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Re: Tiana (Disney+ Series)

Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2025 10:21 pm
by Lavendergolden
Disney fans are super salty lol. Keep simping after garbage products including the film that literally killed hand-drawn animation and nearly killed the fairy tale genre. If it wasn't woke, you guys would never pretend to care for this movie which you would hate with the rage of a thousand burning suns instead. I am not one of you racists who only cares about a movie for its skin color thank goodness. Outside of America, we have actual culture and believe in honoring it.

Imagine having the gall to think that the movie that literally killed hand-drawn animation is going to bring it back. It was such a failure to kill the entire medium in the US and people on here are posting post after post about how it's suddenly going to become a movie to bring back the medium. This is like going up to a murderer and blessing him, saying he's the savior who's going to bring back his dead victims.

I have nothing more to say about this movie except the public is on my side and the stats on my side too. Wiki is still free for all the Americans right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... ted_States

Look up DVD sales by year.
In 2009, I see Up. In 2010, I see Avatar, Toy Story 3, and the live-action Alice. In 2011, I see Tangled. Nowhere do I see Frog. It's nonexistent in the top ten list. Look further in the link below to see it doesn't rank in the top 10 at all. Why are people comparing Frog to an actual hit like Moana which is literally the most streamed movie of all time? Is she the wrong minority to stan now because Americans for some reason only obsess over black skin and don't give Pacific Islanders and Asians roles in these remake recastings? Perhaps some of you need to look at your racial biases before casting judgment on others. As I said before, I do not make the rules but I will cite them.
https://www.the-numbers.com/home-market ... sales/2010

I rest my case. History sides with Tangled. And then Frozen and Moana.

Re: Tiana (Disney+ Series)

Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2025 11:41 pm
by Mooky
It's not about being salty but about fact-checking. You were throwing disinformation around and you were proven wrong.

You asserted that PatF wasn't among the top-selling DVDs when the numbers show it ranked No. 9 on the 2010 list of DVD sales. But okay, let's say you're right and I'm being pedantic about technicalities of what constitutes DVD sales. The Wikipedia article you keep referring to lists the top 10 best-selling titles on both DVD and BD, and cites the exact same source I posted links to, the-numbers.com. Yes, you're right, PatF isn't in the Top 10 combined DVD/BD sales for 2010 – it's... *gasps* No. 12! Number 12 out of 100 titles. Such a huge drop from the Top 10. You'd think the movie was in the bottom 10.

But I guess Disney tinkered with those numbers to make it appear PatF was a bigger hit than it was. Or they paid someone to buy copies just to inflate numbers and start pushing the woke agenda onto us way back in 2010. And if only they had shelled out money for 320k units more, the movie would have cracked the top 10. Dang it!

Anyway, in 2011 The Lion King sold way more BD units than Tangled. I guess that indicates Tangled wasn't that big of a hit either when it was outsold by a then-16 year old movie. This is sarcasm, by the way.

Nobody here has claimed, either now or ever before, that PatF was a blockbuster movie. It was by all accounts still a moderate hit and to deny it is to deny facts. It had its fans since its release. It's beyond inane to claim that Disney sat on this "flop" of a movie until 2016 or so and only then decided to push it down consumers' throats. I honestly struggle to understand what exactly about PatF amounts to pandering to a single demographic, and the same claim apparently can't be extended to Aladdin, Mulan, Moana or Encanto? Sounds very much like it's you who has a problem with a certain demographic and keep projecting your issues onto this movie.

Anyway, point being, when you post sh!t online, at least try to have the facts straight.

Re: Tiana (Disney+ Series)

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2025 12:18 am
by Lavendergolden
Mooky wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2025 11:41 pm It's not about being salty but about fact-checking. You were throwing disinformation around and you were proven wrong.

You asserted that PatF wasn't among the top-selling DVDs when the numbers show it ranked No. 9 on the 2010 list of DVD sales. But okay, let's say you're right and I'm being pedantic about technicalities of what constitutes DVD sales. The Wikipedia article you keep referring to lists the top 10 best-selling titles on both DVD and BD, and cites the exact same source I posted links to, the-numbers.com. Yes, you're right, PatF isn't in the Top 10 combined DVD/BD sales for 2010 – it's... *gasps* No. 12! Number 12 out of 100 titles. Such a huge drop from the Top 10. You'd think the movie was in the bottom 10.

But I guess Disney tinkered with those numbers to make it appear PatF was a bigger hit than it was. Or they paid someone to buy copies just to inflate numbers and start pushing the woke agenda onto us way back in 2010. And if only they had shelled out money for 320k units more, the movie would have cracked the top 10. Dang it!

Anyway, in 2011 The Lion King sold way more BD units than Tangled. I guess that indicates Tangled wasn't that big of a hit either when it was outsold by a then-16 year old movie. This is sarcasm, by the way.

Nobody here has claimed, either now or ever before, that PatF was a blockbuster movie. It was by all accounts still a moderate hit and to deny it is to deny facts. It had its fans since its release. It's beyond inane to claim that Disney sat on this "flop" of a movie until 2016 or so and only then decided to push it down consumers' throats. I honestly struggle to understand what exactly about PatF amounts to pandering to a single demographic, and the same claim apparently can't be extended to Aladdin, Mulan, Moana or Encanto? Sounds very much like it's you who has a problem with a certain demographic and keep projecting your issues onto this movie.

Anyway, point being, when you post sh!t online, at least try to have the facts straight.
I have not posted misinformation. I have backed up my facts with sources and stats. By looking at Blu-Ray sales only in the link below, notice how Tangled is #6 of the best-selling titles of 2011 having sold 1,769,368 units while Frog is #44 of the best-selling titles of 2010 and only sold 368,629 units? I ask you this. Do you really not think there is a huge discrepancy there? Isn't that such a huge gap between rankings and sales units that tells you that there's a public disconnect there? That the public connected to Tangled but not to Frog? Speak truthfully without inner bias clouding your mind. Because the gap in those numbers looks crazy to me and paints a complete picture.
https://www.the-numbers.com/home-market ... sales/2010

It can't be that animation only sells well on DVD over Blu-Ray because you yourself admitted how well Lion King sold on Blu-Ray. In 2010, Beast is the #2 highest grossing title with 2,224,014 units sold. Frog is #44 on that same list and only 368,629. Toy Story 3 came out the same year as #4 with 1,924,383 units sold. Live-action Alice was #8 and sold 1,020,164 units. Let's ignore Disney and look at other animated movies like How to Train Your Dragon. Was #11 and sold 906,460 units. Going back to Disney Pixar, Up beat Frog in sales in 2010...and this is despite the fact that Up was released in 2009 on physical and was #6 (just below Snow White) for 2009 blu-ray sales. In it's second year of release, this older title still sold well enough to be #30 for 2010 and beat Frog by far. Frog couldn't even beat another Disney film in its second year of release. What movie did Frog almost equal? The Sorcerer's Apprentice at #46 which sold 350,913 units. So Frog just slightly beats that forgotten live-action which shows you the state of these two movies.

Even looking at DVD sales only, Tangled and Enchanted beat Frog in sales.

I think we need to remove our blinders here. If the film was a hit then hand-drawn animation would have continued. Winnie the Pooh was the last because it was already greenlighted and too late to cancel when Frog ended the state of animation. In no world can this movie be considered a hit because if that was the case, hand-drawn animation wouldn't have been retired by Disney completely. All those other films you mentioned were not created with an agenda. Aladdin was not created to promote Arab Americans. Moana was not created to promote AAPI. Mulan was not created to promote Chinese Americans but it was created to bridge ties with China. That's another story for another day. All those "ethnic" films you listed had no agendas. Disney from the 90s had no agendas. They had classic storytelling designed only to fit on the shelf with Walt Disney's classics as cited by Howard Ashman himself. Each of those films had beautiful parables and morals that did not pander.

This changed with nu-Disney. Frog was made for #2 reasons. #1 was Angelina Jolie called out Disney for not having a black princess for her daughter and brought them embarrassment. She would not show her kids any Disney movies until they fixed this. #2 was John Lasseter loved New Orleans and wanted to set a film there. So Frog always had an agenda, first to make a black princess and second to give John his favorite city a showcase. Notice that films like Aladdin, Moana, Encanto became popular without any agenda. Notice what other DP movies did fail like Frog and how they both were designed for agendas? Raya and Wish. Raya was promoted as Disney's first southeast Asian princess. The film failed (although I'm guessing people on here will claim it was a success) but Raya still became a DP because her movie was created for the sole purpose of that. Wish was announced as featuring an activist heroine. Public rejected this agenda and the film was one of Disney's biggest flops (I'm sure people will somehow call this a success as well) in their failed centennial year. We'll see if this becomes an official DP movie or not.

But notice how the two princesses promoted as being the first of their kind are the ones who have the weakest and less watched DP movies? That's because they were agenda movies. And the public is much smarter than Disney gives us credit for so we rejected them. Aladdin was not made or promoted as featuring Disney's first non-white princess. Same with Pocahontas while we're at it or Mulan. No political agendas or messaging here. This only started with Frog which beat it into everyone's heads that she was black and everyone better be ready to accept this in the age of Obama because that aged so well. Moana was not promoted as the first AAPI princess and this was the age of Trump but she succeeded even then because her movie was not about messaging. Nobody felt talked down to or patronized.

Look at the DP movies and how the legitimate ones all stand the test of time. Snow White is the one that started it all. Cinderella was Disney's comeback after WWII. Sleeping Beauty was an artistic vision that did rehabilitate its commercial underperformance due to high budget to become one of the highest grossing Disney movies of all time (please see Sleeping Beauty thread for more info on this). Mermaid was the start of the Renaissance. Beast was the crown jewel that made awards history. Aladdin was the biggest box office success until Lion King and redefined the connection between animation and pop culture. Tangled was proof that CGI Disney can still make a fairy tale and was their biggest hit since the end of the Renaissance with Tarzan...this despite Tangled being the most expensive movie of all time when it came out yet it still was considered a huge success for Disney. Tangled singlehandedly saved the fairy tale genre with all odds against it. Frozen was the next Lion King and a juggernaut. Moana the most streamed movie of all time.

Even the lesser princess movies have a place in the DP history. Pocahontas was a box office success, had award winning music, and one of the best selling VHS tapes of all time. Mulan was admittedly just a minor box office hit but introduced a new breed of heroine. Brave is like Mulan, a minor box office hit but introduced a new breed of heroine. And solidified Pixar and Disney's ties together.

That leaves Frog and Raya as the odd ones out. They have no historical landmark significance to the Disney company except for their agendas of making the first x princess. And that's why they both failed. If years from now, Disney suddenly starts to push Raya as rabidly as they're doing to Frog now, maybe more people will understand what I mean. But that's unlikely to happen because southeast Asians are not a powerful enough demographic to cater to in the US besides for woke points so Disney can claim they aren't racist now don't ask us about Song of the South.

Re: Tiana (Disney+ Series)

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2025 8:19 am
by Mooky
Lavendergolden writes:
I have not posted misinformation.
Lavendergolden proceeds to post misinformation:
Frog was made for #2 reasons. #1 was Angelina Jolie called out Disney for not having a black princess for her daughter and brought them embarrassment.
Angelina Jolie called out Disney for their lack of a Black princess in mid-2008. The Princess and the Frog was by then two years into production. Her comments had nothing to do with the movie being made, especially as a "reason #1."

Now, to be fair, I'm sure racial politics did play some part in the movie being greenlit, but unlike you I don't see it as some insidious thing, because the movie we got is lovely if flawed, and Tiana, Naveen and Dr. Facilier are all great characters. It's not pushing any agenda unless you see "working hard for your dream" as an agenda.

And you're backtracking again and switching your focus to BD sales when you initially built your argument around that Wikipedia article about combined home video sales – the one where PatF would have been in the Top 15 if Wikipedia expanded those charts to 15 titles. Singling out BD sales means nothing for the comparison between PatF and Tangled. For one, in 2010 BD was still pretty much in its infancy, so much that the-numbers.com don't even register BD sales prior to 2009. Secondly, DVDs, at least Disney ones, used to come packed with a Blu-ray in a DVD case as a way to entice consumers to switch to the then-new format. Towards which format these combo sales have been counted is not known. The best way to look at it is to compare total home video sales. PatF was No. 12 in its respective year with 4.9m units sold while Tangled was No. 3 in its year with 8.1m units sold. Which... doesn't really show us anything we didn't know – box office numbers had done it already. Tangled was a juggernaut. Literally nobody is disputing that or that it paved the way for Frozen or that Rapunzel, Belle or Cinderella are more popular princesses than Tiana. We've all seen the statistics and we know what sells better with the audiences. There have always been more popular movies and characters – especially when you compare older, popular movies with built-in audiences to more recent ones. I just can't stand blatant falsehoods. PatF may not have been a megahit or super popular with audiences, but it definitely wasn't a flop. Even if it did flop (which again, it didn't), it's disingenuous to blame a single movie for the fall of hand-drawn animation instead of the studio that a) made it and b) had and has more than enough resources to risk making hand-drawn stuff every couple of years, without also taking into account market conditions and general sentiments towards theatrical hand-drawn animation in 2009.

And if you truly think The Princess and the Frog solely as a story and a movie divorced from its marketing and news articles about it, carries more of a political message than either Pocahontas, Mulan or The Hunchback of Notre Dame, then you haven't really paid attention to any of them, and this tells me all I need to know about where your bias lies. It's not like you were trying to hide it anyway.

And with this, I'm out. I will not entertain any more of this woke/agenda/messaging nonsense-talk.

Re: Tiana (Disney+ Series)

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2025 10:02 am
by Pokenonbinary
I think Tiana has always been used by Disney, not just since 2020, she has been one of the faces of the Disney Princess brand since she was created in 2009

Obviously because she's the only black princess, they have like 10 white ones, so it's normal the 4 POC ones (not including the new princesses, just the 4 original POC, Tiana-Jasmine-Mulan-Pocahontas)

Anyways Tiana is a great character and she deserves the love she gets

Re: Tiana (Disney+ Series)

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2025 8:11 pm
by Disney's Divinity
Nobody's going to pretend Raya and Wish didn't flop, although at least Raya can be blamed on the pandemic. No, they and TP&TF aren't the same situation even slightly, TP&TF was a moderate hit. And the film was more about New Orleans than any "agenda." If it was promoted as anything back then, it was usually as a return to hand-drawn animation (with clips of TLM, B&tB, and TLK played during the ads), not as "the first..." anything. Encanto on the other hand did begin as "Latina princess musical," it probably has more claim to the idea of it being "agenda-driven" than TP&TF--although it was probably more driven by Miranda wanting that kind of film--but you noticeably left it out. I guess because it's been pretty successful on streaming and in music / merchandise sales unlike Wish or Raya were.

Re: Tiana (Disney+ Series)

Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2025 7:31 am
by Thumper_93
Pokenonbinary wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2025 10:02 am I think Tiana has always been used by Disney, not just since 2020, she has been one of the faces of the Disney Princess brand since she was created in 2009

Obviously because she's the only black princess, they have like 10 white ones, so it's normal the 4 POC ones (not including the new princesses, just the 4 original POC, Tiana-Jasmine-Mulan-Pocahontas)

Anyways Tiana is a great character and she deserves the love she gets
Tiana had a few years where she didn't appear in much products. I worked with the people that make the Disney Princess Magazine here in Spain and Portugal and they told me that they didn't included non white princess because they didn't sell well. The only princess that was in big part of the products was Jasmine. Tiana started to appear later. She had a great beginning when she was introduced in the line but after that she bécame a second line characters for some years.
And I'm not saying this because I hate her. I love Tiana. She's a great character and her design is lovely and really magical.

Re: Tiana (Disney+ Series)

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 5:25 am
by Pokenonbinary
Thumper_93 wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 7:31 am
Pokenonbinary wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2025 10:02 am I think Tiana has always been used by Disney, not just since 2020, she has been one of the faces of the Disney Princess brand since she was created in 2009

Obviously because she's the only black princess, they have like 10 white ones, so it's normal the 4 POC ones (not including the new princesses, just the 4 original POC, Tiana-Jasmine-Mulan-Pocahontas)

Anyways Tiana is a great character and she deserves the love she gets
Tiana had a few years where she didn't appear in much products. I worked with the people that make the Disney Princess Magazine here in Spain and Portugal and they told me that they didn't included non white princess because they didn't sell well. The only princess that was in big part of the products was Jasmine. Tiana started to appear later. She had a great beginning when she was introduced in the line but after that she bécame a second line characters for some years.
And I'm not saying this because I hate her. I love Tiana. She's a great character and her design is lovely and really magical.
Well I'm also from Spain (as you know) and we know that Spain is not really interested in diversity (sadly)

Only as you said in Jasmine, arab so she's connected to our history

And hispanic stories like Coco and Encanto

Wish would have made better in Spain if they promoted her as spanish, not a single promotion here, not a single premiere (an important one, not just the basic they do with all movies)

When Wish was announced to be set in Spain I assumed they would do the same type of promo they did with Encanto in Colombia, but nope

Re: Tiana (Disney+ Series)

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 6:43 am
by The Disneynerd
Pokenonbinary wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2025 5:25 am When Wish was announced to be set in Spain I assumed they would do the same type of promo they did with Encanto in Colombia, but nope
Well, to be fair, Encanto was an obvious tie to Columbia, it even had the annoying song COLUMBIAAAAA MI ENCANTo MI ENCANTO COLOMBIAAAAAA! So the connection is automatically there. Whereas with Wish, the average viewer wouldnt automatically get the spanish link as its more of an average fictional kingdom, with only the "Mi rey Mi rey" Part being the only thing in the entire movie that made me realize there was some spanish thing going on.

Next time they should dance flamenco, eat empanadas and scream ARRIBAAAA AY AY AY so we can get our representation :drool:

Lol so dont worry If you think that Wish kinda destroyed the idea of getting a faithful spanish setting, i mean they revisit Germany twice with Snow and Rapunzel, or France like what? More than 4 times, and especially London, which got like over 9 nods in WDAS movies.

Re: Tiana (Disney+ Series)

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2025 8:42 am
by Pokenonbinary
The Disneynerd wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2025 6:43 am
Pokenonbinary wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2025 5:25 am When Wish was announced to be set in Spain I assumed they would do the same type of promo they did with Encanto in Colombia, but nope
Well, to be fair, Encanto was an obvious tie to Columbia, it even had the annoying song COLUMBIAAAAA MI ENCANTo MI ENCANTO COLOMBIAAAAAA! So the connection is automatically there. Whereas with Wish, the average viewer wouldnt automatically get the spanish link as its more of an average fictional kingdom, with only the "Mi rey Mi rey" Part being the only thing in the entire movie that made me realize there was some spanish thing going on.

Next time they should dance flamenco, eat empanadas and scream ARRIBAAAA AY AY AY so we can get our representation :drool:

Lol so dont worry If you think that Wish kinda destroyed the idea of getting a faithful spanish setting, i mean they revisit Germany twice with Snow and Rapunzel, or France like what? More than 4 times, and especially London, which got like over 9 nods in WDAS movies.
I dont think Wish had amazing spanish representation but they dance flamenco, eat spanish food (in very fast moments and background scenes) and the island is very obviously spanish architecture

Plus some spanish words (and Arabic and hebrew, representing the Al Andalus)

The movie wasn't fully representative but I would say it was obvious it was set in spain for someone from Spain

Re: Tiana (Disney+ Series)

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2025 11:12 am
by Lavendergolden
Pokenonbinary wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2025 10:02 am I think Tiana has always been used by Disney, not just since 2020, she has been one of the faces of the Disney Princess brand since she was created in 2009

Obviously because she's the only black princess, they have like 10 white ones, so it's normal the 4 POC ones (not including the new princesses, just the 4 original POC, Tiana-Jasmine-Mulan-Pocahontas)
I want to correct you here because you said she's always been used by Disney and that's not true because the DP franchise existed for a decade without her. And you said the 4 original POC. Tiana was not there for the inception of the DP franchise. She's not an original DP or an original POC princess. That's only Jasmine, Pocahontas, Esmeralda, and Mulan. They are the original 4 POC princesses. Then Esmeralda got cut out but she has more right to that title than someone created 9 years later.

Re: Tiana (Disney+ Series)

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2025 11:51 am
by Lavendergolden
The Disneynerd wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2025 6:43 am Well, to be fair, Encanto was an obvious tie to Columbia, it even had the annoying song COLUMBIAAAAA MI ENCANTo MI ENCANTO COLOMBIAAAAAA! So the connection is automatically there. Whereas with Wish, the average viewer wouldnt automatically get the spanish link as its more of an average fictional kingdom, with only the "Mi rey Mi rey" Part being the only thing in the entire movie that made me realize there was some spanish thing going on.

Lol so dont worry If you think that Wish kinda destroyed the idea of getting a faithful spanish setting, i mean they revisit Germany twice with Snow and Rapunzel, or France like what? More than 4 times, and especially London, which got like over 9 nods in WDAS movies.
You have to keep in mind that most classic fairy tales known in western culture are either Grimms Brothers or from Charles Perrault or the Arabian Nights. Hence why Germany and France keep showing up because fairy tales usually take place in one of those two countries. Fairy tales exist in basically all countries but Russian fairy tales, Norwegian fairy tales, Irish ones, Italian, Japanese, etc. aren't well known so they're ignored by Disney. And Germany hasn't been used by Disney outside of those two fairy tales, Snow White and Tangled which is barely German in the final movie anyway. So it's really just Snow White. France gets more exposure from the Perrault fairy tales. Also Paris, like London, is one of the premiere cities of the world so lots of films set there (Aristocats, Hunchback, Ratatouille). London gets the same treatment and also because most popular children's book classics are English and thus set there. Harry Potter, Alice in Wonderland, Peter Pan, Mary Poppins, Sherlock Holmes, Oliver Twist, Robin Hood, King Arthur, Winnie the Pooh, Paddington, Roald Dahl books, etc. That's why Disney movies keep getting set there because most contemporary children's classics are set there.

So you can't equate Spain to France or England. In 100 years of Disney history, only Wish was set in Spain and they wasted the setting by not making it fully Spanish. Instead they created some weird utopian kingdom where people of all races live there. You can find Africans, Asians, Hispanics, etc. and it was like no kingdom or society ever before. Disney wanted to have their cake and eat it too by keeping a fairy tale traditional look from their classic films but still making them woke and adding representation that wouldn't exist so we get a Spain that isn't like the real Spain. What a waste of a great country that Disney probably won't return to now that it's tainted by Wish.
Pokenonbinary wrote: Fri Jan 10, 2025 8:42 am The movie wasn't fully representative but I would say it was obvious it was set in spain for someone from Spain
I am not from Spain so I did not recognize much except a little bit of the Moorish architecture. But I remember on Tumblr Spanish users were very upset that their culture was taken for Wish and then distorted beyond recognition. So I'm happy you recognized it but there were Spaniards who did not see their country accurately and were upset by it. Some said it was blackwashed beyond recognition and pointed out how whenever there's any Latino representation (especially in Disney like Wish or Encanto), they always include Afro-Latinos and there is controversy if there are no black people in Latino films like In the Heights. But there's a double standard because whenever there are black films made (Frog, Soul, Black Panther, or even Tyler Perry movies) there is no one calling for Latino representation. They said it doesn't make sense that Latino films always have to include blacks but black films never include Latinos and people only get upset by the former but not the latter when that doesn't happen. If Afro-Latinos deserve representation in Latino films, why don't they deserve representation in black/African films?

Afro-Latinos exist but they are not the majority. Just like white Latinos exist but are not the majority. This is the same reason why the Latino population was upset about Honey Lemon and Sofia the First because Disney was not making Latino characters that looked like the main demographic. They were firstly only making white Hispanics who most people wouldn't even recognize as being Latino. I would never have guessed Sofia the First was Hispanic until there was online controversy over it. So I can see why Latinos are especially upset because in most cases when their culture is represented, they are either whitewashed or blackwashed. They are never allowed to be what they usually are except in rare cases like Coco and now Encanto. That's why both of those films are beloved in the Latino community because they're authentic.

I also think it's interesting that in all three cases where Disney culturally appropriated European culture, they always blackwashed it. Mermaid remake, Frog, and Wish are all examples of European fairy tales. Mermaid was a Danish fairy tale, Frog was a German fairy tale, and Wish was an OC story but heavily based on traditional Disney movies which were predominantly European. They wanted that fairy tale aesthetic with a Spanish setting, which is European. Yet in all three cases, the heroine was blackwashed which usually would be called cultural appropriation but is somehow excused here. People did not notice the first time but when it keeps happening over and over, people have noticed (see Tinker Bell and the Blue Fairy as well). Even some of the minor characters in the remakes like the prince's guards/best friends in Cinderella and Maleficent 2 both were black and so were many characters in Beast's remake. So it's interesting to me that Phillip's friend the captain couldn't be Asian or Native American. Or that the featherduster or opera singer in Beast couldn't be Latino or Eskimo. Why is it only representation one way? Why can't Tinker Bell be Southeast Asian or Middle Eastern? It's this unfair balance that keeps happening over and over which people are getting annoyed by (even the guy from Frozen 2) because Disney seems to think representation means only one color or race. I think this is not just a Disney thing but a Hollywood thing. The UK is better because while it does shoehorn in diversity in eras that wouldn't have it, they do it equally for black people and South Asians because they are the two main immigrants in the UK. So it is balanced and fair there because the UK caters to all diversity whereas in the US, I've read there are more Latinos than blacks and Spanish will be the most spoken language in the US in a few years, but I feel I see absolutely nothing with Spanish speakers in Hollywood films. A friend of mine said if aliens watched the Oscars broadcast, they would think America and Hollywood is 70% black.

What I do find racist is that Disney has never made films set in Africa outside of Tarzan and Lion King. One featured a white cast with animals and the other was only animals. Both are great movies but why doesn't Disney make animated films set in Africa with an actual black African cast? There are so many countries like Nigeria, Kenya, Morocco, Senegal, the Congo, etc. that deserve representation and to have their cultures proudly portrayed. I would like to see these proud peoples in movies but Disney never cares about them. Instead they take European stories and blackwash them without giving authentic African representation and I don't get this. They can make films set in China but not Zimbabwe? The one time Disney wanted to make a black princess, they decided instead of using a folktale from Africa to educate the people and let them know about another beautiful culture beyond their own, they were instead going to take a European fairy tale and set it in the most racist period of American history. The Jim Crow era which was so racist that they hid the crows from Dumbo and blacklisted Song of the South. But that period was okay for the first black princess by pretending the racism doesn't really exist and is just a minor nuisance? The movie literally opens up in a plantation/colonial home that would have been built on the backs and blood of slaves and this is supposed to be a fairy tale? Let's not get into the optics of the first black princess being associated with an animal as ugly as a frog because I could talk about that for ages. This is why I call Frog racist and Disney racist for making it because it proved they didn't think a genuine African fable or legend was worth making and introducing to the public. But Jim Crow America was, which was basically just slavery under a different name and a different set of shackles. I am very suspicious of anyone who enjoys this movie and views it with blind praise instead of derision and shock since it's usually ignorant white people (which I can say because I am white but hopefully not as ignorant) who think racism ended with Martin Luther King Jr. and Civil Rights and there are no racial issues anymore. While also pretending that the US is the most racially equal country in the world, despite existing only because of the genocide of Native Americans and then engaging in slavery as its prime trade when the rest of the world had already abolished slavery.

And finally I also find this racist to European culture because they believe that all European countries are the same and that they have no culture because they're all white. The Frog Prince is a classic German Grimms brother fairy tale and a personal favorite of mine. I wanted an adaptation with the blonde princess with the golden ball but I did not get that. Too bad for Disney that people still remember the original Frog Prince fairy tale and always will, whereas their movie flopped once and will continue to flop no matter how hard they try to keep making "fetch" happen. This is what they get for not making an actual African story despite Africa being the cradle of civilization and where all of humanity descended from. I will not hold my breath for Disney to do something about that.
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Re: Tiana (Disney+ Series)

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2025 12:20 pm
by Lavendergolden
Mooky wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2025 8:19 am Now, to be fair, I'm sure racial politics did play some part in the movie being greenlit, but unlike you I don't see it as some insidious thing, because the movie we got is lovely if flawed, and Tiana, Naveen and Dr. Facilier are all great characters. It's not pushing any agenda unless you see "working hard for your dream" as an agenda.

And you're backtracking again and switching your focus to BD sales when you initially built your argument around that Wikipedia article about combined home video sales – the one where PatF would have been in the Top 15 if Wikipedia expanded those charts to 15 titles. Singling out BD sales means nothing for the comparison between PatF and Tangled. For one, in 2010 BD was still pretty much in its infancy, so much that the-numbers.com don't even register BD sales prior to 2009. Secondly, DVDs, at least Disney ones, used to come packed with a Blu-ray in a DVD case as a way to entice consumers to switch to the then-new format. Towards which format these combo sales have been counted is not known. The best way to look at it is to compare total home video sales. PatF was No. 12 in its respective year with 4.9m units sold while Tangled was No. 3 in its year with 8.1m units sold. Which... doesn't really show us anything we didn't know – box office numbers had done it already. Tangled was a juggernaut. Literally nobody is disputing that or that it paved the way for Frozen or that Rapunzel, Belle or Cinderella are more popular princesses than Tiana. We've all seen the statistics and we know what sells better with the audiences. There have always been more popular movies and characters – especially when you compare older, popular movies with built-in audiences to more recent ones. I just can't stand blatant falsehoods. PatF may not have been a megahit or super popular with audiences, but it definitely wasn't a flop. Even if it did flop (which again, it didn't), it's disingenuous to blame a single movie for the fall of hand-drawn animation instead of the studio that a) made it and b) had and has more than enough resources to risk making hand-drawn stuff every couple of years, without also taking into account market conditions and general sentiments towards theatrical hand-drawn animation in 2009.

And if you truly think The Princess and the Frog solely as a story and a movie divorced from its marketing and news articles about it, carries more of a political message than either Pocahontas, Mulan or The Hunchback of Notre Dame, then you haven't really paid attention to any of them, and this tells me all I need to know about where your bias lies. It's not like you were trying to hide it anyway.

And with this, I'm out. I will not entertain any more of this woke/agenda/messaging nonsense-talk.
You will not respond and that's fine. I'm setting the record straight. How could those characters be great when they'r so controversial and polarizing on Black Twitter? You do know that voodoo is an actual religion practiced in Haiti right? It's a real religion to black people there and not some magic that can be portrayed as evil or black magic. Actual voodoo practitioners were offended by Dr. Facilier being used to villainize their religion as something satanic. Especially since many voodoo practitioners are also Christian as the two get blended together in that region. And there is something wrong when every princess gets a happily ever after with a prince and magical castle while the only black one gets to work for her living everyday for the rest of her life. Maybe I should give props to Disney for accurately showing that the standards will always be different for black people as they apparently shouldn't even be allowed to dream of a future where they can rest and relax, since they're only made to work.

Top 15 means nothing. It's always top 5 or top 10 that counts. This is why people record the top 10 highest grossing movies every year. Nobody says top 15. If you can't make the top 10, you're not important. And btw, pretty much all the other Disney movies actually were able to make it into the top 5 best-selling DVD and blu-ray sales of their years. Disney movies are designed to appeal to families and children so their movies are always some of the best-selling on home video whether VHS, DVD, or blu-ray. So if Frog is failing to get into the top 10, let alone even the top 5, then it's completely failing at its job because lets look at what other Disney movies were scoring with combined sales. Everything that is in the top 10 but not top 5 I struck out if you want to focus on just the Disney movies that were in the top 5 best selling of the year since that's still the majority of them.

Cars is #2 of 2006
Ratatouille is #5 of 2007
WALL-E is #5 of 2008
Enchanted is #8 of 2008
Up is #3 of 2009
Tangled is #3 of 2011
Cars 2 is #4 of 2011
Brave is #3 of 2012
Wreck-It Ralph is #7 of 2013
Frozen is #1 of 2014
Maleficent is #7 of 201
Inside Out is #2 of 2015
Finding Dory is #2 of 2016
Zootopia is #3 of 2016
The Good Dinosaur is #8 of 2016
Moana is #1 of 2017
Beauty and the Beast live-action is #2 of 2017
Coco is #4 of 2018
Incredibles 2 is #6 of 2018

I'm stopping at 2018 because I think my point is apparent. Even Mermaid's Platinum DVD, a movie 15 years old when it came out, was #10 of 2006 so older films are selling more. A Pixar flop like The Good Dinosaur scored higher than Frog did, which you claim was not a flop, as Dinosaur actually made it into the top ten. I didn't even bother including the Pirates of the Caribbean and Narnia movies because those also score right at the very top. WDAS movies didn't feature on the list until Tangled, after which, they all started regularly appearing in the top 5/10 so which movie brought WDAS back its glory? It certainly wasn't the movie that killed hand-drawn animation for good, that's for sure and the numbers prove this.

You say in 2010 Blu-Ray was in its infancy but DVD was already becoming obsolete then and on its way out. Also you forget that physical media sold better during the DVD era so there was more home video sold in that 2010 period than in the Frozen/Inside Out era when home video became a dying niche market. So if Frog is struggling even in what should be peak DVD season compared to films after it, that is another sign right there that the issue is not DVD vs Blu-Ray but that audiences are interested in everything except that one film.

Also what market conditions and general sentiments towards hand-drawn animation did you mean? Because that already existed in 2004 when Home on the Range flopped and Disney said they were done with hand-drawn animation and going to do CGI only. Then they decided they would make another foray into hand-drawn with Frog, claiming they would switch every year doing one film in CGI and one in hand-drawn and back and forth. So Disney knew this market and what audience feelings were towards hand-drawn but still felt optimistic enough to be committed to a permanent hand-drawn/CGI switch-off schedule. Yet, Frog came out and suddenly the plan for a hand-drawn film every other year was cancelled. Winnie the Pooh would be the last one since it was in development but all future hand-drawn films were cancelled or turned into CGI. That change happened ONLY because of Frog's failure. Because before it came out, Disney was ready to continue their hand-drawn legacy so it really was just one film here that destroyed Disney's legacy and pretending otherwise is rather foolish. Similarly foolish is pretending that Frog almost didn't destroy the fairy tale legacy which thankfully was saved only because Tangled was already in development and too far ahead not to release. Otherwise Disney said they were done with fairy tales because they were burnt out by Frog and The Snow Queen (which became Frozen) was cancelled. It was Tangled's success that made Disney strike back that comment and decide they'll bring back The Snow Queen as Frozen and not give up on the fairy tale musical when Frog killed it earlier. So there should be more thankfulness towards Tangled here because it managed to save at least one thing that Frog killed, but so far no movie has been able to save hand-drawn animation which Frog killed completely with no chance of revival.

I've spoken about those other movies like Hunchback in other threads and I stand by what I say that they had genuine representation and messaging and didn't sugarcoat their settings and stories the way Frog did by making a film in one of the most racist American periods which was the Jim Crow era. 90s era was progressive. 21st century is woke and doesn't stand the test of time even 5 years later let alone generations later. And my post about Hunchback was in response to someone else saying what I've already been saying so I'm not alone here in thinking that 90s Disney was not fake woke like today's Disney, which started with the cultural appropriation frog you all worship here. Perhaps because it's easier to see black people as frogs than as actual Africans so that's why this movie is palatable to people here?

Re: Tiana (Disney+ Series)

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2025 2:01 pm
by Disney's Divinity
So weird how you have like 3 or 4 posters all with the same speech patterns and all obsessed with race minutiae. Comes across more like one person talking to themselves than anything else. Thank God for the Ignore button.

Re: Tiana (Disney+ Series)

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2025 2:23 pm
by Pokenonbinary
Afro latinos are very much not a minority

And black Hispanic people definetly deserve the representation, as a Spaniard I was very happy they created Asha, my problem was that her culture was never showed

They made her half Amazigh Tuareg half Sephardic Jewish, but none of those cultures was represented in the movie except few things, her clothes didn't represented any of those cultures or Iberian clothes during the Al Andalus

And it's sad because the concept arts have culturally accurate clothing and hairstyles (Tuaregs have specific types of hair braiding)

I genuinely hope we get a Disney plus show for wish eventually (it can be in 10 years) where they solve the cultural problems

Re: Tiana (Disney+ Series)

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2025 3:04 pm
by Lavendergolden
Pokenonbinary wrote: Fri Jan 10, 2025 2:23 pm Afro latinos are very much not a minority

And black Hispanic people definetly deserve the representation, as a Spaniard I was very happy they created Asha, my problem was that her culture was never showed

They made her half Amazigh Tuareg half Sephardic Jewish, but none of those cultures was represented in the movie except few things, her clothes didn't represented any of those cultures or Iberian clothes during the Al Andalus

And it's sad because the concept arts have culturally accurate clothing and hairstyles (Tuaregs have specific types of hair braiding)

I genuinely hope we get a Disney plus show for wish eventually (it can be in 10 years) where they solve the cultural problems
12% of Latinos are Afro-Latinos. That is not a majority. Especially when that number is basically the same as the amount of the black population in America. I'm glad we are getting Afro-Latino representation in movies, like Antonio in Encanto, because they are real and deserve to be represented. What my issue is here is the fact that not every Latino film needs to have Afro-Latino representation. If they are 12% of the population, they should only get 12% of the representation and not be included in everything.

In comparison, there are way more white Latinos. Census bureau says that in 2020, 18-20% of Latinos identified as white (apparently in 2019, 65% of Latinos identified as white which I think is a weirdly huge drop). So I don't get why white Latinos don't get as much a push as Afro-Latinos do in terms of representation in these movies since they're technically a larger group. But even then, they are still a minority and not a majority so even they shouldn't be included in everything because there's not a huge difference in the number between white Latinos and Afro-Latinos.

Honestly, I'm glad Wish didn't have any real representation. That was an A.I. film and so awful in every way that no amount of authentic cultural representation would have fixed it. If they had gone the culturally accurate route, the failure of the film would just have tainted it so better that a very surface level representation that really doesn't represent anyone was what failed instead. I doubt Disney will ever revisit Wish but then again, they had no reason to revisit Frog and they've been pushing that agenda down our threats for years now so clearly they're not above doing the same with Wish if it's the right agenda they want to push. I saw people complaining that Disney is forcing Wish into some new firework show so clearly they're giving it the Frog treatment where even though the public overwhelmingly rejected the film and said no, Disney is gonna be Disney and keep trying to make everyone like it. Which only creates more backlash and contempt for the movie.
Pokenonbinary wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2025 5:25 am Well I'm also from Spain (as you know) and we know that Spain is not really interested in diversity (sadly)

Only as you said in Jasmine, arab so she's connected to our history

And hispanic stories like Coco and Encanto

Wish would have made better in Spain if they promoted her as spanish, not a single promotion here, not a single premiere (an important one, not just the basic they do with all movies)

When Wish was announced to be set in Spain I assumed they would do the same type of promo they did with Encanto in Colombia, but nope
I think if Spain's cultural identity is that they are not interested in diversity except for what they already have in their country, then that is not necessarily a bad thing. Every country has its own identity, cultural and racial. What works in countries like the US, which are a melting pot, doesn't necessarily work in another country like Spain which has less diversity. It's like Japan is a country that doesn't have much diversity so does that make it bad or sad? I think Spaniards should be proud of their country and culture if it's not hurting anyone.

It makes sense that the movies that will resonate the most with them are the ones that they can relate to culturally and historically like Coco, Encanto, or as you said Jasmine in Aladdin. If let's say Brave is not as popular there (and I have no idea if that's true or not, I'm doing a hypothetical here), that isn't a bad thing. It just means it doesn't resonate and that's perfectly a-okay. Like Mulan does not resonate in Japan for obvious reasons but that doesn't make Japan bad.

I think the fact that Spain did not promote Wish is more signs that most Spanish did not feel the movie was reflective of their culture. They did not see themselves in it and so they did not feel the need to push the movie as something special. Countries should be allowed to decide for themselves if Disney products are worthy of their time and respectful or not. Like Greece rejected Hercules outright and that does not make Greece bad because they didn't shill for a Disney film. China didn't care for Mulan which was too westernized but they loved Kung Fu Panda which felt authentically Chinese to them and made them question why they didn't make it themself. So if Spain did not push Wish, I feel this means the fault is not with Spain but proves the fault is with Wish. It was Spain's Hercules if that makes sense. If Disney was treating Wish like it was really Spain's film, they would have done the premiere there and all-out promotion as a Spanish film. They wouldn't have hired white actors like Chris Pine who have no business in a film set in Spain and instead focused on Spanish actors like Javier Bardem and Penelope Cruz. But Disney did not do this so Spain rightfully felt they were not respected.

Re: Tiana (Disney+ Series)

Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2025 3:08 am
by Pokenonbinary
I agree that wish was Spain Mulan and Hercules

And that China loved Kung Fu Panda same as Spain loving Puss In Boots (voiced by Antonio Banderas)

And yes I agree, they should have casted Penelope Cruz, Bardem and other voice actors from the region, I would have been completely okay with LatAm voice actors but they only had USA actors)

Spain is a diverse country, at least in the two main cities, I am from Barcelona and basically half of the city is ethnic minorities and the other half "ethnic spaniards" (and a percentage of that is romani spaniards)

In my different classes around the years 70% of the people were "minorities" so at least in my opinion barcelona and madrid have the same type of diversity as any other western main city.

When I said Afro latinos are not a minority I meant individually in countries, you're including every single country together.

Dominican Republic, Haiti, French Guyana etc are majority afro for example, Colombia, Cuba, Panama and Puerto Rico have a big afro population etc

And yes I'm happy Wish is not very explicitly spanish because it saves the opportunity for a more accurate spanish movie (the Pixar romani movie that had the casting leaked 2 months ago???)

Re: Tiana (Disney+ Series)

Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2025 7:27 am
by The Disneynerd
Lavendergolden wrote: Fri Jan 10, 2025 11:51 am You have to keep in mind that most classic fairy tales known in western culture are either Grimms Brothers or from Charles Perrault or the Arabian Nights. Hence why Germany and France keep showing up because fairy tales usually take place in one of those two countries. Fairy tales exist in basically all countries but Russian fairy tales, Norwegian fairy tales, Irish ones, Italian, Japanese, etc. aren't well known so they're ignored by Disney.
Well, Gigantic almost would have been set in Spain even tho Beanstalk is a tale that is more likely associated with England. Disney isnt focusing on traditional European settings anymore to push diversity (both a good and bad thing) so Spain most likely will get a chance again by the next 10-15 years. I mean Andersen is from Denmark and Frozen still ended up in Norway. Theyve done South East Asia, Columbia, Polynesia, "San Francokyo", Louisiana and Germany in just the last 15 years, so theyre not gonna stop expanding their palette.

But to be honest, i guess Spain is cursed in relation to WDAS. Everytime theyve tried to adapt a movie and Set it in Spain, it was either trash like Temu Wish or it got cancelled, no matter how hard they tried or how many decades they were in development. Like Beanstalk or Don Quijote. I wish they would do the latter, especially since spanish culture is Literally integrated with the title. Even if they want to, they cant mix the country up there.
I sometimes think of their darker approach from the 90s that cut axed for being too sinister. They said even the people working on that movie got nightmares and  from seeing visual development pieces of it, which makes me love it even more! :drool:

Re: Tiana (Disney+ Series)

Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2025 9:38 am
by Pokenonbinary
A Don Quijote movie with a twist like Quijote being a young girl or something like that (since it would be pointless to make a carbon copy of the book)

Or a movie where Don Quijote is the villain

Like the idea of a Disney adaptation of the famous book is good, but it has to be loose not faithful, we all know the story (the most popular non religious book in history)

Re: Tiana (Disney+ Series)

Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2025 1:16 pm
by Lavendergolden
Pokenonbinary wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2025 3:08 am I agree that wish was Spain Mulan and Hercules

And that China loved Kung Fu Panda same as Spain loving Puss In Boots (voiced by Antonio Banderas)

And yes I agree, they should have casted Penelope Cruz, Bardem and other voice actors from the region, I would have been completely okay with LatAm voice actors but they only had USA actors)

Spain is a diverse country, at least in the two main cities, I am from Barcelona and basically half of the city is ethnic minorities and the other half "ethnic spaniards" (and a percentage of that is romani spaniards)

In my different classes around the years 70% of the people were "minorities" so at least in my opinion barcelona and madrid have the same type of diversity as any other western main city.

When I said Afro latinos are not a minority I meant individually in countries, you're including every single country together.

Dominican Republic, Haiti, French Guyana etc are majority afro for example, Colombia, Cuba, Panama and Puerto Rico have a big afro population etc

And yes I'm happy Wish is not very explicitly spanish because it saves the opportunity for a more accurate spanish movie (the Pixar romani movie that had the casting leaked 2 months ago???)
I didn't know Spain loved Puss in Boots. That makes me happy. I liked both of the Puss in Boots movies and they did a good job with the Spanish setting.

I know Raya was controversial because for a film with Southeast Asian culture, the voice actors were mostly East Asian. I think mainly Korean like the actor who played Raya's did and Sandra Oh as well. I know Kelly Marie Tran was Vietnamese but she was the exception rather than the norm. But for Wish, even if they had picked Latin American actors in general, even if they weren't Spaniards, that would have been better than a mostly white cast. But Wish wasn't interested in representing Spanish culture and it's better that good actors weren't associated with that flop.

Oh okay, I thought you meant that the Afro-Latino percentage was a majority in the Latino population. Yes, it makes more sense to divide them up country by country because they will differ. Especially Haiti and the Dominican Republican which will be at the top then as the majority.

I wasn't aware of a Pixar Romani film. That could be interesting if done well.
The Disneynerd wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2025 7:27 am
Lavendergolden wrote: Fri Jan 10, 2025 11:51 am You have to keep in mind that most classic fairy tales known in western culture are either Grimms Brothers or from Charles Perrault or the Arabian Nights. Hence why Germany and France keep showing up because fairy tales usually take place in one of those two countries. Fairy tales exist in basically all countries but Russian fairy tales, Norwegian fairy tales, Irish ones, Italian, Japanese, etc. aren't well known so they're ignored by Disney.
Well, Gigantic almost would have been set in Spain even tho Beanstalk is a tale that is more likely associated with England. Disney isnt focusing on traditional European settings anymore to push diversity (both a good and bad thing) so Spain most likely will get a chance again by the next 10-15 years. I mean Andersen is from Denmark and Frozen still ended up in Norway. Theyve done South East Asia, Columbia, Polynesia, "San Francokyo", Louisiana and Germany in just the last 15 years, so theyre not gonna stop expanding their palette.

But to be honest, i guess Spain is cursed in relation to WDAS. Everytime theyve tried to adapt a movie and Set it in Spain, it was either trash like Temu Wish or it got cancelled, no matter how hard they tried or how many decades they were in development. Like Beanstalk or Don Quijote. I wish they would do the latter, especially since spanish culture is Literally integrated with the title. Even if they want to, they cant mix the country up there.
I sometimes think of their darker approach from the 90s that cut axed for being too sinister. They said even the people working on that movie got nightmares and  from seeing visual development pieces of it, which makes me love it even more! :drool:
I heard about Gigantic. It looked very generic and I didn't understand why they changed the setting from England when giant stories like Jack and the Beanstalk (also Jack the Giant-Killer) have always been very English in nature. That felt more like cultural appropriation to me because it's one thing to change the setting of a story if the setting isn't that relevant to the story. But it's another when that story is heavily tied to that country's culture like these giant stories are to England. It would be like making King Arthur Italian or Mulan Korean. So I'm glad that film was cancelled because it seemed like Disney just wanted diversity for diversity's sake without it being the best fit.

Spain is technically European. Disney seems to fail to realize that Spain is as European as France and England and Germany, which is why many Latin people don't see Spain as representing them. But then again maybe this is why when they did use Spain for Wish, they heavily changed it to give a North African heroine instead, despite not really fitting the setting or time period and created a strange utopian kingdom home to every race and ethnicity. Specifically because they did not want a European kingdom but still wanted the design aesthetics of one. Anderson was Danish but his fairy tales were not all set in Denmark. The Little Mermaid seems to be Ottoman Greece or Turkey, especially when you look at the Dulac illustrations which are accurate to the textual descriptions. The Emperor's Nightingale is China. The Snow Queen is Norway (maybe Gerda and Kai live in Denmark but as the story goes up further north, we end up in Finland) which is why Frozen being set in Norway isn't a big deal especially since Frozen has basically nothing in common with The Snow Queen. Anderson's fairy tales weren't Danish in setting especially as he created them all from scratch, whereas the Grimms Brothers' fairy tales were all German cultural folk tales and thus explicitly German. Anything with too French an influence (anything with fairies) was even cut out in later editions because they weren't German enough.
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I think Disney is only interested in non-white protagonists now. Since Frozen, they haven't made any non-white protagonists and even Elsa and Anna were retconned to be indigenous, albeit a fictional indigenous group. The closest to a white character was Hiro who was half-white, half-Japanese and that strange San Fransokyo setting because Disney didn't want to set the film in Japan but still wanted Japanese aesthetics. Raya had a similar problem where they created a fantasy world inspired by Southeast Asian culture but it didn't represent any actual culture accurately so Southeast Asians were not impressed. Even Moana is just a blending of Polynesian cultures so I've heard some backlash from AAPI about that and how they wished Moana and Raya had gotten the Coco/Encanto treatments as those movies specifically focus on one culture each (Mexican and Columbian). But I don't think it's just a non-white thing because Tangled was just a blending of European cultures. I frankly wouldn't call that Germany because there's nothing explicitly German about that setting. Snow White was heavily inspired by German culture and the animators actually took a trip there for research. Then that German influence was used for Pinocchio as well, even though the original Pinocchio was set in Southern Italy specifically Tuscany. I'm sure Disney will focus on more non-white cultures and settings but I'm not expecting them to do all of them justice. With Spain in particular, Disney will not do anything fairy tale related to medieval Spain because it would be white unless they do the Moorish Spain period and Disney is too afraid of portraying Islam positively to do that.

I know Don Quixote was a film that Walt Disney tried to make several times but felt was unfilmable. I didn't know Disney wanted to make it again in the 90s. Don Quixote is as Spanish as King Arthur is British but current Disney would not be interested because Don Quixote is still white. It's the wrong type of Spanish for them.
Pokenonbinary wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2025 9:38 am A Don Quijote movie with a twist like Quijote being a young girl or something like that (since it would be pointless to make a carbon copy of the book)

Or a movie where Don Quijote is the villain

Like the idea of a Disney adaptation of the famous book is good, but it has to be loose not faithful, we all know the story (the most popular non religious book in history)
Honestly if they're going to twist it so that Don Quixote is a girl (girl power) or a villain, I'd rather they not do it. Like I said, I don't think they'd be interested because it's ultimately a European story and Disney only wants non-European characters and settings now. Hence why the Spain they created in Wish wasn't an accurate one because they're against anything too white now.