DVDizzy Forum

yeah, it has definitely gotten more hostile, but mostly in the discussions that expand beyond entertainment(Song of the South, politics, religion) or gets too nitpicky(I wont even go there).

I think we should take non-restrictive measures towards preventing such behavior. Signals, like happy pictures, or simply stepping in to say "that's enough". mods shouldnt have to be the only ones to stop a breakout with a warning. Rather, all members should take responsible action.

In the case of Lazario vs Goliath, wemay need something more drastic.....like a court(minus punishments). we are a community here, after all. an online one, at least.

Lazario wrote:Yeah

It means if you're (you as in generally speaking) going to take a stand against something, don't stoop to the level of those you're taking a stand against. (Since the civil rights movement is what's addressed in the signature I'll use that as an example). Imagine if Dr. King and his followers stooped to the level of those he opposed and resorted to doing the same things they did against them (violence, etc). Their cause would have gained far less sympathy and support. Part of what gained support for them was the footage of them being attacked and hoses and dogs being set on them. Imagine if what the public saw was the other way around. How do you think people and the government would have saw the movement? I personally believe such a thing would have hurt the movement.

Basically it just means don't stoop to the level of those you're opposing. Like he said, "We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline". Just because the opposing person may be disrespectful and undignified doesn't mean you should be that way back. If anything it hurts your cause.

A lot for a short signature huh?

Oh lord. Somebody's pointed out that the emperor has no clothes on. And I'm gonna have to join in.

The main reason why I joined this forum was to be able to discuss Disney, animation and the like. In my real life, I don't really have much chance to do so with friends or family, and the fact that I could talk about such things in a reasonably intelligent and friendly atmosphere was a relief. Sure, there have been threats to the level of intellectually engaging things (2007 on the forum with a whole load of post-TLM Platinum fluff posters and less Disney DVDs being released), as well as a few troubling things (the odd inevitable personal attack, locking and banning, Secret Santa deadbeats), but things have come out the other end fine. In fact, there have been a great deal of reasonably stimulating topics popping up in the past few months, and I've posted here more often than I have in a very long while (though more time to do so has helped ).

However, I'm beginning to get concerned as well about hostility on this forum. I don't expect everybody to make strong friendships (we are complete strangers geographically isolated from one another), and likewise I don't think it's necessary to become enemies with people we'll never meet in person. So many threads go on forever as types of battlegrounds, or as means of people repeating their opinions in excess. As an example, the Song of the South thread was finally locked because of people arguing in excess, but before that the same three or four members were reposting pretty much the same things over and over again constantly, or dissecting people's opinions beyond silliness. Before that, we had constant arguments about the colours in a certain film about a pretty girl and an ugly monster, and I don't want to start on how the Polls and Games forum has too many "Hurt or Heal" threads. Then there are some great members who have posted less than they should, or have become so overly argumentative that they aren't as fun as they used to be. The number of threads that have gotten off topic lately is annoying; anything in Disney Discussion seems to get bombarded by people arguing over whether XYZ-a-film has the "Disney essence" (stupid buzz word).

What am I trying to say? People need to just calm down and behave themselves a bit. We don't need topics being derailed left right and centre, nor do we need the same people spouting out what they wrote two hours ago again. Rivalries between people who will never meet in real life need to stop, and we don't need that many discussions on religion or politics, two sure-fire ways to cause virtual bloodshed. Let's hope that 2011 is a good one as far as UD is concerned, as I don't want to fall out of posting regularly like I did around 2007/8.

It's sad that people coming to this forum for a break from stressful things going on in life and the forum's not much of a pick-me-up for them.

enigmawing wrote:Instead of seeing the informative, friendly, goofy posts I used to enjoy, I see a lot of bickering that no amount of positive energy can lighten up. In fact, it seems that any attempts made to lighten things up is only met with further hostility.

I know. But I think the two of us might have milk-budded some threads to death, too. Maybe we need to come up with more funny schticks? Still, can't beat a milk bud!

Wondy wrote:The main reason why I joined this forum was to be able to discuss Disney, animation and the like.

And bump up old threads with one-liners. ;P I think it's hilarious that I initially used to hate seeing your name on UD and thankfully have since grown to love it.

Wondy wrote:In my real life, I don't really have much chance to do so with friends or family, and the fact that I could talk about such things in a reasonably intelligent and friendly atmosphere was a relief.

Same here. I mean, while we are a Disney family (immediate and extended), we never sit down at a table and discuss the finer points of Film ABC or Song 123 the way that we used to here. Discussions on UD used to be discussions, not competitions or one-upmanships or "I'm right, you're wrong, shut up and accept it."

Wondy wrote:In fact, there have been a great deal of reasonably stimulating topics popping up in the past few months, and I've posted here more often than I have in a very long while (though more time to do so has helped ).

I agree that there have been some topics that have become interesting, but I ultimately end up not saying much in most because of the way it gradually descends into us-or-them me-vs-you opinion-vs-fact-vs-delusion and I start wondering why I should bother posting what I want to say if that's what it will receive.

And I haven't even mentioned my frustrations about the stupid Blu vs. DVD arguments. If you have Blu, you're a rich elitist. If you have DVD, you're a po' boy living in the past. Just shut up, the both of you and buy what you want without having to tell other people how to spend their money.

Wondy wrote:and I don't want to start on how the Polls and Games forum has too many "Hurt or Heal" threads.

I've done my best to rectify that (limiting the number of games, standardizing the rules so that every game is the same, not allowing the same members to keep starting games without letting others do so, etc.). But sometimes I wish that HoH was just banned from Polls and Games forever. Still, at least they're not as useless and bandwidth-wasting as "Last One to Post... Wins!" I really want a mod to close that thread simply to be able to say, "Closing this thread. Haha, I win."

Wondy wrote:"Disney essence" (stupid buzz word).

Disney has been essenced to death. I never want to see the two words together ever again.

Wondy wrote:Let's hope that 2011 is a good one as far as UD is concerned

Agreed. It will be UD's 10th Anniversary in January, I hope that the forum raises its spirits and tries to get back to its roots in the process.

albert

Wonderlicious wrote:The main reason why I joined this forum was to be able to discuss Disney, animation and the like.

I totally get that. When I joined back in 2003, I was starving for some animation and character discussions. I feel pretty lucky that my family and RL friends were so accepting of my interest in animation, but that didn't mean they were too interested in holding a conversation beyond exclaiming, "Hurr, I like Shrek!" And I've lurked in other animation-based online communities over the years and never found anything quite like this one, which is why I keep returning.

But sometimes? I dunno. I feel like I've run out of things to say, especially when I have no clue how people are going to react anymore. Why bother sharing an opinion when I find myself being accused of some pretty terrible things over making a simple statement, then get told I'm somehow making personal attacks when I take a few moments to try to explain myself more clearly? It's not only frustrating and draining, it's hurtful and zaps all the fun out of this place. I don't have the mental energy for being involved with arguments I never even saw myself being a part of in the first place.

Escapay wrote:

enigmawing wrote:Instead of seeing the informative, friendly, goofy posts I used to enjoy, I see a lot of bickering that no amount of positive energy can lighten up. In fact, it seems that any attempts made to lighten things up is only met with further hostility.

I know. But I think the two of us might have milk-budded some threads to death, too. Maybe we need to come up with more funny schticks? Still, can't beat a milk bud!

Yeah, I hear ya there. I don't always have a way with words but I'm a sucker for recurring gags and visual madness. I think I have . . . shall we say . . . a unique sense of humor that I often hold back on. I imagine I've failed miserably at times, but for several months now I've tried to not even bring up Milk Buds unless someone else does. I was genuinely bothered that some people showed such great annoyance with the last batch of pics I was asked to do, because really . . . I don't like to shake things up. Sure, I'm a little goofy, a little crazy, but it's not like I ever purposefully try to get on anyone's nerves.

Escapay wrote:And I haven't even mentioned my frustrations about the stupid Blu vs. DVD arguments. If you have Blu, you're a rich elitist. If you have DVD, you're a po' boy living in the past. Just shut up, the both of you and buy what you want without having to tell other people how to spend their money.

It never ends; in fact I see it happening in another thread as we speak. I do see some genuine complaints and concerns about the formats, but there's absolutely no reason to be dissing any of the members here over their buying preference.

Escapay wrote:Disney has been essenced to death. I never want to see the two words together ever again.

I'm afraid I'm not quite there yet.



My apologies for reposting that one.

Escapay wrote:[...] but when I sit down at my computer and peruse through the forums here, it used to be extremely rare to see certain words. Now, probably 1/4 of the forum regulars curse and think nothing of it.

I've been at UD for over six years, [...] I know I should, but it's disheartening at times when one of my favorite places to visit online has sometimes become an afterthought rather than a priority. I used to post multiple times a day every day and lately find myself posting only a few times during one visit a day. [...]

there has been a shift in the type of posting that goes on, so much so that some regulars do leave without any notice, or post far less frequently than they used to. Most of the regulars these days seem to be from 2008 or later, and the few of us that are still pre-2006 gets smaller and smaller every month. Just using the NJ Trilogy for an example, Jane stopped posting in 2006, came back for a couple months in 2009, but hasn't bothered since because she didn't like how the forum was compared to when she left. Kram attempts to keep up with UD, but very rarely posts, and is still amazed that some people remember who he is. [...]

But for me personally, it's only been since about early/mid 2009 or so that I've found myself really feeling less and less excited about checking UD during my daily round-up of internet sites.

I don't want to come off as a jerk, or belittle your feelings, but from reading your two posts (which I merged above), it seems to me that it's not so much a perceived increase in hostility on UD that bothers you, but the fact that many regulars don't post here anymore. Your post drips from the nostalgia in it. Your post expresses a wish that people you knew on UD five or six years ago were still here. But on forums like these, people lose their interest after some years, and new people will come in. The way you said that the only regulars who are here now, came in after 2008, made it sound like that was a bad thing --and the addition "only" made it a bit insulting as well.

You state you have lost some interest in UD yourself. You blame it on a perceived increase in hostility. I haven't been here prior to 2008, but Lazario has, and according to his facts (and I know from experience he keeps good records) it has actually decreased. The feeling I get from your posts (and several others, including e.g. Wonderlicious --and this is not meant as a complaint!), is that you have lost interest in UD and try to find a reason, while the reason is simply that you have become bored with it. Which is only natural after six years. All topics have already been discussed; all polls have been taken; every opinion has been heard by you. And frankly, *not* posting several times a day sounds like a good idea to me. Otherwise you might 'overdose' on UD.

Incidentally, there has just been a thread that was closed by CJ because of some back-and-forth bickering between Lazario and me. I take responsibility for that; I shouldn't have let him provoke me and I should have ignored all silly accusations. But it's strange people should complain about this, since everybody hated the thread anyway, because the discussion was always going in circles. Anyway, a few months ago two threads were also locked in Off-Topic because things got heated.

Other than that, I haven't seen any increase in hostility in the past two years that I've been here. What constitutes 'hostile behavior' may vary from one person to another. Super Aurora got a very funny post deleted because of 'inappropriate language'. I didn't see anything wrong with it, but that just goes to show how we may have different points of view on what's appropriate or not. But, as you said, "half of all threads" having a hostile atmosphere? No, I can definitly say that's not the case. UD is a fine community with lots of great people; even if it's not the same it was when you joined six years ago.

enigmawing wrote:When I joined back in 2003, I was starving for some animation and character discussions.

I always wanted to talk about things I can't describe. I guess that's why I've gone picture-mad. Instant reaction. We could always try and curb discussion back to that sort of thing. But this leads me to the reason why I practiced a disappearing act quite a few times this year - I don't care about new Disney. The majority of discussion always goes into movies that haven't been made yet and pages and pages of talk on the latest Diamond Edition- including the one yet to be released. 4 pages for Tangled- and it's only been in theaters about 2 weeks or so!! I'll get to Tangled eventually. But what about the older films? I'll tell you what about 'em - you're talking to the wind. No matter what you talk about: essence, Walt (and I just leave him out altogether, I think we have enough MerlinJones to pick up the slack there), whatever.

There doesn't seem to be room for various opinions on UD anymore. There's just a very strong current dedicated to DVD and new films from the past 7 years and that's it. How many people does it really take to insult Home on the Range and Chicken Little anyway? No wonder UD's gone the way of DVDizzy. I guess if DisneyDVD themselves thought people cared as much about the past as they do the past 21 years, there'd be a greater wealth of Disney product on DVD to talk about. With so many UD'ers and so many young people, I find it impossible to believe that we've all seen everything Disney has to offer and so that's why the majority is so focused on the now and the future.

Laz has a point. we do need to talk a bit more about old releases. Of course, we only talk about new stuff cuz that's where all the news is, but it's mostly either marketing, repeating, or just plain boring.

continue brainstorming.

Escapay wrote:

Wondy wrote:The main reason why I joined this forum was to be able to discuss Disney, animation and the like.

And bump up old threads with one-liners. ;P I think it's hilarious that I initially used to hate seeing your name on UD and thankfully have since grown to love it.

lol, I had never been on a net forum before, and was a bit of an immature teen (though not quite on Fangirl level, or some others ). I think my initial bumping phase was out of such excitement to discover that I could discuss anything to do with Disney or animation without people saying such inane tat as "SHREK IZ SO FUNNIE, IT PROOFS THAT DIZ-NEE IS SO LAME" or "3D ANIMATION IZ SO MORE BETTER THAN 2D ANIMATION AS IT'S MORE LIFELIKE". Part of the reason why I like Ratatouille so much and think that it's a reasonably underrated film is that I can relate to Remy's situation; he's surrounded by people eating garbage and gets scolded for having aspirations.

And yes, people around five or six years ago in my RL said that they liked Shrek as it urinated on Disney's legacy, and also said that anything CG is lifelike (including this).

Escapay wrote:I agree that there have been some topics that have become interesting, but I ultimately end up not saying much in most because of the way it gradually descends into us-or-them me-vs-you opinion-vs-fact-vs-delusion and I start wondering why I should bother posting what I want to say if that's what it will receive.

Sunny Wing wrote:I feel like I've run out of things to say, especially when I have no clue how people are going to react anymore. Why bother sharing an opinion when I find myself being accused of some pretty terrible things over making a simple statement, then get told I'm somehow making personal attacks when I take a few moments to try to explain myself more clearly?

Yeah. I think I've been lucky to not get people throw that many eggs at me and to not get into huge levels of controversy, though I feel that I have had one or two people try and undermine me, my opinions and my general intelligence. And it's all over ultimately lightweight stuff.

Escapay wrote:And I haven't even mentioned my frustrations about the stupid Blu vs. DVD arguments. If you have Blu, you're a rich elitist. If you have DVD, you're a po' boy living in the past. Just shut up, the both of you and buy what you want without having to tell other people how to spend their money.

I've mainly stayed out of those discussions, basically as I do want to eventually go Blu but at the moment realise that it's not entirely feasible for me (moving around a lot, basically), so I'm basically gonna remain Swiss on the matter. If only Apple would make a MacBook that could play Blu-Rays.

Escapay wrote:I've done my best to rectify that (limiting the number of games, standardizing the rules so that every game is the same, not allowing the same members to keep starting games without letting others do so, etc.). But sometimes I wish that HoH was just banned from Polls and Games forever. Still, at least they're not as useless and bandwidth-wasting as "Last One to Post... Wins!" I really want a mod to close that thread simply to be able to say, "Closing this thread. Haha, I win."

Oh yes, I know you posted that thread, and kudos for that. I do think that we don't necessarily need non-Disney HoH games in there as well; I understand that the barrel has been a bit scraped, but I wonder why we have Futurama HoHs or Glee Songs HoHs. The "Last One to Post Wins" thread is pretty stupid, I have to say.

Escapay wrote:Maybe we need to come up with more funny schticks? Still, can't beat a milk bud!

MILK BUDS!
I do love a Milk Bud as well, I'll say, and I'm sure that many people do. For a similar reason to the Milk Bud controversy, I've kept Fangirl from posting on my UD account, as the last thing she posted got me labelled as a misogynist.

Goliath wrote:The way you said that the only regulars who are here now, came in after 2008, made it sound like that was a bad thing --and the addition "only" made it a bit insulting as well.
...
The feeling I get from your posts (and several others, including e.g. Wonderlicious --and this is not meant as a complaint!), is that you have lost interest in UD and try to find a reason, while the reason is simply that you have become bored with it. Which is only natural after six years.

Let me say for my part that there have been many good members to arrive on UD since 2008 or 2007, many of whom have contributed wonderful stuff. I started lurking and eventually stopped posting as regularly as I did around the middle or end of 2007, partly because of things going on in my life distracting me (:cough: uni :cough:), and also because of a sense of boredom (we went through a phase of constant fluff threads from the end of 2006 and into 2007, which have generally since died down happily). I just went and looked at my posts (yes, I got to around page 47 ) and observed that I hardly posted at all within the last quarter of 2007 and beginning of 2008, started posting quite a bit again for a bit in the summer of 2008 after a good pause (I clearly remember not visiting the main page or the forums for around a month in May 2008 due to exams), but then didn't really come back until around February/March 2009 (2009, or at least its first three quarters, went pretty bad for me, and the forum became a nice, missed escape). I still come here on a practically daily basis (and if I'm not too busy, more than once a day), and I really like this forum a lot. If anything, I just want to prevent myself from having to leave the forums on reasonably bad terms.

Goliath wrote:It seems to me that it's not so much a perceived increase in hostility on UD that bothers you, but the fact that many regulars don't post here anymore. Your post drips from the nostalgia in it. Your post expresses a wish that people you knew on UD five or six years ago were still here. But on forums like these, people lose their interest after some years, and new people will come in. The way you said that the only regulars who are here now, came in after 2008, made it sound like that was a bad thing --and the addition "only" made it a bit insulting as well.

I never said "only" nor did I mean it as a bad thing. I said "Most of the regulars these days seem to be from 2008 or later, and the few of us that are still pre-2006 gets smaller and smaller every month." I'm aware that the changing regulars means a changing shift in the forum atmosphere. Yes, I do miss some regulars that have since vanished away or post far less than they used to (e.g. RJKD23, Pluto Region1, deathie mouse, Loomis, etc.). But I don't expect them to suddenly rise from the virtual dead and post here again simply to make me feel better.

The most outrageous things in 2005 might've been when the forum got hacked or when Alan insulted everyone else's income. But in 2010? There's probably been more threads closed, more off-topic fights within threads, more verbal warnings issued, more trolling, etc. And it's become a behavior that newer regulars seem to think is day-to-day, when it simply shouldn't be. Therein lies my problem, because regulars who come into the forum without knowing of that past (it's not their fault, they weren't here), automatically assume that the way the forum is now is the way it always will be. Granted, I could turn that argument against me and say "the way the forum was in 2004 isn't the way it always would be", but I'm aware of that. It's just that UD today could use more improvements among the community and how we talk to each other.

albert

ajmrowland wrote:Laz has a point. we do need to talk a bit more about old releases. Of course, we only talk about new stuff cuz that's where all the news is, but it's mostly either marketing, repeating, or just plain boring.

continue brainstorming.

Some need to stop being so condescending when it comes to their beliefs and opinions when it comes to Disney topics as well as Off-topic subjects such as politics and religion. No one's beliefs and opinions are golden and the one true way. They need to stop treating theirs like it is and need to stop putting down others and looking down at others who don't share the opinions and beliefs they do. Who do they think they are to do so?


To address what you were saying, yes it would be nice to talk most abot old releases. I made a silly symphony thread that quickly died. I get the new releases are going to be most popular but I would like to discuss more older releases as well.

The_Iceflash wrote:Some need to stop being so condescending when it comes to their beliefs and opinions when it comes to Disney topics as well as Off-topic subjects such as politics and religion. No one's beliefs and opinions are golden and the one true way. They need to stop treating theirs like it is and need to stop putting down others and looking down at others who don't share the opinions and beliefs they do. Who do they think they are to do so?

Maybe it's true that people shouldn't make threads about "controversial" subjects if they don't want people posting opinions that don't agree with theirs. But... think about something there for a second. If you're gay, what right does someone else have to come along and tell you that your birth is wrong? That's the same as saying people have no right to be black or that it's wrong to be born into a family that is Buddhist or something. There's a lot of this unstable ground on UD- I hate to say it but a lot of people on the forum are pampered, sheltered brats who think it's a casual opinion to say "homosexuality is wrong" or complain about things that aren't "nice" in the world. I agree people like Goliath are too tough (and me sometimes). But some other people just need to grow up. Period. If kids want to talk about serious things, they're going to have to learn the hard way. Because we don't know how old each other are unless we ask - etc.

There are very few people on UD who are made of pure sunshine. So, if we all accept a little blame, we might find a way to understand each other.

Lazario wrote:

The_Iceflash wrote:Some need to stop being so condescending when it comes to their beliefs and opinions when it comes to Disney topics as well as Off-topic subjects such as politics and religion. No one's beliefs and opinions are golden and the one true way. They need to stop treating theirs like it is and need to stop putting down others and looking down at others who don't share the opinions and beliefs they do. Who do they think they are to do so?

Maybe it's true that people shouldn't make threads about "controversial" subjects if they don't want people posting opinions that don't agree with theirs. But... think about something there for a second. If you're gay, what right does someone else have to come along and tell you that your birth is wrong? That's the same as saying people have no right to be black or that it's wrong to be born into a family that is Buddhist or something. There's a lot of this unstable ground on UD- I hate to say it but a lot of people on the forum are pampered, sheltered brats who think it's a casual opinion to say "homosexuality is wrong" or complain about things that aren't "nice" in the world. I agree people like Goliath are too tough (and me sometimes). But some other people just need to grow up. Period. If kids want to talk about serious things, they're going to have to learn the hard way. Because we don't know how old each other are unless we ask - etc.

There are very few people on UD who are made of pure sunshine. So, if we all accept a little blame, we might find a way to understand each other.

It's not about having different opinions or people making controversial threads. People are entitled to their opinions and are allowed to make threads so opinions and the threads themselves aren't necessarily the problem here (Though sometimes it might be better off for certain threads weren't made to begin with. Threads that practically instigate fights and arguments we can probably do without). Where it's a problem is when people act so condescending about their opinions and make threads that reflect that. I think the idea that people need to "grow up" is BS. There's no reason why in any thread why anyone has to be as aggressive as some are, spew personal attacks, and belittle anyone. There's no call for it. One might disagree with what a person said (it's a forum so it's bound to happen a lot) but that's no excuse for anyone to treat others so badly about them at all.

Lazario wrote:I agree people like Goliath are too tough (and me sometimes).

You agree? Really? With whom do you agree? Nobody said "Goliath is too tough". You don't agree with somebody, you just saw an opportunity to slam me.

Blah blah blah, drama drama drama, blah blah, drama. That's all this forum is.

The_Iceflash wrote:It's not about having different opinions or people making controversial threads.

It was when I replied to you here:

The_Iceflash wrote:Some need to stop being so condescending when it comes to their beliefs and opinions when it comes to Off-topic subjects such as politics and religion. No one's beliefs and opinions are golden and the one true way.

Lazario wrote:Maybe it's true that people shouldn't make threads about "controversial" subjects if they don't want people posting opinions that don't agree with theirs.

So, I'm not really sure what you're talking about with that ^.

The_Iceflash wrote:People are entitled to their opinions and are allowed to make threads so opinions and the threads themselves aren't necessarily the problem here (Though sometimes it might be better off for certain threads weren't made to begin with. Threads that practically instigate fights and arguments we can probably do without). Where it's a problem is when people act so condescending about their opinions and make threads that reflect that. I think the idea that people need to "grow up" is BS. There's no reason why in any thread why anyone has to be as aggressive as some are, spew personal attacks, and belittle anyone. There's no call for it. One might disagree with what a person said (it's a forum so it's bound to happen a lot) but that's no excuse for anyone to treat others so badly about them at all.

I don't think you understood me. In fact, you purposefully ignored where I made sure to outline the kind of person I'm talking about on UD, the people who need to grow up. I wasn't talking about people who don't like the hostile vibes here. I'm talking about people who want to post opinions they know are seen as ignorant or hateful or anti-human by many others and don't care. A lot of people might seem to post opinions under your whether-you-like-it-or-not system, but reveal their nasty side soon after. There are people on UD who have posted racist, sexist, classist, and homophobic views on UD. Those are not the kinds of opinions I think anyone has to tolerate. So, sorry, but I'm not taking back what I said. Some People on UD Have to Grow Up. If they're the ones who bolt after they find the replies they get aren't simply "agree to disagree," especially considering how much ruder things get on YouTube and Yahoo!... all for the better.

If however, on the other hand, you think some people on UD are aggressive about everything they think... I agree with you. But don't try to lecture me on it.

Goliath wrote:

Lazario wrote:I agree people like Goliath are too tough (and me sometimes).

You agree? Really? With whom do you agree? Nobody said "Goliath is too tough". You don't agree with somebody, you just saw an opportunity to slam me.

And you couldn't take it. You had to rush back in and defend yourself. No one is allowed to say even the slightest thing critical about you.

Why's that? Pride or ego?

Lazario wrote:

The_Iceflash wrote:It's not about having different opinions or people making controversial threads.

It was when I replied to you here:

The_Iceflash wrote:Some need to stop being so condescending when it comes to their beliefs and opinions when it comes to Off-topic subjects such as politics and religion. No one's beliefs and opinions are golden and the one true way.

Lazario wrote:Maybe it's true that people shouldn't make threads about "controversial" subjects if they don't want people posting opinions that don't agree with theirs.

So, I'm not really sure what you're talking about with that ^.

Essentially, it means "some people need to get off their soapboxes and accept the fact that they have as little proof to their beliefs as the other guy.

The_Iceflash wrote:People are entitled to their opinions and are allowed to make threads so opinions and the threads themselves aren't necessarily the problem here (Though sometimes it might be better off for certain threads weren't made to begin with. Threads that practically instigate fights and arguments we can probably do without). Where it's a problem is when people act so condescending about their opinions and make threads that reflect that. I think the idea that people need to "grow up" is BS. There's no reason why in any thread why anyone has to be as aggressive as some are, spew personal attacks, and belittle anyone. There's no call for it. One might disagree with what a person said (it's a forum so it's bound to happen a lot) but that's no excuse for anyone to treat others so badly about them at all.

I don't think you understood me. In fact, you purposefully ignored where I made sure to outline the kind of person I'm talking about on UD, the people who need to grow up.

Yeah, but you didnt even mention Goliath.

I wasn't talking about people who don't like the hostile vibes here. I'm talking about people who want to post opinions they know are seen as ignorant or hateful or anti-human by many others and don't care.

Speak for yourself. I'm comfortable in the peanut gallery.

A lot of people might seem to post opinions under your whether-you-like-it-or-not system, but reveal their nasty side soon after. There are people on UD who have posted racist, sexist, classist, and homophobic views on UD. Those are not the kinds of opinions I think anyone has to tolerate. So, sorry, but I'm not taking back what I said. Some People on UD Have to Grow Up. If they're the ones who bolt after they find the replies they get aren't simply "agree to disagree," especially considering how much ruder things get on YouTube and Yahoo!... all for the better.

You *do* realize that most people who act like that are actually grown-ups, right? That, my friend, poses an insult to children everywhere and is logically regarded as "age discrimination".

Goliath wrote: You agree? Really? With whom do you agree? Nobody said "Goliath is too tough". You don't agree with somebody, you just saw an opportunity to slam me.

And you couldn't take it. You had to rush back in and defend yourself. No one is allowed to say even the slightest thing critical about you.

Goliathcan be a bastard at times.

Lazario wrote:

Goliath wrote: You agree? Really? With whom do you agree? Nobody said "Goliath is too tough". You don't agree with somebody, you just saw an opportunity to slam me.

And you couldn't take it. You had to rush back in and defend yourself. No one is allowed to say even the slightest thing critical about you.

Why's that? Pride or ego?

I can't stand it when people lie. I will call them on it. So I did. Do you have a problem with that?

Had you said: "I think Goliath is too tough", that would have been fine with me. But you didn't. You said other people think I'm too tough. You lied. Now you're trying to cover it up with another lie.

ajmrowland wrote:Goliath can be a bastard at times.

But not to you, right? Are you here to instigate a fight between Lazario and me? If not, why are you commenting on this? Are you okay with a forum member telling lies about other member's opinions? If not, you shouldn't have sided with the one telling the lies.

I thought everyone in the world can be bastardly at times (please pardon my French)

So with that let's not fight....can't we agree to disagree and move on anymore???

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