DVDizzy Forum

And again, let me point to Phineas and Ferb:

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Traditional animation and hey, look who the production company is! It's also a great show. The idea that hand-drawn animation of any kind is dead at Disney is absurd.

Even DreamWorks Animation is employing traditional techniques, as anybody who has seen Kung Fu Panda 2 can attest to.

Dear Disney Enthusiasts,

XXX!

Dear Disney Enthusiasts,

XXX!

estefan wrote:And again, let me point to Phineas and Ferb:

Traditional animation and hey, look who the production company is! It's also a great show. The idea that hand-drawn animation of any kind is dead at Disney is absurd.

Whether or not they have one cheaply produced TV show on the Disney Channel is not proof that they haven’t given up on the theatrically-released 2D animated film.

Expecting them to heavily invest in 2D for their films anytime soon is only hopeful wishing. Oh, and whoever mentioned Winnie the Pooh--that film is practically DOA. I'm sure even Disney realizes that, which is why it was so cheaply produced and scarcely advertised.

Disney's Divinity wrote:Expecting them to heavily invest in 2D for their films anytime soon is only hopeful wishing. Oh, and whoever mentioned Winnie the Pooh--that film is practically DOA. I'm sure even Disney realizes that, which is why it was so cheaply produced and scarcely advertised.

But the fact that it was low-budget should be a good thing. Animated features shouldn't have to cost 70 billion dollars to make.

DisneyJedi wrote:Look, I'm sorry. A lot of crap has been going on in my life lately.

My dad had to go through surgery and get the tips of his fingers cut off when he got them caught in a roller at his job, a family friend of mine had a seizure on the bus, and my grandmother's in the hospital and her days could be numbered, even if I'm praying long and hard that she'll be all right. And this news about Snow Queen being canceled was kind of, for me, the straw that broke the camel's back.

Seriously, my life outside the Internet has been pretty miserable lately, and I've unwillingly been taking it out on my life here.

Awwwww I'm sorry. I'll pray for them.

I wanted to say, DisneyJedi, that you have not deserved any of the mean things people have said to you or the attacks they laid on you for anything you have said. You haven't really said anything wrong, including even wishing harm on Eisner or anyone else, because I know you don't really mean it, you're just very mad and upset. I feel emotional about this too, it certainly is a big deal, and more people should realize that.

I totally agree with you that Disney should keep traditional animation. Disney should stay their traditional selves, and of course, that meant Rapunzel being a traditional fairy tale...but Disney is...well...it really sucks, I think it's terrible, but Disney is just not being the same anymore, they're messing up, they are being un-Disney in some things. But, occasionally, things that feel true Disney pop up, like some of Tangled felt somewhat Disney. And maybe someday the Snow Queen or a traditional animated feature will happen, and then another time another one will happen, and so on. Disney things will keep happening somehow.

Disneyjedi, your family are in my thoughts and I'm sorry if I sounded mean earlier, but frankly it doesnt mean that you can wish death on other people and get away with it. I'm sure you didnt mean that.

DisneyDuster wrote:I wanted to say, DisneyJedi, that you have not deserved any of the mean things people have said to you or the attacks they laid on you for anything you have said.

Wishing death on someone because you don't like something that's going on at Disney is unecessary and people will always take issue with that. Seeing as the individual in question did very nearly die while at Disney, I thought saying such a thing was tasteless and inappropriate.

I'm not even going to get into the "Tangled is un-Disney" debate; the term broken record springs to mind.

DisneyAnimation88 wrote:

DisneyDuster wrote:I wanted to say, DisneyJedi, that you have not deserved any of the mean things people have said to you or the attacks they laid on you for anything you have said.

Wishing death on someone because you don't like something that's going on at Disney is unecessary and people will always take issue with that. Seeing as the individual in question did very nearly die while at Disney, I thought saying such a thing was tasteless and inappropriate.

Agreed.

Disney Jedi, I'm sorry to hear about such bad news in your non-virtual life. I think most people here find it a shame that wider audiences don't give two figs about hand-drawn animation, and I agree that a lot of people sometimes do overrate Pixar (that's not to say I don't like Pixar, because I do like most of their films a lot). Having said that, I think it would be best to try and control your temper. Wishing death upon someone, whether you mean it or not, is a serious thing, and as somebody who has had a lot of personal problems these past few months, you should know it. Sure, Eisner did go a bit crazy and greedy after a while, but it wasn't as though he was Hitler. Equally, casually accusing somebody of provoking another person's terminal illness (as with John Lasseter/Randy Newman and Roy Disney in the Oscars discussion a few months ago) is quite sickening. In essence, a lot of people do share your opinions, but they don't become obsessive about it and start making accusations or casually throwing hate language.

And as for Andreas Deja...well, I always felt that traditionally animated films at Disney would come out at a slower rate than CG films. There could indeed be another 2D project in the works, but it's in too early or fragile a stage of development to be fully greenlit (in fact, perhaps they want to see how The Lion King in 3D fares, to see how audiences react to seeing traditional animation in 3D?). I'm sure that Deja would be back in that case. If not, then I hope he does well on his own.

I think the situation with DisneyJedi can stand as a reminder to us <i>all</i> to keep general social conventions in mind when posting on this forum. I know people feel empowered by the anonymity of sharing thoughts online BUT you should not be posting things that you would not say in a normal conversation. I'm sorry, DisneyJedi, if you are having a tough time with real life. I hope things turn up for you. Still, I need you to think carefully before you hit the "submit" button. Do you really want to be portrayed as someone who would wish death on another human being?

Disney's Divinity wrote:Whether or not they have one cheaply produced TV show on the Disney Channel is not proof that they haven’t given up on the theatrically-released 2D animated film.

The thing is Jedi was reacting as if there wasn't ANY hand-drawn animation going on at Disney, when Phineas and Ferb pretty much disproves that.

And if feature hand-drawn animation is truly dead, they can pull a Don Bluth and open their own studio. Maybe they will get backing from a certain bearded man after one film.

estefan wrote:And again, let me point to Phineas and Ferb:

Traditional animation and hey, look who the production company is! It's also a great show. The idea that hand-drawn animation of any kind is dead at Disney is absurd.

No, it isn't. It's a boring and childish show with lazy, ugly, rushed, cheap animation. And when we say "hand-drawn animation is dead at Disney", you know very well we're talking about feature films and not tv shows drawn by a factory in Japan.

DisneyJedi wrote:No, I'm not wishing death on a man because I'm not getting my way. I'm wishing death on the jerk because it's his fault that the company was left in ruin AND the fact that they only care about making money, instead of making quality films like they used to.

That's just life, Im sure there were fans of silly symphonies back in the 40s that got upset when Walt stopped production but he had to. 2D animation has pretty much maxed out its potential, I don't think there will ever be a 2d film in theaters ever again.

^Dude, don't talk like that. That's like saying we'll never see another stop-motion film again.

Yeah, it's not really a great analogy. But I don't see any of you coming up with anything better. XP

DisneyJedi wrote:^Dude, don't talk like that. That's like saying we'll never see another stop-motion film again.

Yeah, it's not really a great analogy. But I don't see any of you coming up with anything better. XP

I'd say that's a pretty good analogy. For both mediums, I don't think that either will ever be the "mainstream" again, but both will be more unique, special... just like we see a stop motion film every few years, I think we will see a new hand drawn film every few years. Whether it's done by Disney, Pixar, Dreamworks, Ghibli, or more independent stuff like Sylvain Chomet or Secret of Kells. And I think that's the way it should be.

Actually, after the recent success of Coraline, stop-motion animation is far more popular as a medium than hand-drawn animation in the West. Currently, there are in development or production the following stop-motion animated films:

Aardman's The Pirates! Band of Misfits, The Cat Burglars, Shaun the Sheep: The Movie and an untitled Nick Park project.

Disney's Frankenweenie

Laika's ParaNorman as well as another untitled project in the works scheduled for a 2014 release.

Henry Selick's Shademaker--his new-found studio 'Cinderbiter' is dedicated in exclusively producing stop-motion animation.

Dave Borthwick's Grass Roots.

All of these are scheduled for a U.S. release.

How many hand-drawn features which are in development or production are scheduled for a U.S theatrical release? Zero. (not counting Ghibli films or other anime).

Only one hand-drawn feature, the French A Cat in Paris, which has already been released overseas, is scheduled for U.S. distribution.

Tomm Moore's The Song of the Sea which is in development has yet to reach a deal for U.S. distribution. It probably will though because of the success of The Secret of Kells.

^Admittedly, if you count Dreamworks' cross-medium movie "Me and My Shadow", Hand-drawn is not dead in the US quite yet.

Sotiris wrote:

Super Aurora wrote:Nah, it could be done. Volumes of hair can be done well in 2D. It just that Disney felt it would be a lot more work. Computers just make everything easier.

I truly think that if Tangled were hand-drawn animated, it would have been far more amazing. Just look at those designs, sketches and poses in the 'Art of' book. They just do not translate as well in CG.

Regarding the hair, it would be far easier to animate them in 2D. Look at some Disney heroines with long and rich hair like Ariel, Pocahontas or Esmeralda. They look great. Obviously they don't have as long hair as Rapunzel but they could still have made it work pretty nicely.

It is CG hair that is really difficult to manage. The issues they had with CG hair were emphasised in nearly all of the featurettes and videos they had released to promote the film. But of course they had to work out all of the issues and make the hair work in CG since this was a CG movie.

Ugh, why did you have to remind me of that book? Every time I open it I die a little inside. For all the things "Tangled" did right (and there have been quite a few), the visuals always felt terribly unnatural to me. There's a sense of awkwardness in certain shots and I can't help but feel sad that such beautiful preproduction art was wasted when translated to CGI. Filmmakers' BS excuse of 'difficulties in animating hair being one of the main reasons for the ultimate choice of the medium' did not help either. And fanboy claims that supposed magnificence of the lanterns scene could not have been achieved in traditional animation were just a cherry on top.

Mooky wrote:And fanboy claims that supposed magnificence of the lanterns scene could not have been achieved in traditional animation were just a cherry on top.

That's not a good reason because the lantern sequence could have been kept in CG even if the rest of the movie was hand-drawn. Disney has integrated CG elements in their past hand-drawn films quite successfully.