I miss something?

Yeah, I was referring to Lazarios Anti-Bob Dylan signature, but I guess he's switched it back.

Yes, because I don't have a thing against Bob Dylan (and... maybe a little because I didn't want moderation getting ticked at me for using what could be considered a sexual phrase in my signature). There are a few CD's of his lying around my place. I keep thinking about borrowing them but... why? I still contend that music was not created so that people would sit and pontificate on it rather than enjoying it and letting it really move them (imagine that pretentious thing some people do when they imitate a conductor waving their baton / wand / stick, you know they're doing it more for the "benefit" of anyone who would see them than they're having an orgasm listening to it). I believe music is more like a natural drug while some others dip into other kinds of drugs and use music more for the reasons I believe books were designed for. I don't walk around wearing my music (this is not an attack on T-shirts or memorabilia), ya know? Expecting people to think I'm so dignified because I listen to this or that. Same as my taste in movies.

JohnnyWeir wrote:

Lazario wrote:Lady Gaga - "Heavy Metal Lover"

Just what I needed to hear right now.

This song is SO FREAKING ADDICTIVE!!

It definitely grows on you. But I've had my fill after one listen which is my mark of a really good song.

JohnnyWeir wrote:I also really love Scheisse and Bad Kids.

I liked the latter more than the former at first, now I've switched. "Bad Kids" is still good.


Now I'm playing some Rihanna. Damn, she's incredible. Even her non-singles. I'm on "Say It" right now. Wait, now I'm on "Lemme Get That" (better than a song with a title like that has any right to be).

I started with "Crazy Little Thing Called Love" (which should have been a single) and "A Million Miles Away," which may not be a good example of how well she can sing but nevertheless is beautiful.

Goliath wrote:

Avaitor wrote:Just some stuff by the greatest songwriter to ever live.

I think Mr. Zappa has to get in line behind Mr. Dylan, Mr. Lennon, Mr. McCartney and Mr. Simon.

Hmm, maybe, but they're all fantastic songwriters. I'd also put Lou Reed, Tom Petty, and Steve Harris on that pedestal as well. But it's really hard to compete with Zappa and his huge discography.

And maybe Neil Peart. Got Rush's Permanent Waves on now.

Lazario wrote:I still contend that music was not created so that people would sit and pontificate on it rather than enjoying it and letting it really move them

And what makes you think Dylan doesn't do that for me?

Well, too bad you can't see/hear/feel his music can do that. That's your loss.

On shuffle while I am playing on the computer:

Highway 61 Revisited - Bob Dylan

The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan - Bob Dylan

^I love that there are so many fellow Bob Dylan lovers at UD
I'm listening to:
Positively 4th Street-Bob Dylan
Tell Me Momma-Bob Dylan
Sutck Inside of Mobile with the Memphis Blues Again-Bob Dylan
Queen Jane Approximately-Bob Dylan
Born To Run-Bruce Springsteen

dvdjunkie wrote:On shuffle while I am playing on the computer:

Highway 61 Revisited - Bob Dylan

The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan - Bob Dylan

Good choice! But have you ever listened to his late 1970's albums? More and more I appreciate them better than the more wel-known 1960's albums.

Goliath wrote:

Good choice! But have you ever listened to his late 1970's albums? More and more I appreciate them better than the more wel-known 1960's albums.

I like most of his albums, but these two CD's don't wander to far from my five-disc machine. It was just a mood I was in today. I listen to a lot more of Dylan than I did before finding you here on UD. I had forgotten how much I truly like his music.

I have a great 'bootleg' Cd that I bought at a Swap Meet that has a collection of his songs from the 70's and 80's, it is kind of a 'greatest hits' in the eyes of some other fan. Last two songs on the CD are from the Traveling Wilburys first album.

Goliath wrote:

Lazario wrote:I still contend that music was not created so that people would sit and pontificate on it rather than enjoying it and letting it really move them

And what makes you think Dylan doesn't do that for me?

Well, too bad you can't see/hear/feel his music can do that. That's your loss.

Maybe I just hate "old" music.

In my opinion, music's about emotions and I've only ever heard you describe Dylan intellectually. You seemed to cull your emotions out of analyzing his music afterthefact (so, no, I can't imagine you dancing to it or it bringing out the "I'm shutting the fuck up now" side of you). I've heard enough Dylan to make me think you're right in describing him academically. But I'm just not interested in academic music (take my favorite artist, Björk, for exampe; here's what her academic music sounds like, here's what her real music sounds like). I prefer music that doesn't need to be served to the listener with an essay attached to it. (Although I appreciate why people do that with Dylan; otherwise, how would anyone know any emotion went into even the making of his songs?)


On that note - something interesting yet fun that is modern and gets in a nice jab, emotionally:

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I just threw this at Avaitor as a reference in Chat, not expecting it to become my latest fascination. Great video, too.

Lazario wrote:In my opinion, music's about emotions and I've only ever heard you describe Dylan intellectually. You seemed to cull your emotions out of analyzing his music afterthefact (so, no, I can't imagine you dancing to it or it bringing out the "I'm shutting the fuck up now" side of you). I've heard enough Dylan to make me think you're right in describing him academically. [...] I prefer music that doesn't need to be served to the listener with an essay attached to it.

Well, you're partly right: Dylan's music is not made to dance to. But you're wrong when you think you need to approach his songs 'academically' (whatever you mean by that). It takes no essay to immediately understand and enjoy a beautiful love song like 'Boots of Spanish Leather' (1964). You hear the song like you're reading a poem. It's a duet in which Dylan sings both parts. It's a very simple tale about a guy who's moving away and a girl who doesn't want to see him go. The theme of saying goodbye to a loved one is so universal that everybody can understand it. The emotion is not only in the lyrics, but in his singing as well, as he sings right from the heart. How does that need an essay?

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And there are many more examples of raw, basic, universal human emotion in Dylan's songs. I admit that in the 1960's, most of his songs were either 'topical songs' (criticizing and questioning society) or absurd, abstract word-playing ('stream-of-conscious songwriting') and that's what he's most famous for, but even in those years, and certainly in the 1970's and beyond (especially since the re-birth of his career in the late 1990's), he also wrote those heart-wrenching emotional pieces.

Take a song like 'Standing in the Doorway' (1997), where he sings stuff like:

I know I can't win
But my heart just won't give in

Last night I danced with a stranger
But she just reminded me you are the one
You left me standing in the doorway crying
In the dark land of the sun

Maybe when you take the lyrics apart from the music and the singing, I appreciate them intellectually and I admire the way Dylan was able to translate such feelings in perfectly crafted sentences. But when I listen to that song, it's not my mind that gets moved, but my feelings. It appeals to my experiences in life, not to my intellect. And if anybody else had sung it, it wouldn't have moved me at all. His way of presenting the material (phrasing, timing, intonation, building the structure with his voice) is what gets to me.

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It becomes clear when somebody else tries to sing Dylan. Take Adele and 'Make You Feel My Love'. Nice try and it makes a good pop song for the top 40 on mainstream radio, but it sounds so meaningless when she sings it. Though the lyrics and structure are the same as Dylan's version (1997). But Dylan, in his 60's when he recorded the song, knew what he was singing about. He has the life experience to give a convincing, touching, heartfelt account of love. That's why his version moves me and Adele's version doesn't.

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And if this post sounds academically to you, too, it's because I don't know how else to describe the way his music moves me. It just does. You just can't dance to it. Although... maybe to 'Tight Connection to My Heart' (1984)?

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Hey, give the guy a break, it was the 1980's!

Or maybe you can dance to his live version of 'All Along the Watchtower' (1968)? Though Jimi Hendrix has to be credited for coming up with the definitive arrangement.

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This entire post was written after listening to your song picks.

Goliath wrote:Well, you're partly right: Dylan's music is not made to dance to.

That was just one example. A lot of rock music isn't dance music but you can tell when you hear it what the artist's intention was for the listener to do while it plays or you knew what emotions the song was meant to bring out.

Goliath wrote:But you're wrong when you think you need to approach his songs 'academically' (whatever you mean by that).

Actually, I was describing my reaction to the majority of the songs I've heard from him. I mean that the listener thinks about what the song could mean rather than trying to enjoy it. Analyzing its' nuances - because that's what it is, one big pile of nuances instead of something that feels like it carries any weight to it. Remember that this is my personal take on Dylan as well as academic music (probably made famous by the likes of Yoko Ono). I'm saying that between enjoying and understanding, that unless you've spent a lot of time with Bob Dylan- a listener is likely to only walk away with a small percentage of either. Unless their definition of enjoying is to sit and think about music, or put it on in the background and forget about it.

Based on my experience with him. Which I admit is rough.

With the exception of his song for the Wonder Boys soundtrack, all his music I've heard thus far has been a flatline. He might have been aiming for poignance (a word I abuse sometimes; I mean the point of his music is to brood about something unfortuate in a rustic, Earthy way) but, musically, he couldn't get a song off the ground. Making me think the music was far more relevant when it was first released than it is now. At least then, when he got his name value, he was able to move and shape the culture. Shockingly I actually heard another one on the radio last weekend that I'd never heard before- but same thing happened there. His singing was... unconventional, the music was hardly something I'd imagine people turned on the radio to hear, the lyrics were ridiculous, and it all came together poorly (rather than comfortably since those qualities usually suit each other). Now, any of those are things not necessarily libel to bother me when listening to a song but honestly, I just wasn't feeling it. I could only imagine you saying, if I could remember the name of the song (I remember he said the word "Serve" a lot- "you gotta serve"), that it wasn't one of his best. So I shouldn't use that to form an initial impression. Which is fair.

(Another good example to use in describing how Dylan makes me feel is Paul Simon. I literally hated him when I was a kid, with the exception of 2 songs: One - you can imagine why I like this one: DRUMS, baby - & Two, for nostalgia reasons and because my mother didn't overplay it, not like... this one, which I hate like I can't begin to describe. Oh, wait? Any sense of connection? His lyrics turn me off and his singing just makes me want to pinch his cheeks to creep him out. Same goes for Dylan, his cultural preciousness makes me gag. Of course the difference between him and those songs by Simon is that it seems Paul and the people who worked with him cared about making the sound of the music seem revolutionary, potent, alive. Dylan's more pop / dance music (your 80's example for one, which Bruce Springsteen did better anyway with, you name it: "Tunnel of Love," "Dancing in the Dark," "Glory Days" , but also the song from Wonder Boys) even sounds like a take on something he saw somewhere else. It sure doesn't sound original but perhaps his lyrics for a song like that (or his vocals) earn him appreciation by fans anyway because it's like his version of satire. (Just one example.)

With most of my first reply, I was meaning to take the blame on myself for just not thinking the music was valid. Anymore. I guess I wasn't joking so much when I said "I hate old music." I just find poetic lyrics with old-fashioned genres of music sounds so silly today. This is of course ridiculous for me to say because I'm getting older. But I just never had that moment where I looked at today's pop or rock and thought: "what the hell happened to music." I'll tell you one reason why- if you had suffered through as much awful post-industrial, 90's heavy metal as I was forced to thanks to my younger brother and best friend (she loved Slipknot)... you would have PRAYED for a Lady Gaga to come along! Here are some examples of the lovely stuff that made me such a fan of, as you put it, "all those blonde girls on the charts right now" (and for Info Sake, I can't name a single Taylor Swift or Hanna Montana song- I think she was blonde): Slipknot, Staind, Linkin Park, Papa Roach, Disturbed, and the 4 thousand other bands just like them... What a bunch of idiotic, self-indulgent, brainless, whiny twats. After that shit, any change was fine with me. Whether it've been Emo, Dubstep, Club. I went into a minor "oh, really?" numbness when it came to any new music to pop up when this nu-metal garbage started fading.

Or I just never dug Dylan's style. Tom Petty was like my replacement for Bob Dylan. Now his music really did something for me. Even his blander songs seemed to me to be the stuff Bob was trying to do done right. I'm surprised you haven't said any magic words yet about the style of his music or vocal delivery. "Blues" might be one. That's a genre I have absolutely no experience with apart from Bob. Blues-folk? If folk is something more along the lines of Jeffeson Airplane, there's another act I'll take over Dylan anyday (especially this very "Willow's Song"esque song). The music for a band like that seems to be aware of the lyrics from the singer. I feel like Dylan is completely detached from the music, his vocals and lyrics. I would never argue he isn't one of the most important and influential artists / musicians in modern - and classic - music hsitory. And, in fact, I could easily see his approach to music as being revolutionary in the 60's and 70's. But now? I can't get a grip on it, let alone find it as incredible as you do. To me, "approach" is the right word to describe Dylan. He was on his way to music and never quite got there.

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Goliath wrote:It takes no essay to immediately understand and enjoy a beautiful love song like 'Boots of Spanish Leather' (1964).

But it might take the work of a defibrillator to wake the listener up after it's finished.

Goliath wrote:You hear the song like you're reading a poem.

No doubt. In fact, that's how I pretty much heard it myself. Of course... poetry never did much for me. I believe people find what is poetic, meaningful, and moving for themselves. I don't believe in a shared poetic experience. I think Dylan and a selected amount of listeners will find it means more to them than anyone else. I'm pretty cyncial like that.

It also can't help that I find it reminds me of one of my most-hated songs ever .

Goliath wrote:It's a duet in which Dylan sings both parts. It's a very simple tale about a guy who's moving away and a girl who doesn't want to see him go. The theme of saying goodbye to a loved one is so universal that everybody can understand it. The emotion is not only in the lyrics, but in his singing as well, as he sings right from the heart. How does that need an essay?

Well, I listened to it three times before pressing the "Submit" button and, without reading your explanation, I wouldn't have had a clue what the story was.

But again, to offer something of a truce here (because I care about discussing and understanding people's opinions about music): I believe people are meant to appreciate different messages according to the kind of person they are. You say it's about a loved one but he does say "my sweet kiss," so... it's not a goodbye song that applies to any loved one.

Goliath wrote:And there are many more examples of raw, basic, universal human emotion in Dylan's songs. I admit that in the 1960's, most of his songs were either 'topical songs' (criticizing and questioning society) or absurd, abstract word-playing ('stream-of-conscious songwriting') and that's what he's most famous for, but even in those years, and certainly in the 1970's and beyond (especially since the re-birth of his career in the late 1990's), he also wrote those heart-wrenching emotional pieces.

Take a song like 'Standing in the Doorway' (1997)

This one I will admit to thinking is pretty good. Does it break my portrait of him that I'm sticking to to make these arguments? Only about as much as "Things Have Changed." I'm not too stiff to suggest that I think his best work may have been the 90's and up.

Goliath wrote:It becomes clear when somebody else tries to sing Dylan. Take Adele and 'Make You Feel My Love'. Nice try and it makes a good pop song for the top 40 on mainstream radio, but it sounds so meaningless when she sings it. Though the lyrics and structure are the same as Dylan's version (1997). But Dylan, in his 60's when he recorded the song, knew what he was singing about. He has the life experience to give a convincing, touching, heartfelt account of love. That's why his version moves me and Adele's version doesn't.

I'm not completely sold on Adele yet. I don't find her singing to be the slightest bit original (I can't put my finger on them, but she's a few different singers put together). I had to YouTube her version of Dylan's song because I've never heard it before.

Wiki also tells me Billy Joel did a version of it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8fynLx6tYI (I'm too lazy to do the URL code + color shade for this one).

I listened to all 3 of them and didn't like a single one. This time, credit (read: blame) might not belong to Dylan: a boring song is just a boring song. Although, Adele's piano accompaniment was the sweetest (yuck, right?).

Goliath wrote:'Tight Connection to My Heart' (1984)?

No.

Goliath wrote:Hey, give the guy a break, it was the 1980's!

Oh, don't worry. Bob gets an immediate and full pardon for that one. If anyone deserves to be strangled for a bad bluesy-pop 80's song it's the guy who made, and everyone who had a hand in marketing and releasing, this... THING!. Pure "musical" vomit.

Last: Ariel Pink's Haunted Graffiti - Round and Round

Now: Cults - Go Outside

Next: The Radio Dept. - Keen on Boys

I'm listening to Voltaire's marvellous "God Thinks."