slave2moonlight wrote:I can see how the music could have been more memorable, but it does its job and doesn't take on a life of its own, so it's just another way to go. I remember reading that in "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade" they played down the "Raiders March" a bit from its use in "Temple." Those identifiable themes can turn the characters into a bit more of cartoon characters, and Nolan's Batman is aiming at a more realistic style. Giving him this theme song (so to speak) that we all think of when we see him will make him less human.
That's an interesting point of view and I understand what you're aiming at, but I'll have to disagree with you on this.
Yes, I agree that the music does its job in many scenes. The two-note "theme" for Batman is actually quite thrilling in certain action scenes, and I understand Zimmer and Newton-Howard's tactic of using it as a "pre-theme" for Batman, because the guy is just starting out his career as the caped crusader. It's just that I would've wanted the composers to take the route David Arnold did in Casino Royale; that is, creating a pre-theme which is relatively complex and which can be used as a foundation for the actual theme to come.
I'm not sure whether the tender theme for piano was Zimmer or Newton-Howard's idea, but it was quite suitable in the scenes where Bruce remembers his past and when some sad scenes take place. This "remembrance theme" was more memorable and more interesting as a theme than the two-note action stuff for Batman himself.
The stuff you said about the Raiders theme refers to its use as tracked music in the movie, and that whole "tracked music" approach is the kind of stuff that I don't particularly like in movies (that is, using music from one movie in another). For example, George Lucas has done this in many of his Star Wars movies, particularly in the Prequel Trilogy (e.g. quite a few bits from the arena battle music in Episode 2 were tracked from Episode 1, and Anakin landing the cruiser in Episode 3 was tracked from Episode 1, to give you some examples). I think the whole tracked music approach is a shame, because it neglects the composer's original version (which is better suited to the scene anyway, because it was composed for that scene) and makes the score seem like a hack'n'slash job.
And as for the use of "identifiable themes", I think they are necessary particularly in larger-than-life movies which epics, superhero movies and the like often tend to be. I like hearing themes for characters, objects, ideas, locations etc. in movies. This kind of leitmotivic approach is important because it helps the music tell the story alongside the movie itself, both complementing one another. Part of the stuff that makes movies like Star Wars and Lord of the Rings memorable is their use of various themes, many of which are quite memorable. The proper use of themes can help the story in various ways such as identifying characters, showing how the characters develop as the themes themselves develop (like we saw in LotR trilogy, particularly its use of the "Fellowship theme"), hinting at things to come (like the great use of "The Imperial March" in "Anakin's Theme" in Episode 1 to show what he'll become) and bringing forth emotions which further enhance the feel of the movie and make us perceive the characters better (part of the reason the tragic scenes in BB were touching was because of the music and particularly that certain sad theme which was played in the background).
In my opinion movies like Batman Begins do need an identifiable theme (preferably more than one; the antagonists do need some kind of themes as well to act as coutnerpoint for the hero's theme, and themes for other characters, ideas etc. would be welcome as well). If done in a corny way I can see how they might make the characters cartoonish, but if they're done in a certain epic and yet human way they show musically what the characters are about, help us establish their presence when they're on screen and also give us a way to live the story through the music (e.g. it's quite easy to know what's happening by just listening to the Star Wars Original Trilogy scores without watching the movie, because the music itself can tell the story): essentially they support the movie and make it more enjoyable.
Superhero movies are really on a league of their own when it comes to the use of themes, and despite the realistic setting there's still the whole history of Batman music not to mention the whole superhero angle (no matter how twisted a superhero Batman is), and that in itself cries out for proper theme(s). No matter how much one looks at it, Batman does deserve more than a two-note theme; despite the realistic take he still becomes a heroic character and thus requires an identifiable theme. He deliberately chooses a symbol of a bat to become more than human in the eyes of criminals, and this is also another reason why Batman deserves a theme to truly show us music-wise what he is. And of course there's the angle of utilizing softer variations of a theme to portray the more human aspect of Bruce Wayne etc. because not every theme has to be a heroic one.
Thankfully Zimmer and Newton-Howard seem to be taking a step into the right direction, because they deliberately introduced an actual theme for Batman at the end of the movie when Batman truly establishes himself as the protector of Gotham (dunno how much they're going to flesh that theme out in the sequel, though, but it'll be interesting to see how things end up music-wise). I'm curious of finding out what kind of a score Zimmer and Newton-Howard compose for the coming sequel, and I hope that it supports the movie better than the score of BB did.
I hope this didn't come out as hostile, because that wasn't my intention. I'm simply trying to say what I think of the subject of music in Batman movies and how important I think the use of leitmotifs is in these kinds of movies.
