DVDizzy Forum

Lazario wrote: Lastly, just about the only thing you can do to really fight what you don't agree with is to post as good a list that defies the choices of others as you can. You haven't posted anything for yourself other than that one YouTube link and a butt-kissing recommendation of Dave's list.

And to be fair, I'd rather someone with such attitudes stop using my taste as a validation for their argument.

Lazario wrote:What I will say without shame, is that there's nothing wrong with the Jessica and Jonas Brothers kinda music. Not with people liking it. It may not be great music compared to the greats of yesterday. Or to more organic, d.e.y. (do everything yourself), or what passes for country / folk singers/songwriters today. But it's made to speak to whoever will like it.

There's nothing wrong with people liking it, I agree! I've said it before and I say it again: nothing wrong with it. I don't look down on people who like that kind of music. It's just the kind of music which I think is crap. And I think I can hold that opinion.

Lazario wrote:It kinda sounds a little bit like you have something against music made for dancing. Since what you said blasted everyone's list, including mine- I do resent that you may have thought I didn't give my list careful consideration. I did what just about everyone else did, my list was essential to me. [...]

I'm sorry I gave you the wrong impression. Did you read my piece about Dutch singer Ilse DeLange (and have you seen the link to her video)? That's just one example of "music made for dancing" that I like. And wasn't modern pop music initially 'invented' for dancing (rock 'n' roll)? There's a lot of music I hear on the radio which I like, that's "meant for dancing". The reason why I 'blasted' (too big a word, really) the lists, is that they seem out of place in a thread called best albums. Maybe favorite would've been better.

Lazario wrote:Lastly, just about the only thing you can do to really fight what you don't agree with is to post as good a list that defies the choices of others as you can. You haven't posted anything for yourself other than that one YouTube link and a butt-kissing recommendation of Dave's list.

Well, I like to think I can butt-kiss anybody if I feel like it.

I don't consider this a "fight" by the way. I'd hate it if people felt like this is a fight.

I'm thinking about a list, but it's hard to make one. Not because there's so much choice; rather, there's too little.

Oh, come on, Dave, don't be sour. Anyway, here's my list:

1. Bob Dylan- Modern Times (2006)
2. Boudewijn de Groot- Het eiland in de verte (2004)
3. Bruce Springsteen- Devils & Dust (2005)
4. Boudewijn de Groot- Lage Landen (2007)

De Groot is a Dutch singer-songwriter who has enjoyed popularity and critical acclaim since the 1960's. His songs have become 'national anthems' to the Dutch people. Although he has always written songs himself, his best and most popular songs were written by the late lyricist Lennaert Nijgh (1945-2002).

Boudewijn de Groot- Avond
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB7C_8vkXaw

Goliath wrote:I'm sorry I gave you the wrong impression. Did you read my piece about Dutch singer Ilse DeLange (and have you seen the link to her video)? That's just one example of "music made for dancing" that I like. And wasn't modern pop music initially 'invented' for dancing (rock 'n' roll)? There's a lot of music I hear on the radio which I like, that's "meant for dancing". The reason why I 'blasted' (too big a word, really) the lists, is that they seem out of place in a thread called best albums. Maybe favorite would've been better.

Ha. No, I stand by my list as being among the Best. To answer your first question: yes, I clicked it and started listening to it and kind of turned it off shortly because I heard guitars and drums and was still debating in my mind whether you were willing to accept any real pop-dance music as good.

Since no one's list is going to please everyone, when you put all the lists together... you get a good overall idea of what is in fact best. For all the different kinds of people. So long as people didn't just squeak out their list really quickly. Or that when listening to the music they're electing, they really thought about why it is really good. Which I did. I wanted to make sure indie, downbeat electronica, queercore punk, hardcore house, new millennium disco, and 80's retro-revival were also given some attention. Is any of that what you were thinking of when you elected Ilse DeLange as a candidate for dance music?

As for the other members here having better lists, perhaps they just haven't been exposed to as much non-mainstream dance music as you. It's a little late to change my list now. But I give you my word, I'll check her out the moment I have time. In the meantime, I just have to slip something in that I noticed when I first clicked on your link... she sounds pretty country. Still got the guitars and maybe live drums in there. Good for her. Not really my thing. Too "I've got it all together and I'm happy and everything's gonna be okay." If that makes any sense. Though she might not have been singing that, I could hear it in the music itself. It belongs in a group of these kinds of songs. I go for something a little more unique when I think I've found it. Especially:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dBi_aYXjuE . I already pimped her months ago in my "Artists You've Never Heard of" thread. But the more Britney, Christina, and Jessica albums eat up the lists here, the more I realize people never checked her out. Or couldn't get access to her album, which unfortunately was not very widely released in the U.S. Just because it wasn't the right trend. Or didn't sound enough like Beyonce or Fergie.

If you want a guitar, you might really like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl8mpAvTm_Y . Roisin in her band, Moloko. And, my favorite: the irresistable "Indigo" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZkudjJU2UE .

Goliath wrote:And wasn't modern pop music initially 'invented' for dancing (rock 'n' roll)?

Yes. It was. But somewhere in the 70's I believe it was, the genres began to really branch out apart from each other. Post-Beatles I'd have to say. Around the beginning of disco and soul / funk. Was there a single guitar anywhere on "I Feel Love"?

Goliath wrote:I don't consider this a "fight" by the way. I'd hate it if people felt like this is a fight.

I'm thinking about a list, but it's hard to make one. Not because there's so much choice; rather, there's too little.

Depending on how seriously you take this. I think you'll find you're the only one taking it all that seriously. It's all in fun.

Even if you do come up the single best list out of all of us... What next? What have you really accomplished?

Lazario wrote:To answer your first question: yes, I clicked it and started listening to it and kind of turned it off shortly because I heard guitars and drums and was still debating in my mind whether you were willing to accept any real pop-dance music as good.

Well, it wasn't much of an example of pop-dance music, as it was an example of 'mainstream pop music' I like. I'm just saying it doesn't have to be a rock band or a 'storyteller' for me to enjoy it. I'm not sure about what "real pop-dance music" is. Is it only that, if it doesn't include a guitar or drums? Doesn't most of the music of the Britney's and Christina's involve guitars and drums?

I like Robbie Williams (from the UK). It does involve guitar and drums. But is it therefore not dance music?

Robbie Williams- Let me entertain you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwKoq-9IgI8

Is Lily Allen dance music? Is La Roux dancemusic? I like 'Bulletproof':

La Roux- Bulletproof
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUsbpmQ9-mc

A big hit in European dance clubs (and later on radio) is 'Dance with somebody', which also includes drums, but which is certainly a dance number:

Mando Diao- Dance with somebody
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nh931yRQIM

Lazario wrote:[...] I wanted to make sure indie, downbeat electronica, queercore punk, hardcore house, new millennium disco, and 80's retro-revival were also given some attention. Is any of that what you were thinking of when you elected Ilse DeLange as a candidate for dance music?

Like I said, it's not so much that Ilse DeLange is an example of dance music. Although you could dance to it. But no, none of those genres have any appeal to me.

Lazario wrote:As for the other members here having better lists, perhaps they just haven't been exposed to as much non-mainstream dance music as you.

Nothing wrong with that (like I've said before).

Lazario wrote:It's a little late to change my list now.

Why should you change it? Nobody's asking you to.

Lazario wrote:In the meantime, I just have to slip something in that I noticed when I first clicked on your link... she sounds pretty country. Still got the guitars and maybe live drums in there. Good for her. Not really my thing. Too "I've got it all together and I'm happy and everything's gonna be okay." If that makes any sense. Though she might not have been singing that, I could hear it in the music itself. It belongs in a group of these kinds of songs.

That's in fact an apt description of Ilse DeLange's music. Most of the time it's upbeat and positive and happy. And she started out as a country musician, but she has made a turn to a more mainstream pop sound, since country isn't popular at all in The Netherlands. But like you said, you can still hear the country-influences in her music. Not in all of her songs, and not all are that 'happy', like 'Miracle', her newest big hit:

Ilse DeLange- Miracle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufOGzW761d8&feature=fvst

Lazario wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dBi_aYXjuE

I had never heard of her before. It's not too bad, but it's not something I really enjoy. Especially the echo in the singing begins to bore me after a while. I also get the impression, as the cynic that I am, that maybe the computer was used to drawn out her voice because she can't actually sing all that well. I always suspect that when effects are used as heavily as they were here. But that's just as true for La Roux, of course.

Lazario wrote:If you want a guitar, you might really like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl8mpAvTm_Y . Roisin in her band, Moloko.

I like the music. The voice, not so much. Too sweet, if you know what I mean. (For the lack of a better word.)

Lazario wrote:And, my favorite: the irresistable "Indigo" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZkudjJU2UE .

Wow, this is weird stuff!

Lazario wrote:Depending on how seriously you take this. I think you'll find you're the only one taking it all that seriously. It's all in fun. Even if you do come up the single best list out of all of us... What next? What have you really accomplished?

Who said I take this seriously? You're all the ones taking me too seriously!

I think it's a shame little people are good sports about it, like you. I like to discuss these sorts of things. But who knows how many people glance over our back-and-forth and think we're fighting? Or "arguing for the sake of arguing"? Isn't there another thread for discussing music where we don't ruïn somebody else's thread?

DisneyFreak5282:

I'm really sorry that I have caused your thread to drift this far off-topic. I mean it. I enjoy the discussion with Lazario, but I can understand it's not any fun for you, seeing your thread getting 'hijacked'. Maybe a moderator can split the discussion between Lazario and me from this thread and make it a new thread?

Goliath wrote:Well, it wasn't much of an example of pop-dance music, as it was an example of 'mainstream pop music' I like. I'm just saying it doesn't have to be a rock band or a 'storyteller' for me to enjoy it. I'm not sure about what "real pop-dance music" is. Is it only that, if it doesn't include a guitar or drums? Doesn't most of the music of the Britney's and Christina's involve guitars and drums?

Here's the joke- I don't think it does. I don't listen to enough of it to know for sure, but I'll bet you already know at least what I know about them. I doubt most of their material is written using guitars and drums before their producers mix the final notes on the programming boards.

Goliath wrote:I like Robbie Williams (from the UK). It does involve guitar and drums. But is it therefore not dance music?

I also like Robbie Williams (especially the song I'm about to link you). However, find me the drums and guitars in: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzdLuFa6xCA . Do the strings count as the same thing, since guitars have strings? Here's one I just plain feel like linking, if it has not the guitars and drums you like, let me know: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A9VVhtU-n4 .

Goliath wrote:Is Lily Allen dance music?

Ah, finally you're speaking more my language. Yes, she is definitely more along the lines I'm thinking of. And I was very close to putting her on my list of best albums, but her first album has a few bizarre tracks (the chorus to "Friday Night" just plain sucks). "The Fear" is one of the best pop songs of this entire decade and "Not Fair" is an excellent follow-up (killer video too). And I'm still waiting (in vain, mayhaps) for a video / single release for "Never Gonna Happen."

Goliath wrote:

Lazario wrote:[...] I wanted to make sure indie, downbeat electronica, queercore punk, hardcore house, new millennium disco, and 80's retro-revival were also given some attention. Is any of that what you were thinking of when you elected Ilse DeLange as a candidate for dance music?

Like I said, it's not so much that Ilse DeLange is an example of dance music. Although you could dance to it. But no, none of those genres have any appeal to me.

Hence why they made their way onto my list and not yours. It's good for different attitudes. I like upbeat music sometimes. But to balance that out, I want music that's either darker or brasher than what most of the other people here voted for, or that you've recommended. And the more you say "I like," the more I think your way of judging "best" is to go with your "favorite" just like everyone else here. But I appreciate your unique take on this topic and that, in fact, you don't have the same taste as mine. If something like "Chicago" became a hit, it would be harder for me to enjoy. It's a little personal to be the kind of thing that unites crowds. Hence further, why that album was the band's last. (Then, Manda Rin and John Disco went solo).

For some reason, all your upbeat rock-driven pop tracks have inspired me to link you to what I think is another good recommendation for more rock-driven pop that I think you should check out if you haven't already. This song has a lot of power: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdXvqMF-6vI . Another artist I pimped in my own thread.

Goliath wrote:

Lazario wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dBi_aYXjuE

I had never heard of her before. It's not too bad, but it's not something I really enjoy. Especially the echo in the singing begins to bore me after a while. I also get the impression, as the cynic that I am, that maybe the computer was used to drawn out her voice because she can't actually sing all that well. I always suspect that when effects are used as heavily as they were here. But that's just as true for La Roux, of course.

Lazario wrote:If you want a guitar, you might really like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl8mpAvTm_Y . Roisin in her band, Moloko.

I like the music. The voice, not so much. Too sweet, if you know what I mean. (For the lack of a better word.)

Lazario wrote:And, my favorite: the irresistable "Indigo" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZkudjJU2UE .

Wow, this is weird stuff!

No, I don't know what you mean. The part I latched on to in your criticisms (the distaste for pure dance, machine-driven beats and so forth, I imagined in my head) was that you don't appreciate youth-mongering stars and cheap bubblegum performers. So, I gave you examples of real adult pop singers and performers. I had no doubt that you wouldn't be too crazy about it, because I still think you're looking for the guitars and drums. But I didn't expect you to knock her voice. Her voice is one of the things that makes her such an adult. Her sultry vocals and very thoughtful expressions are not the same as the American tarty girl parade (though, neither is Lady Gaga, and I still see hardcore rock elitists blast her without bothering to check her out).

Actually, I do get the general meaning of 'too sweet'. I have 3 Moloko albums and both her solo albums and she goes all over the place. As you'll note from "Dominoid" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9VQR-AqJqQ (stick with it, she goes deeper around 0:55). And her sorta rapping in "The Flipside" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJTZoRxpbLE (though the best example if you can find it is "I Can't Help Myself") (I hope you do stick with "Flipside" all the way through, it's a beautiful video... oh, those strawberry-headed Noid characters are the "Killa Bunnies" from their first album, Do You Like My Tight Sweater? Cute huh?). The woman is one of the best pop vocalists out there, because she isn't just one thing. Almost ever.

And weird is great. I mean, I wouldn't know irony in just-imagery if it came up and bit me, but I still appreciate an interesting artistic approach when it rarely shows up (Madonna's "Bedtime Story" being a decent example).

Goliath wrote:

Lazario wrote:Depending on how seriously you take this. I think you'll find you're the only one taking it all that seriously. It's all in fun. Even if you do come up the single best list out of all of us... What next? What have you really accomplished?

Who said I take this seriously? You're all the ones taking me too seriously!

Can you blame them/us? I mean, take a look at your first post in this topic from someone else's eyes. As for me, I just try to turn a negative into a positive. And took this opportunity as a chance to express myself.

Goliath wrote:I think it's a shame little people are good sports about it, like you. I like to discuss these sorts of things. But who knows how many people glance over our back-and-forth and think we're fighting? Or "arguing for the sake of arguing"? Isn't there another thread for discussing music where we don't ruïn somebody else's thread?

Come up with an original idea for one and let it rip.

We'll continue our discussion (and invite others to join in) at:

Musical preferences- Discussion thread
http://www.ultimatedisney.com/forum/vie ... 886#476886

Josh Groban: I have come to discover in the last 6-7 years how amazing of a singer he really is. I can listen to all of his cd's non-stop for days and never tire of them. And his Christmas cd is just magical.
Josh Groban
Closer
Awake
Noel

The Corrs - In Blue, Best Of

Glee - Volumes 1 &2

Emmy Rossum - Inside Out (love the vocal layering style - so pretty)

Sam Phillips - Fan Dance (lots of her music is featured on Gilmore Girls)

B*Witched - I really liked the irish music they had for the short time they were around.

SClub7 - Loved everything by them, I would always watch their tv show.

Just in time, I've finally made my list. Of course, I'm always discovering new music, so I reserve the right to repeatedly modify this over time.

<b><u>2000</u></b>
1. Linkin Park - <i>Hybrid Theory</i>
2. Hanson - <i>This Time Around</i>
3. Matchbox 20 - <i>Mad Season</i>

<b>Honorable Mention:</b> Christina Aguilera - <i>My Kind of Christmas</i>

<b><u>2001</u></b>
1. Michael Jackson - <i>Invincible</i>
2. Ben Folds - <i>Rockin' the Suburbs</i>
3. Aerosmith - <i>Just Push Play</i>

<b><u>2002</u></b>
1. Maroon 5 - <i>Songs About Jane</i>
2. Eminem - <i>The Eminem Show</i>
3. <i>Jason Mraz - Waiting for My Rocket to Come</i>

<b>Honorable Mentions:</b> Amy Grant - <i>Legacy... Hymns & Faith</i> <b>|</b> Ben Kweller - <i>Sha Sha</i> <b>|</b> Jars of Clay - <i>The Eleventh Hour</i>

<b><u>2003</u></b>
1. Amy Grant - <i>Simple Things</i>
2. Jet - <i>Get Born</i>
3. Linkin Park - <i>Meteora</i>

<b>Honorable Mentions</b>: Jars of Clay - <i>Who We Are Instead</i> <b>|</b> Weird Al Yankovic - <i>Poodle Hat</i> <b>|</b> <i>Wicked (2003 Original Broadway Cast Recording)</i>

<b><u>2004</u></b>
1. Aerosmith - <i>Honkin' on Bobo</i>
2. Hanson - <i>Underneath</i>
3. Franz Ferdinand - <i>Franz Ferdinand</i>

<b>Honorable Mentions:</b> Keane - <i>Hopes and Fears</i> <b>|</b> Amy Grant - <i>Greatest Hits | 1986-2004</i> <b>|</b> Kelly Clarkson - <i>Breakaway</i>

<b><u>2005</u></b>
1. David Gray - <i>Life in Slow Motion</i>
2. Amy Grant - <i>Rock of Ages... Hymns & Faith</i>
3. Michael Bublé - <i>It's Time</i>

<b>Honorable Mentions:</b> Panic! at the Disco - <i>A Fever You Can't Sweat Out</i> <b>|</b> Jason Mraz - <i>Mr. A-Z</i> <b>|</b> Jars of Clay - <i>Redemption Songs</i>

<b><u>2006</u></b>
1. Justin Timberlake - <i>FutureSex/LoveSounds</i>
2. John Mayer - <i>Continuum</i>
3. Christina Aguilera - <i>Back to Basics</i>

<b>Honorable Mentions:</b> Amy Grant - <i>Time Again... Amy Grant Live</i> <b>|</b> <i>Dreamgirls: Music from the Motion Picture</i> <b>|</b> Hellogoodbye - <i>Zombies! Aliens! Vampires! Dinosaurs!</i>

<b><u>2007</u></b>
1. Maroon 5 - <i>It Won't Be Soon Before Long</i>
2. Hanson - <i>The Walk</i>
3. Michael Bublé - <i>Call Me Irresponsible</i>

<b>Honorable Mentions:</b> Linkin Park - <i>Minutes to Midnight</i> <b>|</b> Amy Grant - <i>Greatest Hits</i> <b>|</b> <i>Hairspray: Soundtrack to the Motion Picture</i>

<b><u>2008</u></b>
1. Jason Mraz - <i>We Sing. We Dance. We Steal Things.</i>
2. Panic! at the Disco - <i>Pretty. Odd.</i>
3. Mariah Carey - <i>E=MC^2</i>

<b>Honorable Mentions:</b> Jennifer Hudson - <i>Jennifer Hudson</i> <b>|</b> Rihanna - <i>Good Girl Gone Bad</i> <b>|</b> Jonas Brothers - <i>A Little Bit Longer</i>


<b><u>2009</u></b>
1. Michael Bublé - <i>Crazy Love</i>
2. David Archuleta - <i>Christmas from the Heart</i>
3. David Gray - <i>Draw the Line</i>

<b>Honorable Mentions:</b> Tinted Windows - <i>Tinted Windows</i> <b>|</b> Kelly Clarkson - <i>All I Ever Wanted</i> <b>|</b> Manchester Orchestra - <i>Mean Everything to Nothing</i>


-Aaron