DVDizzy Forum

They still made a version available and tried to pass it off as the original, though.

Disney Duster wrote:I just remembered something.

Disney will say "this title not currently available" when talking about films that are OOP.

Escapay...even Disney admits such a thing...that's why they need to make the original version available, even if only for "a limited time".

Disney admits it, yes. But that doesn't mean the need to make it available, even for a limited time.

Like I said before, if Disney can only release one version, let it be the one the filmmakers prefer.

Beauty and the Beast is no different from any other Disney film that exists in multiple edits. The only reason people think so is because it's treated as apparently being the only film in the Disney canon in multiple edits. Where's the clamor for them to release The Happiest Millionaire in Theatrical Edition and Roadshow Edition? Why isn't anyone making a peep about The Watcher in the Woods getting a Restored Director's Cut ever done? Heck, bring in animated films and demand that all CAPS films be in the properly-matted theatrical 1.85:1 since only a few of them are. And let's not get into the whole issue of the soundtrack. Beauty and the Beast was 4.0 Surround, I think, and more people seem more concerned if they're getting it to look the way they remember as opposed to sounding how they remember.

Ideally, the Blu-Ray will include the 1991 WiP, the 1991 Theatrical, and the 2001 IMAX, simply to shut everyone up. But it's not an ideal world and we'll likely see a repeat of the 2002 DVD where the IMAX edition is intact, and the portions that are different in the theatrical and WiP versions are done via seamless branching (though done better than the 2002 DVD was). That's cheaper than making sure that three versions of the film are transferred to Blu-Ray three different ways ("unaltered" CAPS in 1.85:1 for 1991 Theatrical, altered CAPS in 1.66:1 for IMAX, and maybe just the master print for the WiP).

albert

People have complained about those things on the forum, but no, they're not as big as...

An ENTIRE film looking different throughout the whole film experience!

Also, I still think if a version of the films is to be released, it should be the original theatrical one unless there's a really good reason from the creators not to. And maybe if the changes are small. But Beauty and the Beast had a big bright change of the whole thing, and does not look better with it, and does not seem to have a very good reason!

Disney Duster wrote:People have complained about those things on the forum, but no, they're not as big as...

An ENTIRE film looking different throughout the whole film experience!

Also, I still think if a version of the films is to be released, it should be the original theatrical one unless there's a really good reason from the creators not to. And maybe if the changes are small. But Beauty and the Beast had a big bright change of the whole thing, and does not look better with it, and does not seem to have a very good reason!

I completely agree with this.

If this new Imax color scheme is the original theatrical one then, sure I'm fine with it, I'll stop complaining. However if it's not, then I'm going to rant about it all I want. If it isn't the way the film was originally intended to look, and they have no good or logical reason for why they changed it then personally I think it's ridiculous. The film looks pretty bad in the state it was on the PE. I just want an explanation.. I won't be mad if this is the way the film was supposed to look then fine, but if it's not then shame on the people putting these releases together. We're getting state of the art restorations of all the other films, why should this film, one of Disney's best be treated like this then?

If we get the theatrical version, great, and if we get the IMAX version, I'll be happy with that too. Those who can't tolerate the SE's colors are only looking skin-deep at that version of the film.

ajmrowland wrote:Those who can't tolerate the SE's colors are only looking skin-deep at that version of the film.

! Not when the colors were made to make you feel certain moods! Or stop making sense like the Beast already being well-lit before Belle asks him to come into the light. How can we get a sense of the surprise and fear there?

^Right on that one, but that's the only scene that really ruins it for me. I'm young, so everything else was fine for me when I got the DVD. Just that scene.

Mike Duster wrote:People have complained about those things on the forum, but no, they're not as big as...

An ENTIRE film looking different throughout the whole film experience!

Believe me, Mike, stuff like the Restored Director's Cut for The Watcher in the Woods would greatly change the ENTIRE experience of viewing the film. Not only would 20 minutes be re-instated to the already intense and on-edge atmosphere, but you've got stuff like the Prologue and Melting Doll credits, and Other World sequence that better explains the Watcher, all of which help explain the duality of the Watcher and challenge viewers on their perceptions of things that terrify you by sight versus things that terrify you by action. It's just a pity that Disney has always been slanted more towards satisfying their animated fans at the expense of their live-action ones.

It is much different from fan complaints for Beauty and the Beast. With BATB you've got the same movie. Nothing lost, nothing gained (well, besides "Human Again"). The emotions in the characters are still there. The intensity in some of the animated sequences are still there. The transformation in all its glory is still there. Honestly, the brighter colours don't affect me that much, because I'm still being pulled in to the story by everything else. Maybe because I'm not as visual-thinking as most animated-Disney fans. But it just doesn't affect me as much as it obviously affects you.

Would I like the darker colours re-instated? Sure, why not? It gives it that slightly more gothic feel, though at the same time feeds on the misconception that darker film = more mature = better Disney (if that were the case, people would love The Black Cauldron rather than ignore it). But I can live without it, and at the end of the day, it wouldn't be what you or I want the colours to be anyway. It would be what the filmmakers want them to be.

Mike Duster wrote:Not when the colors were made to make you feel certain moods! Or stop making sense like the Beast already being well-lit before Belle asks him to come into the light. How can we get a sense of the surprise and fear there?

Disconnect the video cable from the DVD player to the Television during that scene so you see nothing at all, then re-insert it after you hear Belle gasp.

albert

DisneyJedi wrote:Hey, I am reading a review of the B&TB Platinum Edition, and I just found out that, and I quote: "Disney even edited an audio mistake on previous editions involving one of the Beast's lines. (Editor's Note: Well, if it was a mistake, which is debatable. Nonetheless, this has altered the original theatrical cut.)"

Which line was it that was edited?

SpringHeelJack wrote:It was when the Beast said "You wanna, you wanna stay in the tower?" I think. Or something like that line. It changed to one "you wanna" as I recall.

Strangely enough, the Beast's "stuttering" is left intact on the 2002 SE VHS even though the colors/visuals match the DVD ones.

Mooky wrote:Strangely enough, the Beast's "stuttering" is left intact on the 2002 SE VHS even though the colors/visuals match the DVD ones.

The stuttering can also be heard on the audio commentary of the DVD.

To be technical Albert, the entire film of Beauty adn the Beast is literally, literally changed, the whole thing, even though it's "just in colors", but which also changes the mood and feel.

And yes, us animation fans like it because it's, um, animation, and we love it for the artwork and, well, the colors...

Mike Duster wrote:To be technical Albert, the entire film of Beauty adn the Beast is literally, literally changed, the whole thing, even though it's "just in colors", but which also changes the mood and feel.

Tell that to a blind person.

And really, you're saying that something as beautiful as the Ballroom Dance is suddenly less effective and has a different mood simply because the room is brighter? Or that Belle's argument with the Beast after she brings him to back to the castle has less of a punch to it because her hair isn't dark brown?

albert

Escapay wrote:

Mike Duster wrote:To be technical Albert, the entire film of Beauty adn the Beast is literally, literally changed, the whole thing, even though it's "just in colors", but which also changes the mood and feel.

Tell that to a blind person.

And really, you're saying that something as beautiful as the Ballroom Dance is suddenly less effective and has a different mood simply because the room is brighter? Or that Belle's argument with the Beast after she brings him to back to the castle has less of a punch to it because her hair isn't dark brown?

albert

Agreed. A film as wonderfully well-written as 'Beauty and the Beast' can override those sorts of cosmetic issues. After all, it's the story which carries us along and pulls us all in, surely?

Cordy_Biddle wrote:After all, it's the story which carries us along and pulls us all in, surely?

Exactly. Pink elephant, valentine candy, and boxing gloves for Cordy!



Movies are more than just something to look at, but I think that concept is lost on most people (animation fans or not).

albert

Cordy_Biddle wrote:Agreed. A film as wonderfully well-written as 'Beauty and the Beast' can override those sorts of cosmetic issues. After all, it's the story which carries us along and pulls us all in, surely?

That's pretty much how I feel. Then again, I still recall the days where *owning* a Disney film was just a dream, and of course when those eventual days of blurry, color-bleeding VHS's were pretty much all we had outside a theatrical release.

The color changes really are just a cosmetic issue, and this is coming from someone that makes money off of doing digital coloring. Me thinks a lot of people around here are picky and spoiled, no offense. I even prefer the original colors myself, but I'm not ready to open a bag of freak because the images are brighter and more reddish.

enigmawing wrote:I even prefer the original colors myself, but I'm not ready to open a bag of freak because the images are brighter and more reddish.

That's exactly how I feel. I like the original colours too, even if it seems like I don't since I'm always spouting "I respect the filmmakers". But really, it's not my decision how the film will look on home video, and some fans need to understand that as well.

albert

I believe that changing colors do change mood, but from a happy to sad emotion would take a few steps from one color to another on the color wheel.

All in all, I'm one of those weirdos who would love if the films aren't tampered with at all. The Bambi version I saw on television when I was a kid is what I want. I used to be picky, wanting the original and have a perfect collection. Then as I took more art classes, I realized nothing in the film world is perfect. Sadly, there are flaws and even though we have all the Disney Classics on our shelves for archival purposes, they still are not perfect. So, I look on the big bright side: there hasn't been a goof by Disney (at least I think) as bad as Spirited Away's Japan release being too red.

Well, the changed colors are also distracting from the well-written story and emotions and acting.

Also, yes, some people, perhaps less, will see the bright colors and think "kids movie" and leave the room when they might not have when seeing the more realistic, moody colors.

Just reminding you all of those as well.

I found this thread by accident but it was a lovely read.

I'm a bit worried that they'll get a bit colour-happy with Fantasia!

I noticed immediately on the Fantasia Anthology DVD
that they had over-dubbed the narrator, and completely,
not just for the extra intros.

And when they zoomed in for, well, you know, during the Pastoral Symphony. Twice I might add. One section looking as if someone had bumped the camera to the side and 'accidentally' cut off what was happening to the left side of the screen.

You notice funny edits like that.

But I thought nothing of what might happen to the colours!

Lets hope they do what they're doing for the BATB Bluray and make it look exquisite.

Fantasia is an artwork of water colour and breath taking painting techniques.
I would weep openly if it all were ruined by gaudy re-colouring.

It reminds me of the Dumbo Big Top edition.
The colours were horribly off in that re-release.
The fluro Pink Elephants on Parade were now a confusing Baby Pink Pastel Pink Elephants.
So lets hope for the Platinum Dumbo they've at least put the colours back to how they were on the other DVD release.

Hooray for Disney Woo.

Hurry up and bring out Fantasia.
And BATB of course.

enigmawing wrote:

Mooky wrote:Strangely enough, the Beast's "stuttering" is left intact on the 2002 SE VHS even though the colors/visuals match the DVD ones.

The stuttering can also be heard on the audio commentary of the DVD.

They obviously payed less attention to the 2002 SE VHS release, and "less attention" means "less tampering" with Disney.