DVDizzy Forum

Apparently, you didn't quite hear me...

Lars Vermundsberget wrote:

Apparently, you didn't quite hear me... Very Happy

I think the 45 Escapay is talking about includes "Chicken Little." It's all relative in my opinion. I can see where some people like to classify "Chicken Little" as the begining of a new line, and I can see where people include it as number 45. I personally fall into the latter group since it is the 45th film made by WDFA.

Well I'm totally confused. Can someone explain exactly how a film gets labeled "a classic"? And I guess there are different criteria because you're saying that Europe it is different than it is over here in R1 land?

I'm with Zoltack. On the one hand, it seems that it should be older films that get labeled classics, but if it is newer films that are being called "a classic" then one would assume it is because they were box office dynamos or something. The Wild was supposedly a box office bust, wasn't it? On the other hand, I would think if a film broke new ground somehow for the studio, then films like Chicken Little AND Toy Story would be classics.

BTW, the Library of Congress had inducted Toy Story into its film library. One must say it definitely deserves "classic" status.

On the other hand, if the term "classic" is basically nothing but a marketing tool, then every film Disney puts out would/should be called "a classic" from the marketing standpoint of it helping sales.

Pluto Region1 wrote:Well I'm totally confused. Can someone explain exactly how a film gets labeled "a classic"? And I guess there are different criteria because you're saying that Europe it is different than it is over here in R1 land?

It's a long and complicated process that involves several weeks of debate and a few murders of those who disagree, but in the long run, there are really several definitions of a "classic", in the Disney sense.

1. Disney Animated Classic (WDFA All Definition) - any film that originated in story, production, animation, and release through Walt Disney Feature Animation (WDFA). These are the 44 traditional animated films, and the new CGI films like Chicken Little, Meet the Robinsons, American Dog, Rapunzel...

1a. Disney Animated Classic (2D WDFA Definition) - 2D films originating from WDFA. Limited at the moment to only 44 films.

1b. Disney Animated Classic (3D WDFA Definition) - "new" listing that pertains only to CGI films originating in WDFA, with Chicken Little being the first in the list.

2. Disney Animated Classic (Marketing Definition R1) - from about the late 80s to 2002 or 2003, a marketing term used to label films, again, originating from WDFA. No longer "officially" used in R1 world.

2a. Disney Animated Classic (Marketing Definition R2 UK) - a more broad marketing tactic, in which "Walt Disney Classics" or something similar is branded on specific titles that are distributed by Disney, but not produced by WDFA (and in The Wild's case, produced by CORE, distributed by Disney, though how much Disney had in the input of production is an enigma). "The Wild" is Classic 46 in MDR2UK's definition.

2b. Disney Animated Classic (Marketing Definition R2 and elsewhere) - even more broad, anything from Disney is simply labeled "Walt Disney Classics", regardless if it's from WDFA or not. Even films like Mary Poppins.

3. Disney Animated Classic (denotation definition of "classic") - films that are culturally significant and made an impact at the time of its release that the public generally acknowledges that it is a classic in the dictionary sense of the word. Make Mine Music, for example, may not be considered a classic, while The Little Mermaid is.

3a. Disney Animated Classic (connotation definition of "classic") - changes according to every individual's opinions, but essentially what one person perceives to be worthy of being a Disney Classic. I don't care much for The Lion King and wouldn't call it a classic to me, but acknowledge that it is a visually impressive film with somewhat overblown music (except "Can you Feel...") and characters I just can't connect with on any level (except Scar).

4. Animated Classic (uppercase) - a branded line by Disney that draws its canon from definition 1, as films from WDFA.

4a. animated classic (lowercase) - a variation to definitions 3 and 3a, in that it can be used towards any animated film. Gulliver's Travels (1939), for example, can be considered an animated classic by some, while just an old animated film by others. Likewise, a recent film like Shrek may be regarded as an animated classic by its fans, though others refuse to acknowledge it as such.

Pluto Region1 wrote:On the other hand, if the term "classic" is basically nothing but a marketing tool, then every film Disney puts out would/should be called "a classic" from the marketing standpoint of it helping sales.

Then films like "The Pacifier" would be called classic, and it'd truly be stretching the definition and watering down the name.

Out of all the definitions I came up with, I think I'd likely use definitions 1, 3a, 4, and 4a to an extent. Gulliver's Travels is a Fleisher Animated Classic, bwahaha.

Escapay

All in notion of Escapay's definitions of "Disney Classic" being posted as a stickey, say "Ay!"

Very well done.

Well I live in Europe and I got my copy of The Wild yesterday (free review copy, no way I'd be coughing up whatever they ask for it) and it is not labelled as an animated classic.

goofystitch wrote:Lars Vermundsberget wrote:

Apparently, you didn't quite hear me... Very Happy

I think the 45 Escapay is talking about includes "Chicken Little." It's all relative in my opinion. I can see where some people like to classify "Chicken Little" as the begining of a new line, and I can see where people include it as number 45. I personally fall into the latter group since it is the 45th film made by WDFA.

Sure, I understand what Escapay is saying, and I'm pretty sure he understands what I'm saying - that's all right. In a later post he quite accurately points out a number of definitions of the term "classic" used in this context - which clearly shows that we're just having a rather pointless struggle over words again (or rather this one particular word). I'd suggest that we to some extent try to abandon the use of the word "classic" in those cases where there's "obvious potential for controversy" - and start using expressions that clearer describe what we're really talking about. For instance, I guess "Traditionally Animated Features" or "Traditionally Animated Classics" would be clear enough to cover "The 44".

Escapay wrote:3a. Disney Animated Classic (connotation definition of "classic") - changes according to every individual's opinions, but essentially what one person perceives to be worthy of being a Disney Classic. I don't care much for The Lion King and wouldn't call it a classic to me, but acknowledge that it is a visually impressive film with somewhat overblown music (except "Can you Feel...") and characters I just can't connect with on any level (except Scar).

Well, you're 3rd definition, being a film that had a huge cultural impact simply has to apply to The Lion King. The impact this movie had on animated movies and how they are perceived can't be denied.

I don't think it was entirely down to The Lion King, I think the film rode the crest of a wave which started with TLM, BATB and Aladdin, but it can't be denied that these characters have become pop culture icons.

darth_deetoo wrote:

Escapay wrote:3a. Disney Animated Classic (connotation definition of "classic") - changes according to every individual's opinions, but essentially what one person perceives to be worthy of being a Disney Classic. I don't care much for The Lion King and wouldn't call it a classic to me, but acknowledge that it is a visually impressive film with somewhat overblown music (except "Can you Feel...") and characters I just can't connect with on any level (except Scar).

Well, you're 3rd definition, being a film that had a huge cultural impact simply has to apply to The Lion King. The impact this movie had on animated movies and how they are perceived can't be denied.

I'm not denying that people acknowledge the film as a classic, but as for personal taste, I can't call it that simply because I cannot fully enjoy a film that just has very little to appeal to me (as I said before, I only really enjoy "Can you Feel..." and Scar). 10 years from now, 20 years from now, 30 years from now, my opinion may change, but at the moment I cannot enjoy the film at all and cannot consider it a classic, regardless if other people do. Am I saying that their opinion that it's a classic is wrong? No, I'm simply disagreeing with them for my own reasons. It's not like a religion, where a non-believer must be punished or converted in order to be saved. It's just one's opinion of a film. I'll acknowledge that people can enjoy the movie and consider it classic, but there's too much about the film that I *don't* like to use "classic" in the connotation that they do to describe "The Lion King".

Escapay

Lars Vermundsberget wrote:

goofystitch wrote:Lars Vermundsberget wrote: I think the 45 Escapay is talking about includes "Chicken Little." It's all relative in my opinion. I can see where some people like to classify "Chicken Little" as the begining of a new line, and I can see where people include it as number 45. I personally fall into the latter group since it is the 45th film made by WDFA.

Sure, I understand what Escapay is saying, and I'm pretty sure he understands what I'm saying - that's all right. In a later post he quite accurately points out a number of definitions of the term "classic" used in this context - which clearly shows that we're just having a rather pointless struggle over words again (or rather this one particular word). I'd suggest that we to some extent try to abandon the use of the word "classic" in those cases where there's "obvious potential for controversy" - and start using expressions that clearer describe what we're really talking about. For instance, I guess "Traditionally Animated Features" or "Traditionally Animated Classics" would be clear enough to cover "The 44".

Yeah...what he said.

Escapay

Just looking at the insert for my Cinderella dvd and where the classics canon list is shown, it has The Wild as number 46.

Is this correct?

The Wild is released under the "Walt Disney Pictures Presents" banner is it not?

I was under the impression that Meet The Robinsons was to be 46.

Unfortuanatly It has always been this way in the UK

so its just for us in the U.K then? Yeh nice one Disney

rafiki wrote:so its just for us in the U.K then? Yeh nice one Disney

well and Scandinavia at least, I know it's not in the US

Well, how is it in the U.S? What are the official "numbers" of the disney classics?

sotiris2006 wrote:Well, how is it in the U.S? What are the official "numbers" of the disney classics?

well 44-46 is this list

44- Home on the Range
45- Chicken Little
46- Meet The Robinsons

is that really that much different than the UK? except for The Wild of course. Then again the U.S. has stopped using a numbering system so maybe The Wild is considered a "classic". It doesn't refer to itself as a classic anywhere on our release though.

In the U.S., Disney has stopped officially counting, so it's kind of up to the consumer. There are many takes on it. I prefer to only include anything made by Walt Disney Feature Animation, who made all of the other classics. For example, "A Goofy Movie" is not included because it was produced by Disney's television animation department. Some people like to cut it off at "Home on the Range" and not include "Chicken Little" because it isn't 2D. Others feel that the term "classic" can only apply to something that has a.) been around for more than 10 years and b.) is widely loved by the public. Those people don't like the concept of a chronological list. However, most people agree that "The Wild" doesn't meet the criteria for being included because it was not animated by WDFA.

why have they stopped counting in the U.S?

Nobody's smart enough to work out what number comes after 46.

To be honest, i'm not sure if anyone on here knows. I've never heard a clear reason why.

I personally think they are trying to advertise any film as a classic though, maybe work older films who were not originally in the line-up into the classic status. For example, I can see a future release of "A Goofy Movie" being considered a classic just because it is very popular and will probably continue to be for many years. It also might boost sales for the film. That's just my theory though.