DVDizzy Forum

Elsa: A Vindication of Traditional Femininity

By presenting Elsa first garbed in more androgynous attire, Disney “excuses” her later softer, more delicate, ultra-feminine appearance.

What the heck? How is Elsa's coronation dress anywhere near androgynous? Less sexy does not equal more androgynous. That is just realllllly stretching.

----------- blah blah blah most of my 2014 posts are crap ignore them

thedisneyspirit wrote:Elsa is very feminine throughout the film. She's also vulnerable, insecure, shy, and timid....She has huge self-esteem and security issues.

But people just ignore all of these parts of Elsa whenever talking about how such a fantastic character she is.

Actually, that's precisely part of the reason that she is a fantastic character, and what makes her so refreshingly different from so many assembly-line "butt-kicking" characters out there.

Thanks for sharing that polar opposite reading Princess Elsa. I would contend that any aspects of traditional femininity that Elsa exemplifies are not the real reason she's a popular and well-liked character; it's because she's human, suffering insecurities, trapped under pressure and expectations, and simply wants freedom. To describe her as the modern counterpart to a "damsel in distress" comically misses the point of "Let It Go". She doesn't need rescuing - she's able to rescue herself. Even at the end, she never has a male love interest - she doesn't need one. She doesn't need a strong masculine presence to help her (the film explicitly satirises the Prince Charming archetype). Also, at the end of "Let It Go", I would say that her transformation is more like Sandy's in Grease than transforming into a new Aurora or Snow White. This is not pure, virginal femininity, but a darker, more mature, more sexual format, something traditional Disney never dabbled in.

unprincess wrote:

DisneyFan09 wrote: Hans looks gorgeous.

except for that giant hairy caterpillar crawling on his face.

I guess animated sideburns dont translate well to live action.

Disagree. I liked his sideburns. I think sideburns are sexy

Congratulations Disney! Frozen has passed the billion mark!

Victurtle wrote:Congratulations Disney! Frozen has passed the billion mark!

This is very much a big milestone for Disney.

Victurtle wrote:Congratulations Disney! Frozen has passed the billion mark!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V837kPwWMcM

Dr Frankenollie wrote:Thanks for sharing that polar opposite reading Princess Elsa. I would contend that any aspects of traditional femininity that Elsa exemplifies are not the real reason she's a popular and well-liked character;

Perhaps for you, but for others, those qualities are extremely refreshing and very much part of the character's appeal.

Dr Frankenollie wrote: it's because she's human, suffering insecurities, trapped under pressure and expectations, and simply wants freedom.

Obviously that's part of it too. The two are hardly mutually exclusive. In fact, that statement applies to many classic Disney princesses.

Dr Frankenollie wrote:To describe her as the modern counterpart to a "damsel in distress" comically misses the point of "Let It Go". She doesn't need rescuing - she's able to rescue herself.

That comically misses the point of the finale, when she's at the point of a sword and most pointedly does need rescuing. Sure, the film has her saved by her sister, but the post I quoted contends that it would have been just as compelling a moment if she'd been saved by a male love interest, and I personally agree.

Dr Frankenollie wrote:Also, at the end of "Let It Go", I would say that her transformation is more like Sandy's in Grease than transforming into a new Aurora or Snow White. This is not pure, virginal femininity, but a darker, more mature, more sexual format, something traditional Disney never dabbled in.

You're creating a false binary. How soon people forget, for example, Disney's Katrina van Tassel (1949), who made her appearance right in the middle of the classic era, contemporary with characters such as Cinderella. Katrina is a flirtatious coquette, neither monastic on the one hand nor vulgar on the other. Not only did Disney dabble in curvaceous feminine appeal, but achieved perfection in it.

And that's the case with Elsa at the end of Let It Go as well -- she's seductive, like Katrina, but also classy, like Katrina (a princess-like dress with a slight slit and even a cape covering her shoulders and arms). A far cry from the rather raunchy leather-clad look of Sandy at the end of Grease.

It's also passed 10 million admissions in South Korea, only the 11th film to ever to so, and only the 2nd foreign film (after Avatar).

It should be able to earn around $15 million OS (without Japan, and without considering SK's Sing-Along release this week), plus around $15m domestically, ($12m is guaranteed, but its drops have been less stable/predictable as of late). Japan should be able to take it over $1.1b.

Now that is what I would call a milestone. Congrats to all involved with Frozen and it's deserved success.

I'll admit I haven't seen the short in forever and I'm just remembering the book mostly, but I don't think Katrina was portrayed positively...?

Either way, I believe the main thing that Elsa has that so many (modern) Disney princesses do not is dignity, grace; because of Ariel's popularity, youthfulness has been pronounced in many of their princesses since. I would argue that you don't have to go as far back as the old princesses to find those qualities--as far as leads, Pocahontas and, to some degree, Mulan also have them. Which is more impressive considering they also have full personalities (which Aurora and Snow White do not).

I don't see Elsa as a damsel in distress in any way, considering her actions pretty much direct the whole movie. Even when she's saved by Anna at the end, it's hard to paint her as a damsel more than just somebody who just found out their sister is dead (because of them)? Was Simba a damsel in distress? It's been a while since I've seen the movie, so I can't remember: does Elsa even know Hans is there with her at the end? If she does know he's there and trying to kill her, then it takes me into dark Carrie territory where she must think she deserves to die for Anna's death and to save her people since she obviously has the power to protect herself.

She knew Hans was there. He's the one who tells her about Anna. However, he never verbally revealed to her he intended to kill her, and she may have been too distraught by the news of Anna's death to hear him unsheath his sword from its scabbard (despite there being no scabbard to be seen ).

Congratulations to Frozen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Total Lifetime Grosses
Domestic: $388,736,000 38.9%
+ Foreign: $611,500,000 61.1%
= Worldwide: $1,000,236,000



Now, let's see what happens tonight... I'm so nervous!

Btw, I have to add that I find that "Vindication of Traditional Femininity" article to be completely ridiculous. Mostly because, if anything, Elsa is less "traditionally feminine" than modern Disney characters like Ariel, Rapunzel, etc and her design owes as much to those characters as Anna's does; she looks nothing like Cinderella, Aurora, or Snow White. (And I have to point out that female characters, like women in real life, are still "feminine" no matter how they choose to act because what is considered "feminine" varies from person to person.) If the movie "says" anything about a woman's feelings towards the workplace, it's that the workplace is restrictive because it is ruled by a "traditionally masculine" outlook that is repressive to working women. Elsa returns to her role as Queen at the end, showing that when a woman is allowed to be in control the way she chooses (rather than trying to act out a male stereotype of being cold, distant, etc. See below), she is much more capable. Elsa never becomes passive, even when she returns free to be the way she wants.

Also, that paragraph about how Hans represents a much better ruler because men are "unemotional"....

I sat down today and listened to all the nominated songs in order, and I have to say that if I was a voter about to fill out a ballot, objectively, I would toss a coin between Happy and Let it Go.

Ordinary Love does nothing for me. It sounds like the same old U2 stuff I've heard a million times before. I used to love them but just got tired of the sameness. I would actually put that song last. If they win it will not be a deserved award, but then again that's kind of become a staple of the Oscars, so I could easily see it winning.

While The Moon Song is pretty, it's also very Indie, and I just wasn't in the right mindset to enjoy it fully (I'm sure its great though in context of "Her")

If Let it Go doesn't take home the award, I hope it's Happy that does.

In hornor of Frozen's 2 Oscar nods, here is the last time a WDAS feature won an Oscar: Phil Collins for "You'll Be In My Heart" from Tarzan 14 years ago. Good Luck Frozen

^ Although I know we all wish well for Disney at the awards, I think that's justified. Honestly, Frozen is the first soundtrack they've had in a long time that could match the Renaissance films from Mermaid through Tarzan. Tangled, TP&TF, and Enchanted had their moments (to varying degrees), but not up there with those soundtracks.