DVDizzy Forum

Escapay thank you so much. I haven't watched any of those movies. So thank you.


Another note - This is a very interesting thread. I only thought of Cinderella, Snow white, Belle, Ariel, Jasmine, and Aurora but I can see the reasons for and against certain ones.

Chernabog_Rocks I think it is really good how you put that list together, very interesting results (from people).

Again thank you all.

~Wrestling_Stat

But then we're assuming Meg marries Hercules, another strech. It's just safter to keep her out.

How is assuming Megara married Hercules a stretch? That's like saying it's a stretch in assuming that Snow White and the Prince got married. It's implied.

By the same way Nala could be grandfathered in, ridiculously.

But it's no big deal that Mulan's included? If you're going to count one, count them all.

Yeah, but no one in mythology ever called Athena a "princess" because her father was Zeus.

Yeah, let's list the things that were never mentioned in the mythology, shall we?

- Hades didn't have a grudge against Zeus. It isn't even said that he disliked his position as ruler of Tartarus.
- Hera was NOT Hercules' mother.
- Megara was not a servant of Hades.
- Pain and Panic were not servants of Hades.
- The Titans weren't "elemental" monsters as they are in the movie.
- Hades didn't release the Titans from a prison. From what I recall, nearly all of the Titans were killed in the beginning.
- Hades wasn't sided with the Titans. If I remember correctly, the majority of the gods fought together against them.
- The Underworld was not a pool and the souls weren't all grouped together.


The reason Zeus' children are never called "prince" or "princess" is because they're all immortal. So whether or not they would inherit the throne wouldn't matter because Zeus would never die. In human terms though, Hercules is considered a prince and Megara his princess. In the same way that Ariel and her sisters are all princesses, even though the majority of them will never be queen of the sea.

If we're bringing in the real Greek Mythology, has everyone forgotten that Megara was the daughter of Creon, the King of Thebes? That would make her...*gasp*...a princess! And she wouldn't need to marry Hercules to keep the title, she was born with it!

There's so many things changed in the Disney Hercules, it's like they simply too one or two concepts, and used it to create their own store. One reason why I was never a big fan of the film's story, though I do love their characters and humor.

Escapay

Disney's Divinity wrote:

Yeah, but no one in mythology ever called Athena a "princess" because her father was Zeus.

Yeah, let's list the things that were never mentioned in the mythology, shall we?

- Hades didn't have a grudge against Zeus. It isn't even said that he disliked his position as ruler of Tartarus.
- Hera was NOT Hercules' mother.
- Megara was not a servant of Hades.
- Pain and Panic were not servants of Hades.
- The Titans weren't "elemental" monsters as they are in the movie.
- Hades didn't release the Titans from a prison. From what I recall, nearly all of the Titans were killed in the beginning.
- Hades wasn't sided with the Titans. If I remember correctly, the majority of the gods fought together against them.
- The Underworld was not a pool and the souls weren't all grouped together.


The reason Zeus' children are never called "prince" or "princess" is because they're all immortal. So whether or not they would inherit the throne wouldn't matter because Zeus would never die. In human terms though, Hercules is considered a prince and Megara his princess. In the same way that Ariel and her sisters are all princesses, even though the majority of them will never be queen of the sea.

I'm not even going by what they left out of the movie, I'm saying that in the context of the movie, there is never any reference to anyone being called a prince or princess. Yes, Zeus and Jupiter are the king and queen of the gods, but neither in the movie or actual mythology is there any precedent for lableing offspring as a prince or princess. And those aren't things they didn't mention, they were things changed for the context of the story. Disney didn't want Hera inspiring Hercules to kill Meg and their kids.

I'm not saying that Megara wasn't a princess by birth in the original mythos, but also according to the original myths, Hercules was the illegitimate son of Zeus, so he'd be neither there and only royal by Meg's birthright, which has not yet been brought up as an argument yet (watch it be now).

As for Ariel and her sisters...just because all save for one will not rule the sea doesn't make them any less royal by any standards. The fact remains that one of them will at some point assume a throne. When whoever takes reign after Triton comes in, the others would retain a royal title regardless.

SpringHeelJack wrote:I'm not saying that Megara wasn't a princess by birth in the original mythos, but also according to the original myths, Hercules was the illegitimate son of Zeus, so he'd be neither there and only royal by Meg's birthright, which has not yet been brought up as an argument yet (watch it be now).

I must be invisible.

Escapay, in the post right above SpringHellJack's wrote:If we're bringing in the real Greek Mythology, has everyone forgotten that Megara was the daughter of Creon, the King of Thebes? That would make her...*gasp*...a princess! And she wouldn't need to marry Hercules to keep the title, she was born with it!

Escapay

Escapay wrote:

SpringHeelJack wrote:I'm not saying that Megara wasn't a princess by birth in the original mythos, but also according to the original myths, Hercules was the illegitimate son of Zeus, so he'd be neither there and only royal by Meg's birthright, which has not yet been brought up as an argument yet (watch it be now).

I must be invisible.

Escapay, in the post right above SpringHellJack's wrote:If we're bringing in the real Greek Mythology, has everyone forgotten that Megara was the daughter of Creon, the King of Thebes? That would make her...*gasp*...a princess! And she wouldn't need to marry Hercules to keep the title, she was born with it!

Escapay

Oh, dear Escapay, you are not invisible. I was attempting to acknowledge that in my post, but since I didn't quote you, I did a shoddy job of it.

There seems to be a trend I'm noticing here, whenever Meg is brought up someone else brings up the myth or non-disney Meg from Ancient Greece. I think we need to leave the original mythos out since we could keep going back and forth like this until we go stir crazy So if we go by JUST THE DISNEY MOVIE version of Meg than we need to take these points into account:

- Did she or did she not marry Hercules? In one episode of the t.v series it shows the two of them living together but no hint that they married (unless they did mention it and I forgot)

- Despite Hercules declining (sp?) rejoining his parents on Olympus he still retains his "Prince" status

- Hercules also seems to have retained his God like strength in the t.v series episode with Meg where it takes place after the movie, so he still has his powers as well it seems.

One last thing I want to point out is something SpringHeelJack mentioned about Zeus and Jupiter being King and Queen of the gods. Jupiter is the Roman equivalent of Zeus, so Jupiter isn't a Queen of the gods.

Now onto some characters I've seemed to have missed in my list

Nala - Not in princess list because in LK2 she's the Queen of the Pridelands
Kiara - Same as Nala but is also a Princess for the one movie
Kidagakash - Also a Queen by the end of the movie
Sarabi - Queen in first half or so of the Lion King
Faline - Princess of the Forest due to her relationship with Bambi
Kida's Mom - Only had a couple minutes of screentime but still is a Queen
Lillian? - Aurora's Mother, also a Queen
Evil Queen - Yes despite being a villain she is a Queen

So the only reason I've added these characters is because they had to have come from some sort of royal lineage to be Queen, unless they married but I'm assuming they were of Princess status before becoming Queen

castleinthesky wrote:

Disney's Divinity wrote:Unless you take into account the fact that Zeus is basically the king of the gods. And if he's not king, he's chief, which makes a world of difference (sarcasm, if you couldn't tell). So Meg would still end up being a princess (if Pocahontas' title as an actual princess means anything).

But then we're assuming Meg marries Hercules, another strech. It's just safter to keep her out. By the same way Nala could be grandfathered in, ridiculously.

Nala wouldnt need to be "grandfathered in," she's Queen of the Pride Lands! Have you not seen the movie? Her and Simba are the lion equivalent of married, so no need to bend rules to get her in. And why wouldn't Meg marry Hercules? Even if it weren't a Disney movie, it's not a stretch.

Chernabog_Rocks wrote:One last thing I want to point out is something SpringHeelJack mentioned about Zeus and Jupiter being King and Queen of the gods. Jupiter is the Roman equivalent of Zeus, so Jupiter isn't a Queen of the gods.

Whoops. My mistake. I was caught up in things, and slipped in Jupiter for some reason instead of Hera...odd.

Chernabog_Rocks wrote:Nala - Not in princess list because in LK2 she's the Queen of the Pridelands
Kiara - Same as Nala but is also a Princess for the one movie
Kidagakash - Also a Queen by the end of the movie
Sarabi - Queen in first half or so of the Lion King
Faline - Princess of the Forest due to her relationship with Bambi
Kida's Mom - Only had a couple minutes of screentime but still is a Queen
Lillian? - Aurora's Mother, also a Queen
Evil Queen - Yes despite being a villain she is a Queen

So the only reason I've added these characters is because they had to have come from some sort of royal lineage to be Queen, unless they married but I'm assuming they were of Princess status before becoming Queen

Uhm, Ariel got married and became Queen of France, and is still considered a Princess.

OFFICIAL DISNEY PRINCESSES: The main female protagonist of a Disney movie; a Disney Princess is one who shows good personal qualities, can speak to animals, and is human. In some cases, a heroine of virtue and high moral fibre may become an official Disney Princess, even if they lack royal status.

That is just how Disney does it, and I agree with their descision to include Mulan. I also understand why animals aren't included, and - as the above definition explains - royal parents aren't either. I'm a little bit disapointed in how many fans argue that certain Disney characters shouldn't be named princesses because of their lack of royal status, instead of realising what a good influence they will be on the target audience.

Fantasmic wrote:Uhm, Ariel got married and became Queen of France, and is still considered a Princess.

Prince Eric isn't French...it's never stated what he is, but if anything, I'd guess Danish, due to Hans Christian Anderson being from Denmark and the mermaid statue there...

Fantasmic wrote:I'm a little bit disapointed in how many fans argue that certain Disney characters shouldn't be named princesses because of their lack of royal status, instead of realising what a good influence they will be on the target audience.

I'm still disappointed in how many fans argue that characters like Eilonwy and Kidakagash shouldn't be included just because their movies aren't popular enough. Sure, it's just a merchandise line, but it's ridiculous that both Disney and some fans refuse to acknowledge their status as actual princesses who share the same qualities as those in the line.

Yes, the "Princess" line according to Disney is about heroines with good morals and virtues that may or may not necessarily be called Princess in their films. But having Disney and fans simply disregarding Eilonwy and Kidakagash is just as insulting as animation fans disregarding the package films simply because they're not popular. Or animation "fans" who disregard CGI due to some misplaced grudge against it for "taking over" from 2D animation.

Escapay

SpringHeelJack wrote:

Fantasmic wrote:Uhm, Ariel got married and became Queen of France, and is still considered a Princess.

Prince Eric isn't French...it's never stated what he is, but if anything, I'd guess Danish, due to Hans Christian Anderson being from Denmark and the mermaid statue there...

Yes, he is. His accent isn't, but at the opening speech of Disneyland Resort Paris (then EuroDisney), the speaker (Michael Eisner, I believe) mentioned that Paris had been home to many Disney movies, including The Little Mermaid. Look at the culture, clothing and singing chefs found in Prince Eric's kingdom.

Escapay wrote:

Fantasmic wrote:I'm a little bit disapointed in how many fans argue that certain Disney characters shouldn't be named princesses because of their lack of royal status, instead of realising what a good influence they will be on the target audience.

I'm still disappointed in how many fans argue that characters like Eilonwy and Kidakagash shouldn't be included just because their movies aren't popular enough. Sure, it's just a merchandise line, but it's ridiculous that both Disney and some fans refuse to acknowledge their status as actual princesses who share the same qualities as those in the line.

Yes, the "Princess" line according to Disney is about heroines with good morals and virtues that may or may not necessarily be called Princess in their films. But having Disney and fans simply disregarding Eilonwy and Kidakagash is just as insulting as animation fans disregarding the package films simply because they're not popular. Or animation "fans" who disregard CGI due to some misplaced grudge against it for "taking over" from 2D animation.

Escapay

Noone is saying that they aren't princesses, but rather that they're not OFFICIAL Disney Princesses. And I can't speak for Eilonwy, but Kidakagash wasn't very princess-like, for a couple reasons. Watch the movie, and see if she's the type of person parents want their kids emulating. And no, she doesn't share all of the same qualities; she has no animal sidekick and is seen (if I'm not mistaken) chowing down brutishly on what is quite obviously an animal.

Actually I always thought Prince Eric, Carlotta, Grimsby and the sailors looked of Spaniard Descent with the clothing style and how the Castle and Town is structured. The only person who is French for sure in that movie is Chef Louis and he could have easily traveled from somewhere. Ariel wouldnt be a Queen because Eric wasnt a King cause he's a Prince making Ariel the Princess...but who cares she was already a Princess of the Ocean or something lol. Im pretty sure The Little Mermaid takes place in either Spain or Denmark maybe even Portugal I dunno...but not France...and Micheal Eisner is wrong!! Im joking...heck if I know for sure...Now Im going to ask the Directors where the heck this movie takes place! Cause I need to know...otherwise its just another reason why my head wants to blow up off the face of UltimateDisneyinterenetland...

Since when do the main characters of Disney movies have accents anyway lol(besides the characters in movies like Peter Pan and Alice and a few others)

Beauty and the Beast is in France fo sho...17th century...I think...

Disney's Cinderella is based of the French version of Cinderella...so Im guessing their all French as well

Snow White hmm not sure...I think German? i dunno

Sleeping Beauty...14th Century England? All I know is that it takes place during the 14 hundreds..in some European Country.

Pocahontas...Native American...Yaaaaaaaay. Go American History!(even if this movie is unaccurate! Who cares because its still awesome!)

Mulan...Need I even say? Chinese duhhh...The whole movie is about saving China lol.

jeremy88 wrote:Actually I always thought Prince Eric, Carlotta, Grimsby and the sailors looked of Spaniard Descent with the clothing style and how the Castle and Town is structured. The only person who is French for sure in that movie is Chef Louis and he could have easily traveled from somewhere. Ariel wouldnt be a Queen because Eric wasnt a King cause he's a Prince making Ariel the Princess...but who cares she was already a Princess of the Ocean or something lol. Im pretty sure The Little Mermaid takes place in either Spain or Denmark maybe even Portugal I dunno...but not France unless it was like...the 16th century of France...before all the War an junk...and Micheal Eisner is wrong!! Im joking...heck if I know for sure...Now im going to ask the Directors where the heck this movie takes place!

Since when do the main characters of Disney movies have accents anyway lol(besides the characters in movies like Peter Pan and Alice and a few others)

Beauty and the Beast is in France fo sho...17th century...I think...

Disney's Cinderella is based of the French version of Cinderella...so Im guessing their all French as well

Snow White hmm not sure...I think German? i dunno

Sleeping Beauty...14th Century England? All I know is that it takes place during the 14 hundreds..in some European Country.

Definately not Spanish. And Prince Eric had no parents to speak of, and in the second movie him and Ariel are King and Queen.

Eric lives in a castle by the sea...ergo, not Paris...

And if we're going by outside resources, there was the one episode of the TV show where Hans Christian Anderson was inspired to write the story after he met Ariel, placing it in Denmark.

Maybe they were on vacation! lol I dunno...shouldnt hes title have been King Eric then?

You keep forgetting that even if Disney borrows a character from elsewhere, that doesn't mean that everything is the same about them. Just as not all the facts about the gods were the same in Hercules, Han Christian Anderson's ethnicity may not be the same (or relevant -- he could be a Danish man who is travelling, no?) as is factually correct.

But The Little Mermaid was written in Denmark in 1836...And Hans Christian Anderson was a Danish man*author* who lived in Denmark his entire life.