DVDizzy Forum

Jack Skellington wrote:Gore Verbinski also stated that all this is just rumors, so I have a feeling that there won't be another Pirates movie. Which might be a good thing.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that there actually being a 4th film with Jonny is the only thing confirmed about it so far.

This had better be a joke. Zac Efron does not belong in a POTC movie. He does not belong in anything Disney for that matter.

Oh come on, he may be stuck in this whole HSM craze but he's not bad. Either way, he said he didn't even know about the rumors;
which of course Hollywood lies to us all the time, but here's hoping.

lord-of-sith wrote:

Jack Skellington wrote:Gore Verbinski also stated that all this is just rumors, so I have a feeling that there won't be another Pirates movie. Which might be a good thing.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that there actually being a 4th film with Jonny is the only thing confirmed about it so far.

Yes there IS a Pirates 4 which has been confirmed by Disney. Zac's role is only an idiotic rumour.

This is terrible. Zac hold no acting rank anywhere near to Johnny. I hope they go for a no name with lots of talent. Pirates is a huge franchise that needs no big names to help them.

roswellian wrote:This is terrible. Zac hold no acting rank anywhere near to Johnny. I hope they go for a no name with lots of talent. Pirates is a huge franchise that needs no big names to help them.

I completely agree with that. Disney just needs to leave Pirates the way it is-without Efron.

My take on all of this:

Efron will be in Pirates 4. If not, the current plan is for him to be in Pirates 4, but as pointed out – the contract hasn't been signed. Look again at Efron's wording and tell me he's not hedging his bets while Disney and his agent negotiate terms. "At this time it's just a rumour"? It's not an outright denial – it’s a denial with a carefully selected qualifier at the start. It's the sort of thing Efron's agent will have pointedly told him to say when responding to the question.

Secondly, why the hell can't Efron be in a Pirates film? I'll tell you now, he's three of four times the actor Bloom is, but the movies did perfectly fine with that wooden beanpole in them. I'm not a fan of the Pirates films as my posting history shows, but the presence of Efron over Bloom makes me more positive over Pirates 4 then I would normally be.

As for Efron taking over from Depp, well, if that's Disney's plan, then that's Disney's plan. If they have decided Depp is costing too much, somebody will replace him. Efron is just as good a choice as any other.

I know lots of people will go on about how Captain Jack is the Pirates films, but really, while replacing him may be misguided, its not unprecedented. The Terminator films were all about Arnie, but they've since made a third film, a TV series and are in the middle of producing a fourth Terminator movie without Arnie. When T2 came out, people would say it would be madness to make a T3 without Arnie, but the "franchise" (I hate that word) has continued to grow and remain profitable.

And though I don't think the actual character of Captain Jack would be recast - just the character being dropped from subsequent movies (or perhaps only appearing in cameo) the James Bond films have had multiple actors as Bond, and again gone from strength to strength (even after the public fuss over Craig's casting - Casino Royale once again was Box Office gold).

The aim of replacing Depp will be to get the costs down (not surprising after the runaway costs of 2 & 3) and Depp's reported pay-packet for part 4 isn't exactly frugal in these times of credit crunch.

According to IMDB Pirates 3 cost $300m to produce and promote and turned in a US Box Office of $310m! OK it made more internationally and on home video and through toys etc. But really, can you see the flaw in the business logic there? Compare that to Pirates 1 which cost $140m and brought in roughly the same US Box Office : $305m.

Money is tighter than ever these days, its obvious something has to give. And that something may be Depp.

Disney could make a Pirates 5 sans Depp and a few other cost cutting measures (reuse of sets, props, costumes and even effects assetts) probably for $100-150m. It may be successful or a flop without Depp, but odds are profit wise, they wouldn't make less than on Pirates 3.

netty wrote:Secondly, why the hell can't Efron be in a Pirates film?

[whiny and opinionated fanboy who hates all things Efron]Because he'll totally ruin the franchise, man! It's like asking Adam Sandler to do Masterpiece Theatre! Some things just don't go together![/whiny and opinionated fanboy who hates all things Efron]

netty wrote:I'll tell you now, he's three of four times the actor Bloom is, but the movies did perfectly fine with that wooden beanpole in them.

Bloom was good in Kingdom of Heaven, though.

netty wrote:The Terminator films were all about Arnie, but they've since made a third film, a TV series and are in the middle of producing a fourth Terminator movie without Arnie. When T2 came out, people would say it would be madness to make a T3 without Arnie, but the "franchise" (I hate that word) has continued to grow and remain profitable.

Arnie was in the third film, actually.

Anyway, I'm not totally against the idea of Efron being in POTC (despite my spit-take and rolling eyes in my first post). It's just that it seems too much like a publicity stunt rather than a "can he fit the role?" situation. With HSM3 being the last (more or less), Disney will want to continue milking its stars before they get too old, and with the continuing development of POTC films, that's just one more outlet for them to milk the stars in.

At the same time, the idea of Efron in POTC may not be a bad one. When given the right material, the guy can deliver. Of course, this is under the assumption that POTC4 will be that "right material" and if the previous three films are any indication (popcorn fluff that can entertain without having to be too deep), there's the possibility that Efron can deliver perfectly or become just another "wooden beanpole", to borrow netty's wonderful term.

Of the few and far between roles I've seen him in, the only ones I really felt he were good at was Miracle Run and Hairspray. Miracle Run was a pre-HSM television movie with Mary-Louise Parker and Aidan Quinn, where he played an autistic teenager. And Hairspray was such a mockery of itself that you couldn't really have any "bad" actors in it. Just hammy ones, which everyone delivered in spades. But the majority of his roles are...well, stupid.

And this doesn't count any minor TV stuff. Young actors don't get a chance to fully present themselves and their craft in a minor under-5 role or a single-episode guest appearance (unless it's really really good - see Steven R. McQueen's guest spot on "Without a Trace" from October 21). But on the whole, Efron's got more bad roles (or roles that don't require much acting, like HSM) than good ones. I think the role that will make or break him as a "serious" actor will be Richard Linklater's Me and Orson Welles. And if Linklater (Dazed and Confused, Before Sunrise, etc.) can make Jack Black more tolerable than I thought in School of Rock, who's to say what his wonderful direction can do for Efron?

albert

Escapay wrote:At the same time, the idea of Efron in POTC may not be a bad one. When given the right material, the guy can deliver.

Yes but my biggest fear is that he will a delivering this performance in a "British" accent.

I fear it'll be Dick Van Dyke all over again!

Cor' blimey, Cap'n Jack, We Be all in this together, Harr that be a reference to my older films of which I be best known, so I be!

I'm imagining a modern day version of Treasure Island, and I pray the words "Come back Bobby Driscoll, all is forgiven" never leave my lips.

To quote a certain evil sorceress "Your giving me a headache!"

Good lord would all of you whiny people like a bottle before you go down for your nap??

Efron is a decent actor, the reason he looks worse than he really is, is beause the material he's given isn't all that great so he can only work with what he's given. He also can't get to be a better actor if he's always getting roles with less than great scripts.

I almost hope he does replaced Depp and be in the 4th movie just to spite all of you whiny fanboys/girls. If he does get the role and you don't like it then don't watch the damn movie it's really easy. Who knows he might actually do a really good job if you'd stop and think from a moment and be open minded about it.

To answer Poody's post from page 1 about how he might not have the look *I believe that was the general idea* It's up to the costume makers and makeup artists to make him LOOK like he belongs in that world, and it's up to him to sound and act believeable.

Now if you'll excuse me I'm in a bad mood and have a date with a tub of ice cream

Cherny wrote:To quote a certain evil sorceress "Your giving me a headache!"

Good lord would all of you whiny people like a bottle before you go down for your nap??

How about some cheese to go with their whine/wine?

Cherny wrote:I almost hope he does replaced Depp and be in the 4th movie just to spite all of you whiny fanboys/girls.

Cherny wrote:Now if you'll excuse me I'm in a bad mood and have a date with a tub of ice cream

What kind of ice cream?

I could use a dish of Spumoni right about now. Or Cookie Swirl.

albert

Chernabog_Rocks wrote:To quote a certain evil sorceress "Your giving me a headache!"

Good lord would all of you whiny people like a bottle before you go down for your nap??

Efron is a decent actor, the reason he looks worse than he really is, is beause the material he's given isn't all that great so he can only work with what he's given. He also can't get to be a better actor if he's always getting roles with less than great scripts.

I almost hope he does replaced Depp and be in the 4th movie just to spite all of you whiny fanboys/girls. If he does get the role and you don't like it then don't watch the damn movie it's really easy. Who knows he might actually do a really good job if you'd stop and think from a moment and be open minded about it.

To answer Poody's post from page 1 about how he might not have the look *I believe that was the general idea* It's up to the costume makers and makeup artists to make him LOOK like he belongs in that world, and it's up to him to sound and act believeable.

Now if you'll excuse me I'm in a bad mood and have a date with a tub of ice cream

Welcome to the world of internet fandom, circa 1989 .

Any moment now, Ashton Kutcher is going to jump out and tell us POTC fans we've been punked.

2099net wrote:
The aim of replacing Depp will be to get the costs down (not surprising after the runaway costs of 2 & 3) and Depp's reported pay-packet for part 4 isn't exactly frugal in these times of credit crunch.

The reason why POTC 3 cost $300 million to make wasn't because of Depp's paycheck, but because of the extensive CGI sequences at the end of the film and Disney and Bruckheimer had to pay out of the nose to ILM in order to get the visual effects completed and on time. And they were cutting it close -- I think Verbinski delivered the final product on the second week of May.

I think Depp is in love with the character so much, he'd probably take a pay cut up front in exchange for a backend deal. No telling what his asking price is now since he's a hot property for Disney now.

Scaps wrote:
What kind of ice cream?

I could use a dish of Spumoni right about now. Or Cookie Swirl.

albert

Chocolate Chip Mint

People you can all say Zac is a good actor and it's the material he's given that makes him seem crappy, but isn't the material an actor is offered (or pursues, you don't see him saying "I want to try serious acting" do you?) representative of the abilities of the actor?

And then of course there is the idea that a good actor can make a crappy script less crappy.

But don't forget he's just an actor, one part of many that makes it work. An actor can only do so much if the script isn't up to par, and you need a good director as well to direct you and tell you when your not doing a good job. Obviously he must have some talent or he wouldn't be getting jobs. So while it is mostly up to the actor to do a good job he or she does need the director to help them bring the character to life, only the director can say "Yes that's what I wanted to see" or say "No this isn't working try this".

azul017 wrote:

2099net wrote:
The aim of replacing Depp will be to get the costs down (not surprising after the runaway costs of 2 & 3) and Depp's reported pay-packet for part 4 isn't exactly frugal in these times of credit crunch.

The reason why POTC 3 cost $300 million to make wasn't because of Depp's paycheck, but because of the extensive CGI sequences at the end of the film and Disney and Bruckheimer had to pay out of the nose to ILM in order to get the visual effects completed and on time. And they were cutting it close -- I think Verbinski delivered the final product on the second week of May.

I think Depp is in love with the character so much, he'd probably take a pay cut up front in exchange for a backend deal. No telling what his asking price is now since he's a hot property for Disney now.

Except Depp's reportedly getting a record pay settlement for part 4 already.

I'm sure there's lots of reasons Parts 2 and 3 went staggeringly way over budget - not least the fact that they started filming two films costing hundreds of millions each without finished scripts. Which, let's face it, is just insane. And yet, people here seem to think the same people who allowed this - be they Disney management itself or Verbinski the director or even the writers - are the best choices to carry the "franchise" forward!

Also you're forgetting the current economic climate. Cost savings have to be made in any way possible. Two studios have already turned down Steven Speilberg/Peter Jackson's Tintin film[s]. That's two studios turning away a film by two of cinema's hottest creators, because its too expensive. Universal can't/won't pay for co-production. Paramount want all or nothing (i.e. Speilberg will loose his ownership to the films). There was a time when Universal (who was one of the studios) would have indulged anything from Speilberg just to keep him happy.

Today, we have countries literally going bankrupt. How do you think that will play into overseas box office? The world today is literally totally different than it was just three months or so ago. I'm willing to bet any big budget movie will have to be carefully costed and fully justified. And looking at the cost to takings of the previous Pirates films, the franchise as it stands can't justify it in the current economic climate.

As for Depp, if Disney management was stupid enough not only to sign-off on the existing sequels when they had no final script, but fast track them for shooting in the same circumstances, why does everyone feel that they're not stupid enough to try a film without Depp or without Depp in a major role? It's not as if the series to date has been a cornerstone of brilliant artistic and business decisions... and if anyone quibbles with my use of artistic, the less than satisfactory reviews for parts 2 and 3 back me up.

After all, if Pirates 5 is a flop, they can always advertise Pirates 6 as the "monumental return of Captain Jack" and make it more of an event. As long as Pirates 5 performs adequately, they're probably not missing out on much profit (if any).

Widdi wrote:People you can all say Zac is a good actor and it's the material he's given that makes him seem crappy, but isn't the material an actor is offered (or pursues, you don't see him saying "I want to try serious acting" do you?) representative of the abilities of the actor?

And then of course there is the idea that a good actor can make a crappy script less crappy.

To all extents and purposes Efron is still a child actor - he's not really been given scripts or roles to challenge him as an actor. But he's in the upcoming Me and Orson Wells - I suggest judgement is withheld until that film has a wide release and his performance in it is thrown to the critics. Linklater usually knows what he's doing when it comes to casting, and its already got a well above average score on IMDB
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1175506/

2099net wrote:why does everyone feel that they're not stupid enough to try a film without Depp or without Depp in a major role?

I DO think they are stupid enough. They have to mess with every thing that works!
They can't replace Johnny it won't work, it just won't work!!!

I DO think they are stupid enough. They have to mess with every thing that works!
They can't replace Johnny it won't work, it just won't work!!!

Oh no rabid fanboy on the loose quick catch him!

*whips out elephant gun with tranquilizer dart* shhhhh I'm hunting da fanboys

Not sure if your being serious or not, if you are I have this to say:

They can replace Johnny if they choose to, will it work? You have to wait and find out never judge a book by it's cover for all you know it could turn out pretty decent.

Now chant with me now "I do believe it can work I do, I do, I do"