DVDizzy Forum

blackcauldron85 wrote:

jpanimation wrote:
In all honesty, to the question: Do I 'want' to see a gay couple? Neither yes or no. The only 'want' I have in my Disney movies are great characters, stories and animation. I could care less about the character's ethnicity, gender and sexual preferences.

That's very well said. I agree. It is about the story and great characters, so if a story were to be told with gay characters, as long as it's a good story and they're good characters...

Agreed. Those should come first. If they come up with a great story where the characters just so happen to be gay then so be it. I just wouldn't want it to become gimmicky.

singerguy04 wrote:I think it would be relatively easy for disney to start including gay characters as co-stars in a film. Hermes from Hercules comes off that way for example.

Hermes most definitly is gay --in the tv series even more so!

Disney's Divinity wrote:And I do realize that was a generalization, but that is how the majority would react.

Yeah, you're right.

candydog wrote:If we can allow them to see a man and a woman walk down the street holding hands why can't we allow them to see two men or two women?

Religion.

Disney Duster wrote:The answer is yes.

All who say no are homophobes. They say they aren't, but, yea right.

I said no. Am I a homophobe now?

PatrickvD wrote:

Disney Duster wrote:The answer is yes.

All who say no are homophobes. They say they aren't, but, yea right.

I said no. Am I a homophobe now?

LOL Right......

I am certainly not Homophobic but have no desire to see a gay relationship played out in a Disney film.

I really would love to see an original gay fairy tale....that would have been so wonderful to me when I was growing up...and it would be great to experience now as an adult!

Oh, come now. That's just silly. It's like saying, "You know I'm not a racist, but I hate seeing interracial couples in Disney films!" Yeah, right. I'm sorry, but I think there is something inherently homophobic in saying you'd never want to see gay people in Disney movies.

Sure. Why not, I guess? Though the problems you get then are a) it'll be considered 'gimmicky' just like TPaTF, as in it gets recognized for something the characters are, instead of what the story contains. And b) stereotypes. Yeah... who are we kidding. It's not in their best interest to portray non-stereotypical characters in such a case (i.e. Jafar, Ursula, Scar are perfect examples).

Rest assured if it'll ever happen, Disney will be the last to do so. I'd bet my right hand on that.

Margos wrote:Oh, come now. That's just silly. It's like saying, "You know I'm not a racist, but I hate seeing interracial couples in Disney films!" Yeah, right. I'm sorry, but I think there is something inherently homophobic in saying you'd never want to see gay people in Disney movies.

okay I'll do you one better. I do not wish to see gay couples as main characters in a Disney film.






and I am 100% gay.

supergay...

singing-in-the-rain-gay...

still a homophobe?

I dont know what's with you guys for getting on Disney for taking so long to make an African American princess as if it was intentional.

I'm convinced that it's not.

The guy created Song of the South for crying out loud!!! The first Disney film to have a African American in a leading role and one of the earliest live action Disney films ever made.

And you may argue "well Disney hasnt done more or any films with African Americans since then" BUT neither did any of the other major film studios back then. So I dont get what's everyone's deal with single-ing out Disney.

Disney's primary obligation is NOT political correctness nor is political correctness the same as family friendly (pc may play a factor but it's not the same thing). Disney's first obligation is to find a good story to adapt to film to appeal to families, and on those rare occasions they'll find a film with African American characters and themes that works and Song of the South is a good example of this. If Walt truly were racist he would've completely taking about the black people in this story and would not have cast African American comedians to voice the characters of the Brer Rabbit, Brer Fox, Brer Bear. Or we wouldnt have done it at all.

Why werent there any black princesses before TPatF? Um...maybe because it's hard as hell to find a story let alone adapt to film!

Disney was struggling with meeting project demand and it's just easier to work with popular children stories from preexisting works that the majority of Americans would familiarize themselves with. It's not Disney's fault that more than half of these stories just happened not have black characters in them.

It's also easier on writing for Disney to work with fairytales in their original environments and settings. It makes it less stressful for Disney to have to come up with new ideas. And if they alter the settings (like with Treasure Planet) then it becomes a new challenge to make these things work.

As awesome as TPatF was alot of its success is greatly attributed to having the right people on board but I cant help but think about how nitpicky the African American public became over the production of its film and some were still unhappy with it after it came out. It just pisses me off how the staff at Disney pulled off the enormous task of telling a good down-to-earth story with an African American princess while getting all of these complaints: "the prince isnt black", "we only see a black princess for half of the film and a frog in the other", "she's living in a ghetto", "how dare you set the film in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina".

That fact that after years of accusations of racism and Disney 'bowing down' to the public demand and the public still complained make me wanna hit my head against something.

Which brings me to another thought...okay, suppose Disney does find a good story to do with a homosexual couple in it...what's not to stop the LGBT community from getting nitpicky during the film's production? If I'm considered a homophobe for thinking an idea of a gay couple Disney film is silly, fine. But even I know for a fact that not all gays are the same. So you're bound to have some people complaining but at the same time clashing over what's the best way to represent a group of people that is within itself very diverse with arguments like "it's not campy enough" or "it's too campy" or "that's too stereotypical" or "that's too underwhelming". It'll just be a repeat of TPatF.

I share the same concerns as Duckburger as far as film gimmicks is concerned. Did I come to love films like TPatF and Mulan because of what races the main characters represent? No, I fell in love in with these films because they both told a great story with amazing settings. Tiana and Naveen both could've been white and it still would've been a good film all the same. And I think in a way the fact that it was the first black princess overshadowed the film's more critical significance of trying to bring back 2D animation. I'd hate to think that hurt the film and kept the public from coming. The media can be truly nasty and nosey with this kind of thing.

These racists accusations of Disney are not only getting old...theyre getting silly.

The only reason films like TP&TF become gimmicks is because of how noticeable it is that a studio with 40+ films has had no (animated) films with black characters as protagonists. Anything that has been conspicuously left out will always come across to the public as a gimmick when they first try to break the ice.

To pretend that this is not somewhat Disney's fault is silly. And it's even worse to say, "I don't want films with minority characters because the Disney company would draw attention to the fact that they've never had them before, and create controversy." Disney films still receive a remarkable amount of criticism from feminists (sometimes deserved, sometimes unfounded)--should they not make films with women now?

If they weren't always "the last to do so" as others have said, this wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem. Also, the fact that they make their films almost like Barbie Doll entries adds fuel to the fire. There's always one NA 'princess,' one Arabic princess, one Asian 'princess,' one African-American princess. Their films are almost forced to be a complete comprehensive statement of an entire group because no other film ever takes on a character of the same race again (or at least not for a long while). The next time we see another character that's African American could well be decades from now. Which doesn't at all help with the accusations that TP&TF was a gimmick.

I'm a homophobic and I'd absolutely LOVE to see a Disney gay couple. It would probably be my favorite Disney movie ever too!

Disney's Divinity wrote: To pretend that this is not somewhat Disney's fault is silly. And it's even worse to say, "I don't want films with minority characters because the Disney company would draw attention to the fact that they've never had them before, and create controversy." Disney films still receive a remarkable amount of criticism from feminists (sometimes deserved, sometimes unfounded)--should they not make films with women now?

I am not arguing that Disney should not have a film with minority characters because of the controversy it creates. I am arguing that the people who make these Disney films have the right to envision what kind of characters they see fit to tell their story.

And if the vision of their film just happens to be one where everyone would be all white people then so be it.

Same goes if one envisions the cast as being all black or all asian.

And if in those rare circumstances like Atlantis where they happen to envision a diverse group of people where each character represents a different race or ethnicity group in the story then then that's fine too.

But if Disney storytellers are being pressured to add minority characters for the sake of public demand of political correctness, then that can create problems. Because then it no longer becomes about the story more than it is about "how can we get this character to please the audience theyre representing?"

Did Musker and Clemens made The Princess and the Frog on the basis that Disney was lacking a black princess in their line of features? No. They made The Princess and the Frog because it was a good story that could be adapted to film and their best vision of the film just happened to be a 1920s urban America setting with a African American woman as the center of focus.

Disney's Divinity wrote: If they weren't always "the last to do so" as others have said, this wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem.

I still dont get this. Please explain to me how Disney is "the last to do so". Because I dont recall one single Don Bluth animated feature with an leading black character nor have I seen one in any Warners Bros animated film or Dreamworks Animation, Amblimation or Studio Ghibli...

...or even Pixar.

If you're gonna give the bad rep to Disney for waiting until 2009 to have leading black representation in an animated film then you might as well do the same to these other studios for not taking advantage of their young age to get one step ahead of Disney in this politically correct age.

Disney's Divinity wrote:The next time we see another character that's African American could well be decades from now. Which doesn't at all help with the accusations that TP&TF was a gimmick.

Provided that Disney picks up production of King of the Elves again, this will happen sooner or later as the main human character in both the film and the original story is an African American.

I will say this as an east-Asian: Am I upset that Disney has not had any east-Asian representation in an animated feature since Mulan in 1998? Am I upset that Disney has never had a theatrically released live action film that centered around an Asian American family at all? Not really. Even I know it would be a helluva challenge for Disney or any studio to come up with a good film or good story with an Asian American at its center. It was luck that Disney happened on The Legend of Mulan as a good story for an animated feature. And even I was rolling my eyes over the complaints and racial nitpicking with this feature. Some people just ask for way too much in their cartoons these days.

I meant if you say no it's either because you are a homophobe or the reason has nothing to do with actually answering the question of what you want to see or are fine with seeing, it's for some other reason like you think Disney would do it wrong or you thing it would cause too much controversy. Reasons that have nothing to do with the one question of if Disney did it at all.

toonaspie wrote:

Disney's Divinity wrote: If they weren't always "the last to do so" as others have said, this wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem.

I still dont get this. Please explain to me how Disney is "the last to do so". Because I dont recall one single Don Bluth animated feature with an leading black character nor have I seen one in any Warners Bros animated film or Dreamworks Animation, Amblimation or Studio Ghibli...

...or even Pixar.

Bébé's Kids, anyone?

Granted, it came from Hyperion Studios, which was small then and is still small now (are they still around?). But it is the first animated feature film with a predominantly-black cast.

Disney Duster wrote:I meant if you say no it's either because ... or ...

Even if you meant an either/or scenario, you didn't say it. All you said was

• All who say no are homophobes. They say they aren't, but, yea right.

No either/or about that.

albert

Escapay wrote: Bébé's Kids, anyone?

Granted, it came from Hyperion Studios, which was small then and is still small now (are they still around?). But it is the first animated feature film with a predominantly-black cast.

albert

But it sucked. The game base on it also sucked.

Super Aurora wrote:

Escapay wrote: Bébé's Kids, anyone?

Granted, it came from Hyperion Studios, which was small then and is still small now (are they still around?). But it is the first animated feature film with a predominantly-black cast.

albert

But it sucked.

I know. But it still was the first black animated film, and toonaspie was asking for a movie pre-TPATF that had a leading black character.

Haven't played the game, so I can't comment on it.

albert

PatrickvD wrote:

Margos wrote:Oh, come now. That's just silly. It's like saying, "You know I'm not a racist, but I hate seeing interracial couples in Disney films!" Yeah, right. I'm sorry, but I think there is something inherently homophobic in saying you'd never want to see gay people in Disney movies.

okay I'll do you one better. I do not wish to see gay couples as main characters in a Disney film.


and I am 100% gay.

supergay...

singing-in-the-rain-gay...

still a homophobe?

Well then, why do you not want to see gay couples as the main characters in a Disney film?

Margos wrote:

PatrickvD wrote: okay I'll do you one better. I do not wish to see gay couples as main characters in a Disney film.


and I am 100% gay.

supergay...

singing-in-the-rain-gay...

still a homophobe?

Well then, why do you not want to see gay couples as the main characters in a Disney film?

because it will be impossible for the intended audience to be able to identify with them. Aside from the obvious insanity that would break out across the world, there are many reasons why it isn't necessary.

From a young age gay kids have learnt to understand and identify with heterosexual standards. While I do think it is important to teach in schools about homosexuality at a young age so all kids will learn there is nothing wrong with two boys in love or two girls together, I think Disney is too mainstream a company to cater to a small group like this. Let's face it, if they would do this, it would be for adults... and they're not Disney's target demo.

A few gay secondary characters would be nice though. But I don't have a desire to see them as main characters and I don't think it's a necessity. And it's obviously a matter so complex I doubt anyone could pull it off without offending someone. People are so easily offended anyway these days...

So, basically, they shouldn't do it because the audience is too ignorant about it, and it is a controversial issue?

So what? It would still be great if they actually had the balls to do it.

Like I said Margos and PatrickvD,

Disney Duster wrote:I meant if you say no it's either because you are a homophobe or the reason has nothing to do with actually answering the question of what you want to see or are fine with seeing, it's for some other reason like you think Disney would do it wrong or you thing it would cause too much controversy. Reasons that have nothing to do with the one question of if Disney did it at all.