DVDizzy Forum

Margos wrote:I like that, Enigmawing!

Why so pessimistic, jpanimation? Sure, they might not do too well financially, but for us, the people tracking Disney history as it is being made, we can read the patterns. No matter what the money says, we know that this is something new. The dawning of a new age, in which CG and 2D can live together in harmony, and each will have its days in the sun. Another princess film, another decade... it's history in the making, folks!

I don't see him being pessimistic. Cautious is more like it.

The truth is that even if the patterns are repeating we just don't know if Princess and the Frog will have the same accepted the films I mentioned received in their respective eras. The movie is also facing great adversity. The movie is an old school charmer performing in a stage filled with Pixar epics, Dreamworks movies filled with irony, dark humor and pop culture jokes, a poor economic situation and even pretty sparkly vampires.

It has been criticized for being too old school, and this is what could scare potential viewers away.

True, the other films also faced their adversities, but Princess and the Frog will not have an easy battle.

I could be wrong, but by judging on the success of the merchandising alone (and from a personal opinion I formed several years back) I think the general public is ready for a Disney "princess" film.

How animation enthusiasts feel though is a different story altogether.

I personally think that this will be a huge hit financially, just my opinion. I think there's so much hype about this film, first for its racial nature and for it being 2d, that people will want to go watch it, no matter what the reviews say. I'm not saying people will love, or even like the movie, and I certainly can't say that it will happen, but I think financially, it will do amazing. Knock on wood! I hope I didn't jinx that!

I am also very optimistic for a new golden age, or "New-age Disney" like enigmawing said , and I really think that it could happen since the feature animations that are due to be released within the next couple of years sound like they can do Disney justice.

jpanimation wrote:What a stupidly long off-topic rant about perceived flops but it just kind of irks me to constantly hear them mistakenly being called flops (unless the numbers I have are wrong, in which case I'd like to be presented with the correct numbers).

Bold numbers come from boxofficemojo.com, numbers in parentheses and in question are from www.the-numbers.com.

To be fair jpanimation firstly, I not only used the word perceived (Adj. Perceived - detected by instinct or inference rather than by recognized perceptual cues; "the felt presence of an intruder"; "a sensed presence in the room raised goosebumps on her arms"; "a perceived threat") but put it in quotes to show I didn't agree with the use of the word.

And regardless of the financial facts, Disney itself has presented those two films (and a few others recently) as "disappointing" during its earnings reports. But that probably comes down to unrealistic expectations (which have bedevilled Disney animation ever since The Lion King really) and their hype. So again, it probably comes down to hype and Disney believing its own marketing.

If you're taking umbrage at me selecting and probably picking on Treasure Planet or Brother Bear, I'm sure most regular posters here over the past few years will verify that I personally adore each film (and while I've not seen Princess and the Frog and won't for a long time) I can tell you know, I still expect to like TP and BB more then TP&TF even when I have seen it.

Secondly, there's more than one way to define "flop". It could be financial, creatively or critically. I perceive (note: no quotes) Michael Bay's Transformers to be nothing but a huge flop - nothing, absolutely nothing is even close to satisfactory about that film - its nothing but a huge, expensive tribute to the shallowness and creative void that is Michael Bay. But sadly, it made money. Shed loads of money in fact.

However, while I was saying it doesn't matter if some people on the internet post negative comments about The Princess and the Frog because if it is a good film it will easily rise above them and be recognised as such when it really matters - 5, 10, 15, 20... longer... years from now, hopefully one day everybody will wake up and realise Transformers (and films of that ilk) are worthless wastes of screen time and the film will all but be forgotten a decade from now.

Babaloo wrote:I am also very optimistic for a new golden age, or "New-age Disney" like enigmawing said , and I really think that it could happen since the feature animations that are due to be released within the next couple of years sound like they can do Disney justice.

What? Because most of them are of a fairy-tale leaning?

[sigh]

As cynical as I am (and I admit I am) I find it troubling that we have all this talk of a "Golden Age" of Disney approaching, when all they are doing is looking to the past. I think the 2000's were the Golden Age - a period of Disney Animation even more varied in subject matter and true, creative ideas (even if sometimes the ideas weren't quite executed perfectly - and that's fine, when you experiment you have to accept not everything will be perfect) as the first two or three decades of the Studio when Walt was in charge.

I was hoping the phrase "You don't miss what you've got to its gone" would apply here, but it seems many people here are still keen to go straight back to "The Little Mermaid".

As for merchandise sales equating to popularity. Maybe. Relating to quality? No, not really. Cars has sold more merchandise than any other Pixar film (including the Toy Storys apparently).

Wikipedia wrote:On June 22, 2006 Disney Consumer Products announced that Cars merchandise broke records for retail sales based on a Disney-Pixar product, recording 10-to-1 more volume than Finding Nemo.[22] DCP reports that product expansion will take place in the fall alongside the DVD release of the film. Mattel has announced that Cars toys will continue through 2008 with the release of at least 80 new vehicles. A 36 car pack called "Speedway of the South" will feature most of the race cars seen during the opening race sequence of the film.
Estimates from the New York Daily News indicate that sales of Cars merchandise two weeks out from the release of the film amounted to US$600 million. Estimates put out in November by the Walt Disney Company peg total sales for the brand at around $1 billion.[18]

Not only is Cars generally regarded as the weakest Pixar film, its not even the Pixar film with the biggest box-office.

I haven't seen the movie yet, I will on Wednesday, but just want to ask for those who have seen it, Does it have the Repunzal trailer? Back awhile ago someone here said that it's trailer preview would appear in Frog and Princess movie.

EDIT: Oh never mind, it found out only L.A. and NYC have it out in Nov 25.

It's interesting that nobody has pointed out that The Little Mermaid opened against All Dogs Go to Heaven (on the same day, no less!). At the time, Don Bluth was Disney's biggest competetion has he had experiened big hits with An American Tail and The Land Before Time. The Little Mermaid crushed All Dogs at the box-office. Maybe The Princess & the Frog will do the same with Alvin and the Chipmunks (the only major family film it's competing with next month).

And to add to the comparisons with The Little Mermaid, The Princess and the Frog is also following a live-action/animation hybrid that was very successful and caused a re-interest in hand-drawn animation with the public (Who Framed Roger Rabbit and Enchanted being the films I'm referring to).

As much as we hate CB for begin negative I think fanboy/fangirls (fanpersons?) should be ashamed equally of proclaiming this film to be like the second coming of Jesus.

Somehow by default of begin positive it can't be questioned, but really people, enough with the mindless labels of non existent eras.

When 4+ critical and box office hits happen then you can make all the name tags you want.

I can understand why we shouldn't be too hyped up for a new golden age as much as I would want to see that. But I can't see Tpatf becoming a flop or even underperforming at the box office. I believe there is a motivation out there among Disney fans and normal movie viewers alike for a return to quality Disney animation. People don't have to love the movie to convince Disney to make more 2D flims, they have to make a lot of money off it for Disney to make more.

The 90's Renaissance started after The Little Mermaid made big bucks, and Beauty and the Beast was nominated for film of the year. Aladdin was very successful and The Lion King was the highest grossing animated feature until Finding Nemo. The rest of the movies for that decade were received fairly good. In order to have a golden age, Disney has to make Tpatf, Rapunzel, the new Winnie-the-Pooh movie, and maybe The Snow Queen all big hits.

I have no doubt that this film will be amazing and will be successful. I think Disney is marketing it very well. The movie has people talking! I know plenty of people, both young and old, that are excited to see it. Even guys that will never admit to liking a Disney film other than "Lion King" and "Aladdin" are pretty stoked about The Princess and the Frog.

Super Aurora wrote:I haven't seen the movie yet, I will on Wednesday, but just want to ask for those who have seen it, Does it have the Repunzal trailer? Back awhile ago someone here said that it's trailer preview would appear in Frog and Princess movie.

EDIT: Oh never mind, it found out only L.A. and NYC have it out in Nov 25.

at the LA and NYC Screenings, there's no trailers shown at all.

Sorry 2099net, didn't know you were going to take my rant about the general hatred for Brother Bear and turn it into a personal attack on you. In no way did I intend it that way. I just wasn't sure why Brother Bear, a film that made millions was considered in the same category as Treasure Planet, that lost millions. Brother Bear isn't one of my favorites but it definitely doesn't deserve the bashing it gets (Treasure Planet does, IMO). Sorry you felt you had to defend yourself.

BTW, I also used the word perceived.

As for giving The Princess and the Frog an era, lets call it Post-Post-Renaissance. Seriously, I wasn't being pessimistic, just realistic. Its like crowning Obama's term as a success or failure, with three more years to go. Even if it looks bad now, lets wait and see what happens.

Whatever this new "era" will bring, I don't doubt it'll someday be labeled as such. You can't help but consider it when Disney closed down their studio for several years (something it had been on the brink of at times but had never actually happened before) and reopened it for this film. And I still like my "new-age Disney" term; you've heard it here first folks! I should trademark it.

Overall, critics have liked it so far. The general public has already begun to vote with their dollars through the merchandise. I think it's a fair assumption that this film will do well monetarily, and will only help ensure the future of hand-drawn animation. Now whether or not this film and the ones to follow will truly make a positive impact on the face of animation and films in general has yet to be seen.

And maybe it's shallow on my part, but I still can't contain my excitement that hand-drawn is back. But I feel entitled, even if I end up not caring for this film. Animation has always been a big part of my life, and the hand-drawn films by Disney and other studios is something many of us grew up on.

Even if a lot of people here don't care for this film, you've gotta admit its possible success may open the doors for future potential hand-drawn Disney classics; that's why people are talking about the beginning of a new era here.

Poody wrote:

Super Aurora wrote:I haven't seen the movie yet, I will on Wednesday, but just want to ask for those who have seen it, Does it have the Repunzal trailer? Back awhile ago someone here said that it's trailer preview would appear in Frog and Princess movie.

EDIT: Oh never mind, it found out only L.A. and NYC have it out in Nov 25.

at the LA and NYC Screenings, there's no trailers shown at all.

When I went to the Ziegfeld Theatre today, they showed trailers for Toy Story 3, Alice in Wonderland, The Last Song and Oceans.

^Err I meant to say in LA

Looks like PATF, which goes into wide release Dec 11 (my bad earlier - thought release date was just before Thanksgiving) , did very well at the two theaters screening it; Well over $1 million total for the Thanksgiving Holiday.

If you go to Disney's "For Your Consideration" page at http://disneystudiosawards.com/, you'll see that they have chosen the four songs they are submitting for the Oscars:

"Down in New Orleans"
"Almost There"
"Ma Belle Evangeline"
"Never Knew I Needed"

They also consider the screenplay to be original, so it will be competing for placement in that category (though the Academy will likely give the lone animated screenplay nod to Up).

Personally, "Dig a Little Deeper" and "When We're Human" are my favourite songs in the soundtrack, but oh well. "Down in New Orleans" and "Almost There" are wonderful and "Ma Belle Evangeline" is sweet. Ne-Yo's song is my least favourite and the one I typically skip when listening to the soundtrack, so I would prefer two others get in over that one (preferably "New Orleans" and "Almost There").

I also find it a little dis-heartening that Disney isn't campaigning it for Best Picture. With ten nominees, I think it stands a good chance at getting in. Certainly better than The Proposal. Though, Ponyo also isn't getting a Best Picture campaign. So, it seems that Disney is setting their Best Picture hopes mainly on Up.

estefan wrote: Though, Ponyo also isn't getting a Best Picture campaign. So, it seems that Disney is setting their Best Picture hopes mainly on Up.

Disney is, or John Lasseter and his Pixar cronies are. Like some of you weren't thinking that...

I think is unfair and very strange that Disney is pushing "A Christmas Carol" (along with Up) for a Best Picture nomination and not Princess and the Frog or Ponyo. And Up i can understand but choosing A Christmas Carol over Ponyo & PatF is ridiculous.

Well, "A Christmas Carol" was very good.....

Many critics said that it was most probably the GREATEST screen version of the story to date...