Mr. Toad wrote:
I would love them to be on the platinum edition. Give me less buyer's remorse for double dipping. As well, the Jiminy shorts aren't theatrical releases. At least in my mind they are of less value. And don't get me wrong I still want them. But to make it worthwile to Disney there probably needs to be about 50,000 people who want them. There probably isnt that. Why does having them outside the Treasure collection mean nothing? A Treasure is nothing more than packaging essentially. Having them means a great deal. The bigger issue as I see it is they are totally unrestored. Casey Bats Again does not look that bat but Suzie could use a lot of work.)..
I am aware that the Jiminy shorts aren't theatrical, but they are shorts from Walt's day. Many of us, even from my generation going to school in the '80's and '90's, grew up watching the Jiminy shorts at school and on the Disney Channel. I don't doubt for a minute that there are at least 50,000 people who would remember and want to own them. 50,000 really isn't that many. In fact, wouldn't be surprised if Jiminy (or Ludwig Von Drake) would work as an anchor for another Disney Treasures wave, not that I feel an anchor is truly needed in a collector-aimed DVD line.
We definitely have different viewpoints on the worth of some of these things. The Treasures line itself, for example. To me, and probably to many of us, it's more than just packaging. We haven't seen any other format for Disney material like the Treasures Line (Legacy Collection was just a name and packaging change), so any true fans should see the end of such a line as a huge disappointment. Saying, "Thanks for the last Donald, and I understand if you want to stop making Treasures now," is not helpful. As some here have said, after this we may not ever get another line to release this sort of material. As for why we should care about getting shorts in the Treasures collection that have already been released as bonuses on other discs, it's because we are talking about the Treasures sets here. Maybe a lot of hardcore fans of these shorts don't want to buy Pinocchio or the Love Bug, or whatever else, to get certain shorts when it's just shorts that they want. I'm sure fans of Donald would riot if they left some of the shorts out of Volume 4 and said, "They're extras on Mickey's Club House, go buy that." And restoration is part of that problem.
Mr. Toad wrote:
Again I don't disagree. Buy it in a heartbeat. But the two problems we are left with is 1) The Treasures said they would be essentially about Walt's life work which those are outside of and 2) I still see Rarities treasures everywhere. Only anictodal evidence but given that the Treasures were initially cancelled after that run we can assume maybe they did not sell well.
In regards to number One, they've broken or bent that rule enough that they can do it a bit more. If it means changing the name/look of the line so it can evolve, I wouldn't mind that. The only problem I had with the change to the Legacy Collection (besides not having completed Donald and Swamp Fox yet) was that A. It's packaging was too flimsy, and B. I missed the Leonard Maltin aspect. I liked the way the packages looked aesthetically, but everything else seemed a bit like a downgrade. As for issue number Two, the fact that some sets didn't sell out right away doesn't make them failures. Nothing more frustrating than when Disney cancels a line simply because it doesn't fly off the shelves in the first months or year. There are folks still out there looking for and buying those old Disney Treasures. Not everyone can afford to get them in the first week. Some years I have, some years it took me several months to get them all. These are limited editions, so Disney isn't wasting money printing more and more. It doesn't hurt them if it takes a little time for them all to sell, whether that's months and years. And I think it's incorrect to assume that the Treasures were canceled after the Rarities Wave because they didn't sell well. The Treasures weren't really canceled. It became the Legacy Collection. That's all there is to it. The assumption I would make, if any, is that Disney wanted to ditch Leonard Maltin and also thought it was time for a flashy new look. Anyway, fans got mad and they changed the name/format back, that's all. The fact is, if Disney really thought people weren't interested in their other classic live-action and animated stuff, they never would have came out with the Legacy Collection, which didn't really have an "anchor" either. I wouldn't think the True Life Adventures hold more appeal than a DVD set featuring Jiminy Cricket or Ludwig Von Drake.
Mr. Toad wrote:
Totally agree on the Runaway Brain thing. Almost unwatchable. Last time there was a new short it ended up on a Platinum edition. I would imagine we will see the same with the Goofy short. Hard to classify something that is six months old as a Treasure for the collectors market though.
We might, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be made available on a new Rarities set either. It's only double dipping to the folks who buy both. And, again, they included Runaway Brain, so I don't see why including the new Goofy short would be a problem. But good call on the other unreleased shorts we didn't mention. Yes, Little Match Girl was on the Little Mermaid Platinum, and there have been others only released on other DVDs (stuff for Fantasia 2006). Plus, I nearly forgot "The Small One", which still hasn't been released in its original form, so I still haven't bought it. There is well more than enough for a second Rarities set.
Mr. Toad wrote: According to those with ties to the Disney Treasure project Swamp Fox was the worst seller of the series. And in my mind, far and away the worst pick of the series. We are not going to see anymore of it. From all critical reviews we know we have seen the Best Spin and Marty series and far and away the best Hardy Boys series. Now if either of those series had been huge sellers and now commanded big bucks on the secendary market we would likely see second releases but they dont.
Ah, see, here's one of the big problems right there. You don't care for the Swamp Fox. You're not interested in the Swamp Fox. Well, those of us who are big Swamp Fox fans naturally are not satisfied with the "teaser" we paid 25 or more bucks for on the good faith that they'd complete the series. The fact is, that set would probably have sold better if it focused on one character or the other. Disney only has themselves (or Maltin) to blame for that. In addition, I am unwilling to trust any statement like, "We are not going to see any more of it." I was hearing that a lot a while back about the Treasures line iteself. Look, most DVDs that are still available in stores are not going to command big bucks on the secondary market, so that's not an issue. The issue is, the aforementioned titles are still available in stores even though they're out of print. Well, I still say what I said before, the fact that something doesn't fly off the shelves doesn't mean it is a failure. Disney is still seeing income off those titles. Heck, I know folks who are still buying them. Again, not everyone buys them in the first week or year. Besides that, I see a lot of stuff coming out everyday that I think can't appeal to 50,000 people or more, yet it keeps coming out, and when they start a set, they finish it. I'm not about to cut Disney slack on this one. They're not watching their pennies when they stop releasing something that doesn't fly off the shelves in the first year (like Gargoyles, Lizzie McGuire, or certain Treasures sets), they're just being greedy. And I'm usually the guy defending Disney.
Mr. Toad wrote: It depends on how you define finish the job. They said they wanted to put out important works of Walt's life. We have a near complete library of animated shorts, we have major contributions from Disneyland, from early Disney TV. To me the job has been accomplished.
I define "finish the job" as finish the things you start. They started the Swamp Fox and Baca. It's only appreciative and respectful to the fans and collectors to finish those titles. They released a "near complete library of animated shorts," but last I checked, finishing something is not the same as "near complete." If the next wave was only a set completing Swamp Fox, a set completing Baca, and a set completing the major shorts we've talked about, then I'd be content and they would have truly tied up the loose ends to show some respect to those who have collected the series loyally, like myself. As for just releasing a line that puts out important works of Walt's life, that's a line that, like Disneyland, would never be finished.
Mr. Toad wrote: Do I want most of the stuff you do - absolutely(outside of the Swamp Fox). But we can't require Disney to restore, produce market and distribute them if only 2,000 people are interested. There needs to be a number of interested people to achieve critical mass to cover the costs. I would imagine that number is about the 50,000 that they are currently making the runs at.
Well, again, I think you underestimate the number of worldwide fans of this material greatly. There are well over 300,000,000 people in the U.S. alone. Anyway, again, all I ask personally is they tie up the loose ends, but since you are not a fan of Swamp Fox,... well, you can't convince someone that "The Monkey's Uncle" deserves a DVD release if they can't stand Tommy Kirk and Annette.
Mr. Toad wrote: I think the lack of an anchor title is also going to hurt. I will give you an example. When Michael Jackson's Thriller album was smashing all sorts of sales records, sales of catalogue albums inexplicably rose 70%. This is because people who did not normally go into a record store went and bought Thriller and while they were at it bought a bunch of other albums they would never had bought had Thriller not existed. Without Mickey anchoring the Treasures sales declined significantly, without any major character to anchor them now they will go down even further.
Oh, I understand about the usefulness of anchors. However, I believe it's a glass is half full, glass is half empty kind of a situation. I wouldn't say not having the anchor hurts sales. I'd say having one boosts sales. But, again, there was nothing to boost the sales of the Legacy line. That was just 4 sets of True Life Adventures. And what were they going to follow them with? A set of silent cartoons, a Destino set, and a set on Disneyland! With that in mind, it's hard for me to believe they wouldn't release a Treasures wave without Mickey, Donald, Goofy, or Pluto. Heck, thinking about that, I'm not even sure what any of us are even worried about. I wouldn't be surprised if the line just keeps going. At least for a little while, though they might try to change the title again. I guess for me the only reason I'm still b**ching is because I still don't have Scrooge McDuck and Money, the Jiminy Crickets, or the Swamp Fox.