DVDizzy Forum

So in a nutshell, this movie made my life. In-freaking-credible.

TheSequelOfDisney wrote:how much blood was in it?

A lot, but the fact that it's so obviously fake makes it completely tolerable. Hope that helps!

There was a lot of blood. Less than I had set myself up for, but you see at least eight or so people get their throats slit throughout the movie.

I thought the movie was an excellent balance of the stage show and a cinematic transfer. My one minor complaint is that Johanna really got screwed out of screen time, and thus their relationship suffered a bit. But likewise, I get really bored with Johanna / Anthony when they're included as much as they are on stage (cutting "Ah Miss" was a great move). Everyone in the cast was amazing. Helena was easily the weakest vocalist, but I loved her take on Lovett, instead of a crazy brassy woman, she's a shy fragile woman clearly enamored with Sweeney. I will be seeing this many more times.

I saw it earlier this afternoon, and well....I just...





































LOVED IT!!!!!

I thought it was amazing! It grabbed my attention from the very beggining and just would not let go! I thought it was very bloody, but it was just stylistic enough (and at times, funny enough) to not seem gratuitous.

I thought all the cast was great and just perfect for their parts! Depp was amazing and I really hope we wins the oscar. Helena was weak vocal-wise, but her acting and look for the character carried her very well through the movie. Rickman was excellent as usual and made the Judge sooooo slimy and evil. Spall was a very good Beadle, his singing was decent enough, and his accent made it work. Cohen was a perfect Pirelli and did everything he could have exactly right. The three younger cast members were all great singers, but either their preformances (Toby) or characters (Antony and Johanna) made them fall a bit flat.

A great, great movie. I'm looking forward to seeing it again.

I thought it was.... interesting. I didn't care for the music, other than a few songs. I was bored by the beginning but it picked up. Overall, worth seeing..... but I doubt I'll be watching it ever on DVD.

SPOILERS in what I have to say:

Well, I saw it last night and IT WAS VERY GOOD. IT WAS GREAT. IT WAS FANTASTIC. I LOVED IT. That's my overall opinion. Particularly, the acting was wonderful and the singing was pleasant to hear and the sets and costumes looked stellar and the overall direction was tremendous in a good way. Burton gets more love and respect from me, now.

Anyway, it's much easier to point out flaws and criticize, so here I go. Everyone says they feel Helena's singing was the weakest. Even more than Pirelli, or Toby? But it certainly was one of the voices I found most pleasant to hear, in fact I'd say the singing of Sweeney, Lovette, and Anthony (I know it's pronounced "Antony", but isn't it spelled "Anthony"?) were much more pleasant to listen to than the singing of Johanna, Turpin, Pirelli, Toby, and the Beggar Woman.

I thought Helena was the best actor of the bunch, so natural and complicated and emotional. Though Depp was almost as good, something was missing. I'm not sure what it was, since I think he did all the anger and darkness fantastically enough, but I would guess he just didn't have a sadder, softer, more loving side. I think that is what was missing because he had to have love for Lucy and Johanna. From what I remember after watching the entire filmed Broadway version with Angela Lansbury two years ago and some clips I watched more recently online, I think George Hearn has that sentiment that was lacking in Johnny Depp. I didn't really feel sorry for Depp's Sweeney, and maybe you're not supposed to, but I think I should have been moved by some sadness sometime for him. I did feel bad, perhaps not sad, for Lovett, though.

On that note, perhaps I just haven't been desensitized enough by other gory films, but am I the only one who thought all the murders was rather shocking and I felt bad/unsettled while they were performed, and felt sorry for all the victims? This isn't some film where it's cool to see all the zombies get dismembered or other acts of violence that are usually "enjoyed" by an audience or played for laughs.

And on that note, people laughd while Sweeney killed people just like people do during the play. I don't think it's just the mis-match of sweet, loving singing with unabashed bloody killing, I think people either thought the murders looked fake or they really were nervously laughing. But I was so upset, because I think the murders in this film should be taken very seriously, especially the way the film portrayed these murders, in a less comedic fashion than the stage play usually does. But I especially felt horrible when Lovett died! That was the most aching way to show her death! Which I think is important, to show how horrible horrors can be/are.

As for the cuts and such, I agree with SpringHeelJack there needed to be something more for Johanna. I'd say that would be "Kiss Me", even a shortened version, because when Anthony comes running in to tell Mr. Todd that he will elope with Johanna that Sunday, we hardly even hear him and it's kind of a muddled moment since it's the first time we know of the plan mixed with the moment Judge Turpin discovers the plan, and some people might not have even heard the plan. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have gotten what was going on unless I had seen the show before. As for SpringHeelJack's boredom with Johanna and Anthony, I'd say the two are so young and innocent they don't have much to them, especially Johanna who is like a baby in so many aspects and for so many reasons, so no matter how they're played they're kind of supposed to be bland characters.

I don't see why a chorus couldn't sing "The Ballad of Sweeney Todd" in the opening credits or in the end credits, but perhaps it wouldn't fit with them in it. But I think I would have liked the singing of the letter Sweeney writes to Turpin, perhaps by Sweeney as he writes or sung in his head, because we really didn't get to know what the letter said and I think we should have.

It seems in general the cuts were made to focus more on just Sweeney and Lovett, which I mostly agree with, but I did miss a "City On Fire" that was louder and trying to alert everyone, and then the people singing "God That's Good" to not just show how much they enjoy the pies regardles of what they're actually eating but also to show how crazy they get and the harmful effects the pies have on them. Oh well, it would have been too long, perhaps.

But I didn't think Toby and Mrs. Lovett's relationship seemed mutual or loving enough to make "Not While I'm Around" as believable as the other productions I've seen did it. Toby needs to seem really grateful and to love Mrs. Lovett, not just ask for the bottle of rum and take her care for granted. Also, I just didn't feel Mrs. Lovett seemed to care for Toby beyond a convenient fill-in for offspring she and Sweeney "share".

And I'm sorry but I did not think Alan Rickman was as believable as the Judge as the original one was (or whoever played the Judge in the Lansbury recording). That Judge was very clueless and seemed like a bumbling fool with power, but Rickman was a smarter, more aware Judge, so I didn't believe he was so stupid as to not understand why Johanna was reluctant to marry him. I mean, unless he was really conceited and blinded by some love for his looks, or he thought his care for her was enough to warrant her love, but it didn't come off that way to me.

Anyway, I'll be seeing this again for sure, and I may change my mind on things or complain even more, we'll see!

Any thoughts, responses, defenses, agreements, arguments?

How bad is the gore compared to Tim Burton's Sleepy Hollow? I want to see that one too.

Anyway, the film made $9.35 million over it's opening weekend. I think it will have a slow start but once it wins the awards it's nominated for (since it probably will) it will make more money.

Flanger-Hanger wrote:Anyway, the film made $9.35 million over it's opening weekend. I think it will have a slow start but once it wins the awards it's nominated for (since it probably will) it will make more money.

Also, it's playing on 66% fewer screens than the other movies that beat it this weekend. I really don't get limited openings.

DisneyDuster, I agree with you on pretty much every point, but I would argue the look in Helena's eyes near the end of "Not While I'm Around" was fantastic. It's the first time I've ever seen a Lovett look affected by what she feels must be done.

Well, after a grossly insane amount of time, I finally have pictures from our Sweeney Production! Here's a few of them for you:


The Ballad of Sweeney Todd


"At Last My Arm is Complete Again!"


Green Finch and Linnet Bird


Kiss Me


Ladies in Their Sensitivities


Pretty Women


Epiphany


A Little Priest


God That's Good!


Judge's Death


"I love you!"


Mrs. Lovett's Death (sorry, we didn't have an oven )

If there's any other scene's or character's (though I think I got them all) that you'd like to see, please tell me!

Flanger-Hanger wrote:How bad is the gore compared to Tim Burton's Sleepy Hollow? I want to see that one too.

Well, if you read my comments (I'm kidding, of course you don't want to be spoiled!), you would have found me saying I felt shocked and uncomfortable by the murders. It is very gory. I saw both Sleepy and Sweeney, but I can't recall exactly how bad Sleepy was. I'd say Sweeney is worse, there's lots of squirting blood and lots of horrible reacting on the parts of the victims. It's done very openly, and is not shy about the killing, which I feel was best because it shows how horrible murder is. You may just want to close your eyes when Sweeney starts singing "Johanna" (you can just listen to the pretty music...and screaming). I'd say the murders in Sleepy were quicker and more in the dark, but that is not the case in Sweeney where the murders have lots of bright red blood and people that convulse as they die. The murders are gruesome throughout.

But this is such and excellent, well-made film, I think you should try to see it. Maybe wait until DVD when you can shut it off if it's too bad?

SpringHeelJack wrote:DisneyDuster, I agree with you on pretty much every point, but I would argue the look in Helena's eyes near the end of "Not While I'm Around" was fantastic. It's the first time I've ever seen a Lovett look affected by what she feels must be done.

OMGosh! Thank you, I'm glad we agree on so many things. Your opinion matters a lot to me, as does that of lord-of-sith and Flanger-Hanger (but they never talked about what I wrote, wah), and from what I understand the most demanding theater fans like, you have a high/good taste.

I did notice that terrific acting moment of Helena's, and that is why she has something Johnny didn't. Also, even though she was obviosuly touched by the song and cared for Toby, I still didn't feel there was enough on Toby's behalf before the song that made me believe he would sing the song. By the way, what is it that you thought Mrs. Lovett must do? Stop trying to hide Toby from the secret?

Also, did you think it was far-fetched that Anthony could hear Johanna through that window? How could he have heard her down two stories and across the street?

I just realized that the Ballad of Sweeeny Todd holds the lyrics, "Well that's the play, and he wouldn't want us to give it away", which wouldn't fit for the film, but that's pretty much the end of the song and those lyrics come right after all the voices climax (I don't know if that's the right word, but they kind of sound like it could be a finale). Then those last lines could be cut to give way to the best orchestrations ever, the ones that sound like violins cutting people or some kind of evil machine. So I still wish the song was in the opening, or at least the end.

SpringHeel, you have the CD ro at least those leaked tracks, what was recorded but not in the film? "The Ballad of Sweeney Todd", "Kiss Me"? I hope we get a DVD with deleted scenes or a director's cut to end up with almost the entire play in Burton's, Depp's, Carter's, and Anthony's excellence.

Lord-of-sith, excellent pictures! I like the costumes, very modern and simple black and white (reminds me of the recent revival, or at least Lupone's costume), and that Sweeney looks so fierce and evil and like he will really kill in that picture of the Judge's death! And this is one case where the red-eye and other weird glows and glares in the eyes actually work for the pictures!

I saw ths yesterday (finally, a musical for the entire family this holiday season! ). Here, in a nutshell, is my take.

The music was FANTASTIC. Most of the performances were stellar, while some just fell short landing in the 'great' category. The movie itself was very good, and really the only thing that stopped me from loving it was the insanely over the top gore. This is one of the few movies I've seen where the blood felt tacked on and didn't bring anything to the story.

Overall, I'd give the movie a B-, or three out of four stars.

Oh, and one minor note - I haven't been able to get Pirelli's Miracle Elixer out of my head since I left the theater.

Cheers,
JM

I'm seeing it tonight, and both me and my cousin are very excited!

O.k. I saw it, and...I don't know exactly what to think.

Never has a movie made me feel so many emotions at one time. Disgusting, Disturbing, funny, catchy, sad, and confused. I really liked the "By the sea" number the best because of how it beautifully contrasted with the rest of the film and how everyone in the theater was laughing. But they wern't laughing at the ending.

The gore was both shocking and silly at the same time. I've never really seen a "gory" or "slasher" flick before, but after the first few throat slittings, I got used to it, until the end. No I never did close my eyes and I don't regret it (too much) but I still don't know what i really think about it. The blood looked like paint from Home Depot but Sleepy Hollow is tame by comparisson.

The songs were wonderful and this movie really proves that musicals don't have to be strict comedys, that they can tell any kind of story they want and I hope to see more varity in the musical genre from now on. I liked Timothy Spall again, and everyone else.

As for the picture on a whole....I'm still undecided and I think that I need more time to further develop my opinion.

I've heard many comments on how the blood looked fake, and I can tell you right now it wasn't supposed to look real.

On stage, during the second act "Johanna" the throat cuttings are supposed to be nearly humorous, as singing is happening at the same time. This is very easy to accomplish on stage, because you can never make it look fully real.

A film, on the other hand, is much different because your right up in the action and it can appear as real as the film makers want it to be. Because the staging of the song is humorous in nature, having the blood look real would make it far too dark and just miserably serious. Having the blood be flourescent red gives it that little comical edge it needs.

Plus, the whole film is not exactly colored correctly, are you really trying to tell me that 18th century London is really that devoid of color? It's all a concious choice by Burton and the design team.

So the "fakeness" of the blood shouldn't take away from your enjoyment of the film, but rather enhance the feel and meaning of it to you.

Disney Duster wrote:OMGosh! Thank you, I'm glad we agree on so many things. Your opinion matters a lot to me, as does that of lord-of-sith and Flanger-Hanger (but they never talked about what I wrote, wah), and from what I understand the most demanding theater fans like, you have a high/good taste.

Aw, you're so sweet/complimentive! That may not be a word, but it is now.

Disney Duster wrote:Also, even though she was obviosuly touched by the song and cared for Toby, I still didn't feel there was enough on Toby's behalf before the song that made me believe he would sing the song. By the way, what is it that you thought Mrs. Lovett must do? Stop trying to hide Toby from the secret?

I can see where you come from that. I would call that another unfortunate loss due to the desire to keep it to a two-hour movie. It wasn't really touched upon much also because it's not that much of a focus in the stage show - you get the impression she like's having him around, but due to her false and secretive nature, you don't get the feeling she's particularly attached to him. For me, that's why it was interesting that "By the Sea" included Toby, given that on stage there's no indication she has him as part of her "perfect life". It does make up for a bit. As for what I thought she must do (IMO), at the end of the song is when she realizes she has to kill Toby to protect that what she loves more - any perceived attention from Sweeney.

Disney Duster wrote:Also, did you think it was far-fetched that Anthony could hear Johanna through that window? How could he have heard her down two stories and across the street?

Haha, very true. I wasn't actually clear if Anthony was supposed to hear her per se or just get the jist of what she was feeling. When she sings through an open window in the stage show, it does help matters. I kind of think that would have been effective in the movie, but a minor quibble there.

Disney Duster wrote:I just realized that the Ballad of Sweeeny Todd holds the lyrics, "Well that's the play, and he wouldn't want us to give it away", which wouldn't fit for the film, but that's pretty much the end of the song and those lyrics come right after all the voices climax (I don't know if that's the right word, but they kind of sound like it could be a finale). Then those last lines could be cut to give way to the best orchestrations ever, the ones that sound like violins cutting people or some kind of evil machine. So I still wish the song was in the opening, or at least the end.

Actually, random tidbit, when they initially were keeping the ballad in, the lyric went "What happened then, well who's to say, and he wouldn't want us to give it away". I do mourn the loss of the ballad, as it's one of the most chilling songs Sondheim has ever written, but it does make sense to jettison it for the film. As for keeping it in for the end / using the ballad finale over the end credits... I don't know. It would have been interesting to keep it in, but I can't make up my mind if it would sound too cheesey to have random characters start singing over the credits. Sadly, it's not something I'll ever really get to find out.

Disney Duster wrote:SpringHeel, you have the CD ro at least those leaked tracks, what was recorded but not in the film? "The Ballad of Sweeney Todd", "Kiss Me"? I hope we get a DVD with deleted scenes or a director's cut to end up with almost the entire play in Burton's, Depp's, Carter's, and Anthony's excellence.

To my knowledge, literally the only thing not in the film that was recorded is the Beggar Woman's interlude in "Alms, Alms" (the whole "push me parsley" bit). "Kiss Me" was cut very early on, and while the ballad was literally dropped during production, I don't think it was filmed. Christopher Lee was supposed to be one of the ballad ghosts used as a plot device for the ballad, but I think he said he was never even filmed. To my knowledge, most of what was filmed ended up in the movie. I doubt we'll get too much on the DVD, save for maybe a spliced verse here and there.

Just Myself needs to recognize the genius and give it a better score, come on B-? It's at least an A-! I thought the gore definately served the film for the better as everything else was shown in such detail, from the making of pies to how London and it's inhabitants looked. Shying away from the murders would not have fit with showing how gruesome and unpleasant everything else was! I feel it showed how horrible all the deaths were so you would felt Sweeney shouldn't be killing, or you realized killing is no laughing matter...even though people laughed...it was just because the singing during the killing, that's all, or the way the people feel to the floor. People laughed at the people falling in Titantic, too.

Lord-of-sith agrees with me that the fake-looking blood was a deliberate artistic choice. In the dreary coolor-drained scenes the bright blood sticks out. However, we don't agree on if the murders are supposed to be funny or not. From their work, I would say Sondheim and Burton don't think death is funny, which is why Burton opted for murders that are not fun to watch. The blood was either a nod to the ways the play had been staged or a way of lessening the realism or just something bright red to go with the mostly black world. You know how black, gray, white and red look all evil and gothic.

Flanger-Hanger, I'm so glad you were moved in so many ways. I'd say that's an indication this was a good film, because it moved you. Of course what the movie showed was bad, and that's why I like it, it just lets the audience see people doing good and bad things and you think on it instead of action-movies where getting revenge is rooted for so enthusiastically.

Because you said this showed musicals can be more than comedies, I wonder if you know of many musicals, because I'd say a lot of the ones that are loved by theater geeks have so much drama. I'm sure you knew this was based on a stage musical by Steven Sondheim which came first in 1979 and was critically acclaimed and won 8 Tonys...? Sondheim's other work has also been good and moving in more ways than funny. But perhaps all you were saying was the general public needs to see musicals can go beyond comedy. In which case: Oh. Sorry.

I hope after thinking on it you decide it was good. Maybe you need to see it again with some eye-closing? I really want you to like this...

SpringHeelJack, aw, thanks. You know, I suppose it's left to the audience to decide, but I was sure Mrs. Lovett didn't want to kill Toby, just Sweeney wanted to, and she hoped Toby wouldn't have discovered what was happening. I could reason that his song touched her so much, she wanted to give him something he wanted, which was to be a big help for her and see how meat pies were made. But then when he was gone, maybe she would have killed him but I feel she was too attached to allow it, after her fantasy and denying Sweeney's sllitting the first time when he said "Send him up", twice. But I definately could see her needing to kill him, too. I liked your "protect what she loves more" theory. In the musical, though, wasn't it pretty clear she wasn't going to kill him, just make sure he wasn't off to tell the authorities? He wasn't lokced in the room in the stage version, right?

I guess Anthony could have heard something sweet from above, but I actually don't think he'd be able to hear her at all, or not enough to distract him froma book he'd be reading, unless he wasn't deep enough into his book. I'm glad you saw my problem.

Thank you for the info on the Ballad before it was cut. Like you, I think I'd need to actually view the film with the Ballad in the opening or ending to see if it would work or not! I think it was actually recorded, maybe they'll let you watch it with the Ballad in on the DVD as an alternate track?

I kind of wish the "push me parsely" part was in because I think it would deter people from the idea that she's Johanna's mother (because like my mom and cousin were totally thinking it and by the time she was in Sweeeny's shop they were very sure). It would be hard to think so if she was looking for sex with any man she met. But as we know, it's just a sign she got really crazy.

Sorry to do this to you, but, did Anthony ever get a key from Johanna in the original? I saw Sweeney two times before the film and never remembered that.

Disney Duster wrote:In the musical, though, wasn't it pretty clear she wasn't going to kill him, just make sure he wasn't off to tell the authorities? He wasn't lokced in the room in the stage version, right?

I never quite got the impression that she was going to kill him in the stage show, maybe just because I always get caught up in the moment and Toby sort of falls to side when Anthony, Johanna, Turpin et. all show up (until the last scene, of course). I never gave it much thought on stage, though I suppose... I mean, if Sweeney and Lovett are looking for him... in my mind, it's to kill him because he's become a threat to their secret. But again, the whole relationship leaves so much personal interpretation.

Disney Duster wrote:Thank you for the info on the Ballad before it was cut. Like you, I think I'd need to actually view the film with the Ballad in the opening or ending to see if it would work or not! I think it was actually recorded, maybe they'll let you watch it with the Ballad in on the DVD as an alternate track?

Dunno... it'd be nice... if the ballad was indeed recorded, of which there is a fairly decent chance given how late it was cut, I really hope it shows up in SOME form on the DVD. I might have to do some more digging and see if Tim Burton or anyone mentions it.

Disney Duster wrote:I kind of wish the "push me parsely" part was in because I think it would deter people from the idea that she's Johanna's mother (because like my mom and cousin were totally thinking it and by the time she was in Sweeeny's shop they were very sure). It would be hard to think so if she was looking for sex with any man she met. But as we know, it's just a sign she got really crazy.

I concur with that. I've only seen the movie with people who know the show, but I kind of think most people might pick up on the Beggar Woman twist too easily. I'll have to wait 'til I see it with other people to hear what they think.

Disney Duster wrote:Sorry to do this to you, but, did Anthony ever get a key from Johanna in the original? I saw Sweeney two times before the film and never remembered that.

Hmmm... don't quote me on this, as I'm at home for break and don't have my DVD of the original production with me, but I think there's a dialogue scene before "Kiss Me" where Johanna drops a key, right before Turpin shows up and vaguely proposes to her. I'm not sure though, off the top of my head.

Disney Duster wrote:
Flanger-Hanger, I'm so glad you were moved in so many ways. I'd say that's an indication this was a good film, because it moved you. Of course what the movie showed was bad, and that's why I like it, it just lets the audience see people doing good and bad things and you think on it instead of action-movies where getting revenge is rooted for so enthusiastically.

Because you said this showed musicals can be more than comedies, I wonder if you know of many musicals, because I'd say a lot of the ones that are loved by theater geeks have so much drama. I'm sure you knew this was based on a stage musical by Steven Sondheim which came first in 1979 and was critically acclaimed and won 8 Tonys...? Sondheim's other work has also been good and moving in more ways than funny. But perhaps all you were saying was the general public needs to see musicals can go beyond comedy. In which case: Oh. Sorry.

I hope after thinking on it you decide it was good. Maybe you need to see it again with some eye-closing? I really want you to like this...

I do like the fim Disney Duster (still have Johanna stuck in my head), I was meerly telling the perspective of someone who just doesn't go to horror/slasher flicks and this is really the first time for me. the reason I don't really watch those kinds of films is mainly all the true scares are gone in the second viewing because you know the surprises and seeing it a second time for me would not be so bad. But with the singing and comedy aspects the film remains enjoyable the second time around.

And yes I meant the general public needs to change it's vew towards musicals, from "EEEWWWW People are singing!" to "this is a much better storytelling method than all the crappy, bland comedies we see and yet enjoy". How about a Sci-Fi musical? they usually have alot of boring plot exposition that could be made more entertaining by song.

Also, did anyone think the chocie in aspect ratio was odd? With all these new musical being filmed in 2.35:1 or higer, how come Tim decided to use 1.75:1 (or something like that). My only theory is that it helps make it feel more like the old Black and white horror films he used for reference.

Anyway, yes I enjoyed it. And the gore (after seeing more of it) it's not as bad as Sleepy Hollow. No kids were killed in this film.

I saw this on Saturday night, I liked it a lot At first I was skeptical..." pies made out of people? No Thanks." But I went to see it anyway with my best buddy and was really surprised that I actually liked it.

I even bought the soundtrack for it too, and I almost never buy soundtracks...last soundtrack I bought was for the Tomb Raider movie and that was in 2001

My favorite song is "The Worst Pies in London"

By the way, was that really Johnny Depp's singing voice? He sounds really good!

jeremy88 wrote:By the way, was that really Johnny Depp's singing voice? He sounds really good!

Yes it was. I agree, I think they all did very well considering a lot of them aren't professional singers.

I really want to see this film,but I'm not 18..

Anyway,my parents we're thinking of taking me,but they need to know all the bad/disgusting/gruesome/gory parts.

Could you please tell me everything..."scary" that happens. Thanks!