DVDizzy Forum

There. I fixed it.

Now can everyone stop whining about her new-found sex symbol status?

Jay wrote:Oh yes Ariel, Belle, Pocahontas, Mulan, Tiana and Rapunzel were all "a simpering pretty face waiting around for romance!"

Well said. It's sad that Brenda is disparaging all these heroines, especially since she worked on The Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast.

enigmawing wrote:All of the princesses have had altered proportions for the clip art, but I'm guessing Merida is sacred since Chapman based the character on her real-life daughter?

Exactly. Did she even base Merida on her appearance or just her personality? In any case, it's just clipart for heaven's sake. Of course, there will be some minor adjustments. Why can't she realize that?

I'm just sick of all the whining and complaining about something that wasn't offensive to begin with. When will this controversy fade away already?

Considering the Princess brand is the most widely distributed and easily accessible representation of these movies, I welcome any changes that might bring about better looking and more accurate character marketing images and products. The Princess brand has a poor history of this and it's damaging to have them look this way as it offends everyone from fans to casual viewers. That five year olds can catch on to the differences is also telling of Disney's poor opinion of its own target market.

The park characters will be seen by a fraction of the audience that will see Merida look this way at Walmart, Staples, Toys-R-Us, Target, Disney Store and so forth, so bringing that up as a defense is a poor counter-argument. You may also claim this issue to be trivial, but in the end, the drawing still looks like shit and does not do the movie justice. It's why I'm against the way Disney treats the brand as a whole, and that goes for all characters featured.

That this controversy pushed by the purchasing moms started with Merida and not Mulan, Belle or Tiana before is kind of sad to me, but at least it's starting somewhere and people are finally starting to put their foot down over these highly-genered, ugly looking images that position these characters in this way and dictate what accompanying products are made.

And yes, you can feel this way without being an ex-Pixar employee or an overweight, man-hating "feminist" Lesbian.

Flanger-Hanger wrote:Considering the Princess brand is the most widely distributed and easily accessible representation of these movies, I welcome any changes that might bring about better looking and more accurate character marketing images and products. The Princess brand has a poor history of this and it's damaging to have them look this way as it offends everyone from fans to casual viewers. That five year olds can catch on to the differences is also telling of Disney's poor opinion of its own target market.

The park characters will be seen by a fraction of the audience that will see Merida look this way at Walmart, Staples, Toys-R-Us, Target, Disney Store and so forth, so bringing that up as a defense is a poor counter-argument. You may also claim this issue to be trivial, but in the end, the drawing still looks like shit and does not do the movie justice. It's why I'm against the way Disney treats the brand as a whole, and that goes for all characters featured.

That this controversy pushed by the purchasing moms started with Merida and not Mulan, Belle or Tiana before is kind of sad to me, but at least it's starting somewhere and people are finally starting to put their foot down over these highly-genered, ugly looking images that position these characters in this way and dictate what accompanying products are made.

And yes, you can feel this way without being an ex-Pixar employee or an overwieght, man-hating "feminist" Lesbian.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

enigmawing wrote:

There. I fixed it.

Now can everyone stop whining about her new-found sex symbol status?

Nope... she needs to lose the glitter. ALL of it... And she needs to have a butch pose. She looks too feminine here. And she should be angry. Heck, give her some hairy legs and arms.

Probably the same as my first post, but I feel like clapping for Brenda Chapman every time she makes another statement. I'm glad she speaks her mind. I'm sure Disney/PIXAR would like to shut her down ASAP but she no longer works for them and owes them nothing. Good for her.

Flanger-Hanger wrote: That this controversy pushed by the purchasing moms started with Merida and not Mulan, Belle or Tiana before is kind of sad to me, but at least it's starting somewhere and people are finally starting to put their foot down over these highly-genered, ugly looking images that position these characters in this way and dictate what accompanying products are made.

And yes, you can feel this way without being an ex-Pixar employee or an overweight, man-hating "feminist" Lesbian.

I agree with everything you've said, but especially these two points. I think the DP line really started after Mulan and Belle, so I can get why there wasn't any controversy there. Tiana was a strong character, but since the movie didn't do great and she was dressed in a puffy, beautiful dress at the end--not surprised to see it happen with her either. Merida is the first character that was intentionally made with feminist goals in mind since the DP line had become a huge merchandising force. I think also that the distinction between Pixar and Disney may be at play here as well, with some seeing a Pixar character being mutilated by Disney for money.

And I do find the characterization of Brenda's thoughts and the thoughts of those who agree with her about the DP line somewhat demeaning. She said nothing about making Merida an ugly, hairy girl, she just wants her to remain the same way as she was intended: a next-door-girl kind of girl with average looks, very far from glamorous (which the DP line is all about). The only other characters in the line that might fall under that umbrella are Pocahontas and Mulan, and I would even cut out Pocahontas, considering she has always been criticized for her original design being overly attractive and Baywatch-esque. I think Mulan is the best comparison, considering she is also repressed by the beauty-obsessed ideals of femininity in her community at the beginning. Unlike Merida, however, she doesn't exactly "reject" them openly, and has been criticized for once again returning to that mold at the end of the film.

If that's what she feels, then that's fine. But she should stay clear of criticizing the other princesses; in no way does making derogatory remarks about the others make a sure argument for her character. Really disappointing she called them 'simpering pretty faces'.

I agree with the idea that Disney should not bother anymore with Merdia and just focus on the Frozen girls. She's not worth all this.

A really good article on this whole Merida issue:

http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/disney-prin ... s-redesign

People made some good observations in the comments too.

Also, this one:

http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/disney-prin ... ve-bothers

It pretty much sums up my feelings on Merida and Brave in general.

Chapman is now giving video interviews.

http://startingpoint.blogs.cnn.com/2013 ... -makeover/

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/video/ ... -makeover/

http://www.ktvu.com/videos/news/marin-c ... ney/v2z4Z/

Exclusive: Disney bravely responds to Merida makeover outrage, says 2D new look was for “limited” use only
http://www.insidethemagic.net/2013/05/e ... -use-only/

'Brave': Merida remains the girl you know and love -- EXCLUSIVE
http://family-room.ew.com/2013/05/15/br ... -makeover/

UPDATE: Disney Denies ‘Brave’ Princess Makeover Pulled In Wake Of Protests
http://www.deadline.com/2013/05/disney- ... -protests/

Disney's sexier, skinnier Merida to stay, despite protests
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/mo ... 2947.story

Disney's 'Change' of Merida - A View from the Official Coronation of Merida at Walt Disney World
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/monica-ga ... 85289.html

Merida’s Coronation: Cool Your Jets People
http://www.babble.com/babble-voices/shu ... oronation/

Princess Is As Princess Does: On The Real Merida, And My Merida, And All The Meridas In Between
http://www.babble.com/babble-voices/cat ... al-merida/

'Brave' princess' sexy makeover not permanent, Disney says
http://www.today.com/entertainment/brav ... -1C9952299

Another thing I realized about Brave... for all its talk about women being in charge, the movie does a really good job of belittling men. Think about it, the main central male figure is Fergus, and while he is a great character, he is mainly portrayed as this large, bumbling, violence prone barbarian. The other male characters are just as foolish, silly, and stereotypical. For me, a REAL progressive film would portray characters as people, not as tokens or stereotypes. Even if the film is supposed to be female centric, having the women just as capable as the men would have done wonders. Have Fergus be as caring for traditions as the queen, have him understand the two points of views of ruling a kingdom, and have complex emotions about the situation between his daughter and his wife. Why is it that when people try to highlight the best of a race or gender, it does so by belittling everyone else? How is THAT progressive? It just shows a tired, immature mindset that a lot of stories follow that reek of bitterness on behalf of the creators.

And I am sorry, but at this point, Brenda Chapman is gonna become the female John K. Don't be surprised if she ends up being hailed by failed animation directors because she speaks loudly. In life, though, it's not how loud and often you speak, it's what you say with those words.

I don't believe that Disney did not plan to use the 2D re-design on a permanent basis. Their latest move in this case is clearly because of all the outrage from the public. Look at Rapunzel, another 3D character who they portray as a 2D character in their merchandise. I think Disney might try again with Merida sometime in the future.

I would love it if this controversy had led to a re-design of all the princesses so they appeared more like they look in the movies.

pap64 wrote:And I am sorry, but at this point, Brenda Chapman is gonna became the female John K. Don't be surprised if she ends up being hailed by failed animation directors because she speaks loudly.

Oooooo this is a REALLY good point. With each and every thing she posts I get more and more irritated by her. Which is a real shame, because I REALLY liked her. But she is really not handling this well. There are ways in which she could still speak out about it without coming off as rude and obnoxious, and loud. I'd hate to see her continue down that road and end up just like John K, who makes my skin crawl.

SWillie! wrote:

pap64 wrote:And I am sorry, but at this point, Brenda Chapman is gonna became the female John K. Don't be surprised if she ends up being hailed by failed animation directors because she speaks loudly.

Oooooo this is a REALLY good point. With each and every thing she posts I get more and more irritated by her. Which is a real shame, because I REALLY liked her. But she is really not handling this well. There are ways in which she could still speak out about it without coming off as rude and obnoxious, and loud. I'd hate to see her continue down that road and end up just like John K, who makes my skin crawl.

That would defiantly not be pretty.If she holds on to that resentment she will probably regret it later in life.

In my honest opinion, Brenda Chapman should take notes from Chris Sanders. Sanders, much like Chapman, was part of the team behind the 90s Disney rennaisance, going as far as to be given the credit for Beast's designs (which Glen Keane perfected). He provided artwork and ideas for all the major movies. Not only that, he directed the studio's major hit in the early 00s, Lilo and Stitch. That created a massive franchise for them. But then management took his movie, American Dog, changed it completely, he left Disney, and what did he do next? Go to Dreamworks and direct two big hits for them. He still talks about Disney, sure, but he surely doesn't spend his time talking about how angry he is, or how upset that after he had given Disney an incredibly popular character in Stitch he was let go while they changed his movie wildly. He kept on creating art, he kept on creating stories, he didn't let Disney steal his passion for Disney. I am sure he is still stung, but he moved on from Disney.

This will hurt Chapman in the end. I understand the artist's need to defend his/her work, and she has that right, but eventually she has to move on, forget this happened, and focus on creating new stories. If she doesn't she WILL become John K in that his success is mainly of the cult kind, while he sits being bitter at those that are successful.

pap64 wrote:In my honest opinion, Brenda Chapman should take notes from Chris Sanders. Sanders, much like Chapman, was part of the team behind the 90s Disney rennaisance, going as far as to be given the credit for Beast's designs (which Glen Keane perfected). He provided artwork and ideas for all the major movies. Not only that, he directed the studio's major hit in the early 00s, Lilo and Stitch. That created a massive franchise for them. But then management took his movie, American Dog, changed it completely, he left Disney, and what did he do next? Go to Dreamworks and direct two big hits for them. He still talks about Disney, sure, but he surely doesn't spend his time talking about how angry he is, or how upset that after he had given Disney an incredibly popular character in Stitch he was let go while they changed his movie wildly. He kept on creating art, he kept on creating stories, he didn't let Disney steal his passion for Disney. I am sure he is still stung, but he moved on from Disney.

l.

He also still voices Stitch when needed like in the new Anime version of Stitch in the english dub and in the video games including Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep

pap64 wrote:In life, though, it's not how loud and often you speak, it's what you say with those words.

Considering there's nothing wrong with what's she said, I don't think this applies. Sometimes you have the right words and you're loud--that usually gets more done than people who are silent. Considering Brave was the last movie she made/the one she won an Oscar for, and she doesn't have anything else at the moment, I don't see what is so offensive about her making comments on her present. And even if she had made 5 other films by now, why should she "move on" and silently look on as Disney, as she seems to believe, mutilates her character?

But I find your posts overblown anyway, because I find nothing wrong with John K. either. Isn't he the one who made all those jokes about the Rapunzel name change, the name that is, admittedly, stupid? Things that are awful don't improve just because time passes.

Disney's Divinity wrote:

pap64 wrote:In life, though, it's not how loud and often you speak, it's what you say with those words.

Considering there's nothing wrong with what's she said, I don't think this applies. Sometimes you have the right words and you're loud--that usually gets more done than people who are silent. Considering Brave was the last movie she made/the one she won an Oscar for, and she doesn't have anything else at the moment, I don't see what is so offensive about her making comments on her present. And even if she had made 5 other films by now, why should she "move on" and silently look on as Disney, as she seems to believe, mutilates her character?

But I find your posts overblown anyway, because I find nothing wrong with John K. either. Isn't he the one who made all those jokes about the Rapunzel name change, the name that is, admittedly, stupid? Things that are awful don't improve just because time passes.

First of all, if you are going to disagree with me, just disagree with me. Don't insult my opinions because you disagree with them. I could easily insult your own opinion, to try and make a point. But I won't, because just as I have the right to state what I think of the matter, you have the right to state the opposite. So next time, avoid the labels and comments and focus on debating my actual opinion.

Second, my beef with Brenda Chapman is NOT that she is defending her work. Like I said, an artist has the right to defend his or her artwork if he/she feels it is being compromised. What I, and many others, are speaking out against is the attitude Chapman she has about the issue, overblowing it to the point where she is dismissing the work done on other Disney films and overhyping her own creation. Like it's been stated time and time again, Merida is a great character, but not exactly the most groundbreaking. And the fact that people ignore the far worse changes they have made to the other characters in favor of this new character is basically a double standard as these characters are, in my honest opinion, far better than Merida and have a longer legacy at Disney, with the first three Disney Princesses being created by Walt's own original team. We are simply stating that some of the outcry over this issue is silly and reveals potential resentment and bitterness in Chapman.

As for John K, while he did mock Tangled, his overall problem is that he has this extremist view of animation to the point where everything has to be either done like HE things he should be done, or how it was done in the past, mocking and insulting the good animation work done today. He doesn't exactly teach as much as to express his own resentment towards the animation industry, and the fact that most studios find it hard to work with him on any projects shows that while he has vision, he fails to understand that in order to a vision to become a reality, you must compromise many things and be able to work as a team.

I would like to hear what these people have to say about the Disney Princesses/Princes

http://www.star941fm.com/pages/funphoto ... esses1.jpg