DVDizzy Forum

Wish was racially accurate

Spain is not white and has never been white

Lavendergolden wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2025 1:16 pm I heard about Gigantic. It looked very generic and I didn't understand why they changed the setting from England when giant stories like Jack and the Beanstalk (also Jack the Giant-Killer) have always been very English in nature. That felt more like cultural appropriation to me because it's one thing to change the setting of a story if the setting isn't that relevant to the story. But it's another when that story is heavily tied to that country's culture like these giant stories are to England. It would be like making King Arthur Italian or Mulan Korean. So I'm glad that film was cancelled because it seemed like Disney just wanted diversity for diversity's sake without it being the best fit.

Interesting! I didnt really knew Giant stories were a cultural thing for Englisch culture! The only excuse i could give them Was that it was set during the age of exploration, but i mean England had left an impression in that era too, sooo...meh

I personally dont really mind them changing settings, i mean they were doing it since the 90s, would be kinda weird to have 2 chinese WDAS movies in the 90s with Mulan and Aladdins original setting, so im not complaining as long as the story, elements or character descriptions dont depend on specific orientation. Thats probably also why they changed Nightingale from China to India too! They GOTTA do an indian fairytale

Lavendergolden wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2025 1:16 pm don't think it's just a non-white thing because Tangled was just a blending of European cultures. I frankly wouldn't call that Germany because there's nothing explicitly German about that setting.

Youre right about the setting, which is more french inspired with that island castle, but there are a few hints that its german, the word "Rapunzel" was apparently some old german vegetable, so the name could indicate the relation, although the word has no significance in Germany anymore aside from the fairytale.
Also Flynn says "Gesundheit" (Bless you) in the original english dub Also, speaking of Rapunzel, i love your Pfp Lavendergolden! Barbie Rapunzel is literally one of my fav Barbie movies and a way better adaptation than Tangled, its more grounded and gets the whole execution and atmosphere right! Its actually funny how much they have still in common: The purple dress, the secret princess identity, the lizard friend, their love for painting...

I guess Mattel tried to avoid disney properties so they fished out unexplored fairytales, same with Dreamworks, only that Dreamworks picked the ones with purpose that were announced or rumored to be developed at WDAS so they can make fun of them beforehand, like Rumplestilskin (2010) and most famously with their depiction of Rapunzel, which wasnt only the villain in Shrek 3 (2007), but also secretly bald, lol.

Lavendergolden wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2025 1:16 pm Honestly if they're going to twist it so that Don Quixote is a girl (girl power) or a villain, I'd rather they not do it.

Yeah me too, im not tooo familiar with the whole Details, but the overall story and characters of the book seemed fine to me, it would be cool to have an older protagonist who has Hallucinatons (Gen Z would relate because were delulu lol)  and fights random objects, which is ironic because thats the reason why it got cancelled in the first place:

“We remember very well that [Disney film executive] Peter Schneider and [Disney animation president] Tom Schumacher were both fond of our project,” Paul Brizzi says. “Let’s not forget that they allowed us to work on it for two years! But when they finally decided to talk to the CEO of the company [Michael Eisner], they got the answer that an old man cannot be a hero for our younger audience.” This, coupled with Eisner’s reluctance to risk another animated feature based on a classical novel after Hunchback, stopped the project dead. The Brizzis would stay at Disney for a few years, working on Tarzan and other projects, but eventually departed the studio in 2001.

https://www.polygon.com/entertainment/2 ... the-screen

Eisner looked pretty stupid after UPs success i guess.

You could do really fun visual gags with it. Maybe they can give Don Quijote D.I.D, or making him aware that he snaps out, similar to Moon Knight, only that Don Quijotes alter ego sees the monsters and colorful dangerous World (which is maybe still in his head), so he wouldnt stay an idiot for the majority. But I dont mind making him delusional fulltime, would still be fun, in the veins of "CORNHOLIO"

Also, this would have been the changes they would have made:

According to the brothers, the story for the film focused on Sancho Panza finding a piece of a sword in a pile of junk on his farm, and his adventures with Don Quixote to reunite this relic with its owner, Charlemagne. The Brizzis wanted to show the two sides of Don Quixote: the fantasy of the golden knight attacking the giants, and the reality of the old man stuck in the blades of the windmill. To do this, they knew they needed another character for the audience to relate to, someone to ground the elaborate fantasies of the knight and bring him back to reality.

“We developed the role of Carrasco who, in the novel, was the man who brought Don Quixote back to reality at the end of the book,” Paul Brizzi says. “We made him a kind of a psychiatrist who wants to cure Don Quixote. So he joins the odd couple for the quest under the pretext of reporting his exploits as a knight. When, actually, he wants to compile a thesis about craziness and become a brilliant doctor at the academy. But during this adventure, Carrasco is under the spell of the old man who teaches him that the dream is stronger than rational thinking. So Carrasco becomes Don Quixote’s spiritual son and his advocate when people want to lock him up.”

The article also has a few concept art pieces of (shirtless daddy) Quijote. Jokes aside, he doesnt look as old as hes normally depicted there, Don Quijote is always depicted as some 60 something year old so i dont know what the whole drama with his age would have been here, in the novel hes described as someone in his 50s, and these days thats not really that old anymore. He looks like mid 40s in those sketches. petition that we need more daddy characters in WDAS

The animation style was set to continue the more mature look that Disney had developed on The Hunchback of Notre Dame and Pocahontas, with characters having more realistic human proportions and more dramatic expressions. Other artists at Disney, such as John Watkiss, Sandro Cleuzo, and Ken Duncan, would submit or be asked to submit character designs, but many of these, which have since surfaced, went unused.

If we would have more concept art or storyboards from that, to see the vibes and potential, especially the "darker edgier" things they planned, i guess i would be more confident to say that this would probably be the most unfortunate WDAS cancellation. Fraidy Cat still holds the crown.

Also Lavendergolden, i love your fairytale knowledge and deep cultural Research and understanding for such things!

The Disneynerd wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2025 5:01 am

Lavendergolden wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2025 1:16 pm I heard about Gigantic. It looked very generic and I didn't understand why they changed the setting from England when giant stories like Jack and the Beanstalk (also Jack the Giant-Killer) have always been very English in nature. That felt more like cultural appropriation to me because it's one thing to change the setting of a story if the setting isn't that relevant to the story. But it's another when that story is heavily tied to that country's culture like these giant stories are to England. It would be like making King Arthur Italian or Mulan Korean. So I'm glad that film was cancelled because it seemed like Disney just wanted diversity for diversity's sake without it being the best fit.

Interesting! I didnt really knew Giant stories were a cultural thing for Englisch culture! The only excuse i could give them Was that it was set during the age of exploration, but i mean England had left an impression in that era too, sooo...meh

I personally dont really mind them changing settings, i mean they were doing it since the 90s, would be kinda weird to have 2 chinese WDAS movies in the 90s with Mulan and Aladdins original setting, so im not complaining as long as the story, elements or character descriptions dont depend on specific orientation. Thats probably also why they changed Nightingale from China to India too! They GOTTA do an indian fairytale

Lavendergolden wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2025 1:16 pm don't think it's just a non-white thing because Tangled was just a blending of European cultures. I frankly wouldn't call that Germany because there's nothing explicitly German about that setting.

Youre right about the setting, which is more french inspired with that island castle, but there are a few hints that its german, the word "Rapunzel" was apparently some old german vegetable, so the name could indicate the relation, although the word has no significance in Germany anymore aside from the fairytale.
Also Flynn says "Gesundheit" (Bless you) in the original english dub Also, speaking of Rapunzel, i love your Pfp Lavendergolden! Barbie Rapunzel is literally one of my fav Barbie movies and a way better adaptation than Tangled, its more grounded and gets the whole execution and atmosphere right! Its actually funny how much they have still in common: The purple dress, the secret princess identity, the lizard friend, their love for painting...

I guess Mattel tried to avoid disney properties so they fished out unexplored fairytales, same with Dreamworks, only that Dreamworks picked the ones with purpose that were announced or rumored to be developed at WDAS so they can make fun of them beforehand, like Rumplestilskin (2010) and most famously with their depiction of Rapunzel, which wasnt only the villain in Shrek 3 (2007), but also secretly bald, lol.

Lavendergolden wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2025 1:16 pm Honestly if they're going to twist it so that Don Quixote is a girl (girl power) or a villain, I'd rather they not do it.

Yeah me too, im not tooo familiar with the whole Details, but the overall story and characters of the book seemed fine to me, it would be cool to have an older protagonist who has Hallucinatons (Gen Z would relate because were delulu lol)  and fights random objects, which is ironic because thats the reason why it got cancelled in the first place:

“We remember very well that [Disney film executive] Peter Schneider and [Disney animation president] Tom Schumacher were both fond of our project,” Paul Brizzi says. “Let’s not forget that they allowed us to work on it for two years! But when they finally decided to talk to the CEO of the company [Michael Eisner], they got the answer that an old man cannot be a hero for our younger audience.” This, coupled with Eisner’s reluctance to risk another animated feature based on a classical novel after Hunchback, stopped the project dead. The Brizzis would stay at Disney for a few years, working on Tarzan and other projects, but eventually departed the studio in 2001.

https://www.polygon.com/entertainment/2 ... the-screen

Eisner looked pretty stupid after UPs success i guess.

You could do really fun visual gags with it. Maybe they can give Don Quijote D.I.D, or making him aware that he snaps out, similar to Moon Knight, only that Don Quijotes alter ego sees the monsters and colorful dangerous World (which is maybe still in his head), so he wouldnt stay an idiot for the majority. But I dont mind making him delusional fulltime, would still be fun, in the veins of "CORNHOLIO"

Also, this would have been the changes they would have made:

According to the brothers, the story for the film focused on Sancho Panza finding a piece of a sword in a pile of junk on his farm, and his adventures with Don Quixote to reunite this relic with its owner, Charlemagne. The Brizzis wanted to show the two sides of Don Quixote: the fantasy of the golden knight attacking the giants, and the reality of the old man stuck in the blades of the windmill. To do this, they knew they needed another character for the audience to relate to, someone to ground the elaborate fantasies of the knight and bring him back to reality.

“We developed the role of Carrasco who, in the novel, was the man who brought Don Quixote back to reality at the end of the book,” Paul Brizzi says. “We made him a kind of a psychiatrist who wants to cure Don Quixote. So he joins the odd couple for the quest under the pretext of reporting his exploits as a knight. When, actually, he wants to compile a thesis about craziness and become a brilliant doctor at the academy. But during this adventure, Carrasco is under the spell of the old man who teaches him that the dream is stronger than rational thinking. So Carrasco becomes Don Quixote’s spiritual son and his advocate when people want to lock him up.”

The article also has a few concept art pieces of (shirtless daddy) Quijote. Jokes aside, he doesnt look as old as hes normally depicted there, Don Quijote is always depicted as some 60 something year old so i dont know what the whole drama with his age would have been here, in the novel hes described as someone in his 50s, and these days thats not really that old anymore. He looks like mid 40s in those sketches. petition that we need more daddy characters in WDAS

The animation style was set to continue the more mature look that Disney had developed on The Hunchback of Notre Dame and Pocahontas, with characters having more realistic human proportions and more dramatic expressions. Other artists at Disney, such as John Watkiss, Sandro Cleuzo, and Ken Duncan, would submit or be asked to submit character designs, but many of these, which have since surfaced, went unused.

If we would have more concept art or storyboards from that, to see the vibes and potential, especially the "darker edgier" things they planned, i guess i would be more confident to say that this would probably be the most unfortunate WDAS cancellation. Fraidy Cat still holds the crown.

Also Lavendergolden, i love your fairytale knowledge and deep cultural Research and understanding for such things!

I like the age of exploration connection but even as you said, the English were as involved as the Spanish. Making a Jack and the Beanstalk type movie set in Spain would be like setting Don Quixote in England.

The thing about Aladdin is that it was set in China in the sense that China was used as a foreign country to give listeners and readers the idea that this story took place in a kingdom far away. But nothing about Aladdin is intrinsically Chinese. The names are all Arabian, the royal titles of the characters, the lore and legends. At most, some storybooks will illustrate the characters looking ethnically Chinese and wearing Chinese clothes but everything about the story is so Arabian that it would feel out of place to set it in China. It's clearly just to give the story some flavor to differentiate it from other Arabian Nights stories but this is why most adaptations just keep it in Middle East and why China has never claimed Aladdin as their own story. In fact, Disney had a Sinbad script which I've read posted here. It was going to be set in India so it does seem like Disney didn't want to set another film exactly in the same setting as Aladdin.

Also interesting is that the opera Turandot is set in China and mostly associated with Chinese culture. But Turandot was actually an Arabian Nights character. Whereas Aladdin and Sinbad are from One Thousand and One Nights, Turandot was from One Thousand and One Days. I think it's a Persian story but for some reason, the opera changed the setting to China even though Turandot is not a Chinese name at all.

Yeah, it seems The Emperor's Nightingale was changed to India because they wanted a film set there and they had already done China. But nothing about the story is really connected to India whereas Disney already had done The Jungle Book which I believe is very popular in India still since the remake made so much money there.

I think the original Rapunzel script, before it became Tangled, was set in France. I've seen the concept art and it had a French flavor including the island castle inspired by Mont-Saint-Michel. Tangled got rid of the French setting but kept the Mont-Saint-Michel inspiration for the castle. But the actual castle itself became less French in design. The only things really German in the final Tangled are the Rapunzel and Gothel names and only because those were retained over from the original fairy tale. Rapunzel is the German word for rampion I believe, a type of lettuce. Even that has nothing to do with Rapunzel's name in Tangled so it's really just kept over for name recognition. I'm so glad to see someone else who loves Barbie as Rapunzel! It's my favorite Rapunzel adaptation although we don't have too many for some reason. I think it captures the charm and feeling of the original fairy tale better than Tangled like keeping a prince and having Rapunzel trapped in the tower for most of the movie. I also think Disney secretly did copy from Barbie's version for all the reasons you listed like the purple dress, stolen princess premise, and painting. They saw it succeeded and took what elements they could.

Mattel wanted to make a Barbie movie on Sleeping Beauty. It was to complete their fairy tale Tchaikovsky trilogy of Nutcracker, Swan Lake, and Sleeping Beauty. There's even a demo reel of the movie online. Disney stopped it from happening. They trademarked Aurora's name from the ballet so Barbie could not make the ballet into a movie since they couldn't use Aurora's name. How crazy is that? I didn't know Disney was making a Rumpelstiltskin which is why DreamWorks used him as the villain in their last Shrek. I didn't realize they used Rapunzel in Shrek 3 because Disney was using her as well.

Thank you so much for all those links and quotes and information about Disney's Don Quixote. I knew Walt had tried to make it several times but this is a first for me learning so much was done on a 90s adaptation. I can see why Michael Eisner was reluctant about a geriatric leading man. Children's stories usually don't include old people as main characters. There's a feeling that children will relate better to children or teens, which is also why young adult characters are always in their teens. I think another reason why The Emperor's New Groove didn't work because Pacha was too middle-aged and married to be relatable for kids. Most old people are either absent parents, mentor figures (who have to die so the actual kid protagonist can save the day on their own), or villains. I know Disney got a lot of backlash from some groups representing elder people saying that Disney was villainizing old age since all their prominent villains are old. I think this may also be why Disney doesn't do classic villains anymore since so many groups get offended. Like how the last James Bond movie got in trouble for giving the villain a scar. And Up, like you said, was an outlier because that's not typical for animation to feature a character like Carl as the lead. I wonder if this is also why that concept art of Don Quixote mostly has him look younger and more muscular. Strangely to me he almost looks villainous, like a more buffed up version of Jafar with that crazy facial hair. Did they age him down in concept designs on purpose?

I do think it's interesting that Eisner said no to Don Quixote because he didn't want more classic novels adapted after Hunchback, but then the article even mentions that those creators went to work on Tarzan next. And Tarzan is also a classic novel. Maybe Tarzan was made an exception for because it's one of the most filmed properties of all time. I guess Quasimodo was already a departure from the typical Disney protagonist so it was felt too daring to do another weird choice like Don Quixote who is older and crazy. What a shame though based on what I'm seeing here.

Aww thanks, that's so kind of you to say. It means a lot coming from you because I love your posts and how much information you share that's always so entertaining along with your funny and witty comments.

Lavendergolden wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2025 7:41 am I do think it's interesting that Eisner said no to Don Quixote because he didn't want more classic novels adapted after Hunchback, but then the article even mentions that those creators went to work on Tarzan next. And Tarzan is also a classic novel. Maybe Tarzan was made an exception for because it's one of the most filmed properties of all time. I guess Quasimodo was already a departure from the typical Disney protagonist so it was felt too daring to do another weird choice like Don Quixote who is older and crazy. What a shame though based on what I'm seeing here.

Yeah i guess because Tarzan is more like the "cool boys" flick in the veins of Lion King that went even further by abondening the idea of being a musical with princesses or the fairytalish feeling, with a male protagonist who is known to be some sort of Action hero surviver, not someone boys would instantly relate to, but what they probably look up to and percieve as cool and badass. And it worked... 3rd biggest Box office WDAS hit in the 90s after Aladdin and LK. Also, the story of Tarzan is pretty well known and adapted as you said

Lavendergolden wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2025 7:41 am I didn't know Disney was making a Rumpelstiltskin which is why DreamWorks used him as the villain in their last Shrek. I didn't realize they used Rapunzel in Shrek 3 because Disney was using her as well.

Dreamworks was a more obvious rival, as they took their abondened Sinbad idea (which i still love) and especially since Rapunzel was expected to be WDASs breakout hit in the mid 2000s, so Dreamworks making her the villain would only give viewers a bad aftertaste for upcoming Tangled. Also Rumplestilskin was mostly rumored to be something at WDAS, most prominantly something called "Uncle Stilskin", making Rumple the unusual hero who learns the meaning of family in the veins of Stitch, which Dreamworks prevented again by making Rumplestilskin the main villain in Shrek 4. But i dont mind them because the movie was quite sincere and Rumple is a great villain! https://youtu.be/1IaDQdo8x1I?feature=shared https://youtu.be/tqNPCWE2V2o?feature=shared

Disney did still treat Mattel as some competition with their Barbie movies (it was so dumb of Mattel not releasing Nutcracker 2001 theatrically, the Animation was good for that time and something way better than Jimmy Neutron, which got an Oscar nomination for some unknown reason, perhaps it could have been a decent global success, especially since 3d was rising) as Disney did some parallels, as im realizing now that Little Mermaid 3s plot basically is Barbies 12 Dancing Princesses, replace the Dancing with singing and its basically the same. Tho 12 DP is by far superior.

Lavendergolden wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2025 7:41 am Mattel wanted to make a Barbie movie on Sleeping Beauty. It was to complete their fairy tale Tchaikovsky trilogy of Nutcracker, Swan Lake, and Sleeping Beauty. There's even a demo reel of the movie online

But i thought it was for a doll commercial?? You mean this one right?https://youtu.be/bbQ6YgMuzWs?si=uXPPQrc_M0iXIqzH  https://youtu.be/J7_1S47Sio0?feature=shared funny how the Animation looked 10 times better in Nutcracker, i think Barbie looked the realest and the best there, especially since she had individual hairstrands while later on she only has one chunk of hair.also i love how bitter the ending is and that she even decided to stay there while the Ratking ruined their love at the end https://youtu.be/uISM6GXb_M8?feature=shared

Yeah its not hard to love the old classic Barbie movies! This Rapunzel is also high up, as i liked the change that she constantly secretly goes out for a short time and returns quickly back before Gothel arrives. They changed it from the prince having to visit her in the tower to Rapunzel having to secretly sneak out to meet him again. One thing that bothered me however was the abscence of hair usage, no hairclimbing whatsover, especially the scene where the girl fell in the well and Rapunzel reached her hand out while she easily could have used her long hair....Also Gothels defeat in this one is so clever and iconic, with her setting up her own trap,  but I guess Shelley Duvalls Fairytale Theaters Rapunzel takes the cake for best adaptation! The characters drive and backgrounds are so well crafted out, i also like how this Rapunzel has no idea of men. Another Rapunzel movie i liked growing up, while not being an official or completed version, is the animated "Rapunzel Nabunzel" i loveeee the humour in this one! The pacing and the switch from animation to animatic is sometimes a bit irratating but its selfmade after all so its fine. Also its not complete. Video is like 90 mins long but its just half of the finished material. https://youtu.be/_xXf7QDqxR4?si=rMyr6Td7zc2Rg4P4

Lavendergolden wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2025 7:41 am I can see why Michael Eisner was reluctant about a geriatric leading man. Children's stories usually don't include old people as main characters. There's a feeling that children will relate better to children or teens, which is also why young adult characters are always in their teens. I think another reason why The Emperor's New Groove didn't work because Pacha was too middle-aged and married to be relatable for kids. Most old people are either absent parents, mentor figures (who have to die so the actual kid protagonist can save the day on their own), or villains.

Yeah its just annoying that its getting normalized, having characters always young. Its like that age will be the highlight of your existence and afterwards in your 20s, 30s, 40s, nothing really exciting will happen anymore. I know a protagonist in their mid 50s would be a huge step, but what about late 30s? Early 40s? Shrek is also a character in his mid 30s and he was always so relatable and the movie was a clear success for adults, they had Donkey not only for Shreks dynamic but also for Kids who loved the energetic characters. Thats why i also love the dynamic between Patcha and Kuzco, Patcha is the more relaxed, sincere one while Kuzco is the complete opposite. So they have always the opportunity to do an older protagonist, especially when they throw in a funny, more energetic character for balance.


Youre right! I always forget Jungle Book is set in India, we never really see much of its culture as the movie takes place like 98% in the jungle. The only Alternative would be the Royal Detective but i guess everyone forgot about its existence (including me)

Lavendergolden wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2025 7:41 am Aww thanks, that's so kind of you to say. It means a lot coming from you because I love your posts and how much information you share that's always so entertaining along with your funny and witty comments.

Thank u gurly thats really nice of you!

The Disneynerd wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2025 6:32 am

Lavendergolden wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2025 7:41 am I do think it's interesting that Eisner said no to Don Quixote because he didn't want more classic novels adapted after Hunchback, but then the article even mentions that those creators went to work on Tarzan next. And Tarzan is also a classic novel. Maybe Tarzan was made an exception for because it's one of the most filmed properties of all time. I guess Quasimodo was already a departure from the typical Disney protagonist so it was felt too daring to do another weird choice like Don Quixote who is older and crazy. What a shame though based on what I'm seeing here.

Yeah i guess because Tarzan is more like the "cool boys" flick in the veins of Lion King that went even further by abondening the idea of being a musical with princesses or the fairytalish feeling, with a male protagonist who is known to be some sort of Action hero surviver, not someone boys would instantly relate to, but what they probably look up to and percieve as cool and badass. And it worked... 3rd biggest Box office WDAS hit in the 90s after Aladdin and LK. Also, the story of Tarzan is pretty well known and adapted as you said

Lavendergolden wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2025 7:41 am I didn't know Disney was making a Rumpelstiltskin which is why DreamWorks used him as the villain in their last Shrek. I didn't realize they used Rapunzel in Shrek 3 because Disney was using her as well.

Dreamworks was a more obvious rival, as they took their abondened Sinbad idea (which i still love) and especially since Rapunzel was expected to be WDASs breakout hit in the mid 2000s, so Dreamworks making her the villain would only give viewers a bad aftertaste for upcoming Tangled. Also Rumplestilskin was mostly rumored to be something at WDAS, most prominantly something called "Uncle Stilskin", making Rumple the unusual hero who learns the meaning of family in the veins of Stitch, which Dreamworks prevented again by making Rumplestilskin the main villain in Shrek 4. But i dont mind them because the movie was quite sincere and Rumple is a great villain! https://youtu.be/1IaDQdo8x1I?feature=shared https://youtu.be/tqNPCWE2V2o?feature=shared

Disney did still treat Mattel as some competition with their Barbie movies (it was so dumb of Mattel not releasing Nutcracker 2001 theatrically, the Animation was good for that time and something way better than Jimmy Neutron, which got an Oscar nomination for some unknown reason, perhaps it could have been a decent global success, especially since 3d was rising) as Disney did some parallels, as im realizing now that Little Mermaid 3s plot basically is Barbies 12 Dancing Princesses, replace the Dancing with singing and its basically the same. Tho 12 DP is by far superior.

Lavendergolden wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2025 7:41 am Mattel wanted to make a Barbie movie on Sleeping Beauty. It was to complete their fairy tale Tchaikovsky trilogy of Nutcracker, Swan Lake, and Sleeping Beauty. There's even a demo reel of the movie online

But i thought it was for a doll commercial?? You mean this one right?https://youtu.be/bbQ6YgMuzWs?si=uXPPQrc_M0iXIqzH  https://youtu.be/J7_1S47Sio0?feature=shared funny how the Animation looked 10 times better in Nutcracker, i think Barbie looked the realest and the best there, especially since she had individual hairstrands while later on she only has one chunk of hair.also i love how bitter the ending is and that she even decided to stay there while the Ratking ruined their love at the end https://youtu.be/uISM6GXb_M8?feature=shared

Yeah its not hard to love the old classic Barbie movies! This Rapunzel is also high up, as i liked the change that she constantly secretly goes out for a short time and returns quickly back before Gothel arrives. They changed it from the prince having to visit her in the tower to Rapunzel having to secretly sneak out to meet him again. One thing that bothered me however was the abscence of hair usage, no hairclimbing whatsover, especially the scene where the girl fell in the well and Rapunzel reached her hand out while she easily could have used her long hair....Also Gothels defeat in this one is so clever and iconic, with her setting up her own trap,  but I guess Shelley Duvalls Fairytale Theaters Rapunzel takes the cake for best adaptation! The characters drive and backgrounds are so well crafted out, i also like how this Rapunzel has no idea of men. Another Rapunzel movie i liked growing up, while not being an official or completed version, is the animated "Rapunzel Nabunzel" i loveeee the humour in this one! The pacing and the switch from animation to animatic is sometimes a bit irratating but its selfmade after all so its fine. Also its not complete. Video is like 90 mins long but its just half of the finished material. https://youtu.be/_xXf7QDqxR4?si=rMyr6Td7zc2Rg4P4

Lavendergolden wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2025 7:41 am I can see why Michael Eisner was reluctant about a geriatric leading man. Children's stories usually don't include old people as main characters. There's a feeling that children will relate better to children or teens, which is also why young adult characters are always in their teens. I think another reason why The Emperor's New Groove didn't work because Pacha was too middle-aged and married to be relatable for kids. Most old people are either absent parents, mentor figures (who have to die so the actual kid protagonist can save the day on their own), or villains.

Yeah its just annoying that its getting normalized, having characters always young. Its like that age will be the highlight of your existence and afterwards in your 20s, 30s, 40s, nothing really exciting will happen anymore. I know a protagonist in their mid 50s would be a huge step, but what about late 30s? Early 40s? Shrek is also a character in his mid 30s and he was always so relatable and the movie was a clear success for adults, they had Donkey not only for Shreks dynamic but also for Kids who loved the energetic characters. Thats why i also love the dynamic between Patcha and Kuzco, Patcha is the more relaxed, sincere one while Kuzco is the complete opposite. So they have always the opportunity to do an older protagonist, especially when they throw in a funny, more energetic character for balance.

Lavendergolden wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2025 7:41 am Aww thanks, that's so kind of you to say. It means a lot coming from you because I love your posts and how much information you share that's always so entertaining along with your funny and witty comments.

Thank u gurly thats really nice of you!

Yeah, all those reasons you listed for Tarzan explains it success. It hit the big four quadrant which most movies want to reach for demographics. Males under 25, females under 25, males above 25, and females above 25. I think the last Disney movie to reach that before Tarzan was Lion King. So it makes sense that Tarzan was Disney's biggest hit since Aladdin and Lion King and the last big hit before Tangled. Although Lilo & Stitch, meant as a smaller film, was a minor hit and became a merchandise juggernaut. Tarzan eschewing the musical formula for Phil Collins probably also helped keep things fresh and helped the movie win the Oscar for Best Song since Alan Menken said there was resentment towards his back to back wins so many years in a row that when he most deserved the award (Hunchback), they stopped awarding him. Having someone who wasn't him represent Disney (like Elton John before) must have helped. But I do think it's funny that Disney gets said to be female-centric but their biggest box office hits in the 90s were always the male centric ones like Lion King, Aladdin, and Tarzan.

Thanks for telling me about Uncle Stiltskin. Wasn't familiar with that or that Disney ever considered a Rumpelstiltskin adaptation. I also feel he was a good villain in the last Shrek but I thought his design was lackluster. Also Rumpelstiltskin classically had a long beard so he looked off without one.

Although those early Barbie movies have pretty aged animation, they would have been remarkable for the time. Much like Toy Story which looks really outdated now. So I do think Mattel could have gotten away with theatrical releases for their Barbie movies and that would have helped make the Barbie franchise into a bigger rival for the DP franchise. I didn't know that Jimmy Neutron got an Oscar nomination. They seem to nominate anything lol. Ariel's Beginning came after The Twelve Dancing Princesses right? I can see Disney copying that idea especially since I read that Ariel's Beginning was drastically revamped and was originally supposed to start off with a prologue featuring Ariel, Eric, and Melody. I think Ariel telling the story of her origin to Melody. I don't remember Ariel's Beginning but I never liked it very much whereas 12 Dancing Princesses is a Barbie classic!

Oh you're right, that is just the doll commercial. I always thought it was odd that her design was identical to a doll from years back. So I guess that means they never got around to doing any animation for Barbie Sleeping Beauty but it was in production before being cancelled because Disney trademarked Aurora's name and wouldn't let Mattel use it. I think the animation in the trailer/short film was better than in Nutcracker because it was so short that they could afford to make it look way better than a full-fledged movie. And yes, Nutcracker has a bittersweet ending and I think part of it is that it's basically The Wizard of Oz "it was a dream" ending. So she dreamt the whole thing but gets the prince as a reward when she meets him in real life so she still gets a happy ending. All fairy land adventures usually end with the heroine waking up and it being ambiguous whether it was a dream or not. Like Alice in Wonderland it's really just a dream. Wendy wakes up and it's left ambiguous whether she dreamt everything. Dorothy definitely dreams everything. And Clara is in that long line of heroines.

Barbie Rapunzel does have a dream of the prince coming to her tower and climbing her hair. I'm glad they incorporated it that way but it would have been nice if it was actually part of the plot. I guess the nature of the story meant that since Rapunzel's tower only gets newly created by magic and since the prince can't know where she is, he can't ever visit her at the tower to climb her hair. I never thought about using her hair as a rope when the little princess falls into a well. That is rather smart but I guess since this Rapunzel never used her hair as rope before, it wouldn't come to mind. Definitely love that Rapunzel could essentially trick Gothel by leaving the tower and coming back and also how Gothel being the real liar gets her trapped at the end. I used to watch Shelley Duvall's fairy tale show but it was so long ago that I don't really remember the individual episodes, so I don't remember what happened in the Rapunzel one. That one had Jeff Bridges as the prince right? I'm not familiar with Rapunzel Nabunzel but I've seen pics of Rapunzel in that blue dress before. I thought it was just fanart and didn't realize it was an actual thing. I like Rapunzel's design in the blue dress and especially with that deep gold hair, almost with a red tinge to it. The prince looks like Flynn Rider with the facial hair.

Is Shrek really in his mid-30s? As an ogre, I never really thought about him having an age in human terms. I'm surprised people haven't tried to cancel him for his age gap with Fiona then since presumably she's 18 or in her early 20s. Considering how long she was stuck in her tower, I always assumed she was slightly older than the usual DP because she had to wait for her prince more than the rest of them. I can't really think of many prominent children's stories that feature an older protagonist, even in their 30s. Most children's stories usually feature orphans or are coming of age stories so those don't really work with someone in their 30s or 40s. Disney had the chance to do that with King Arthur but then Walt decided to instead adapt the first book of The Once and Future King with young Arthur. I think he did that on purpose because Arthur was a child and that would connect more with kids, since I heard he originally bought the rights for the third book which would have been the classic Arthur/Guinevere/Lancelot love triangle. Which imo would have been a more ambitious project.

You're welcome!

Lavendergolden wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2025 11:18 pm Tarzan eschewing the musical formula for Phil Collins probably also helped keep things fresh and helped the movie win the Oscar for Best Song since Alan Menken said there was resentment towards his back to back wins so many years in a row that when he most deserved the award (Hunchback), they stopped awarding him.

I didnt realize Hunchback got snubbed at the best original Song category... the music, especially the lyrics in this one are great! Not even a nomination for Outthere!

Lavendergolden wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2025 11:18 pm I do think it's funny that Disney gets said to be female-centric but their biggest box office hits in the 90s were always the male centric ones like Lion King, Aladdin, and Tarzan.

Disney scrubs them to the side and only does what sold best since Tangled (without even trying Something new). They would clearly have a huge hit if they would do a male centred fairytale movie again, doesnt help them if they gatekeep their movies for girls, especially when they incorporate it with their glitter girly princess franshise. They got the clear signs early on but are too blind

Lavendergolden wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2025 11:18 pm So I guess that means they never got around to doing any animation for Barbie Sleeping Beauty but it was in production before being cancelled because Disney trademarked Aurora's name and wouldn't let Mattel use it.

Even tho i would have probably preferred Disneys Sleeping Beauty anyway, its still a huge bummer this one couldnt be made, Barbie would have clearly made it justice, just like Nutcracker and Swan Lake! This was such a bitter move from Disney! How is it even possible to trademark an effing name?
Also kudos at Mattel for having the prince kiss Sleeping Beauty on her hand! I dont think Anyone would have a problem with Snow White or SB getting awakened through a kiss on the hand or on the cheek, as with lips its too sexual, especially since they are asleep and numb. The Snow Brown remake will thankfully have this one redeeming quality. Of course i love the classics, but if you really think about it, a guy kissing a corpse that isnt even his girlfriend is kinda weird. One Handkiss is no problem tho

The Disneynerd wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2025 4:49 am Barbie Rapunzel does have a dream of the prince coming to her tower and climbing her hair. I'm glad they incorporated it that way but it would have been nice if it was actually part of the plot.

i forgot about the sequence, youre right! It was a nice throwback to the tale! also Yeah the Shelley Duvall Rapunzel had Jeff Bridges! And yes 12 Dancing Princesses was 2006 and Ariel 3 2008

Lavendergolden wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2025 11:18 pm Is Shrek really in his mid-30s? As an ogre, I never really thought about him having an age in human terms. I'm surprised people haven't tried to cancel him for his age gap with Fiona then since presumably she's 18 or in her early 20s.

Lol no need to cancel him
Apparently, Fiona is in her late 20s, early 30s. Theres no official Statement of their age in the movies, but its Literally everywhere stated somehow, Shrek Wiki, especially in the Official Shrek Broadway musical. Maybe a Screenplay detail or something, but i guess the Musical cleared that up

Lavendergolden wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2025 11:18 pm Disney had the chance to do that with King Arthur but then Walt decided to instead adapt the first book of The Once and Future King with young Arthur. I think he did that on purpose because Arthur was a child and that would connect more with kids, since I heard he originally bought the rights for the third book which would have been the classic Arthur/Guinevere/Lancelot love triangle. Which imo would have been a more ambitious project.

Oh interesting! I agree, an official Camelot adaptation would have been pleasing, tho i love the simple coming of age story they did with tSiS. Since WDAS is obsessed with extending their IPs, they could actually do a sequel to this one which really calls for it!

But King Arthur camealot didnt he?

The Disneynerd wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2025 4:49 am

Lavendergolden wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2025 11:18 pm Tarzan eschewing the musical formula for Phil Collins probably also helped keep things fresh and helped the movie win the Oscar for Best Song since Alan Menken said there was resentment towards his back to back wins so many years in a row that when he most deserved the award (Hunchback), they stopped awarding him.

I didnt realize Hunchback got snubbed at the best original Song category... the music, especially the lyrics in this one are great! Not even a nomination for Outthere!

Lavendergolden wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2025 11:18 pm I do think it's funny that Disney gets said to be female-centric but their biggest box office hits in the 90s were always the male centric ones like Lion King, Aladdin, and Tarzan.

Disney scrubs them to the side and only does what sold best since Tangled (without even trying Something new). They would clearly have a huge hit if they would do a male centred fairytale movie again, doesnt help them if they gatekeep their movies for girls, especially when they incorporate it with their glitter girly princess franshise. They got the clear signs early on but are too blind

Lavendergolden wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2025 11:18 pm So I guess that means they never got around to doing any animation for Barbie Sleeping Beauty but it was in production before being cancelled because Disney trademarked Aurora's name and wouldn't let Mattel use it.

Even tho i would have probably preferred Disneys Sleeping Beauty anyway, its still a huge bummer this one couldnt be made, Barbie would have clearly made it justice, just like Nutcracker and Swan Lake! This was such a bitter move from Disney! How is it even possible to trademark an effing name?
Also kudos at Mattel for having the prince kiss Sleeping Beauty on her hand! I dont think Anyone would have a problem with Snow White or SB getting awakened through a kiss on the hand or on the cheek, as with lips its too sexual, especially since they are asleep and numb. The Snow Brown remake will thankfully have this one redeeming quality. Of course i love the classics, but if you really think about it, a guy kissing a corpse that isnt even his girlfriend is kinda weird. One Handkiss is no problem tho

The Disneynerd wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2025 4:49 am Barbie Rapunzel does have a dream of the prince coming to her tower and climbing her hair. I'm glad they incorporated it that way but it would have been nice if it was actually part of the plot.

i forgot about the sequence, youre right! It was a nice throwback to the tale! also Yeah the Shelley Duvall Rapunzel had Jeff Bridges! And yes 12 Dancing Princesses was 2006 and Ariel 3 2008

Lavendergolden wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2025 11:18 pm Is Shrek really in his mid-30s? As an ogre, I never really thought about him having an age in human terms. I'm surprised people haven't tried to cancel him for his age gap with Fiona then since presumably she's 18 or in her early 20s.

Lol no need to cancel him
Apparently, Fiona is in her late 20s, early 30s. Theres no official Statement of their age in the movies, but its Literally everywhere stated somehow, Shrek Wiki, especially in the Official Shrek Broadway musical. Maybe a Screenplay detail or something, but i guess the Musical cleared that up

Lavendergolden wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2025 11:18 pm Disney had the chance to do that with King Arthur but then Walt decided to instead adapt the first book of The Once and Future King with young Arthur. I think he did that on purpose because Arthur was a child and that would connect more with kids, since I heard he originally bought the rights for the third book which would have been the classic Arthur/Guinevere/Lancelot love triangle. Which imo would have been a more ambitious project.

Oh interesting! I agree, an official Camelot adaptation would have been pleasing, tho i love the simple coming of age story they did with tSiS. Since WDAS is obsessed with extending their IPs, they could actually do a sequel to this one which really calls for it!

But King Arthur camealot didnt he?

Only an Oscar nomination for Best Score. I can see why Menken and Schwartz were upset. I think another issue was that the song Disney had been heavily promoting for Hunchback was Someday and that was a deleted song that doesn't end up in the movie except in the end credits. So they didn't have that power anthem song to promote like they did with Colors of the Wind before. Only pop versions which were going to be less prevalent since there was no animated counterpart. But it's funny because Someday still remains one of the most popular songs of the movie. I look at Disney compilation albums from around the world and Someday from Hunchback is pretty much always included. So it does seem like Disney bet on the wrong horse when they cut the song.

They're also forgetting that they themselves admitted that part of Tangled's appeal (and name change) was to ensure that Flynn Rider felt like a co-lead to attract boys. But outside of Moana with Maui, the new movies are all female-centric like Frozen, Raya, Encanto, and Wish. And I don't think Disney has learnt its lesson because concept art for Frozen 3 shows Elsa, Anna, and Olaf on an adventure but no Kristoff. Many boys were into Frozen because they had a male human character like Kristoff but Disney never knew what to do with him. Frozen II pretty much only featured him so they could have a character for boys but he had nothing to do. And now Frozen III seems like it'll cut him out completely, maybe with him ruling in Anna's stead while she's on her adventure.

I think the hand kiss was only because it's a trailer/commercial for a doll line centered on little girls. I don't think there's anything inappropriate with a real kiss imo especially when it's Disney's bread and butter. But I don't have a problem with the LA Snow White not featuring it because that film is already a disaster so the more stuff it gets wrong, the better for the rest of us. And boyfriend/girlfriend was not a concept in historical times. Florian and Phillip both knew that Snow White and Aurora loved them and vice-versa. The relationship doesn't need any more dimensions than that. I've already seen Disney trying to recontextualize Sleeping Beauty so that Aurora gives Phillip consent for the kiss which is just plain stupid imo.

Ok then Ariel's Beginning probably did get inspired by The 12 Dancing Princesses. We all know Disney loves to copy.

I never would have guessed Fiona was in her late 20s/early 30s. Maybe they were trying to be closer to Cameron Diaz's age. I've seen the musical but Fiona's age isn't listed in it so maybe it was in a casting call. We do see Fiona grow up in three phases of her life, when she's stuck in the tower, but I never guessed her adult version would have been in her late 20s/early 30s. But I do think her being stuck in the tower longer than an ordinary princess would be in finding her happy ending makes sense.

I'm surprised there was no sequel to TSITS when they were making sequels for all their movies. But I guess TSITS was always one of their least popular movies and the only Walt-era movie not to be a classic so it makes sense Disney was not interested in touching that film again. Also I guess the story of adultery would be too hard to adapt, which was a problem in Hercules as well.

‘Tiana’ Disney+ Series Canceled, New ‘Princess and the Frog’ Special Planned
https://wdwnt.com/2025/03/tiana-disney- ... l-planned/

Stuff is happening at WDAS and it’s much needed. Feel sorry for everyone that put their hearts and soul into this though. Never fun when a project of 4 years is shelved.

Anika Noni Rose Speaks Out On Disney’s Princess Tiana Series Not Moving Forward: “Deeply Disappointed”
https://deadline.com/2025/03/anika-noni ... 236323674/

A shame, but I wasn't sure how good it would be between the animation and plot. The Tangled series being as good as it was plot-wise was unique.

The way i thought i got banned and was so sad, since the website stated that my account got "suspended", glad this wasnt the case!
Wow we got so much great Disney news the past few weeks its a goldmine!
This being said, its for the better the Tiana series got cancelled, seemed like the story didnt have much substance and room anyway.  Also what its been over 15 years it would have been really hard to find the footing back to its strenghts and roots, especially with a brand new creative team. The cancellation is a win. One Frozen 2 less!

I really didn't think it was gonna be hand drawn anyway, and if it was, seems like an odd thing to waste it on. If they're gonna bring that back eventually, it should be a new ip imo to give it the best chance at success.
Had this not gotten canceled I expected it to look a bit like the tangled series, maybe with outlines to better resemble the original movie. But it would have still not looked great.

That being said, what we are getting is the Tiana holiday special. It will probably be lame, but I do wonder what medium that will be in.

I had gotten the news about the series being canceled and I'm feeling all kinds of frustrated and betrayed over the cancellation. Especially since things seemed to be "moving along fine", despite the lack of updates.

I recall saying to a few friends that I feel like Aurora is the one Disney princess who gets the short end of the stick (basically being a secondary character in her own movie, only to ironically have more character in her sequel short). Now, I think that "honor" goes to Tiana. Seems like every WDAS princess gets some sort of spinoff/prequel/sequel/series except for her.

Maybe Snow White too, even though her movie practically put Disney on the map!

Honestly I'm not surprised about the cancellation. The movie is not one of the greatest big hits and Tiana is not very popular in other countries. I understand that they took the decission to make this move to tell more black people's stories and to expand Tiana's universe but if we tal financially it's not a smart decission. I think that the money has been one of the problems that took them to cancel the TV show.
Honestly I think that it has been a good decission. All the Disney+ shows made till the date are not good and are very forgettable. Tiana deserves more than a cheap tv show.

Keep in mind that the interview is three months old.

Q: What are you working on now?

Stephen Anderson: I'm back at Disney Animation. I came back in August of last year. I went back to storyboard on a Disney+ series called Tiana which is a Princess and the Frog follow-up. Unfortunately, about a month ago or so the announcement was made that that series is not moving forward, but we are still making a 30-minute Tiana piece for Disney+. And so now, I'm one of the two directors on that. That's what I'm doing right now. We've done a few passes of an outline that seems to be getting good reactions from people. Hopefully, a script will be coming in another couple of weeks or months and then we'll start boarding in the summer.

Q: Is Anika Nani Rose going to be the voice of Tiana?

Stephen Anderson: That's still the idea, yeah.

Q: What about the music-wise?

Stephen Anderson: Unsure, at this point. In the series, there was two songs per episode, so it was very music-centric, as you can imagine. Music will definitely be a part of this, but we're not quite sure how it's going to work yet. It's still pretty early, but there are a few moments we've earmarked for songs. But again, the story is still very broad strokes, so it may transform and that might change the song placement. And the special is only 30 minutes, so the songs will have to be very focused and very efficient.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ7Js6UhCQI

Q: Tiana Disney+ series cancellation is an embarrassment since it was the basis for Tiana’s Bayou Adventure.

Stephen Anderson: Actually the cancelled series had nothing to do with the ride, storywise.

Source: https://x.com/stevehatguy/status/1897442001148346643

Q: Why was Tiana canceled? Does it have to do with the character's race or anything like that?

Stephen Anderson: Of course not.

Source: https://x.com/stevehatguy/status/1897445516717510865

A shame then. I'd like to think there would have been a few good songs if they were going to have two per episode like that.