DVDizzy Forum

DisneyJedi wrote:Why are you people being all "doom and gloom"?? They didn't get rid of ALL their hand-drawn animators! If hand-drawn WERE dead, they would have gotten rid of all of them and they wouldn't have bothered with making The Princess and the Frog altogether.

God, I sound like a broken record for repeatedly saying that, but you people are just being downright ignorant for realizing it.

REINIER wrote:Lasseter's reign of 3d terror and sole creative control are what's to blame!

SWillie! wrote:

REINIER wrote:Lasseter's reign of 3d terror and sole creative control are what's to blame!

Sotiris and Divinity, take note. You guys say I exaggerate the over-the-top hate for Lasseter around here.

DisneyJedi wrote:Why are you people being all "doom and gloom"?? They didn't get rid of ALL their hand-drawn animators! If hand-drawn WERE dead, they would have gotten rid of all of them and they wouldn't have bothered with making The Princess and the Frog altogether.

God, I sound like a broken record for repeatedly saying that, but you people are just being downright ignorant for realizing it.

WDAS is not interested in carrying its hand-drawn staff. (They were told last year that their time at the studio was finite.)

SWillie! wrote:

REINIER wrote:Lasseter's reign of 3d terror and sole creative control are what's to blame!

Sotiris and Divinity, take note. You guys say I exaggerate the over-the-top hate for Lasseter around here.

DisneyJedi wrote:If hand-drawn WERE done, they'd have let ALL their 2D animators go.

WDAS is not interested in carrying its hand-drawn staff. (They were told last year that their time at the studio was finite.)

DisneyJedi wrote:Now look who's the broken record! I know for a fact that Lasseter said that he was interested in bringing the medium back.

But he freaking lied!

Steve Hulett wrote:There was a push to do more hand-drawn features when Lasseter and Catmull arrived, but the studio (Iger) didn't want to go all in.

DisneyJedi wrote:Now look who's the broken record! I know for a fact that Lasseter said that he was interested in bringing the medium back.

But he freaking lied!

Lnds500 wrote:

WDAS is not interested in carrying its hand-drawn staff. (They were told last year that their time at the studio was finite.)

PatrickvD wrote:I'm fine with this 2nd death of hand drawn, because TPatF kind of felt like closure to me anyway. So here comes my way too long analysis and 2 cents on the matter...

The idea that people largely avoided that film because it was hand drawn will always seem laughable to me. As much as I enjoy The Princess and the Frog, it has serious pacing/story issues. Much more than any of the previous Musker/Clements films and I think most people agree on that. Even Hercules and Treasure Planet had a stronger flow and pacing.

I think there are MANY reasons why the film underperformed. But a Nostalgia Chick analysis once said it best; it was avoided in cinemas because in general, Hollywood and its audience, or rather, 'the media', is pretty racist (yes I went there). When a movie has an all-African American cast (or predominantly as this film) it is automatically labeled a 'black film'. The highest grossing Tyler Perry film (granted they suck but that's not the point) is sitting at around $90 million. There really wasn't anywhere to go with this film Box Office wise... I've always thought the $104 million was slightly above expectations, considering the issue of race. Just look at live action, how many African American movie stars put butts in the seat? Denzel Washington and Samuel L. Jackson are the only ones that come to mind really. Eddie Murphy's days are over and his work was easy to sell to white people anyway because well, come on, his stuff was kind of racist. And women? Halle Berry is probably the biggest star, but she is considered Box Office poison and Whoopi Goldberg's status as movie star is long gone. There are many respected black actors yes, but they don't sell tickets. Zoe Saldana can't headline a movie and no matter how hard Meryl Streep campaigns for Viola Davis, she still isn't getting good roles. Why would a hand drawn animated film with a black Disney princess be treated as Box Office royalty, you know... as an 'event film' when African American characters and movies are struggling so much in live action? It's just not how Hollywood works. Just my gut feeling, because I know this is a touchy subject.

I called this whole thing four years ago. (with some digging I might be able to even find it in the forum). TPatF was always going to gross less than Tangled. While hand drawn versus CG may have something to do with it. I'm more than willing to bet that it's much more complex than that. France, Germany and the Benelux went nuts over Rapunzel and contributed greatly to its Box Office success, because the story was the last truly iconic fairytale. It was going to be a big hit regardless of what Disney was going to call it or how it was marketed or even what medium it was made in.

The moment news came out that Tangled was going to be CG after the hand drawn TPatF, I knew which one would be a bigger hit and that executives would attribute its success to the medium, rather than the subject matter of the individual films. And I also think we all knew immediately what that would mean for the future of hand drawn animation. Tangled was a hit on paper while TPatF wasn't. Especially not with its story problems in the final execution. There's a reason the story of Rapunzel had been cooking for so long at Disney. It was always a sure-fire hit. Frog had way too much baggage compared to Tangled.

We all knew there would be no more hand drawn animation anyway around two years ago. At least, I think I did. Winnie the Pooh made only $30 million worldwide. Not because it was bad, but because that was Disney's plan all along. They dumped Brother Bear and Home on the Range in the exact same way. It was given a limited release with little to no promotion. The last Tinkerbell film stands at $70 million or so from overseas alone and that has gone largely unnoticed. If Pooh had received the same release strategy as that film, it would have easily cleared at least $100 million worldwide. It's not that hard, because the brand name is strong enough. But I don't think that's what Disney wanted. Hell, I don't even think the movie was released in many countries. It was dumped as another 'hand drawn is dead' excuse. So the writing was on the wall two years ago. I mean, going up against Deathly Hallows 2? 'Counter programming' they call it. Sure.

As for Ralph's overseas underperformance (according to TAG blog). That's just weird. It grossed only about $20 million less than Brave. And while Ralph definitely failed in key markets like South Korea, France and Germany. Maybe, just maybe, it would be nice if the marketing department gets a kick in the ass for that. How do you mess up a tentpole Disney film (with great reviews) in Europe during freaking Christmas?!?!? It's WDAS' job to deliver a great film. They did. Marketing failed here. I saw more ads here in Holland for Rise of the Guardians, which was already dead on arrival in the US, than I did for Ralph. This is just Bolt all over again. People aren't going to see a movie they've never heard of.

So in the end, the reasons for hand drawn's failed resurrection will always be debatable, but it's okay to let it go. I would much rather see them experiment with new CGI techniques than do this whole hand drawn dance all over again just because they feel they owe it to the medium. I'd much rather enjoy the classic films than receive headaches from half-assed attempts to revive the whole thing.

So bring on Frozen.

And while Ralph definitely failed in key markets like South Korea, France and Germany. Maybe, just maybe, it would be nice if the marketing department gets a kick in the ass for that.

Denzel Washington and Samuel L. Jackson are the only ones that come to mind really.

Super Aurora wrote:This post gave me an orgasm. Spot on!

Super Aurora wrote:I want to clarify two things though in your post.

And while Ralph definitely failed in key markets like South Korea, France and Germany. Maybe, just maybe, it would be nice if the marketing department gets a kick in the ass for that.

Considering this was a video game movie, they should of put in some Starcraft shit in it and market it. Instant success from S.Korea!

Super Aurora wrote:

Denzel Washington and Samuel L. Jackson are the only ones that come to mind really.

You forgot Morgan Freeman.

DisneyAnimation88 wrote:

DisneyJedi wrote:Now look who's the broken record! I know for a fact that Lasseter said that he was interested in bringing the medium back.

But he freaking lied!

Steve Hulett wrote:There was a push to do more hand-drawn features when Lasseter and Catmull arrived, but the studio (Iger) didn't want to go all in.

Lasseter was interested, by the sounds of it his boss was not.

Paul Briggs wrote:Not a lot but still some hand drawn anim goin on here -its good to have this n our halls as a reminder of its power.

DisneyJedi wrote:Only one question, does Tom Staggs support hand-drawn animation?