DVDizzy Forum

Sotiris wrote:

PatrickvD wrote:I also went to art school.

How come you never posted any of your work here? Do you have a blog or a deviantArt account?

Haven't posted anything online in years. But I'm working on a project at the moment and I'm going to open a thread for it in the off topic section when it's ready. So stay tuned!

PatrickvD wrote: I also went to art school. Most people that went there go on to do something else. There's only so much art needed in the world.

Well depends on which art school you go to. I go to SVA in NYC and from what I know, most of them DO end up going into some sort of art field job. In my case, I'm studying to be a comic cartoonist and SVA is known to have even professors who work for Marvel or DC. Great school in helping you you end up in getting a job you dream or desire to go into.

But yes, you do have a point and it is true that being an artist especially if going for fine art career, is a living that is very hard to to make and thus people go to do something else in order to make a living for themselves.

Super Aurora wrote:wait, didn't you say to me that drawing and the art you do online is just mostly a hobby thing and you're real job has nothing art related? If you went to art school, what you study to be then and did you get to achieve that?

It still is mostly a hobby, although I make some extra money with various freelance jobs, mostly through digital clean-up and coloring. I got to draw & color a comic cover a while back that has yet to be published. A few years back I did some studio work with pixel animation for an LCD toy. I was also an airbrush artist for several years but was laid off when the business was going under.

Back in high school, my art earned me a scholarship that paid for one year of college in Chicago! I wanted to study animation but that particular school didn't offer it, so I just started out with general studies like Life Drawing (here's one of my few surviving pieces), Art History, and Fundamentals. And let's just say it was a really rough year. It was a "fine art" college that mostly looked down their noses over the likes of cartoons and comics, which is odd because it's the school Alex Ross attended! We didn't go at the same time but I did have his Life Drawing teacher, who specifically wanted me in her class after reviewing my portfolio. She was the most wonderful lady and her class was one of the only positives experiences I got out of the place. I returned home every weekend to spend time with family as my mom had been diagnosed with breast cancer. Due to various reasons, I didn't return after my freshman year. That's about the time my mom became terminally ill as the cancer spread. She and I temporarily moved to a different part of the country so she could seek some new treatments, but we lost her the following spring.

It was a difficult time for all involved. I won't go into details here, but watching her slowly die over the course of several months apparently crippled my artistic side. I stopped drawing for years. Although I eventually picked up a job as an airbrush artist, most of the enthusiasm I'd had for creating artwork was completely gone. Aside from some small projects here and there, I didn't start drawing again with any serious intent until around 2005 (a full decade after leaving school) when I realized I could connect with people if posted art online. Most of what I know now is self-taught.

I'm planning on applying for studio work once we move to California, but that's a ways off yet. I've had people in the business tell me I'd make a great colorist, and coloring is what I love to do most these days.

PatrickvD wrote:I also went to art school. Most people that went there go on to do something else. There's only so much art needed in the world.

Hey, we need all the art we can get! The thing is that there's only so many paying jobs.

PatrickvD wrote:Haven't posted anything online in years. But I'm working on a project at the moment and I'm going to open a thread for it in the off topic section when it's ready. So stay tuned!

Looking forward to it!

Yeah, the "paid" part is the keyword there - the world can never have too much art, though.

Unfortunately, I can attest to the fact that it really depends on where you go to school. I was in the University of Michigan arts program, who unfortunately was much more fine arts focused as well. Looking down their noses at animation and art made for entertainment. Fortunately, I realized that in today's world most creative jobs take place in the entertainment and/or product industry in some form or another, so I got out of there as quick as I could. The kids that graduate there unfortunately seem to go on and get a job doing something non-creative. Thankfully, here at CCS we have a pretty awesome graduation-to-career placement rating, and a vast majority of our graduates go on to work creatively.

That said, at the end of the day it's your work that will grab people's attention, not your education history. I think the best route for anyone who wants to get into the creative/entertainment industry is to just start showing up to events like CTN, ComicCon, etc etc and just start showing your work around. Even if it doesn't lead to anything more than feedback and critique, that'll be valuable enough. All the big studios do portfolio reviews at the more professional events, and no matter how 'not ready' you think are, there is ALWAYS someone much more unprepared that is there showing off their work.

Agreed with the above.

I went to an arts college that primarily focused on fine arts. I got a degree in illustration, but the road was difficult. They definitely looked down on more applied techniques and a popular or commercial approach to design. It was very frustrating and I didn't draw for quite a while after I graduated and went on to pursue other things. I even had difficulty to even show people anything I'd make because I'd become insecure about my abilities. Which is absurd.

Just recently I started drawing again, a portrait to be precise, due to the death of a loved one. I remembered how art, any type, could bring me and others joy.



Okay, sorry for going completely off topic. I'll open a thread for this stuff soon. Or maybe we could make a big UD art thread for everyone to post stuff? Did we have one of those already? That way we can move this discussion there. I'm interested to read everyone's opinions.

xxhplinkxx wrote:Really?! What the hell, Disney?? Why would they do this! *sigh* Are there any other differences? Are the bonus features all there? Videos and such?

The Blu-Ray offers the following bonus features on the disc:
--Commentary with producer James Pentacost and directors Mike Gabriel & Eric Goldberg (1:24:11, 2005, audio)
--Drawing Inspiration: The Lost Story of Hiawatha (11:49, HD)
--Deleted Song: "If I Never Knew You" (4:32 with optional commentary, 2005, HD)
--The Music of Pocahontas (7:05, 1995, SD)
--Deleted Scenes: Below Deck After Thomas' Rescue (1:28), "Dancing to the Wedding Drum" (1:57), Transition to "Just Around The Riverbend" (1:01), Wiggins Gets Mud Thrown At Him (0:38), Pocahontas Dresses As An Englishwoman (0:54), "In the Middle of the River" (4:01), John Smith Escapes (1:07), "Just Around The Riverbend" Reprise (0:35), Miscellaneous Deleted Animation (3:23) (15:29 total, 9 scenes)
--Silly Symphony Short: "Little Hiawatha" (9:11, 1937)

The rest are offered through BD-Live's Virtual Vault Nonsense:
--Sing-Along Songs: "Colors of the Wind" (3:24)
--Sing-Along Songs: "Just Around the River Bend" (2:16)
--Music Video: "Colors of the Wind" - Vanessa Williams (4:10)
--Early Presentation Reel (3:47)
--Music Video: "If I Never Knew You" - Jon Secada & Shaniece (4:12)
--Multi-Language Reel: "Colors of the Wind" (3:36)
--Creating Pocahontas (4:22)
--Creating John Smith (2:15)
--Creating Ratcliffe (0:40)
--Ratcliffe Animation Tests (0:21)
--Creating Grandmother Willow (2:08)
--Grandmother Willow Animation Test (0:23)
--Creating Meeko (1:40)
--Meeko Animation Test (0:28)
--Creating Flit (0:55)
--Flit Animation Test (0:18)
--Creating Percy (0:54)
--Thomas Animation Test (0:25)
--Kekata Animation Test (0:17)
--Deleted Character: Redfeather (0:31)
--Creating Art Design, Layouts and Backgrounds (2:14)
--Storybook-to-Film Comparison: "Pocahontas and John Smith Meet" (1:34)
--Scene Progression: "Pocahontas' Big Dive" (3:55)

While these, from the 1996 LaserDisc and 2005 DVD, are no longer included:
--The Making of Pocahontas (28:00)
--The Making of "If I Never Knew You" (4:34)
--Theatrical Trailer 1 (3:33)
--Theatrical Trailer 2 (2:52)
--The Premiere in Central Park (3:46)
--Art Design, Layouts and Backgrounds Gallery (250 stills)
--Character Design: Pocahontas (148), John Smith (78), Ratcliffe (81), Powhatan (42), Grandmother Willow (35), Meeko (24), Flit (16), Percy (21), Thomas (27), Kocoum (30), Kekata (18), Redfeather (17) (537 stills, 12 galleries)
--Publicity Gallery: Posters (5), International Posters (1), Harper's Bazaar Fashion Layout (5), Premieres (5), Animation Discovery Adventure (2) (18 stills, 5 sections)

And for completeness sake, these LaserDisc supplements (mostly stills) were never included on the 2005 DVD:
--Laserdisc Commentary: James Pentacost, Mike Gabriel, Eric Goldberg, Alan Menken, Stephen Schwartz, Michael Giaimo, Carl Binder
--The "Pocahontas" Animation Discovery Adventure Tour
--The Historical Pocahontas
--History Of The Production Of "Pocahontas"
--Sequence Breakdown And Storyboards
--Storyboards: Sequence 5.7 -- Ship Landing
--Storyboards: Sequence 11 -- Pocahontas And John Smith Meet
--Storyboards: Sequence 14 -- "Color Of The Wind"
--Storyboards: Sequence 28 -- "Savages (Part 2)"
--Storyboards: Sequence 29 -- The Execution
--Storyboards: Sequence 30 -- Farewell
--Early Concept: Sequence 14 -- "Colors Of The Wind"
--Prop Designs
--Computer-Generated Imagery

Albert

Thanks for all that, Albert! Guess I'll stick with the 2005 DVD, sadly. Way to go, Disney.

Hey everybody, I have a question. Does anyone know if there is a Blu-ray copy of Pocahontas that includes the Extended Cut of the movie, with "If I Never Knew You" and the reprise at the end? I know the first version had them as bonus features. I think that the Extended Cut is a lot better than the original Theatrical Cut. The song is so intense and beautiful, plus the reprise is chilling, even though it's a few seconds long

No, unfortunately the only edition that has the song is the 10th Anniversary DVD, which is SD only. Seems like Disney stopped caring about extended editions.

Bummer. I guess I’ll keep my 10th Anniversary DVD. You're right about Disney not caring about extended editions. For Beauty and the Beast's 4K Blu-ray, they only included the original theatrical version, and The Lion King hasn't included "The Morning Report" since 2003, only as a bonus feature.

Frankly, I'm happy about this, IN THEORY.

a) the theatrical cut of BATB was TRULY the original cut... I;d be happy. No need to watch Human Again ever again.

b) it IS kinda sad for Pocahontas. It is the ONLY movie I can think of that benefits from having deleted scenes reinserted into the movie. Good thing I have my 10th ann dvd!

I actually enjoy Human Again, I think it's a fun song, that fits in with the score and other songs on the album. As for The Morning Report, I can take it or leave it.

Sicoe Vlad wrote:I actually enjoy Human Again, I think it's a fun song, that fits in with the score and other songs on the album.

I love Human Again and I find both the song and the sequence a great addition to the film. The same goes for If I Never Knew You in Pocahontas.

Sicoe Vlad wrote:As for The Morning Report, I can take it or leave it.

Ditto. It's forgettable, but inoffensive. It doesn't make much of a difference whether it stays in the film or not.

I like the song in and out of itself, but I don't like its inclusion in the film ten years after the film was done, I mainly don't like the attempt at humor before the song starts, the crickets sound effect doesn't fit the tone of the film, I don't like that the rose is being used in an unnecessary joke when it was always taken seriously by the characters and the audience. The animation seems worse, more off model characters, more cartoony for this type of film, and yet it looks too shiny too new (almost like the later DTVs like Ariel's Beginning and Cinderella III). In addition, they decided to add that awful glass breaking sound effect that interferes with the score. It also breaks up Something There with its playoff, musically its awkward to have Something There -> Human Again -> playoff to Something There, there's also no hint in the entire score for Human Again (understandably because the score was made without Human Again in the film), unlike If I Never Knew You where the score is filled with it.
As for its role in the film, I feel like Be Our Guest already made the Enchanted Object's desire pretty clear while also providing a relief from the two very dramatic moments, one which came before and one that would come immediately after (letting Belle and the viewers know that this is a magical place and not an intimidating one). I don't think it was needed to have another song for the objects, especially if they decided to cut the parts about Belle and the Beast becoming closer to one another (the tick tock part) otherwise it's just a song about the objects, which are not the main characters, and Something There already does the job of the cut parts of Human Again, which were the important parts of the song IMO.
So instead of having Something There leading us to Beauty and the Beast, both are about Belle and the Beast, we have another song in the middle focused on the objects, which is why I think it's unnecessary and kind of ruins the flow of the film itself.

As for The Morning Report, I don't like the song or its inclusion. The song is not good, it doesn't fit musically with the rest of the film and they cut a somewhat iconic scene in its place.

My UO is I've never really liked the "If I Never Knew You" sequence... I wish they had pulled back a little bit on the sappiness with the animals. I don't really like Mel Gibson's performance in the song, but I still think it absolutely should've been kept in the film itself. Thankfully I have the 10th Anniversary DVD. Hopefully a future Blu-ray release will include it again. It reminds me of all the deleted stuff of Bedknobs & Broomsticks that was put back into the film for one of its DVD releases... I can't really imagine the film without it now. While "A Step in the Right Direction" is probably my favorite song from the whole soundtrack, it's "Nobody's Problems" in particular that the film would feel incomplete without. Like "If I Never Knew You," it's at the core of the romantic plot; the film doesn't work as well without it.

I actually agree with farerb on "Human Again." The thing is I adore the song. It's an eargasm and lyrics at the end of the song kind of make me cry a little, since they definitely hit the bull's-eye on making you feel their desperation. I guess when I listen to the song, I kind of superimpose a religious meaning to the song somewhat, of wanting to triumph, be re-born and be all that you were, etc. That said, something about the characters all feel a touch off to me somehow... Mrs. Potts looks a bit like an elephant at times, but it's Cogsworth especially that looks weird. It does break up the flow a touch and, more than that, I hatehatehate the scene of Belle and the Beast reading. Not really that the Beast can't read, but more that the dialogue for the scene is just... Really cheesy. That said, I'm glad the scene exists to watch when I want.

"The Morning Report," on the other hand, I have never liked the song or the scene. I remember there were rumors they were going to add something to TLM like those films. I wish that had happened, but it seems TLM always gets re-released just after they're ending a fad. :/ But I think the rumors were fake though--there was talk of a song that Ariel sings after Triton destroys her grotto (before F&J enter) called "The Sun Only Shines On Land." While that never actually existed, I actually think it would've been wonderful if they had added a new animation there of her singing the cut lyrics of the sad version of POYW: "Now there's a dream, now there's a goal, now there's a need I'll never control. I won't get free 'til I can be part of your world..." / "I'd give my life, I'd sell my soul, because I can feel I'll never be whole..." It would've been a perfect segue to her deciding to go to Ursula.

I agree 100% with what fareb said. I couldn't have said it better!

Farerb wrote:I like the song in and out of itself, but I don't like its inclusion in the film ten years after the film was done, I mainly don't like the attempt at humor before the song starts, the crickets sound effect doesn't fit the tone of the film, I don't like that the rose is being used in an unnecessary joke when it was always taken seriously by the characters and the audience. The animation seems worse, more off model characters, more cartoony for this type of film, and yet it looks too shiny too new (almost like the later DTVs like Ariel's Beginning and Cinderella III). In addition, they decided to add that awful glass breaking sound effect that interferes with the score. It also breaks up Something There with its playoff, musically its awkward to have Something There -> Human Again -> playoff to Something There, there's also no hint in the entire score for Human Again (understandably because the score was made without Human Again in the film), unlike If I Never Knew You where the score is filled with it.
As for its role in the film, I feel like Be Our Guest already made the Enchanted Object's desire pretty clear while also providing a relief from the two very dramatic moments, one which came before and one that would come immediately after (letting Belle and the viewers know that this is a magical place and not an intimidating one). I don't think it was needed to have another song for the objects, especially if they decided to cut the parts about Belle and the Beast becoming closer to one another (the tick tock part) otherwise it's just a song about the objects, which are not the main characters, and Something There already does the job of the cut parts of Human Again, which were the important parts of the song IMO.
So instead of having Something There leading us to Beauty and the Beast, both are about Belle and the Beast, we have another song in the middle focused on the objects, which is why I think it's unnecessary and kind of ruins the flow of the film itself.

As for The Morning Report, I don't like the song or its inclusion. The song is not good, it doesn't fit musically with the rest of the film and they cut a somewhat iconic scene in its place.

But what's your op on If I Never Knew You???

thedisneyspirit wrote:But what's your op on If I Never Knew You???

I love If I Never Knew You, it is the heart of Pocahontas and should never have been deleted. In that film, the romance is equal to the message of the story rather than a subplot, so when they axed that number, it left a hole in the relationship and the film feels incomplete because of that. I actually never bothered buying the Blu-ray because of that despite having a better video quality.

Farerb wrote:

thedisneyspirit wrote:But what's your op on If I Never Knew You???

I love If I Never Knew You, it is the heart of Pocahontas and should never have been deleted. In that film, the romance is equal to the message of the story rather than a subplot, so when they axed that number, it left a hole in the relationship and the film feels incomplete because of that. I actually never bothered buying the Blu-ray because of that despite having a better video quality.

Thank you for sharing your thoguhts on the matter. It's a pleasure to make the acquaintance of someone so learned!! Too bad you weren't an executive in charge of the movie when they decided to axe the song