Page 17 of 23

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:53 pm
by Disney Duster
Disneykid, I read some of your review, will read more later, but I have to comment on some things now:

Actually, it's really just the idea that Wonderland should be bright and colorful. Remember way back, when I said Mary Blair put a lot of gray and dark colors in her Alice artwork to make Wonderland look underground? I still haven't read far enough into The Art and Flair of Mary Blair to find out if it is true or not, but until then, I must say I think that just makes sense and I think that would make Wonderland a mix of bright and dark, vivid and dim.

Also, the drabber colors also feel right to me in the way that I think of England, especially Victorian England, as dull and gray. And I think you know Woncerland's connections to and satire of Victorian England. The droll ways of the English also make me feel it just fits their sensibilities. And even further, somehow the duller, grayer colors remind me of, well, a book with black & white illustrations, like the original books were illustrated in black and white.

But above all, the reason Wonderland perhaps should be darker is because it matches how the world makes Alice feel and how she feels. Alice is trapped in a world that seems fun and is what she thought she wanted, but it actually turns out to be a scary place, that even makes her sad and lost. A, well, dark place. Hence, dark colors. Also, the idea it's in her mind, in the dark recesses of her foggy mind, "gray matter", that fuzzy grayness in our mind, etc.

So, I'm really just offering a possible argument for the darker, duller, grayer colors to be a good/right thing, for your consideration.

Oh, and one more thing, I caught the part about you saying it didn't make so much sense to find the White Rabbit when more interesting things she wanted were around her. But I think she thought, as I did as a child and I guess others do, that the Rabbit was going to something important, perhaps even held the one thing she always dreamed of that was better than the other things around her. She didn't want to miss whatever it was he had that the other things didn't have. And when children get fixated on something, they want to stick with it till they get it. She does enjoy the other things, too, but when not preoccupied with them, the White Rabbit is the goal she never yet reached. And it turns out he does lead her to the most extraordinary, exciting part of Wonderland. The ruling heart of the land, a queen, a castle, an upper class game, a courtroom, and the climax.
Victurtle wrote:hahahaha. The older one makes the movie sooooo dark which I never understood as Alice in Wonderland is all about a bright and colorful, albeit twisted, world. Finally Alice's hair is as golden as Aurora's!
No one's hair should be as golden as Aurora's! Aurora is supposed to have magically beautiful hair that has the "gold of sunshine" in it from Flora's Gift of Beauty! As for how Wonderland should look, see what I wrote above.

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:36 pm
by Disneykid
You make good points, Disney Duster.

I, unfortunately, don't have The Art and Flair of Mary Blair (want it badly, though!), so I don't know if her color choices are ever analyzed. I do know her style has a very childlike and whimsical look that seems to suggest a candy color motiff would be appropriate. It's hard to really say, though, because while some of her pieces have electric, almost neon colors...

Image

...others do look a little more drab, as you said...

Image

The whole parallel of Victorian England with Wonderland doesn't really work in Disney's version, though. The idea worked in the Tim Burton version because the production design was largely influenced by Victorian style architecture, but in the animated film, there's a kookier sense to everything. Plus, most of the connections content-wise (via dialogue in the book) were dropped for the Disney film.

After going through the Alice supplements, it becomes more obvious than ever that Wonderland's not meant to be a terrifying place at all for Alice. David Hall came up with an extensive storyboard treatment around 1939 that was REALLY dark (the Hatter and Hare actually attack Alice with a knife and scissors, and the climax had Alice placed on a guillotine). Walt was turned off by it and stressed the need to make Wonderland seem like a fun and comedic place.

So while the book and other adaptations of it have sinister undertones that would require a dark visual approach, Disney's doesn't apply. Alice is meant to be frustrated and annoyed by Wonderland and all its madness, not scared by it. Even the climax with everyone chasing her is treated more as a zany madcap chase than a race for her life.

And Alice and Aurora still have different hair colors. Alice's is a solid primary yellow while Aurora's is an understated blonde:

Image
Image

If anything, Alice's hair was more Auroraish in the previous restoration:

Image

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:40 pm
by DarthPrime
Just tried and I was able to print 2 coupons. I tried multiple times earlier today, and got the error. Glad this got fixed so fast! :)

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:12 pm
by disneyboy20022
From DMR's Facebook Page
Thank you for your patience everyone, the Alice coupon offer is back up and running. If you previously tried to print and it didn't work, click on My DMR, then unlocked offers, and you should be able to print your coupon from the link provided.

If there are further issues, know we will always work to resolve them as quickly as possible for you.

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:23 pm
by MJW
Excellent, thank you for letting us know disneyboy! I just printed my coupon, good luck to everyone else. It's good to know that DMR took this issue seriously, kept us informed, and acted quickly to resolve it! :D

Anyway, that's enough about the coupon from me, I am really looking forward to this release on Tuesday! For the first time, I will be able to come home with a new release and watch it in HD that very night. Previously, I had to watch the DVD copies of new releases because I didn't have a Blu-ray player yet.

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:37 pm
by Prince Edward
A great review Kelvin, highly appriciated! I enjoyed it very much:)

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:41 pm
by DisneyJedi
Got my coupon! Whoo-hoo!! :D

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:01 pm
by Victurtle
Disney Duster wrote:
Victurtle wrote:hahahaha. The older one makes the movie sooooo dark which I never understood as Alice in Wonderland is all about a bright and colorful, albeit twisted, world. Finally Alice's hair is as golden as Aurora's!
No one's hair should be as golden as Aurora's! Aurora is supposed to have magically beautiful hair that has the "gold of sunshine" in it from Flora's Gift of Beauty! As for how Wonderland should look, see what I wrote above.
What about Rapunzel? Her hair was the product of a pure drop of sunlight.

Also, you do know Sleeping Beauty was set in the 14th century, a good two or three hundred years before Alice. It could be possible they had invented brighter colors in that time span! :lol: Anyhow seeing as the fairies are now extinct, I don't think their magic is all it's made up to be. They even admit that themselves, that their powers weren't as strong as maleficent's.

Regarding Wonderland being dark, the color scheme (of purples, greys and swamp greens, deep blues) isn't lost or replaced in the new transfer. It is simply not further muddied up by old age. In actual fact, I really like the gold classics edition transfer and thought, dang, the new version does seem too bright, however there is just so much more depth in the blu-ray rip, everything comes alive. All the background artists and lighting director's efforts are finally revitalised, it's something so wonderful. Anyhow, if the movie transfer does seem to bright, then my TV probably isn't calibrated properly and I fix that.

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:58 pm
by tlc38tlc38
I wonder if Walmart will price match AND take the coupon?

If so, I could get it for $9.99. Best Buy has it advertised as $19.99 in their sales paper. I don't have a Best Buy near me though.

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:15 pm
by gardener14
^I tried to price match and use the coupon for Secretariat at Walmart, but the manager wouldn't let me do both. He said it was their policy not to accept a coupon and match a competitor's price. I politely argued that they would get reimbursed for the coupon, but he wouldn't budge. Finally he agreed with my logic, and admitted that he didn't know the reason why, but that was the policy. I still wonder if it is Walmart's corporate policy, or just that one store.

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:51 pm
by disneyboy20022
gardener14 wrote:^I tried to price match and use the coupon for Secretariat at Walmart, but the manager wouldn't let me do both. He said it was their policy not to accept a coupon and match a competitor's price. I politely argued that they would get reimbursed for the coupon, but he wouldn't budge. Finally he agreed with my logic, and admitted that he didn't know the reason why, but that was the policy. I still wonder if it is Walmart's corporate policy, or just that one store.
Probably it varies from store to store....I used the coupon for Secretariat at Wal-Mart though I didn't price match it since I wasn't able to get a paper...but when I price match and use a coupon and at the particular wal-mart I go to doesn't give me any problems about 98% of the time....though I did read wal-mart said the ad has to be from a store within 50 or 60 miles in order to use it...that's why I can't just get a hold of a Ultimate Electronics ad and use it here in Mattoon IL....

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:54 pm
by ajmrowland
does Shopko pricematch?

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:19 pm
by disneyboy20022
ajmrowland wrote:Shopko



Gazuntite :P

What in the world is a Shopko????

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:51 pm
by Elladorine
disneyboy20022 wrote:
ajmrowland wrote:Shopko



Gazuntite :P

What in the world is a Shopko????
It's a Wisconsin thing (I used to work at one). :p Think along the lines of Kmart.

I don't recall them ever doing price-matching but things may have changed in the past few years.

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:55 pm
by ajmrowland
^So, you used to live in Wisconsin? I thought Shopko was a national thing.

Anyhoo, I doubt they would.

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:10 pm
by jpanimation
Great review Kelvin, just reminds me why the UD reviews are the only reviews worth reading for Disney releases. I like how you even had some clickable captures that could be enlarged. I really respect how you simply state your preference in colors between releases and don't pretend to be an expert on the matter. I happen to agree with your preference, I like the new colors and if they weren't the originals, they should've been. It gives Wonderland the whimsy and dream-like quality you'd imagine it has. Then again, maybe it was supposed to look like it's underground and this new version is disingenuous. None of us know but that doesn't mean we can't have preferences.
Flanger-Hanger wrote:Could someone summerize the points made on HTF, such as how and when said individuals have come into contact with the original film related materials? Thinking about the new restoration myself I find it hard to believe three-strip technicolor could produce colours as pale and muted as the 2004 DVD when comparing it to others filmed in the same format, but that's just my view on a subject I don't claim to be an expert on.
Steven Worth is an expert on vintage animation art and currently the Director of the ASIFA-Hollywood Animation Archive. Robert Harris is a professional film restoration/preservationist (he restored The Godfather films for Blu-Ray). A lot was said, much of which went right over my head, so I suggest personally reading it.

Mr. Worth has been very vocal as to the inaccuracies of the colors, in addition to the usual argument that taking out film grain and digitally re-inking/coloring is compromising the integrity of the original film as intended. He says using cells and art as a basis for color is BS as the animators would make adjustments - based on tests conducted before hand - for the effects of film and the effects of layers on the multiplane camera. He also says Disney has color outlines/notes for many of their films that they should be using as a guideline. As far as his credibility is concerned, he has personally restored Disney artwork and cells, in addition to having viewed all the IB Tech Prints for the Walt era films (on tech prints, the color neither fades nor turns). While some may find his comments bold and brash, he is undoubtable more of an expert then anyone here.

According to him, the Dumbo Blu-Ray is the only one to sport accurate color representations, even though he still disapproves of the grain reduction and digital re-painting/inking.

Anyways, ALOT more was said but I really only skimmed the first page.

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:10 pm
by Elladorine
Well, they're based in Wisconsin but I think they're scattered about mostly in the midwest (and I'd never heard of them until I moved to WI). I lived in the state for about five years but am in another part of the country now.

Back then I only remember Walmart doing price matching (I used to work at one of those too actually, lol).

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:44 pm
by DisneyJedi
Okay, I checked some shop websites, so.....

Toys R Us: $29.99 (Now, that's a bit much, don't you think?)
Wal-Mart: $27 (Always low prices, my ass.)
Target: $22.99
Best Buy: $19.99

So.... either Target or Best Buy (coupon included) are your best bets.

Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:26 am
by jpanimation
I'd go with Best Buy. Not only are they the cheapest but I've never had any problems with them accepting the coupons.

Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:18 am
by MJW
DisneyJedi wrote:Okay, I checked some shop websites, so.....

Toys R Us: $29.99 (Now, that's a bit much, don't you think?)
Wal-Mart: $27 (Always low prices, my ass.)
Target: $22.99
Best Buy: $19.99
Not sure if this is true, but someone on another board said it would be $24.99 in-store at Toys R Us, but I would double check if you were interested in getting it there.

I'm going to Best Buy, but I am going to call first to make sure they take the coupon (I've heard some horror stories). I've gotten the last 2 DAC releases at TRU, so I am surprised that they aren't in competition for the best price, since they always were before. Is Best Buy usually well-stocked? I will not be able to get to the store until 5 PM tomorrow, after work. :(