DVDizzy Forum

Hmph. You certainly do apologize a lot, as you said and gave reasons for. Well, don't worry, you haven't caused any bad feelings in me that you could help, merely saying you're straight causes some. I suppose my dream of a boy who likes the princess films but also being a "man" has come true. But it doesn't feel like a dream come true. Maybe to some straight girl. Or maybe I wanted someone to like the princess films and be a man, and be gay. Like a macho fairy. Will my manly godmother grant my wish?

Mike wrote:Hmph. You certainly do apologize a lot

I'm sorry (pun intended), but I couldn't help but laugh. It's just the way that the line reads...

Hmph. You certainly do apologize a lot

Like it's the part in the sitcom where the camera keeps cutting back and forth between the characters' reactions and strange faces while the audience laughs.

Mike wrote:Like a macho fairy.

Like this?



Albert

Disney Duster wrote:Hmph. You certainly do apologize a lot, as you said and gave reasons for. Well, don't worry, you haven't caused any bad feelings in me that you could help, merely saying you're straight causes some. I suppose my dream of a boy who likes the princess films but also being a "man" has come true. But it doesn't feel like a dream come true. Maybe to some straight girl. Or maybe I wanted someone to like the princess films and be a man, and be gay. Like a macho fairy. Will my manly godmother grant my wish?

There are men like that out there. Trust me. I would consider myself one of them. My friend Cynthia told me she didn't know I was gay until I started sharing my interests with her, and that tipped her off.

...though admittedly, I don't think I care for "Cinderella" as much as you do. I have nothing against it, but it's not high on my list.

Thank you Escabert, but oh, I forgot!:

Escapay wrote:

PrincePhillipFan wrote:It's funny though, since I am straight myself, a lot of my interests are often labeled gay by ignorant, opposing people (my love for the Disney fairy tale films and musicals and romance films, taking a part in theater productions at school, etc).

Welcome to the club!

*AHEM* But you have desires for the same sex, too, my friend. I will wait for PrincePhillipFan to come out of the castle like a princess waiting for true love's kiss.

Thank you Brendjack (I'm being weird tonight), but there's a difference between being masculine and liking sondheim and being manly and liking to deisgn fancy ballgowns. Still, you come close and I thank you for revealing that about yourself. Especially that bit about your interests tipping her off. You see everyone, gayness really does extend beyond sexuality. I'm proud to be gay through and through.

Of course you don't care for Cinderella like me. No one does. I'm aloooooone. But I honestly can understand why it's not thought to be so great. I see it faults, I see it's mediocres, and I still love it in spite of it all. Sometimes I even think things you would say to a family member. "I don't like you, but I love you."

I love fashion design as much as the next gay stereotype. I recall my sister had this one CD-Rom that was designing Barbie fashions... I played with it more than she did. I'm not up on high fashion, but I can tell you what I like and I dig costume design. I mean, who doesn't like to look good?

I can appreciate Cinderella's desire to want to wear a pretty dress and dance with a hunky Prince, but that's about it. I enjoyed her movie more than I thought I would, after not seeing it in many years, but it just never did much for me. "Sleeping Beauty", now that's a picture! What I wouldn't give to be Maleficent somedays.

SpringHeelJack wrote:I can appreciate Cinderella's desire to want to wear a pretty dress and dance with a hunky Prince, but that's about it. I enjoyed her movie more than I thought I would, after not seeing it in many years, but it just never did much for me. "Sleeping Beauty", now that's a picture! What I wouldn't give to be Maleficent somedays.

I think it's because Cinderella seems to take place more in a blue-collar world and Sleeping Beauty is a much prettier world. More breath-taking, complex, rich, more sights to see. Even if it doesn't have the story, it's suggestive enough to satisfy on a visual level.

SpringHeelJack wrote:But it's like, you tell me which is "gayer"-

Football, which involves muscular men in tight pants tackling each other and grabbing their teammates' butts

You forgot : bending over in front of each other, to which the other teammates line up to these men instead of walking away.

Flanger-Hanger wrote:

SpringHeelJack wrote:Football, which involves muscular men in tight pants tackling each other and grabbing their teammates' butts

But then why is it so boring to watch? That's the real question.

It's boring because almost all sports are boring.

Disney's Divinity wrote:Yeah, it does seem like an excuse for guys to vent their sexual aggression out on each other.

When you look at it really closely, it seems that all sports are about sex. But in a very disturbing way. Guys being picky (which we know they are naturally anyway), carefully judging and critiquing the performance style and technique of other men, the hooting and hollering... That's why I have always enjoyed watching one-on-one sports like boxing and wrestling. But I always feel dirty when they're on. Can't anyone else see it but me? It feels like they're supposed to be so sexy, that we're supposed to find it alluring in some way. Why else does it excite so many people? Whether it's the guys "at top physical condition," the fact that they're shirtless and yet fighting (for no real reason - women used to comment on that a lot), the "spectator" event factor with everyone watching it (like sex is hard to turn your head away from), and every move is crucial. The audience wants to be satisfied - like a lover / sexual partner. And to me, it feels like the people who organize these sorts of things are pimps and the athletes remind me of prostitutes. Getting paid to perform for us. To strip down partially for action, or to dress up for action (either way they put on "gear" and "get down to business").



I do want to say something else- since we seem to be (now) addressing gay and straight stereotypes - I think fashion, like sports, brings out the worst in a lot of people. That really sad and sorry shallow, superficial, materialistic, comsumer-driven side of people who otherwise aren't so judgmental and petty. I mean, I think we all (if we've ever been sensitive) have had our run-ins with insensitive girls who pick on other girls because of their weight or a part of their body considered less attractive. Fashion is an institution of the very same thinking as those "mean girls" in school.

And personally, I don't see / get a lot of the interest in what are considered "gay icons" to most people. To me, if Barbra Streisand has any quality worth being admired, it's not her style or her boring music (sorry- I even fall asleep to her disco-ish dance music). I think it's her very intelligent social / political beliefs and her way of speaking to people that make her worth paying attention. I think many gay music fans see glamour and mistake it for confidence. Like most commercialized ideals, it's just a facade. The real working ingredients of confidence can't be exibited in musical numbers and dance sequences. And can't be shown through costumes and make-up and flashiness.

But also- I find the performances and music of Celine Dion, Judy & Liza, Britney Spears, Gloria Gaynor, and an insane number of like performers to usually be more boring than anything else. Maybe it's because of the emphasis on glamour and personality panache. But to anyone who isn't gay, or for whom these women don't remind them of their mothers... What's the appeal? If it's about personality, then listeners have to get to know the person performing (perhaps through the music) to appreciate the style. But I'm equally dismissive of performers like Elvis (sleepy-time music), Frank Sinatra, Buddy Holly, Bruce Springsteen, etc. I know I'm not the only one.

To me, if Barbra Streisand has any quality worth being admired, it's not her style or her boring music (sorry- I even fall asleep to her disco-ish dance music).

Wow...I was really starting to think I was the only one who felt that way.

Disney Duster wrote:

Hmph. You certainly do apologize a lot, as you said and gave reasons for. Well, don't worry, you haven't caused any bad feelings in me that you could help, merely saying you're straight causes some. I suppose my dream of a boy who likes the princess films but also being a "man" has come true. But it doesn't feel like a dream come true. Maybe to some straight girl.

I'm sorry if it seems like I do apologize a lot. I've just been always paranoid and awkward about first impressions in social situations throughout my life. I'm always afraid I might leave a bad first impression or do something wrong.

You see everyone, gayness really does extend beyond sexuality. I'm proud to be gay through and through.

This I'll agree to, and admit, if judging by my likings and interests, then I am very gay, and can see why others would think that. Probably why a majority of my friends are either girls or homosexuals here at college, is because we share so much of the same interests and act similiar. However, I don't find myself gay in the sexuality sense. I can admit a guy is handsome in an observational way if I'm asked about it, but I don't find them handsome in a sexual way. I know I've questioned myself about the topic a few years ago as I was entering high school who I was attracted to. But now I know that the only one who I have ever been really attracted to is my girlfriend.

Also, if liking the Disney fairy tale films is generally considered gay, then I'll agree to that too. The main reason I think why I tend to love Sleeping Beauty so much, is that (as my username says) I can often identify with Phillip and his personality. Especially in being smitten by the love of his life, and willing to fight against anything to keep it.

If judging by my personality and my interests, then I will come out of the closet and say that I am gay. However, in the sexual sense, I am secure in the fact of knowing that maybe I'm not really heterosexual, homosexual, or bi. It just happens that my love is a lovely, sweet young woman whom I treasure, and I love her for who she is.

Life with Mikey...which is a movie I haven't seen in awhile but want to rent one of these days wrote:Thank you Escabert, but oh, I forgot!:

Escapay wrote: Welcome to the club!

*AHEM* But you have desires for the same sex, too, my friend.

If I may quote myself (that sounds a bit risque...) from a few pages back, as well as PrincePhillipFan's recent post:

On November 16, 2007, I wrote:As for me, I'm on the heterosexual side of the Kinsey scale, but I can acknowledge that there are attractive features of both sexes, be it a physical attraction or a personal/emotional attraction. The human body is a wonderful thing, and we should be able to appreciate it regardless of the "quaint little categories" (Captain Jack Harkness) that society has created over the years.

PrincePhillipFan wrote:However, in the sexual sense, I am secure in the fact of knowing that maybe I'm not really heterosexual, homosexual, or bi. It just happens that my love is a lovely, sweet young woman whom I treasure, and I love her for who she is.

Essentially, I'm willing to consider a committed relationship with anyone. I'm not actively seeking any at the moment, but if I were, it'd most likely and primarily be with a female. Desires stem mainly from "yeah, that person is attractive" but not a "Man, Christian Bale's so hot, I wonder what he's like in bed".

Albert

PrincephillipFan, I already said you gave reasons for why you aplogized. Pretty please read what I say if you're going to respond to it. I'm sure you're a great guy, I like what you have said anywhere else on this forum, but anyone who comes into this gay thread to say they're gay but not gay is going to get me miffed. Anyway, the fairy tale films may have lots of gay stereotypical elements, but of course they were made and intended for every sex and sexuality (well, maybe they weren't intended for gays, really). Prince Phillip is the manliest of the princes, after all. But it seems by loving this girl you are copying Phillip. I she blonde?

Escapay, I feel rather sad, from what we have talked about elesewhere, it sounded like you were much more bi than that. This really points to you being straight if you've never planned on being with a guy. Every guy has man crushes on celebrities. So don't give me some speech about loving anyone regardless of gender if you're not planning on doing that.

Don't cry for me Dustertina wrote:Escapay, I feel rather sad, from what we have talked about elesewhere, it sounded like you were much more bi than that. This really points to you being straight if you've never planned on being with a guy. Every guy has man crushes on celebrities. So don't give me some speech about loving anyone regardless of gender if you're not planning on doing that.

There's a difference between being exclusively one orientation (which is basically the hetero/homo/bi classifications) and being open-minded about loving people as people (which is the ever-controversial pansexuality). I said that if I were to seek a relationship, it'd primarily be with a female, not solely with a female. In essence, I'd think about a relationship with a female first, and it doesn't mean I'm ruling out everything else. It's like enjoying all kinds of ice cream because it's ice cream, but we still like ordering a familiar favorite. In my e-mail I sent earlier this afternoon, I mentioned that I lean sexually towards girls, but that's mainly because like the ice cream, it's a familiar favorite. Doesn't mean it's the only ice cream I'll have in my life. I'm sorry if you misunderstood it as me being exclusively straight (I don't label myself anything anymore, and honestly don't believe anyone's really exclusively anything anyway).

Albert

Disney Duster, I'm sorry if I said anything in my last post that did you get you miffed. I was just trying to point out that many think of what the interests of the stereotype are, I like as well. From most people's standpoint of how they view my relationship, they would say I'm straight because my love is for a girl. I've been thinking a lot about this over, and who I am, and if I really did have to define myself into a category of sexuality, I think I would have to be more towards bi. Throughout my years in high school, I often asked which gender I preferred, and what I was attracted to best, as I was going through the stages of finding out who I was. I can find beauty in both, and equally like them as well. Despite of what I said earlier (I was typing mostly in denial I guess), that even now, I'll admit that I'm still pretty equally bi in the sense that I can be both attracted to men and women equally.

I have always felt more comfortable in the company of girls and gays really, than any other male heterosexual friends. I think that's probably why I feel the most comfortable in this thread is because I always actually seemed to fit in more with other homosexuals as friends and have a lot in common with them than I do with anyone else along with my bi tendencies. I apologize if I did anything wrong in my last post, I just really feel the most comfortable here than with any other group of people.

As for Phillip, I try not exactly copy him, but see him more as a role model. I still have my own personality, but I try my best to be the best prince I can be for her. And yes, for the record I guess you might say her hair is blone, but dark like almost to the point of brown. But her facial features and body type are vastly different than that of Aurora. But, I love her much more than just for her looks, I love her for who she is. I love her mainly for her charm and her personality. I guess what I mean to say is that gender to me really doesn't have an importance when it's about her. I could love her both as a man or a woman.

I'm sorry if it seems like I might have caused any hard feelings against you here in my previous post. I just merely feel like I fit in a lot better amongst the group because of my interests and my previous dabblings, than anywhere else.

Escapay wrote:it doesn't mean I'm ruling out everything else

....So you're telling me there's a chance!! YES!!



lol

Lazario, could I get just a tad more on what you meant by "blue-collar" for Cinderella's world? Do you mean it looks more plain or regular? I know the prince's suit reminds me of today's military more than any of the sweeping caped costumes of the other two Walt era princes, so I wonder if they were going for a more modern, dare I say realistic look. Or did you just mean it looks cheaper, like people were getting lower paid, because Cinderella was made cheaper due to lack of money after the war and they purposely chose a simpler style. However, they also wanted a striking and still beautiful style, which a lot of people say Mary Blair's work is, and Cinderella may be the most Mary Blair influenced. To give me more of an idea, how do you think of Cinderella's backgrounds also in relation to Snow White's?

All I can say to you, Escapay, is okay, I guess I had it wrong (and I'll discover how wrong in your E-mail), but I kept getting the feeling you were getting gayer and gayer, as you revealed more and more about how you felt about the same sex, so I thought you were hiding things from that quote that you slowly let out later.

PrincePhillipFan, I already said there was no way you could help how I felt. I know you sensed som annoyance in my post and I revealed I had some, but there was nothing you could do about it because you weren't doing it on purpose. Now that I know the reason you came in here was because you are friends with many gays and you wanted to find a place where you would be welcome by gays on here, I feel less "arrrghhh" and of course I'll be your friend. I will like talking to a straight guy about fairy tales. So, PrincePhillipFan, don't you hate how Disney thinks only girls like Disney princesses and market the merchandise only to them? Or maybe you don't like the Disney Princess line, just the films themselves, and maybe the books. I'm more into the books of the merchandise anyway, sometimes they have really pretty art. I collect them.

I still want to say, it's highly suspicious when some people have lots of gay interests, instead of just some. I'd be more willing to accept someone as straight if they only had one or two gay interests. But if it's just romance and theater PrincePhillipFan and Escapay are into, that's only really two things, and I guess those would fit in with how past men were. Did anyone ever notice that? Back in the past romantic and musical films where thought of for everyone, now they're chick flicks or gay?

Xxhplinkxx...really? I know Albert has a lot of prettiness going on.

Sorry for adding another reply to this post, but I just wanted to respond to how I acted previously in my other posts. Thanks mostly to talking with Disney Duster here and reading previous posts, I just feel a lot more comfortable in finding out who I am. Throughout most of my life growing up, I always struggled with trying to find who I was and attracted to. I kept trying to convince myself that I was straight throughout my life (like I claimed to be earlier in my postings), but this thread brought up a lot of past experiences and feelings I had years ago in school. It especially had me thinking about the fact that I had crushes equally on both certain girls and boys at the time, although I kept them hidden and tried to suppress. I guess most of my life I just struggled to try to remain straight and convince myself I was, when really deep down I knew I was a closted bisexual. After this thread now I feel like I can be open about it and finally say and understand who I am. I feel no longer ashamed and closeted about it, and feel like now I can happily openly say I am bi. I want to thank everyone especially in this thread for now helping to let out truly who I am.

Woah PrincePhillipFan are you sure? Because I feel like I was harping on you so much you're just relenting. I don't think you can really know who you are until you have sexual experiences. You may not even have them, there are actually some people who have so little interest in sex that they don't care to have it. I just feel like I pressured you into saying you had interest in the same sex like interest in stereotypically gay things.

I'm sorry if I did!

lol, sorry for the post right after Duster. Must have just posted right after you did.

Anyway, yes I'm very sure. I was just questioning myself about it lately, especially after reading through the thread. I don't believe you were harping or pressuring me into anything at all.

I just simply kept thinking about who I was in the past and how I kept on suppressing my feelings. I've never had any really sexual contact before my girlfriend, but I admit throughout my years in high school I did have crushes on both girls and some of my gay friends in school. I wanted to tell them that I thought they were cute as well after they told me, but I kept trying to convince myself mentally that I was completely straight as well, and wasn't supposed to like them. I think it mostly just had to do with my family. I come from a side of staunchly Catholics, so you can imagine my fear of telling them that I might be bi and find myself attracted to both sexes in their own way. I guess I was just pretty much in denial about the whole thing until this thread made me question who I was once again and let be more open about it. I also finally confessed about it to my girlfriend, and she's more than understanding about it, and said that as long as I still have the same love for her that's all that matters. I just felt like I finally needed to confess my sexuality and say that I was attracted and sometimes still am now, to both.

As for the discussion of the princess line, I agree that I am sort of bitter about how it's mostly only marketed to girls. I mostly collect the storybooks like you said, just because I love finding new art and pictures of the characters. My main problem though with the line is that I feel the princes are just seen as bland faceless accessories with no personalities like they have in the movies. I wish Disney would try and give a Disney Heroes line another go at it, like they did before. Although I have to say, I don't blame the people why it didn't take off before, especially since the Phillip action figure looked like a bad Vegas Elvis impersonator to me.

Wow.

It's like, you leave the message board for a night and look what happens.

Ay, yi, yi, yi, yi.

PEOPLE! Being GAY means being attracted to the same sex. Look up "gay" in the dictionary. I GUARANTEE you that you won't find "A male who loves Madonna, theatre, and the color pink" as the definition.
A person's interests does not indicate his or her sexuality, the gender they are attracted to does.

And you can try and knock me down with this one all you want, but I'm sticking by my argument. INTERESTS do not make a person GAY, nor do they make a person straight.

Prince Ali wrote:Ay, yi, yi, yi, yi.

PEOPLE! Being GAY means being attracted to the same sex. Look up "gay" in the dictionary. I GUARANTEE you that you won't find "A male who loves Madonna, theatre, and the color pink" as the definition.
A person's interests does not indicate his or her sexuality, the gender they are attracted to does.

And you can try and knock me down with this one all you want, but I'm sticking by my argument. INTERESTS do not make a person GAY, nor do they make a person straight.

Yea, no one ever said interests make you gay, but they are definately an indicator. PrincePhillipFan realizing he's not entirely straight is evidence interests are indicators of sexuality. They have something to do with each other. Yes, there are exception, lots of guys who are gay but don't act or have interest in typically gay things, but you can't deny there's a link between theater, pink, diva's, and being gay. Just the fact you are and many other gay boys are on a Disney forum, musicals, divas, women singing, is a statement on the gay connections.

Like I said, how can we tell if someone is gay or not if they all act the same. How will you know who to ask out, you need some indicators, and sometimes it's just in how they act, as well as if they have girly interests (more girls than guys do theater in hugh school, and sing and dance).

No, your interests don't define you, but don't deny they have relation to other parts of who you are.