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Because he's xenophobic.Sotiris wrote:How can you be so absolute? Anime is not one big homogeneous entity. It is very diverse both in visual style and in subject matter. There are anime that even resemble the Disney look.milojthatch wrote:If you like Japanese animation. I personally can't stand it!
[/quote]Doug Walker wrote:
Sad news: Disney has announced they no longer have plans to make any more hand drawn animated films. I adore hand drawn animation and how far Disney has pushed it over the years. Their art has been a large part of many childhoods, including my own, showing us how to convey great stories, great characters, and great art through animation. They have helped us grow, learn, and imagine beyond what we thought we could imagine. I connect these words to the end of any great artistic phenomenon, "I'll be back when you call me, no need to say good bye.
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I don't like Japanese animation either, and I'm not xenophobic. I just have yet to see any Japanese animation that is anywhere near as fluid and graceful as Disney animation. Also most of their characters tend to have the same face with different hair; even male and female characters have the same face. Though I must admit Disney animation as of late hasn't been too much better about that with Ariel/Rapunzel/Anna. Even then I don't find Ariel and Rapunzel sooo similar- Rapunzel has a thinner face and her eyes are more almond shaped and her lips fuller. Only in the clip art does she have the big round eyes and thin lips of Ariel.Super Aurora wrote:Because he's xenophobic.Sotiris wrote: How can you be so absolute? Anime is not one big homogeneous entity. It is very diverse both in visual style and in subject matter. There are anime that even resemble the Disney look.
Um...thanks? No seriously, I just love it when people give me a label, really makes my day. Golden rule buddy, golden rule!Super Aurora wrote:Because he's xenophobic.Sotiris wrote: How can you be so absolute? Anime is not one big homogeneous entity. It is very diverse both in visual style and in subject matter. There are anime that even resemble the Disney look.
You hit the nail on the head my friend! I just feel like once you'e seen one anime character, you've basically seen them all. I just feel like it's cheep. It also bugged me that the mouths never were in sync with the words coming out of said mouths. I used to think, "Well, it's probably just because it was made for Japanese and was translated to English." Then I saw some titles in Japanese and they still didn't match up with the words! And from what I've seen, it's all like that. I also don't much care for most of the color tones normally used in these films. It's just so drab! And I agree, the movements are just not that fluid.dollover wrote:
I don't like Japanese animation either, and I'm not xenophobic. I just have yet to see any Japanese animation that is anywhere near as fluid and graceful as Disney animation. Also most of their characters tend to have the same face with different hair; even male and female characters have the same face.
Thanks for the suggestion, I may have to try those. For me, Europe has been hit or miss. "The Secret of Kells" I thought was a bit odd, but I found I enjoyed "A Cat in Paris" more then I thought I would. So it's worth looking into, thanks!estefan wrote: Well, if you don't care for anime, the European studios also do plenty of hand-drawn work. If you haven't seen it yet, I highly recommend The Illusionist, which is an absolutely beautiful hand-drawn animated film from France. I also hear the upcoming "Ernest & Celestine" is great.
But that's the style of character design. In a Disney film, all characters are designed similarly as well. They have to fit within one style. Who can honestly tell Ariel's sisters apart?dollover wrote:I should have been more specific. I meant the characters tend to look similar within the same movie;
Speak for yourself. And you dare call yourself a Disney fan. I can recognize each of them instantly on sight.PatrickvD wrote:
But that's the style of character design. In a Disney film, all characters are designed similarly as well. They have to fit within one style. Who can honestly tell Ariel's sisters apart?
And do you know WHY Disney's animation is more fluid besides budget and time wise? Because Disney uses very simple lines and shapes to form the characters in order for them to be animated more fluidly. If you had some details put on them(mostly on clothes and hair lines), it will time more time and difficulty to animate the characters more easily. Look at ANY Disney character and you'll notice how practically all of them have very clean and smoothed lines and shapes. Aladdin is probably best example. Also most anime are tv series, so of course animation wise, the movement is much more choppy in it's movement. But they provide in many some wonder detail especially in background.dollover wrote: I don't like Japanese animation either, and I'm not xenophobic. I just have yet to see any Japanese animation that is anywhere near as fluid and graceful as Disney animation.
dollover wrote:Also most of their characters tend to have the same face with different hair; even male and female characters have the same face.
As of late? This "characters look the same" thing been even back in Walt's days. Katrina and Cindy? Flora and the maid in 101 dalmatian? Can't forget Baloo and Little John(well little John was after Walt but you get the point lol)!dollover wrote:Though I must admit Disney animation as of late hasn't been too much better about that with Ariel/Rapunzel/Anna. Even then I don't find Ariel and Rapunzel sooo similar- Rapunzel has a thinner face and her eyes are more almond shaped and her lips fuller. Only in the clip art does she have the big round eyes and thin lips of Ariel.
I find that hard to believe, coming from you.milojthatch wrote: I'm just not a fan of what I've seen from Japan so far. And yes, I've been exposed to a lot of different anime in my life thus far.
What don't you get? If I have to guess, it probably mostly your ignorance on the culture as you're example on Spirited Away later on in your post gives.milojthatch wrote:I realize it is popular with a lot of people in the US, including animators at Disney and Pixar. Despite that, I honestly have to say: I don't get it.
And that's why said "I don't believe you" when you said:milojthatch wrote:I just feel like once you'e seen one anime character, you've basically seen them all. I just feel like it's cheep
milojthatch wrote:And yes, I've been exposed to a lot of different anime in my life thus far.
What you mean by color tones? As for movement, see my post to dollover.milojthatch wrote:I also don't much care for most of the color tones normally used in these films. It's just so drab! And I agree, the movements are just not that fluid.
The movie is based on Japanese culture and folklore, it's pretty obvious you wouldn't like it because you think it was "odd".milojthatch wrote:I'm also not a fan of the stories told there. I remember watching "Spirited Away" and just feeling that it was so odd. And so much of it is just like that film.
And this is why call bullshit out on you. It's one thing if anime not to your likening. It's completely another saying you "miss" hand drawn-animation and don't count stuff from Japan as it. Whether you care for it or not, it IS hand drawn or 2d style drawn animation. No and, if, or buts. So, when drama queens here get all bawww and butthurt because their "precious" hand-drawn Disney animation isn't coming anytime soon and say "I WANT 2D animation back!!:(" and that someone here present examples OF still existing hand drawn animation and that includes Japan's, don't come in acting like that don't count. It really shows you're ignorance on subject matter.milojthatch wrote:Anyway, I could go on and on, but the point being, I miss hand drawn and don't count the stuff coming out from Japan.
uhh who claim they were as smooth as Disney (except maybe Studio Ghlibi)? You're comparing apple and oranges here. Also a lot of people like anime for it's story content or symbolic themes they have in conveying the message of the movie or show. which leads me to your next point:dollover wrote:I should have been more specific. I meant the characters tend to look similar within the same movie; I know the character styles can range from movie to movie. However, I just watched every single one of those and they just prove my view that Japanese animation is not as fluid. Which one was supposed to show that it's just as smooth as Disney animation now?
That's one of stupidest thing I've heard. Pixar stories are no more original than a particular anime or even Disney, and vise versa. It's all about you create and present that story.dollover wrote:Story wise, I'll admit Japan can be more unique but that does not always mean better to me. And many of Pixar's stories are just as original.
Neal wrote:Yes, all anime looks the same! I cannot stand it! Just look at how cheap and similar all these anime are.
More unique? That's an understatement. You can find anime for every demographic, in almost every genre, theme, and subject matter. Hollywood animation is woefully restricted to family entertainment.dollover wrote:Story wise, I'll admit Japan can be more unique but that does not always mean better to me.
That's what got me interested in anime in the first place.Sotiris wrote:You can find anime for every demographic, in almost every genre, theme, and subject matter. Hollywood animation is woefully restricted to family entertainment.
Animation can do anything yet in Hollywood it's considered a family "genre." whatever you're smoking i want some.SWillie! wrote:To be fair to those who are arguing that all anime looks the same (not agreeing here, just making a point), it is true that a lot of the more mainstream anime, that are more readily available in the US, do often have a very very similar style and tone. Pokemon, Naruto, Ghibli, Dragonball, Cowboy Bebop, etc... do have pretty similar styles. And if this mainstream selection is all that you've been exposed to, it's easy to see why one might make this generalization. Heck, even in the title of one of the videos Neal posted it says "Obscure Anime".
That said, I think it's worth your while go and search out those more obscure examples, because as has already been illustrated, you'll find that "anime" encompasses many more styles and stories than you would think based on what is most popular here in the states.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic. In case you aren't, please get out of my aura. You could have constructed a simple 'I disagree' instead of resorting to questioning my Disney fandom.qindarka wrote:Speak for yourself. And you dare call yourself a Disney fan. I can recognize each of them instantly on sight.PatrickvD wrote:
But that's the style of character design. In a Disney film, all characters are designed similarly as well. They have to fit within one style. Who can honestly tell Ariel's sisters apart?
So you admit Disney animation is more fluid. And not all Disney characters are simple with simple clothing. The Beast was all hair and characters like Hunchback and Cruella had complicated and angular features.Super Aurora wrote:And do you know WHY Disney's animation is more fluid besides budget and time wise? Because Disney uses very simple lines and shapes to form the characters in order for them to be animated more fluidly. If you had some details put on them(mostly on clothes and hair lines), it will time more time and difficulty to animate the characters more easily. Look at ANY Disney character and you'll notice how practically all of them have very clean and smoothed lines and shapes. Aladdin is probably best example. Also most anime are tv series, so of course animation wise, the movement is much more choppy in it's movement. But they provide in many some wonder detail especially in background.dollover wrote: I don't like Japanese animation either, and I'm not xenophobic. I just have yet to see any Japanese animation that is anywhere near as fluid and graceful as Disney animation.
Ok, I will agree that some Disney characters look alike even back then but I notice it way more in Japanese animation, because characters tend to look alike in the same movie. If their hair and clothes are taken away, they would almost be indistinguishable from each other. Almost all the characters in Ranma have the same face. Ashitaka and San look very similar in the face. Other Miyazaki movies have characters that look extremely alike as well. I am not saying it happens with every Japanese animated film ever, because no, I have not seen all of them but the ones I've seen, the lookalike thing really stuck out to me.As of late? This "characters look the same" thing been even back in Walt's days. Katrina and Cindy? Flora and the maid in 101 dalmatian? Can't forget Baloo and Little John(well little John was after Walt but you get the point lol)![/b]
Ok, I didn't even complain about this one but if what you said was true, then the mouths would also look unsynched in live action Japanese movies too. I do not find this to be the case.Actually it is the former. I know Japanese and how to speak in Japanese. The way their mouth move in relation to their speech pattern is completely different from English. That's why you may think "even in Japanese their mouth don't move correctly". You're thinking in terms how you'd say or pronounce the words from an English stand point. English uses emphasize enunciation. It most easily noticeable when you have English improperly pronounce some Japanese words correctly. [/b]
You implied it with your sarcastic remarks in your post with all the links.uhh who claim they were as smooth as Disney (except maybe Studio Ghlibi)? You're comparing apple and oranges here. Also a lot of people like anime for it's story content or symbolic themes they have in conveying the message of the movie or show. which leads me to your next point:
dollover wrote:Story wise, I'll admit Japan can be more unique but that does not always mean better to me. And many of Pixar's stories are just as original.
I never said Pixar was more original than anime or Disney. I said it was JUST AS ORIGINAL, which means at least equally and not necessarily more. I also don't think that just because Japanese animation covers all genres makes their stories more unique, it just means that the medium is being used in a more varied and encompassing way. The uniqueness comes from the story, not the medium. And I do wish that American animation was not relegated to just family fare and in that respect was more like Japanese animation.That's one of stupidest thing I've heard. Pixar stories are no more original than a particular anime or even Disney, and vise versa. It's all about you create and present that story.
Admit what? I never denied this to begin with lol I've always known this. I was calling out on MilojThatch on his ignorance on anime. I labeled him a xenophobic to humor me, but in overall contexts his posts usually when concerning foreign animation products, Japan's especially, give quite an impression that he is one. Whether he really is one or not I can't say for sure. I do know that he is homophobic. That been pointed out numerous times in this forum by other members.dollover wrote: So you admit Disney animation is more fluid.
They're still simple structural lines and still apply to basic overall shapes. The "details" on the example characters you gave are still simplistic.dollover wrote:And not all Disney characters are simple with simple clothing. The Beast was all hair and characters like Hunchback and Cruella had complicated and angular features.
You are right some do have same face syndrome, like pokemon. And usually this applies to more beautiful characters. I currently have this beef on Bleach cause Kubo use to actually draw distinguish faces even on young boys and females. Now they all have the round head round eyes with derp face. but there are series out there where each character is drastically different from one another or that their detail in their looks is well define. But again also have to take in account of the person's drawing style too and that drawing pretty characters(especially when comes to females) some professional artist still adapt the same face syndrome technique because it's faster and easier. Example, my favorite artist and biggest influence, J Scott Campbell, Draws pretty much majority of his girls very similar to one another. Yet despite that, His art is still fantastic and the female characters still come out well done.dollover wrote:Ok, I will agree that some Disney characters look alike even back then but I notice it way more in Japanese animation, because characters tend to look alike in the same movie. If their hair and clothes are taken away, they would almost be indistinguishable from each other.
Almost all the characters in Ranma have the same face. Ashitaka and San look very similar in the face. Other Miyazaki movies have characters that look extremely alike as well. I am not saying it happens with every Japanese animated film ever, because no, I have not seen all of them but the ones I've seen, the lookalike thing really stuck out to me.
No, it wouldn't. Again it also depend on the anime too. I think you're thinking in pokemon's case which yeah their mouth's is shitty to begin with but something like I dunno Berserk or Hokuto no Ken, The mouths move more like how Japanese speak. Like disney animation, they also have their Voice actors do speaking before the animation process and for same reason Disney does it.dollover wrote:Ok, I didn't even complain about this one but if what you said was true, then the mouths would also look unsynched in live action Japanese movies too. I do not find this to be the case.Actually it is the former. I know Japanese and how to speak in Japanese. The way their mouth move in relation to their speech pattern is completely different from English. That's why you may think "even in Japanese their mouth don't move correctly". You're thinking in terms how you'd say or pronounce the words from an English stand point. English uses emphasize enunciation. It most easily noticeable when you have English improperly pronounce some Japanese words correctly. [/b]
what links? I didn't provide any links nor did I make any sarcastic remark to you.dollover wrote:You implied it with your sarcastic remarks in your post with all the links.
dollover wrote:But if that was not what you meant, then I apologize.
dollover wrote: I really was more talking about the Japanese animation style because storywise, they can be very solid and I do enjoy some Japanese animation for their stories. However, my problems with the animation style just detracts from the overall experience. Maybe that's shallow, but that's just how I feel. Any still frame of a Japanese animation might be very beautiful but once it movies, that lesser fluidity just distracts me.
I'm sorry. Was joking but they do tend t get lost in translation over text.PatrickvD wrote:I can't tell if you're being sarcastic. In case you aren't, please get out of my aura. You could have constructed a simple 'I disagree' instead of resorting to questioning my Disney fandom.qindarka wrote: Speak for yourself. And you dare call yourself a Disney fan. I can recognize each of them instantly on sight.
Makes me long for some kind of dislike button.