DVDizzy Forum

Goliath wrote:

Lazario wrote:The meaning of music is subjective. Look at how many people were moved to tears by Christina Aguilera's "Beautiful." Based on that, you had better believe that song meant something... to some people. For others, she was still the same tart who just got finished dancing in mud and hoochie-ing around in chaps in a boxing ring (there was mud in one of her videos- right? Who here's an Xtina fan?).

That may very well be, but it's a simple pop song. It's a very standard ballad. Well performed, well executed, yes. But there's nothing about it that makes it stand out from the rest of whatever there is on the charts. Obviously, that's what I was going at. Let me put it this way: music as original, groud-breaking and experimental as that of Pink Floyd, The Beatles, Bob Dylan, Jefferson Airplane etc. would nowadays not be in the mainstream. It would not be on the hit charts. It would be 'underground' or 'indie'. That was my point. It's all the same kind of pop nowadays.

Well, no one would be a greater expert on what you obviously mean than you are. (That came off mighty insulting, by the way, and I did nothing to warrant the implication; I know what you meant, that doesn't mean I can't disagree with it.)

But no matter what you say, you can not cancel out the fact that people make up their own meaning. Use any words you want, but a lot of people disagree that "same sounding" music can't be artistic. Not that most people even judge it that way. If I was a slave to rock music too, I might agree with you (I don't even know who are the big names right now). But if pop were dead, there wouldn't be acts like Goldfrapp. And say what you want, but they're proof that music nowadays is still artistic. If anything about your use of the label artistic means DAMN good. (By the way, I stumbled into a forum that were having one hell of a discussion behind the meaning to their "A&E"... :

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That's artistic, and no one can deny it. If they put half that much thought into the lyrics for their other songs, maybe you should care about them. The lyrics:

"It's a blue, bright blue Saturday, hey hey
And the pain has started to slip away, hey hey

I'm in a backless dress
On a pastel ward that's shining
Think I want you still
But it may be pills at work

Do you really wanna know how I was dancing on the floor
I was trying to phone you when I'm crawling out that door
I'm amazed at you the things you say that you don't do
Why don't you ring

I was feeling lonely, feeling blue
Feeling like I needed you
Like I've woken up surrounded by me
A & E

How did I get to accident and emergency
All I wanted was you to take me out high

I was feeling lonely, feeling blue
Feeling like I needed you
Like I hoped you'd call and hoped you'd see me
A & E" .)

Addicted to Love - Florence + the Machine

and

Lungs - Florence + the Machine


Ever since I heard Dog Days Are Over on Glee, I've been pretty obsessed with Florence.

Thanks to the bodily organ imagery;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5UNLxyAKvA

Bob Dylan- Idiot Wind

Wow. This is THE definite song for every man that got divorced/dumped and who wants to get revenge on his ex-wife/girlfriend. It's one big, harsh, hard, verbal smack-down of a former lover. Dylan totally destroys his ex-wife both in lyrics and tone, filled with anger and rage. Very impressive.

Lazario wrote:But no matter what you say, you can not cancel out the fact that people make up their own meaning. Use any words you want, but a lot of people disagree that "same sounding" music can't be artistic.

If you know what I mean, like you say, then why do you keep interpreting/explaining my words completely the wrong way? Like I said: I'm not talking about "meaning" in the way that "everybody makes their own meaning". You know that very well, so why keep going on about that? I was simply saying experimental, ground-breaking music was mainstream in the 1960's and wouldn't be nowadays. I don't care how much you like all those blonde-haired, over-produced, under-talented, over-hyped, over-styled, playbacking girls who inhabit the top 40 charts, they're not comparable to the real artistry that was mainstream in the 1960's. And that's a fact.

Goliath wrote:

Lazario wrote:But no matter what you say, you can not cancel out the fact that people make up their own meaning. Use any words you want, but a lot of people disagree that "same sounding" music can't be artistic.

If you know what I mean, like you say, then why do you keep interpreting/explaining my words completely the wrong way? Like I said: I'm not talking about "meaning" in the way that "everybody makes their own meaning". You know that very well, so why keep going on about that?

Because I don't believe you. And no, I don't think I've misread you either. I know what you're saying and I don't agree with it. Not that I disrespect the music of the 60's in any way, but the 60's are over and there are plenty of people already dedicated to it to keep it alive (bless their hearts). Mostly people who grew up with that music and so, what's wrong with anyone praising the music they grew up with? In fact, I'm of the opinion (and Peaches, a musical genius, agrees with me) that the spirit of music doesn't always believe the often disturbing political majority-mores of the time it's made in. For example- jesus, look at all the gender-bending that we find in music during conservative rule, both lyrically and in live performances / music videos, etc. There are other examples but I don't have the time. To shorthand: just because the 60's was this beautiful time of cultural belief in peace and love doesn't mean it's the only time music could ever be relevant as a social statement to the people listening to it.

The line between Top 40's hits and underground or indie nowadays are gone. How many fans of Paramore, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Santogold, Robyn, and countless rap and hip-hop acts would it take for you to see that? Music fans are not robots. Lists do not program them. They don't program us. They don't even program the times we live in. In fact, where do your replies even account for the phenomenon of iTunes / internet downloading? In short, the listeners who dictate these lists don't even know or care what's popular right now. So, just because a majority of people might share a like for one song, that doesn't mean those people think the performer is as good as Bob Dylan. If they weighed these lists you speak of for: how many times 40 songs were heard, downloaded, etc(.) versus every other song (throughout music history: present and past) people were hearing, downloading, etc(.)-ing to... which side of the scale would be heavier? Therefore: exactly how does what's on the Top 40 matter??

I wouldn't say you're old-fashioned. Idealistic suits you more. But if you really believe everything you're saying, you have no connection to music as an artform past the 60's. I mean: you just don't get it.

Oh, and: what do you think about Goldfrapp? Did you even know that the album "A&E" belongs to has a HUGE folk influence to it?? Did you even listen to the track? Have you heard it before? Have you heard any Goldfrapp before in your life? How do you know you don't care about them if you've never heard them before? Did you ever check out their debut album Felt Mountain- you might really appreciate it. You've got me dangling on a string here, so how do I know what to say? Don't I deserve to know more about your current musical background if you're going to engage me in discussion about "Nowadays"' music? Based on what little I know about your musical opinions, can you blame me that I've had to remind you time and time again that the sound is every bit as important to people as the message of a song, if not moreso (how the hell do you explain the popularity of heavy metal??).

Lazario wrote:

Goliath wrote:If you know what I mean, like you say, then why do you keep interpreting/explaining my words completely the wrong way? Like I said: I'm not talking about "meaning" in the way that "everybody makes their own meaning". You know that very well, so why keep going on about that?

Because I don't believe you.

Oh, crap, not this shit again...

Discussion closed, Lazario.

Edit: On second thought, I need to add something to clear up some of my earlier posts. I may have worded some things carelessly. I didn't mean to say that no artistic/original/creative music is being made nowadays. That obviously would be a silly thing to say. I also didn't mean to say that no really good music ever makes it to the top charts. I listen to a lot of it myself, and I most certainly didn't get stuck in the 1960's or only listen to Mr. Dylan. I just wanted to make the point that a lot of what was mainstream back then would never be accepted in the mainstream nowadays and that, generally speaking, the music in the top charts today is more like the run-off-the-mill, 'safe' music of the 1940's and 50's than of the daring 1960's and 70's.

Goliath wrote:Oh, crap, not this shit again...

How ironic - that's the exact same thing I said about your posts before I replied.

Amy and Sequel were just saying they enjoy 60's music too. That's not your cue to launch into another one of your freaking tired lectures about how you know everything about music. Ever wondered why nobody listens to your endless prattling on about Bob Dylan? You should.

Lazario wrote:Amy and Sequel were just saying they enjoy 60's music too. That's not your cue to launch into another one of your freaking tired lectures about how you know everything about music. Ever wondered why nobody listens to your endless prattling on about Bob Dylan? You should.

I'll talk about any damn topic I wish, and I'll decide when and where I'll talk. For all I care, I'll ramble on about Bob Dylan in every goddamn thread. If you can't stand that, you know what? Too bad for you. Just pipe down and don't read it. If you can't stand my opinions, that's your problem. If you want to become UD Führer and tell other people where and when and about what they should talk, you'll have to become a moderator first. Otherwise, just zip it. Oh, and your attempts to make it look like you who does or doesn't read my posts is pathetic. Not as pathetic as your novel-lenght "I know you, I know everybody on this forum, I can read your mind and speak for you and I know your meaning better than you yourself" psychobabble, but still...

Anyway, to derail from the fighting, I've been listening to Lungs nonstop along with Petula Clark's Downtown. My mom told me that Downtown was the first song that she knew of to become "famous." It's an awesome song. I should look into some of her other songs.

Missy featuring Ciara and Fatman Scoop - "Lose Control" :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrE5lrjBryI (Sadly edited, but it's free)

I don't know what I was thinking but I can't believe I ignored this for 6 years! (And why hasn't Missy released an album since '05?!)

After catching Disney's Meet the Robinsons on TV last Sunday, I've been listening to the soundtrack over and over again.

This:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fShsOfQBRQI

A rap ditty done in promotion of this guy's mini-mall like flea market warehouse.

Iron Maiden- "Flight of Icarus" from the Live After Death concert movie.

I was poking around for fun on YouTube looking for movie quotes for a Polls & Games game and found this... :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wwilCs4Jqg

The missing word in the title is "Trooper." I swear I didn't know Sarah Brightman was a professional singer in the 70's? I thought she was one of those little new age types that just tumbled out of the 90's woodwork after Enigma and Enya made it big.

Seagull Screaming Kiss Her Kiss Her - "No Telephone"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le9blJ9-xkw

Bob Dylan- One of Us Must Know (Sooner or Later)

Powerpuff Girls - "Love Makes the World Go Round"

Tom Petty- "Don't Do Me Like That"

Avaitor wrote:Tom Petty- "Don't Do Me Like That"

Tom Petty rules (as do The Heartbreakers).

Lazario wrote:

Avaitor wrote:Tom Petty- "Don't Do Me Like That"

Tom Petty rules (as do The Heartbreakers).

Yes sir.

The Beach Boys- "I Just Wasn't Made for These Times"