DVDizzy Forum

It needs be pointed out that some people love and strive for mediocre copies of already great things.

I'm sorry Jens, I really respect your opinions (even though I don't always agree with them), but saying Luke had a bad day because he didn't like a film the same way as you did is just... well, absurd. It seems as if you are always trying to put DisneyToons Studio in a good light, regardless of the quality of the products and of what people think. Were this a Feature Animation film I don't think you would be posting the same things.

I don't want to start an argument here or anything, neither am I atacking you, but it's just what I think.

By the way, great review, Luke! Very complete, detailed and sincere as always.

Jens wrote:Anyway... I am not saying that Tarzan II is a masterpiece, but it is certainly not a bad sequel. It is really worth watching if you are open for it. If you're not, you will probably -just like Luke- end up watching the whole movie with an "Feature Animation eye" (and that's not the way you should watch any of the sequels, IMO).

I've said this in the past and I'll say it again. I shouldn't lower my standard of a good animated movie just because Disney decided to do it cheaply. I come with certain expectations and I expect Disney to reach those expectations. As a buying consumer I should never have to compromise for second rate features. Anyway, I'm not even going to rent this (a decision that was made before this great review ). Ever since Lion King 1 1/2 I won't watch any Disney sequel because it might ruin the original's "magic".

What I think Jens is trying to say in his comments about Tarzan II is that, people often look at eth sequels with the same eye they use to look at the WDFA stuff. While this is only natural, I think Jens' point is that instead of just dismissing Tarzan II we should look at it with the progress of Disney Tonn Studios, which I agree with (even though I am not supporter of sequels).

I believe that Jens' point is that Disney Toon Studios are making serious progress! I am look at the mediocre animation of The Hunchback of Notre Dame II, the abomination of animation that was Belle's Magical World and the off model atrocity that Tarzan and Jane. Whereas today the animation, alhtough not quite at the stage, technical brilliance and perfection where WDFA left off, is continously improving. And it won't be long before it is at the brillance. The stories are continously improving too!

Also, and I remind you again that I am not a supporter of the sequels, I think it is worth while noting that I am very impressed with what Disney Toon Studios do with what they've got (So Dear to My Heart reference intended ). When you consider that the budget for an animated film at Disney like Brother Bear and Home on the Range is in the region of $100,000,000 - $120,000,000 and then consider that these DTVs are made on a budget of $20,000,000 I think if you reconsider it, actually on such a small budget, tarzan II is actually bloody impressive. I mean some of the animation will be off, but some of it is good too. Take a look at the cap in Luke's review of Kala, good isn't it!

One more thing I think more should be aware of. The stories for the sequels are usually penned in the States and then sent to Disney Toon Studios to do the animation, obviously change will be made by DTS during the animation process, but they pretty much have no say in what the actual story is.

I think the reason why we should NOt dismiss Disney Toon Studios, notice how I say Disney Toon Studios and not the sequels is because if 2D animation is to make a comeback at Disney, This is pretty much the place it will come from. If 2D features are to return to the box office this is the place where they should be made.

Like I said when you consider that these films were made on such a small budget, imagine what Toon Studios could do with an equal budget to what WDFA had. Hey even $50,000,000 and I bet they could knock us silly!

Like I say, if you don't support sequels, that fine dismiss them if you wish, I also do not think sequels should be made, but I encourage you to not dismiss the important steps Disney Toon Studios are making.

It's heartbreaking to say but behind Studio Ghibli, Disney Toon Studios are the best 2D animation studio remaining and if the progress continues the way it has, the could easily become THE best. 2D thetrical feature animation at Disney is not dead, once the "CGI mania" has died down a bit, I am sure they will return, and like I say our eyes should be towards Australia. So please, hate the idea of sequels if you must (I do), but at least value the hard work and progress of the Disney Toon Studios studio and see this progress as an exciting step which could lead to all of our dreams coming true and Disney producing another traditionally animated feature film.

I will be getting this movie, however only because it comes in a set with the Tarzan 2 disc SE and Tarzan II together.

Tarzan SE alone is £15.99 and the Tarzan/Tarzan II boxset is £17.99, so for the sake of £2 I may as well give it a chance. However if it was not available as a set and I had to pay the full RRP, I'm not so sure I would be getting Tarzan II.

ichabod wrote:So please, hate the idea of sequels if you must (I do), but at least value the hard work and progress of the Disney Toon Studios studio and see this progress as an exciting step which could lead to all of our dreams coming true and Disney producing another traditionally animated feature film.

I don't think anyone deny's the studio's hard work put into this. But as Luke stated, every movie has a team of hard working people but it doesn't always turn out for the best.

I too am awaiting the day ToonStudios will be given a proper budget and a chance of their own to create the story from scratch. But until then, I will not be supporting (buying) the idea of a cheap sequel.

Luke wrote:Like I said in the review, I watched it twice and that was over a 3-day period, so it'd have to be three bad days. And they weren't, but that wouldn't make a difference anyway.

and

Joe Carioca wrote:saying Luke had a bad day because he didn't like a film the same way as you did is just... well, absurd.

Why absurd? If you have a bad day this effects everything you do... You may not know it at the time, but it does. But it wasn't meant that seriously as you guys see it. It was just a way of telling him that I don't agree

Luke wrote:Nonetheless, I'd rather have people pass on Tarzan II and not be disappointed than to make it sound better than I think it is and have them be disappointed in my skills as a reviewer. Sure, it's just my opinion but don't dismiss it because it's different from yours.

That's just the thing I don't like... How do you have the right to say to people to not buy a DVD just because YOUR "humble" opinion is negative towards it? I really do not see why probably 100's (or more) people that read your review could even have the idea of NOT buying the movie based on 1 sole opinion? I know a lot of people that don't like The Lion King for example, but do they go telling everyone they shouldn't buy it? No! Because there are a lot of people that do like The Lion King. The reasons of not liking a movie could be a lot of different things... It could be that you are not emotionally connected with it (A lot of movies have this) or just connected with the characters in any way. It could be that you were watching the movie in bad conditions (like I said earlier, by having a bad day or watching it like you watch a WDFA feature movie). It could be a lot of things! Just don't forget that you are a big factor in people's lives on to buy or not to buy a DVD, and I think it's just wrong to plain out say that they shouldn't buy the movie (even IF the majority of people that haven't even seen it agree with you).

Joe Carioca wrote:It seems as if you are always trying to put DisneyToons Studio in a good light, regardless of the quality of the products and of what people think. Were this a Feature Animation film I don't think you would be posting the same things.

Like I said before, I totally do not accept everything that the DisneyToon Studios do. However, I have learned to relativise the movies they come up with and watch them on a less critical note. I can't explain how I do it, but I just turn on (or rather turn off) something to make me see the real beauty of the sequels. I do see some of the things Luke pointed out, but I don't spend a lot of attention nitpicking on them. I just bite my teeth and continue to watch with joy as the next (and better) scene rolls by. Let's say I just ignore most of the bad stuff and the result is a good and emotional movie (yes, Tarzan II). Btw, have you seen Tarzan II yet Matheus?

DisneyFan 2000 wrote:I've said this in the past and I'll say it again. I shouldn't lower my standard of a good animated movie just because Disney decided to do it cheaply. I come with certain expectations and I expect Disney to reach those expectations. As a buying consumer I should never have to compromise for second rate features.

I totally respect your opinion... It is your right to buy or not buy a DVD when they are released. But the thing is... How will you ever know it's not of your "standard" when you never watched it? You may end up liking (or even loving) the movie! There's only a small chance, I know... But again, don't let 1 opinion dominate your brain thinking the movie is all bad.


And furthermore, I agree with everything ichabod said

A review is opnion who does the review? And Luke didn't like so I respect that, when I see the movie I will have my own opinion, what i don't like is that other to make a opinion for me

In spite of its title, Tarzan II is not a continuation in spirit or story of Disney's winning original film. Instead, it's a "harmless", marketable, youth-oriented tale that fails to inspire or challenge in any of the ways that Tarzan did six summers ago.

Great Review!

Your review was excellent Luke, your professionalism (watching this dtv twince then the first movie to make your feelings sure) is remarkable!

Jens: you are really pathetic, you said how come Luke can tell his readers NOT to buy this crap? Wake up, that's the critic 's job, you can disagree but not blame Luke because he doesn't like this "movie" and I will take his advice (i'll rent it to make my own opinion just like the previous sequels you praised and i highly disliked , no way i'll buy those -quels).
You're free to force yourself to like DTS movies just because it's Disney and you forgave them to lower their standards, i and many others Disney and Animation fans don't...

Jens wrote:

DisneyFan 2000 wrote:I've said this in the past and I'll say it again. I shouldn't lower my standard of a good animated movie just because Disney decided to do it cheaply. I come with certain expectations and I expect Disney to reach those expectations. As a buying consumer I should never have to compromise for second rate features.

I totally respect your opinion... It is your right to buy or not buy a DVD when they are released. But the thing is... How will you ever know it's not of your "standard" when you never watched it? You may end up liking (or even loving) the movie! There's only a small chance, I know... But again, don't let 1 opinion dominate your brain thinking the movie is all bad.

Well, I'm actually passing on this one because it takes place in the middle of a beloved movie and thus has a chance of changing my perspective of events like in The Lion King 3. I really didn't like the path it took. For the same reason I'm avoiding Pocahontas II. I like the way it ended with a tragic love affair! I don't avoid sequels just because they are one. I have my reasons.

well, altough I rather want that disney would make sequall like Toy Story 2 quallity I think I had the luck that i've only seen the good cheapqualls.
Alright I was dissapointed after the first time I saw the lionking 2, for one reason i don't know was that I wasn't dissappointed at the time with the 2 alladin sequalls.
And altough it wasn't perfect I really liked the lionking 1 1/2. I think the worst cheapquall I have seen was mulan 2.
But over the years Toondisney has become much better. There animation begins to come close to WDFA animation of the original movies, and that with lower budgets, I would like to know what they can do if they may make a cinema movie with a budget of one.
But over Tarzan 2, hmmm i just don't like midquells in that form and the way they are calling it Tarzan 2, this isn't just more than a Tarzan 1 1/2.

I won't be buying 'Tarzan II' when it comes out... okay I will but it's not for me. I won't even want to watch it until I buy the first.

I thought the review is great and I never base buying movies on a single review. I mean I'm bad with money and judgement but not that bad. What people should do (although I don't see happening much) is read a variety of reviews if they are not sure. Sounds simple but most don't take the time. Anyways if you see a bunch of negative reviews then you have to just think, "Well maybe this movie isn't so great after all?"
You'll never know until you see it but it'll work better as a rental. (or borrow it off a friend who bought it!)

Jens wrote:That's just the thing I don't like... How do you have the right to say to people to not buy a DVD just because YOUR "humble" opinion is negative towards it? I really do not see why probably 100's (or more) people that read your review could even have the idea of NOT buying the movie based on 1 sole opinion?

Thousands of people will read the review and they are entirely free to come up with their own conclusions. I never outright state not to buy it. That's not my call. Having seen the movie twice, would I buy a copy for someone else? No. There's so many better films out there, even in the direct-to-video realm.

But I think I've achieved the primary purpose of a review: I've informed readers what the movie is about, discussing it visually, thematically, and in comparison to other DTV sequels and the original <i>Tarzan</i>. I've also pointed out the number of ways the film doesn't work for me. If I've piqued someone's interest in it, and they decide to rent or buy it, so be it. If I've discouraged someone from seeing it in the near-future, so be it as well. My opinion is no less well-informed just because I didn't think the movie was good like you.

Thanks all for the compliments and for the criticisms. Both help me in letting me know that the work that goes into them isn't for nothing.

You'r absolutely right, Ultimate Disney is NOT a publicity space for Disney products, negative critics aren't out of place, whatever Jens may think! Disney can come up with BAD things and it is important that people like Luke and others websites points those out! That's definitely better than the boring an always praising comments from others...

Sigh.

I basically decided to keep my nose out of this thread until I'd finished writing my own review. It got posted today; you can find the link to it in my siggy.

And don't think for a second that my review is on the positive side just because it was written for Jens' site, Disney Database. The opinions I give are purely my own.

Luke, I'm sorry, but despite some positive points it feels you were bound and determined to look at the film in a negative light from the very start, especially when we see this in your opening:

The first and most transparent move that Tarzan II makes to appease young children and only young children is to have its title character be one of them.

This is not the only Disney film to star a young character.

And of course you are entitled to your opinion, and as a reviewer you have the responsibility to be honest. Look, I'm not trying to attack your opinions, all I'm saying is that I don't agree.

I don't think the "fake-out" at the beginning is a let-down, I think it's key to setting up the fact that Tarzan's afraid of endangering his family.

I'll be the first to admit that this is far from a perfect film, but I found it far more satisfying than some of the Disney classics, like, say. . . the Aristocats. But maybe I'm making an unecessary and unfavorable comparison and should be looking solely at the film itself. I think the good outweighs the bad and that's it's well worth looking into. But if you have a negative image of it from the start like I think most people do here, of course you're gonna pick it apart. I hope that people can look into it with an open mind and not be so eager to tear it down just because it's a Disney sequel.

What makes the film for me is the bonding of two characters with a mutual understanding: they were both forced into being alone because they felt like a burden. I think that subject is easy to relate to and is quite poignant.

Great review Luke. I love your screencaps, that's my favorite part of your reviews. ^_^

I've been reading from a variety of pages and sites (Jim Hill now being one of them) that Tarzan is actually very good indeed. I don't think I'll bother buying it, since I'm getting L&S2 instead, but the animation is by far the CLEANIEST,BRIGHTEST and most FLUID animation DisneyToon has been out (with the likes of Pooh's Heffalump and Lion King 1 1/2).

Kenai wrote:I've been reading from a variety of pages and sites (Jim Hill now being one of them) that Tarzan is actually very good indeed.

Ah, thank you. I'm not the only one who thinks so.

I have seen it, animation is good, but the story is very weak by mine opinion.

Keep in mind that renting is always an option.

Jens wrote:

Luke wrote:Like I said in the review, I watched it twice and that was over a 3-day period, so it'd have to be three bad days. And they weren't, but that wouldn't make a difference anyway.

and

Joe Carioca wrote:saying Luke had a bad day because he didn't like a film the same way as you did is just... well, absurd.

Why absurd? If you have a bad day this effects everything you do... You may not know it at the time, but it does. But it wasn't meant that seriously as you guys see it. It was just a way of telling him that I don't agree

Luke wrote:Nonetheless, I'd rather have people pass on Tarzan II and not be disappointed than to make it sound better than I think it is and have them be disappointed in my skills as a reviewer. Sure, it's just my opinion but don't dismiss it because it's different from yours.

That's just the thing I don't like... How do you have the right to say to people to not buy a DVD just because YOUR "humble" opinion is negative towards it? I really do not see why probably 100's (or more) people that read your review could even have the idea of NOT buying the movie based on 1 sole opinion? I know a lot of people that don't like The Lion King for example, but do they go telling everyone they shouldn't buy it? No! Because there are a lot of people that do like The Lion King. The reasons of not liking a movie could be a lot of different things... It could be that you are not emotionally connected with it (A lot of movies have this) or just connected with the characters in any way. It could be that you were watching the movie in bad conditions (like I said earlier, by having a bad day or watching it like you watch a WDFA feature movie). It could be a lot of things! Just don't forget that you are a big factor in people's lives on to buy or not to buy a DVD, and I think it's just wrong to plain out say that they shouldn't buy the movie (even IF the majority of people that haven't even seen it agree with you).

Joe Carioca wrote:It seems as if you are always trying to put DisneyToons Studio in a good light, regardless of the quality of the products and of what people think. Were this a Feature Animation film I don't think you would be posting the same things.

Like I said before, I totally do not accept everything that the DisneyToon Studios do. However, I have learned to relativise the movies they come up with and watch them on a less critical note. I can't explain how I do it, but I just turn on (or rather turn off) something to make me see the real beauty of the sequels. I do see some of the things Luke pointed out, but I don't spend a lot of attention nitpicking on them. I just bite my teeth and continue to watch with joy as the next (and better) scene rolls by. Let's say I just ignore most of the bad stuff and the result is a good and emotional movie (yes, Tarzan II). Btw, have you seen Tarzan II yet Matheus?

DisneyFan 2000 wrote:I've said this in the past and I'll say it again. I shouldn't lower my standard of a good animated movie just because Disney decided to do it cheaply. I come with certain expectations and I expect Disney to reach those expectations. As a buying consumer I should never have to compromise for second rate features.

I totally respect your opinion... It is your right to buy or not buy a DVD when they are released. But the thing is... How will you ever know it's not of your "standard" when you never watched it? You may end up liking (or even loving) the movie! There's only a small chance, I know... But again, don't let 1 opinion dominate your brain thinking the movie is all bad.


And furthermore, I agree with everything ichabod said

well, nt all read this before buying something.
I think someone is going to be mad at me, but I don´t read almost any review.
The ones that I had read before are quite good an I apreciatte the effort that Luke put on them,but is your at the end who buy or not the DVDs

Well, if you're gonna read a review and base a purchase off of that, you might be missing out or you might be wasting your money since everyone obviously has different opinions.

Personally, I only tend to make blind purchases over more obscure titles that I can't find at a typal rental store, so I'm an avid reader of those reviews. Anyway, I think it's obvious that the more reviews you read, the more informed you'll be.

As for something like the upcoming Cinderella, do I really need to read the review? Nah, I know I'll be buying it anyway. Still, it's nice to read the review in the anticipation of an upcoming title and see what someone else's opinions are.

And with that being said, read mine, read mine! Yeah, I know, shameless plug, but what can ya do? Once again, the link is in my siggy. . . you can't miss it. . .