DVDizzy Forum

Sky Syndrome wrote:I love seeing clipart of Aurora wearing an expression of uncertainty on some pieces of merch. Her face looks more beautiful on those than on the rest of the merch with her wearing a big smile.

She looks like she's lascivious for Belle.

Disney Duster, I do believe they do or did get married. I just said I didn't think of her as a princess throughout the movie because she wasn't literally a princess. And I do get that whole "any girl can be a princess" thing outside of the movies, but when I watch them I don't always draw that automatic princess connection. But I see it more now.

About the books... while the few books mentioned imply she reads for escape, we don't know what is in the library that Beast presents to her or what else she has read. I'll just go with the whole expanding vocabulary thing if nothing else.

These last lines are so completely untrue I laugh. I'm not mad at you I'm just asking questions and explaining things.

And the average age for potty-training is 2-3, I think children's biological muscles are usually finally ready then, but it really doesn't matter what age they are, you have to wait until your child shows you they really are ready themselves.

I only asked you about potty training because you originally implied my son was too stupid or immature to be doing it (???). He is 2. Your original post made me draw the "you're mad" conclusion because I could think of no other reason for you to drag my son into it.... hence, my tone earlier.

I think we got off on the wrong foot. I would like to add that I don't hate princesses and quite enjoy some of the films with them.

enigmawing wrote:I blame you for this.

Ooooh... white chocolate, my favorite! <3

Sky Syndrome wrote:I love seeing clipart of Aurora wearing an expression of uncertainty on some pieces of merch. Her face looks more beautiful on those than on the rest of the merch with her wearing a big smile.

That's because she's thinking: "what the HELL am I doing on this piece of crap?!"

Disney Duster wrote:The Disney Princess line tries to say every girl can be a princess, it's something inside more than a family heritage or title.

Which is a very wrong message. They should teach girls they can all be scientists, or doctors, or president, even. Teach them to not waste time drinking fake tea at imaginary tea parties, but instead defy traditional gender expectations. That's why I like Tiana so much (and you loathe her and her film): because she teaches girls that you can't just wish upon a star and expect everything to turn out fine; instead, you have to work for it. Something Cinderella never did.

Disney Duster wrote:[Belle] And if you really think they wouldn't get married, I don't why you would ever think that. It's just known that they would marry.

Why? Maybe the Beast was just in there for the sex?

Disney Duster wrote:And the average age for potty-training is 2-3, I think children's biological muscles are usually finally ready then, but it really doesn't matter what age they are, you have to wait until your child shows you they really are ready themselves.

Have you already grown the Dr. Phil moustache to go with that attitude?

Wonderlicious wrote:
Yep, SA. Very true. Unless, of course, those books that she was reading were actually comic books in disguise.

Even comic books are a good read and reflect good thinking mind set. lol

Goliath wrote: Why? Maybe the Beast was just in there for the sex?

Supporting Bestiality?

Goliath wrote:That's why I like Tiana so much (and you loathe her and her film): because she teaches girls that you can't just wish upon a star and expect everything to turn out fine; instead, you have to work for it. Something Cinderella never did.

Cindy worked for it. She believed in herself. Let's look at all her actions in the movie...

She woke up and sang a song about believing in dreams.

Then she rescued Gus-Gus, believing it to be the right thing to do.

Then she woke up Lucifer, believing it would benefit a cat to wake him up in the middle of his own dreaming.

Then she made breakfast for her family, believing that healthy food leads to healthy lives.

Then she did chores, believing multiple voices of herself was singing along with her.

Then she said she'd teach Lucifer a lesson after he dirtied her just-cleaned floor, believing it'd actually teach him a lesson if she ever got to do it.

Then she got the mail, believing that that's the proper thing to do when someone knocks on the door and offers it.

Then she made a snarky remark about her stepsisters' musical abilities, believing it to be bad.

Then she defiantly says to Lady Tremaine "I'm still a member of the family!" and says "By Royal Command, every eligible maiden must attend", believing Lady Tremaine would actually let her go.

Then she continued doing chores, believing that if she finished, she could work on her dress and go to the ball.

Then she finishes her chores, but didn't have time to fix her dress. No more believing.

Then mice surprise her with the dress they made for her, believing it would make her feel better.

Then after it gets ruined, she runs crying in the garden, not believing yet again and saying "I can't believe, not anymore. There's nothing to believe in."

Then her Fairy Godmother appeared to make her a new dress, and she believed once again.

Then she walked into a party unescorted, believing she could get away with it and apparently she did since none of the guards bothered to come up and say "Are you lost, miss?".

Then she walked around aimlessly and distracted Charming away from the line of ladies who had been waiting patiently, believing they wouldn't mind even though she was unannounced and nobody knew who she was.

Then they lost track of time and she lost a slipper, believing that such an accident was a gift when it turns out she kept the other one after the midnight magic wore off.

Then she sang and danced with herself clue-ing in to Lady Tremaine that she did indeed go to the ball, believing that Tremaine didn't see/hear her.

Then when she was locked up, rather than try to figure a way out of the situation, she cried on and on while mice had to get her a key and carry it up so many flights of stairs. After which they had to face Lucifer. And then finally get Bruno to come a-running. I can't fit "believe" into here, but if you can, you get 5 bonus points.

Then she came running down the stairs while the Grand Duke checked out her legs, believing them to be nice and shapely.

The Lady Tremaine tripped the guy breaking the slipper, believing it would ruin Cindy's chance.

Then she showed him the other slipper, believing it would help.

Yep, she worked for it. Because she believed. Anything can happen when you believe. Just like Blanche Devereaux said...

• Blanche: All your dreams can come true if you believe. All you have to do is believe!
  
  Dorothy: [clapping hands excitedly] Oh, I do believe! I do believe in sluts!

albert

Escapay wrote:Then when she was locked up, rather than try to figure a way out of the situation, she cried on and on while mice had to get her a key and carry it up so many flights of stairs. After which they had to face Lucifer. And then finally get Bruno to come a-running. I can't fit "believe" into here, but if you can, you get 5 bonus points.

Bruno believed he could have Lucifer for breakfast until the cat fell out the window. Then Disney Television Animation/DisneyToon Studios rescued Lucifer and brought him back in the cancelled series/sequel, believing people actually wanted to see such tripe. How's that?

Or you could say Cinderella believed that Bruno believed he could have Lucifer for breakfast.

Now I'll just hide in the corner with my newly-purchased Cinderella ornament while you incur the wrath of Disney Duster...

Don't forget that when Lucifer was thrown out the window he believed in the common belief that cats land on their feet so he survived the very long fall and has now appeared in two additional Cinderella sequels.

HOORAY!

while as are talking about belle and books, one thing always puzzled/amused me, even as a kid.
when she gets her new book and shows the sheep by the water fountain, theres clearly a full page illustration. then when gaston takes it off her and flips through it, he says there are no pictures.

sunhuntin wrote:while as are talking about belle and books, one thing always puzzled/amused me, even as a kid.
when she gets her new book and shows the sheep by the water fountain, theres clearly a full page illustration. then when gaston takes it off her and flips through it, he says there are no pictures.

He likely browsed the pages that didn't have the illustrations. Don't forget that he wasn't that interested and just wanted to tease Belle about it.

yeh, thats true. never thought about it like that. hehe.

sunhuntin wrote:while as are talking about belle and books, one thing always puzzled/amused me, even as a kid.
when she gets her new book and shows the sheep by the water fountain, theres clearly a full page illustration. then when gaston takes it off her and flips through it, he says there are no pictures.

Oh my God, that never crossed my mind! Now I'm a little embarrassed...

Escapay ....

I take it from that, Seasame Street style, your word for the day is ......

BELIEVE ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

Escapay wrote:I can't fit "believe" into here, but if you can, you get 5 bonus points.

Though pap64 and Disneykid have had a go, I'll aim for 75 points by mentioning "believe" 15 times!

Cinderella cried as she believed that crying might bring about some form of help, as it had done last time in the garden when she was crying so much that she claimed to not believe in anything any more. Jaques and Gus, however, believed that they could help, and set themselves to work getting the key. When they saw the flight of stairs to the attic, Gus started to doubt himself, but Jaques made him believe in himself.

Then Lucifer believed he could get revenge, and possibly get some dinner, by trapping innocent Gus. The mice and birds believed they could help by throwing stuff at Lucifer and whatnot, but it was only when Cinderella remembered Bruno that she believed in getting out. Bruno is brought up, believing Cinderella to be in trouble. He growled at Lucifer, believing that he would scare him. Lucifer, believing the window to be a good point of escape, jumped out of it, and splat. Gus now believe in life once again, and Cinderella opened the door.

Of course, the Stepmother could have found Lucifer's remains at the foot of the tower, and believing that her daughters had been through enough heartache that day and couldn't stomach the passing of the family pet (then they'd stop believing that they could make a come-back somehow), quickly bought a nearly identical cat and also called him Lucifer. Then she'd train new Lucifer to believe that he was old Lucifer and know who Cinderella and the mice are (and to hate them accordingly), and hey presto, Lucifer returns, believing that he'll help make the cheapquels work, possibly bringing the Tremains back into the lime-light! How wrong was he...

Goliath wrote:

Disney Duster wrote:The Disney Princess line tries to say every girl can be a princess, it's something inside more than a family heritage or title.

Which is a very wrong message. They should teach girls they can all be scientists, or doctors, or president, even. Teach them to not waste time drinking fake tea at imaginary tea parties, but instead defy traditional gender expectations.

Yes, yes, yes! As nice as it may make girls feel "special", the definitions of said word are rather narrow and not a representation of what women can do; it's a mindframe dictated by a bunch of executives who care about nothing but profit. Which is more sexist and jerk-like than I'll ever be, despite what some may say.

tightlacedboots wrote:Disney Duster, I do believe they do or did get married. I just said I didn't think of her as a princess throughout the movie because she wasn't literally a princess. And I do get that whole "any girl can be a princess" thing outside of the movies, but when I watch them I don't always draw that automatic princess connection. But I see it more now.

I've always seen the whole "what makes a princess a princess" thing as being about what their status at the end of the film is. Cinderella, Tiana and Belle are princesses in my eyes as they do marry princes (Cinderella and Tiana more visibly so, I assumed that Belle and her prince were having their wedding dance). Obviously, Snow White, Aurora, Ariel and Jasmine are princesses by birth, as is Pocahontas (the chief's daughter). Needless to say, I always just saw the Disney Princess line as just centring around any Disney heroine, at least in the earlier days when it admittedly wasn't so bad (it has never been particularly creative or progressive, but not the joke it is today, what with the tacky jewel-encrusted tiaras and dresses and Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique stuff). Mulan has always featured heavily, Tinker Bell was a regular guest star until she got her own product line, and Alice, Mary Poppins and others have been used for padding, be it in the parks, on DVDs or CDs, or just general merchandise.

atlanticaunderthesea wrote:Escapay .... !

Ditto. I read this at the computer in the library, and I laughed so hard people gave me disturbed looks left and right.

Escapay wrote:WHITE CHOCOLATE?!?!?

That's FAKE chocolate. I absolutely refuse to eat Disney Princess Milk Buds if they're white chocolate.

But . . . but . . . but . . .

White chocolate is so beautiful and delicate and princessy, even if it's fake! And that's what the princess line is all about!

Escapay wrote:Make some Disney Heroes Chocolate Milk Buds.

Or Disney Sidekicks Cinnamon Milk Buds.

And of course, we can't go without the Disney Villains Poisoned Dragon's Liver Milk Buds.

What did the Heroes line show us? Sorry, but there's simply no market for such concepts. It's Disney Princesses all the way! So how about we top off all this whimsical candy with something wholesome to drink . . .


(Straw Placement Fail.)

I don't know who was the one that brought up the Disney Princess issue, but I'll post my two cents.

As I've said in the past, there is no issue with girls pretending to be princess, or boys pretending to be pirates or GI Joes or any other kind of hero or character. We have all indulge in some form of fantasy via our imaginations, a movie, TV show or even toys and other form of merchandise. If you want a kid to grow up to become a sensible adult, EDUCATION is important.

As much as we love these characters they shouldn't our SOLE role models, especially at a young age where they are impressionable. Once again, kids have their heroes and have many forms of idol worship. But they shouldn't be the only role models in their lives. Parents, other family members and other members of society should be the other example.

And rather than just banning all of this stuff or even shielding them from it, talk to them about it, say that its OK to have fun with them but that there's more to life than what they say. In other words, its OK for a little girl to have a princess tea party as long as you are there to tell her that life isn't as sweet as easy but very fulfilling if you take the steps towards a better life.

Why do I offer this advice? Because as a kid I indulged myself in fantasy worlds, almost to the point where I nearly became disconnected from the real world, because I was so abused by other kids and felt so bad about myself over things I had no control over that I found shelter in that world. The reason I was able to have a balance between the two was because I also had great people that taught me about the good of the world, about the harsh realities while telling me that the world can still be a wonderful place if you work hard to make a difference and achieve a dream by working hard. I had REAL people to admire and to look up to, and my cartoon heroes were just that, heroes that I enjoyed and that their adventures amused me.

In other words, I am against banning these things because to me at least it is saying that parents have no longer that ability to be an influence in their kid's life so they want an ENTERTAINMENT medium to do so for them, and let's not deny that some of these mothers fight for what THEY believe it rather than the well being of the KIDS (as in, it's very likely that some of these feminist mothers spend more time talking about how parents should raise a kid and less time being a parent).

So in short, yes, the Disney Princess media is silly and is way out of control, and some of its messages are very cheesy and silly. But should we ban them and any other franchise from our kid's life? Of course now. It should be controlled and parents should educate them without getting overboard themselves, because if you destroy a child's imagination early on because you fear they might become delusional adults you run the risk of turning them into adults that can't look at the world with different color shades or even enjoy themselves because they were taught on to be a responsible adult rather than a kid.

These are just my two cents, though.

UmbrellaFish wrote:

sunhuntin wrote:while as are talking about belle and books, one thing always puzzled/amused me, even as a kid.
when she gets her new book and shows the sheep by the water fountain, theres clearly a full page illustration. then when gaston takes it off her and flips through it, he says there are no pictures.

Oh my God, that never crossed my mind! Now I'm a little embarrassed...

Ditto, and I just watched the movie. Although didn't the sheep did eat that picture?

The score stands as thus:

Wonderlicious: 75 points (15 uses of "believe")
Disneykid: 15 points (3 uses of "believe")
pap64: 5 points (1 use of "believe")

Congratulations, Wondy! You win a pink elephant!



Even though it doesn't really come across in my last post, I think Cindy should be admired for her steadfast believing. But actually doing something about it can take you much further.

For example, look at when ichabod believed he was a tree:

• I wish I was a tree!
  
  I believe I am a tree!
  
  I am not a tree!

What did he do wrong? Why wasn't he a tree?

Because he didn't do anything about it beyond believing he could be a tree. He didn't go live in a forest for awhile, standing perfectly still while squirrels and birds made him their home. He didn't shed leaves in the fall, provide shade in the summer. He didn't go out of his way to acquire epidermodysplasia verruciformis, which would make him look like a tree. All he did was believe. "Believing" can only do so much before "taking action" needs to come in and say "Okay, here's what I'll do..."

And bring on the wrath. It'll be Disney Essence II. Or Dusty/Scaps Argument XLII. Not that I'm keeping count.

albert

Flanger-Hanger wrote:

UmbrellaFish wrote: Oh my God, that never crossed my mind! Now I'm a little embarrassed...

Ditto, and I just watched the movie. Although didn't the sheep did eat that picture?

Ahem...

I said:

"He likely browsed the pages that didn't have the illustrations. Don't forget that he wasn't that interested and just wanted to tease Belle about it."