DVDizzy Forum

Fascinating.

Dead animals are part of the circle of life and death. They die and get eaten by other animals, that's the way it goes. When a lion attacks a young zebra for instance, it doesn't care how bad it looks to us. Some things carnivores do, look horrific to us but it's not horrific to them.
They just know when they're hungry.

The more sophisticated (civilized) our human brain gets, the more we would not want to see death and destruction at all. Eat the steak but not see how the animal is shot and bleeding at the slaughter house. But when we walk outside, we kill tons of animals crawling under our feet! We breathe and eat living organisms when we sleep and all day long too.

Bambi and The Lion King feature dead (cartoon) animals as well, is that as difficult for you, or can you deal with these because you know they're not real, just animated? What is it that turns you off dead animals. Is it a feeling of regret for the animal or is it just that you don't want to put yourself through these images because they tend to give you nightmares or shivers?

I'm trying to understand.

blackcauldron85 wrote:[Does Perri have any dead animals in it? I know that it's a True-Life Fantasy, so I'd think not...?]

So, it's possible that I could buy Volume 4, and it has Perri, which I'd like to see!

Some animals do get attacked/killed, and you'll see at least one lifeless animal being carried off to feed another animal's young (I wouldn't label any of these scenes as graphic though, any dying appears off-screen and there's no blood seen). The narrator takes a moment to explain how this is "nature's way;" some must die so that others may survive.

Without offering any spoilers you'll probably cry near the beginning in the same way you'd cry throughout certain moments of the animated films.

And having said all this, I must add that this is a film I grew up on (taped it off of the Disney Channel back in the 80's at the suggestion of my dad) and it is still one of my favorites of all time. I can't tell you how excited I was when this came to DVD. I'm not sure how much of my affection is dictated by nostalgia, but it does have a lot of great and amusing moments in it, especially the scenes involving baby animals.

james2774 wrote: Bambi and The Lion King feature dead (cartoon) animals as well, is that as difficult for you, or can you deal with these because you know they're not real, just animated? What is it that turns you off dead animals. Is it a feeling of regret for the animal or is it just that you don't want to put yourself through these images because they tend to give you nightmares or shivers?

I can deal with animated death, even though it makes me sad, but not in the same way I feel sad when real animals die. Number one, dead things just freak me out...I mean, guts and stuff are gross, but even without guts and stuff, it just makes me really uncomfortable. And, yes, it makes me sad that they died.

enigmawing wrote:Some animals do get attacked/killed, and you'll see at least one lifeless animal being carried off to feed another animal's young (I wouldn't label any of these scenes as graphic though, any dying appears off-screen and there's no blood seen).

Thanks, enigmawing- I still don't think I want to see any lifeless animals.

blackcauldron85 wrote:

james2774 wrote: Bambi and The Lion King feature dead (cartoon) animals as well, is that as difficult for you, or can you deal with these because you know they're not real, just animated? What is it that turns you off dead animals. Is it a feeling of regret for the animal or is it just that you don't want to put yourself through these images because they tend to give you nightmares or shivers?

I can deal with animated death, even though it makes me sad, but not in the same way I feel sad when real animals die. Number one, dead things just freak me out...I mean, guts and stuff are gross, but even without guts and stuff, it just makes me really uncomfortable. And, yes, it makes me sad that they died.

enigmawing wrote:Some animals do get attacked/killed, and you'll see at least one lifeless animal being carried off to feed another animal's young (I wouldn't label any of these scenes as graphic though, any dying appears off-screen and there's no blood seen).

Thanks, enigmawing- I still don't think I want to see any lifeless animals.

Ok, I understand.

I used to fish (I'm a man btw) and gut my own fish for eating. Pretty bloody and guts all over the place. Prepare them with lemon, vegetables and in the oven. Over time though I got disgusted with the inevitable suffering these animals have to go through when you pull them out of the water and remove the hook, sometimes it doesn't go as smoothly as you'd like, that I couldn't bring myself to do it anymore. No matter what fisher-men may say. I never went fishing again, I had a change of mind.

But seeing one animal kill another one, isn't the same for me. That seems necessary and natural, while we humans do a lot of fucked up things to animals with no real purpose other than enjoyment (?). Think about all the rich western pot-bellied trophy hunters in Africa.

james2774 wrote:
Bambi and The Lion King feature dead (cartoon) animals as well, is that as difficult for you, or can you deal with these because you know they're not real, just animated?

Exactly. Seeing Bambi's mother's fate makes me extremely sad, and cry, so much so that it's one of my least favorite DACs. The second half never fully recovers from the tragedy, IMO. The first half, with its unforgettably lovable characters and sublime and beautiful innocence and charm, up to and ending with the Ice Skating sequence, makes an incredibly charming featurette, though!

Having said that, it still is easier to view than REAL death because you know that in Bambi, a deer isn't REALLY dying. In live action documentaries that show the moment of death, a REAL living thing is dying right in front of your eyes. I personally cannot watch this.

I can't stand seeing footage of a living animal die, for the same reasons I wouldn't want to see a human REALLY die on film! I recorded the TL Adventures off Disney channel (Vault Disney) and always had to cringe and look away when they showed something die. Frankly, this is probably the biggest reason I haven't yet rushed out to buy these DVDs.

Now I am NOT in any way saying they should be edited (although if they offered a death-free version via seemless branching that would definitely be appreaciated )

I am simply agreeing with Amy (not surprisingly!) about not wanting to see the moment of death. This is a problem I have with LOTS of nature documentaries so I am not singling out the TL Adventures.

Also, most of my favorite animals are the peaceful herbivore vegetarian type who are exactly the same ones they always show getting killed in nature documentaries.

As far as the idea of why not show the moment of death because it's part of the "circle of life" - Yes, I know all about the "circle of life" etc., but I don't have to see a poor creature shredded to death and eaten to know death exists - no more than I need to see graphic footage of a human dying to know that it happens!

I believe animals have souls, nobility, dignity, feelings, sentience, and feel pain just as profoundly as people do, and so I value them as much as people. In fact I am a practicing vegetarian and my views on animals are very similar to the Jain principle of ahimsa (although I didn't know this word existed until recently, and my views were already formed completely on my own, not due to a desire to conform to any existing religion or philosophy. I had interestingly arrived at the same spiritual and philosophical views on animals through personal inward reflection and being in touch with my own sensitive feelings on the matter.)

I don't even kill insects! If one gets in my house, I catch it and release it outside! And I try to avoid taking short cuts across the grass when a paved path will get me where I need to go, because it's harder to spot insects in the grass that one may accidentally step on.

And I've never fished or hunted, which I'm very proud of (and good for James for stopping fishing!)

Note that I am in no way saying that others who eat meat, hunt, fish, kill bugs, etc. are wrong and should be like me. These are simply the things that work for me, and make me feel at peace with my conscience and the world around me.

If I was on nature film crews, I couldn't just stand there and watch these animals die. It would be too upsetting. I'd have to try to save them! But if that was not permitted or too dangerous, I'd have to find another job!

So to sum up, seeing an animal die onscreen is just as shocking, distasteful, and upsetting to me as if it were a person. I'm quite sure that if there was footage of people getting killed by lions it would shock and be distasteful to a lot more people and be more controversial, and then people would get an idea of how I feel about seeing animals die on film.

It's bad enough that these poor and gentle souls are preyed upon and get brutally killed and eaten as part of the "circle of life", but at least they deserve the right to die with dignity and privacy, OFF-CAMERA!

If a death-free version via seamless branching were available, I would buy the DVDs, but until then, it's just not entertainment to me if I have to worry about seeing something that I don't want to.

We have a "bug box", so if we see a bug (well, I guess larger bugs...), we'll try and get it in the box and bring it outside (it's just a shoebox). I went fishing with my father and grandfather when I was younger, but we didn't catch anything. And I would never, ever hunt. I'm not a vegetarian, but Bobby recently said why don't we have Vegetarian Tuesdays? I said that when we have pasta for supper, or some other non-meat dish, then that's vegetarian, and we don't need to have the pressure of thinking, Oh no- it's Tuesday, we need to eat no meat! I do love animals, and sometimes I wonder why I'm not a vegetarian. I would consider it, but I don't know. I recently read "Fast Food Nation", and one statement in there (maybe a farmer or cattle-raiser said it?) said that the animals would just get eaten by other animals, anyway. I could never kill an animal to eat (if I were stranded on an island, I'd have to hope that there are coconuts and pineapples or something!), but knowing that they'd die anyway makes me almost feel a little better? Sometimes when I eat meat, I will think, oh, I'm eating an animal, but other times, like when I had a Taco Bell taco yesterday, I just think, mmm, yummy. I'm very torn.

There are certain animals I just couldn't eat: I don't think I could go to China, because I'd be afraid I'd eat a dog. Sorry if that's a stereotype, but in my Intercultural Communication class (or whatever it was called), the book said that in China (or maybe it was a country close to China?), they eat dogs. Not my thing at all. I'd probably have a hard time eating rabbit, too? Anything that is a housepet is not something I want in my tummy, thank you.

Yeah, rant over.

blackcauldron85 wrote: Sometimes when I eat meat, I will think, oh, I'm eating an animal, but other times, like when I had a Taco Bell taco yesterday, I just think, mmm, yummy. I'm very torn.

Just wanted to say that I hope my post didn't come across as "preachy" about the eating meat! I think a person can truly love animals and still eat meat. If the desire is ever there to go veggie, try to ease into it and see how it goes.

In my case, I first wanted to do it in my teens and 20's. 3 pop songs, and later, the movie Babe, had inspired me to try.

But, old habits are hard to break, and sometimes social situations and/or the old cravings came back, and I caved in. The mistake I made was saying "oh well, that didn't work" and going back to indulging regularly with each failed attempt. Where, what I should have done was allowed myself a few "exceptions" per month, year, etc.

Anyway, I was on again/off again for awhile, and then a few years ago, in my early 30's, as corny as this may sound, I had a very emotional "transcendental spriritual awakening" while visiting the cows in the petting area at the National Zoo in DC. If I remember correctly, there names were/are Tulip and Rosebud . Since that day, I 've been cold turkey off red meat with no stumbles, and completely eased out of chicken and seafood soon afterward (I never liked fish to begin with and Babe had already got me off pork). Whenever I get tempted, all I have to do is think of those cows from that day at the zoo . And the cravings get lesser and eventually more or less disappear after abstaining for awhile.

So, it took about 15-20 years from the time I first thought about going veggie in my teens to the time I can honestly say I am one. So, I guess what I'm getting at is, I hope I didn't make you feel bad about it. It takes time, and whether you eat meat or not, it is obvious that you care very much about animals, and that's a good thing!

Just wanted to say that I hope my post didn't come across as "preachy" about the eating meat!

Don't worry, you didn't sound preachy and besides you couldn't sound any more so than I probably did going on about environmental issues in the Earth thread.

On a related note, there's two new documentary films out about how we get our food -

1) The End of the Line (http://endoftheline.com/) - about overfishing of the oceans

2) Food, Inc. (http://www.foodincmovie.com/) - about factory farming, genetically modified proteins, fruits, and vegetables and more

I think the human capacity for reason and empathy (traits not unique to our species, imho) makes it difficult for many of us to watch animals suffer or die in nature films even if we think of it as "the circle of life". But that same intelligence and awareness means that "feeling bad" isn't enough when it comes to how other sentient, emotional creatures are treated in our factory farms and slaughterhouses, issues that are often overlooked while we think about the poor wildebeest being attacked by the crocodile.

I agree- you didn't sound preachy at all!

I appreciate the honesty and subtlety here. It's not often you see this on a message board. I also tend to never harm an animal if I can avoid it. And usually one can avoid it, if one tries! There's no need to cause harm.

I can see how one refuses to look upon an animal as "lesser".

Lately I am in conflict with my family because I treat my 3-year old dog "too sensitive" and "human" for their taste, and I always worry about him.

I can't help it, he's a big, friendly white buddy of mine and so loyal to me, like a real friend!

He looks so happy and appreciative when I spend time with him. And that in turn makes me feel good. If I would come up short towards him, less than he would expect, I would feel very guilty.

He loves wooden branches and balls and when he got his toe amputated, I had to disinfect and bandage him for 2 months every day, because he wouldn't leave it alone. He had other medical problems as well.

You couldn't imagine yourself a sweeter dog. But strange as it may seem, some people dislike dogs even when they're nothing but sweet.

That process of taking care of him started a basis of trust and mutual respect, that perhaps looks strange to an outsider.

Here are some pictures of him. His name is Racky:

Aww, he is so cute!!! Some people don't like any dogs due to previous experiences with a bad dog. My brother was attacked by a dog when he was a kid, and he's never been comfortable around dogs since. He hasn't met my dogs, since he lives in another country, but I'd like to think that he'd like them!

Calamity 23 wrote: I think the human capacity for reason and empathy (traits not unique to our species, imho)

I completely agree with the part in parenthesis!

makes it difficult for many of us to watch animals suffer or die in nature films even if we think of it as "the circle of life". But that same intelligence and awareness means that "feeling bad" isn't enough when it comes to how other sentient, emotional creatures are treated in our factory farms and slaughterhouses, issues that are often overlooked while we think about the poor wildebeest being attacked by the crocodile.

I agree. What happens in those places is horrific and sickening. It's yet another thing that inspires me to not support those places by not consuming their "products"!

james2774 wrote:
I appreciate the honesty and subtlety here. It's not often you see this on a message board

Thanks

That process of taking care of him started a basis of trust and mutual respect, that perhaps looks strange to an outsider.

Here are some pictures of him. His name is Racky:

Thanks for sharing those pictures. He's beautiful! Keep up the great work with Racky!

Thank you both very much!

There's a place in Belgium I take him regularly (today also) where he can roam free for miles and miles, without interruption. The picture where he's enjoying his branch is from that place. Today he went after a rabbit after picking up on its sent, and I went after him worrying again, but the rabbit must have jumped in its hole in time!

The "vest" you see him wearing in another picture is to prevent him from drowning, because he likes to go for far swims.. that's another place (a big lake) I go to. Then he suddenly realizes he is far from "shore" and that's when I always worry as he gets out of breath, so I bought him this red thing that keeps him afloat and now all is safe.

The girls in the pictures are my nieces, their little chiouaoua dog is also in one of the pictures, she's bossy over Racky!

Great pics! It's awesome that Racky has miles and miles of beautiful wide open spaces to explore and swim. It looks like he has a lot of fun!

Thanks!

It wasn't always like this. I bought him when he was 7 weeks old and he could fit in my two hands.

I was living in an appartment at the time and had to carry him up and down the stairs several times a day, two flights of stairs, to take walks with him in the busy city. Luckily those days are over.

Can someone please tell me which discs have the error so I can check mine and return the correct ones? Thanks.

Also, is it just as effective to e-mail customer service or call them?

"Prowlers of the Everglades" (Disc 1, Volume 1 - Wonders of the World)
"Secrets of Life" (Disc 1, Volume 4 - Nature's Mysteries)

Hope that helps!

albert

I missed out on the True Life Adventures when they were in stores. Are they all OOP now, or are some still available?

Looks like Volume 1 may be OOP as it's selling on Amazon for $69.

Barbossa wrote: I missed out on the True Life Adventures when they were in stores. Are they all OOP now, or are some still available?

Looks like Volume 1 may be OOP as it's selling on Amazon for $69.

They're just like an old wave of Treasures. They're all out of print but some can be had easier than others. What you're not likely to find is any of them still sitting on store shelves.

im so glad they released these on dvd. dad had taped them off the tv some 30 or more years ago. used to love watching them with him. thanks to evil bay, i was able to buy a full set for quite cheap and gave them to dad for xmas last year. was the best gift i could have given him too.

are the new disneynature movies in the same league as TLA, as i would like to get him those as well.