DVDizzy Forum

Well it's taken a rather long time for me to finish this long post.

Lazario, no I'm not. Do not attack me when I'm not pushing anything. I just said one thing and left that alone, it's you and the others who are the ones turning it into a big deal and discussion. Attack the people who really are doing what you said I was, who are really pushing their religion. Anyway, I know what I intended, and feel confident in what I feel I was doing, so that's all I need, I won't argue with you over that.

Yes, God and religion and believing do make sense. I won't deny that not every single thing that has ever been said that is connected to any of those things makes sense, but that this world started somehow and that we came into existence because of some higher power to make it happen does indeed make sense, and other things.

Religion does sometimes take care of people because people following it correctly will take care of people. Perhaps not completely in every way imaginable, I don't know, but in many necessities like clothing and feeding and sheltering.

And it is not a waste of time because, well, we are going to be leaving this world either way, it won't last forever. Your choice is, do you believe in something that will happen after you leave it? But it's not too deserved if you say you are against it, if you don't want it so you don't believe it. Believing does not interfere with living and in fact, it often makes it happen. Believing that life is working for something good and lasting, that things will be good in the end. And you can fight bad things, lots of people try not to be capitalist especially since they just don't believe that's right. But nothing in Christian religion I know of keeps us from the (technically to allow you to live) necessities of life, and even then, I'm not saying which religion to believe, believing in anything doesn't automatically mean you can't do things, because you can believe what you want.

But as I said, believing does indeed do more than effect how we feel (though how we feel is pretty much the most important thing in life, we all do things to feel happy or other feelings), but it can help us to keep wanting to live and work toward something, either a happy afterlife or even just that you are important and life is important, one reason being because it is a powerful miracle that was made for a reason (even if the reason just being - to make something great and good), and not just random. That's only one example. In fact, sometimes it comes to why doyou want to keep living by the necessities and capitalism if you aren't happy? I understand movies and things can give us happy feelings but believing also gives us a big feeling.

As for men's rights on their unborn offspring...just think about how a man does feel when he wants and is so glad to have a baby on the way, and then it's killed. If you need some science, men's testosterone goes down and other things when a baby is coming, but basically as we know fathers and mothers feel equal love for their babies (if you disagree, try telling that to many fathers or mothers, how can you be so heartless in not believing that). If they have equal love and feelings, and the father's life would be equally changed if he decided to keep and take care of the baby, well, that's about all there is to it. I've not heard any woman complain about the actual birth of the baby when it came to why they want to abort or not.

Margos, I have grown to like you a lot on here, and still do, but I must say: Calling a human life, especially a developing baby a parasite is monstrous!

Doctors and scientists don't use those terms or definitions for unborn babies at all!

You would call yourself a parasite? You are willing to say you were once a parasite? I would never say I was one. We must always think of ourselves as special life, because we are humans and always were human. Yes, even that zygote is a human zygote.

Super Aurora, you cannot always get the right impression from the internet, I know even I don't. I have only said what I said once feeling it is my duty, and left it.

And no, it is not propaganda. I know what I am intending and people that make propaganda know what they are, and that's all I need to know, you can't tell me any different, I know what I am intending and you can't convince me I'm something I just know I'm not.

You do have a habit of trying to see how things are similar and calling them the same, though. Please stop, there's a lot more to this world and tiny and subtle differences.

Next, you know, we really can't say exactly what makes us different from animals, especially since most of that is inside us and unseen. I used the word "feelings" hoping it would be enough to get the gist of what I was saying. Not all humans are as smart as others or use much logic, so that is not the only thing that seperates us from animals. The point is humans do seem to believe but animals don't, so even believing is a higher thing, and we feel a different kind of awe and a different, deeper love than the kinds of feelings animals get. Similar perhaps, but not the same, deeper and higher. But hey, who knows, if animals believe in God too, and we see them in Heaven, that's awesome like a possum. Maybe they even just get into Heaven cause we love them. Awesome possum.

As for the mental illness and background and stuff...I was saying, and I hope you understand me this time, that as humans, yes, this is a belief, but, as humans they would still have souls inside, and only God would know if inside, under their mental illness, aside from their background, what their souls really are thinking and intending to do. I see this is hard to explain but I mean, God would know if they love him or if they really want to do bad. And then, if they really, really can't understand anything and really can't choose to do good or bad, then I would think they would just go to Heaven or when they died, God would present them with choices to make that they would understand right or wrong during.

I'm just saying we don't know if they really don't understand anything or what choices they are making, but God does. And when we can tell, well, then we can tell. OH, this might explain it. Okay, you might think some things about people, but you don't know for sure if a person only did something because their background taught them it was right, however God does know. God knows the true intentions of a person and if they do understand and are intending bad or good. I hope that explains it.

As for God doing sick things, I'm not going to go into it but he's done pretty bad things to me. I will not tell you what they are, but at least I am confident in knowing you can still love God even when it seems he lets the worst sh*t in the world happen to you, and I'm letting you know this.

And as for God knowing what you will do before you do it, it goes like this: We have, amazingly, miraculously, free will and the ability to choose. God simply knows of our choices as he knows everything else that will happen eventually. So you may ask why doesn't he just end the world now and judge us? Well, it's because even though he knows it will happen, it still has to happen. If it still doesn't make sense to you, though I hope it does, oh well, it makes sense to me, and one other point of God is simply trusting, because you will never be able to figure everything out in this universe, everything in life.

I thought Buddhists kind of believed it was all God. I thought Ghandi talked about God. I don't know, it's hard to figure out if they are just calling God by different names and different gods or what.

By the way, as for insignifigant we really are, is the massive universe aware of itself that it's alive? Can it make choices? Can it or any other being do what humans can do, talking about themselves right now on a forum? No, and that is the point. Yea there could be aliens. Could be. They would be like us, anyway, but there hasen't been any proof yet of them and that is the point, too.

And yes, you do need faith, faith does back things up. I would even go as far as to say you can not depend on everything you gather out there, you should really worry about what you feel and believe inside yourself, even just what you want. Human desires and belief in itself are very real. They just happen inside instead of outside. I won't even argue about needing faith because I am very aware people don't want to just believe because they are afraid of being wrong, but that's silly.

And the Bible and religious texts are good things to have. If you are Deist, you don't have anything else. But having a Bible you believe is sacred and gives you clues as to how God may be and what you should do is simply something more we have. I certainly like having it.

As for all we talked on war, you and Goliath, I don't think you read my last post where I said I hope someday we prove we don't really have to kill to keep things, but it still stands that all those terrible things...got us great things, the freedom and ability to even write about it here on this forum. All those things got us where we are. Yea it was terrible but it still did good things for us.

Goliath wrote: If God really exists, he's incomprehensible to us; our tiny brains (which we only use for 10%) can't understand 'God'.

I don't know if this has been covered in the last few pages (I really don't care to read every little thing in it) but that we're using only 10% of our brain is a complete myth. Probably made up to make us feel better (hey, that sounds familiar ).

KubrickFan wrote:I don't know if this has been covered in the last few pages (I really don't care to read every little thing in it) but that we're using only 10% of our brain is a complete myth. Probably made up to make us feel better (hey, that sounds familiar ).

That information always made me feel worse! I had such a hard time believing that every time I heard it when I was younger. I had known that was a myth but forgot to say so, I didn't know if they changed it again. You never can know these days, science is always changing on the percent of our brains we use and, well, everything else they claim.

Disney Duster wrote: Super Aurora, you cannot always get the right impression from the internet, I know even I don't. I have only said what I said once feeling it is my duty, and left it.

Lol

Disney Duster wrote:And no, it is not propaganda. I know what I am intending and people that make propaganda know what they are, and that's all I need to know, you can't tell me any different, I know what I am intending and you can't convince me I'm something I just know I'm not.

What you previously said, "It's my mission to help convert people to words of God" (or something along that). Is basically means you're trying get a set of people into a something else they aren't into yet.

Propaganda essentially does same thing. That's was my point when I address that.

Disney Duster wrote:You do have a habit of trying to see how things are similar and calling them the same, though. Please stop, there's a lot more to this world and tiny and subtle differences.

Duster, You are the LAST person to lecture me on having a habit of doing something.

Disney Duster wrote:Next, you know, we really can't say exactly what makes us different from animals, especially since most of that is inside us and unseen. I used the word "feelings" hoping it would be enough to get the gist of what I was saying.

I already said what makes us vastly different from animals. -_____- It's our superior brain function and capability. How many times do I have to say this again?

Disney Duster wrote:Not all humans are as smart as others or use much logic, so that is not the only thing that seperates us from animals.

But they still have higher brain functionality and thought process than an animal.

Disney Duster wrote:The point is humans do seem to believe but animals don't, so even believing is a higher thing, and we feel a different kind of awe and a different, deeper love than the kinds of feelings animals get. Similar perhaps, but not the same, deeper and higher.

That makes no sense. If I have to guess what you are addressing, I'm assuming you mean morality?

Disney Duster wrote: Maybe they even just get into Heaven cause we love them. Awesome possum.

There is a difficult and wacky sega genesis game of same title. Basically he goes and save environment from forest killing robots....

Disney Duster wrote:As for the mental illness and background and stuff...I was saying, and I hope you understand me this time, that as humans, yes, this is a belief, but, as humans they would still have souls inside, and only God would know if inside, under their mental illness, aside from their background, what their souls really are thinking and intending to do.

Disney Duster wrote:I see this is hard to explain but I mean, God would know if they love him or if they really want to do bad.

Disney Duster wrote:And then, if they really, really can't understand anything and really can't choose to do good or bad, then I would think they would just go to Heaven or when they died,

Disney Duster wrote:I'm just saying we don't know if they really don't understand anything or what choices they are making, but God does. And when we can tell, well, then we can tell. OH, this might explain it. Okay, you might think some things about people, but you don't know for sure if a person only did something because their background taught them it was right, however God does know. God knows the true intentions of a person and if they do understand and are intending bad or good. I hope that explains it.

{this respond address to top 4 posts above}
In other words, mental illness doesn't exist despite facts proven so? Problem here is you're making this sound easy on paper, that despite whatever circumstance is there, you as a person is still judge as a black and white concept(good or evil) thus disregarding any of the other that person had to endure through.
As I've mention in pm, this is partially reason I'm against concept of good/evil or the conflict between them. It's also something I'd love to address in my sci-fi series.

Disney Duster wrote:As for God doing sick things, I'm not going to go into it but he's done pretty bad things to me. I will not tell you what they are, but at least I am confident in knowing you can still love God even when it seems he lets the worst sh*t in the world happen to you, and I'm letting you know this.

If that's the case why not just love everyone including the devil that God advice you to antagonize with? All he did was rebel for his own freedom.

Again this also goes back to why I find it ridiculous to see a God as all loving and all good if even you admit that he "done these things". From my stand point I see him as indifferent. A god that on neither side seems to fit a supreme being.

Disney Duster wrote:And as for God knowing what you will do before you do it, it goes like this: We have, amazingly, miraculously, free will and the ability to choose. God simply knows of our choices as he knows everything else that will happen eventually. So you may ask why doesn't he just end the world now and judge us?

go to my next post response below.

Disney Duster wrote:Well, it's because even though he knows it will happen, it still has to happen. If it still doesn't make sense to you, though I hope it does, oh well, it makes sense to me,

I know what you are saying but it doesn't amount to all the stuff that been in said in the bible like God providing many of the trials of his people. And example is the God testing Abraham's faith by telling him to kill his son Issac. If God already knows his faith and soul(like you pointed out) why was there a need to actually test him out. He already knows. What was the point of the trial for his purpose? or how about setting all these laws for his people. The free will we have and the eager demand that God wants of us to follow him doesn't seems to match up correctly. If god was indifferent to us and is still omniscience, that makes a lot more sense of a God, which is what I truly go by.

The whole "it has to happen" ordeal you are pointing out just doesn't match up to it. You could argue that God is beyond our knowledge and comprehension, which is something I do go by, but then when people CLAIM God is all good and loving(as if knowing what he is for sure), that seems to negate that or contradict that previous statement on yourself. In all simplicity, it's broken down to belief as you said before. But I've chosen go by more logical and least inconstant view as oppose to more emotional and "romanticize" viewpoint.

Disney Duster wrote:because you will never be able to figure everything out in this universe, everything in life.

That is true. Which is why I points back to how the bible act like as if it's so true and sure of it's self of God.

Disney Duster wrote:I thought Buddhists kind of believed it was all God. I thought Ghandi talked about God. I don't know, it's hard to figure out if they are just calling God by different names and different gods or what.

Buddhism is bit more complex how their cosmology works and it's different from each Buddhism religion as well: Tibet, Thailand, Japan. When you see the culture influence in those Buddhism places, they have certain deities different from one another. But main core of Buddhism is the philosophical teaching and belief of Siddhārtha Gautama (aka Buddha). Siddhārtha is NOT a supreme being nor is he suppose to be address as one either.

As for Ghandi, I'm not sure what speech you're refering to that he mention God but in Hinduism, there are multiple gods. There is a "head supreme" god but it's not same notion like the Judea-Christianity-Islam God.

Also remember that God is not a name, just a title of an omnipotent supreme being. In islam, "God" is given title "Allah" but the being itself is same as the one from Judaism and Christianity.

Disney Duster wrote:By the way, as for insignifigant we really are, is the massive universe aware of itself that it's alive? Can it make choices? Can it or any other being do what humans can do, talking about themselves right now on a forum? No, and that is the point.

I don't think you're following what I mean. What you're making out in that paragraph is comparing an biological life form to forces of physic. Two completely different things. What I mean by how massive the universe is that we aren't as center attention to all life as we love to believe. When ever we create fictional stories or myths, they are always a center by us humans and revolve by us humans. Whether it's taking on devil ourselves or destroying the universe or comic book(a concept in reality would be comprehensible) and this is because we humans love to think of our selves the most beloved thing created. Bible even make this address: "God create man from his own image". Another instance is like in comic book, majority of the shit even from outer space: earth is center universe conflict.

So when I brought this up it was to address how void of a thinking for a written scripture book written by men about a 2 thousand or so years ago, to say all the attention of a supreme being to pay exclusively to earth or even more specific, Israel.

Disney Duster wrote:Yea there could be aliens. Could be. They would be like us, anyway, but there hasn't been any proof yet of them and that is the point, too.

There is no could be. There is. Aliens does not me humanistic sentient life forms. aliens is a foreign life form. And scientist have found simple life forms as close as one of the moons in Jupiter. Surely by logical deduction by that account, the account that we evolve over millions of years from simple microscopic life forms, and how massive and unknown the universe is to us, there is some alien life form out there millions of light years away.

Saying there isn't any at this point is just making yourself into self-denial.

Disney Duster wrote:And yes, you do need faith, faith does back things up. I would even go as far as to say you can not depend on everything you gather out there, you should really worry about what you feel and believe inside yourself, even just what you want. Human desires and belief in itself are very real. They just happen inside instead of outside. I won't even argue about needing faith because I am very aware people don't want to just believe because they are afraid of being wrong, but that's silly.

I'm not dismissing faith but I only take faith in account to myself, like, "I have faith in myself that I'll become an excellent artist". Not for something I have no idea or concept of grasping (definite laws in a book that supposedly is words of a Supreme being) or something like "I have faith God will grant me excellent artistic skills." But faith alone isn't enough for me to go by.

If you believe God gave you a brain, then surely there is a purpose that you use that brain to make sound judgment and logical correlation and reasoning. Just saying faith is answer to all thing is not going to fly with me or anyone who doesn't adhere to "God's words".

Disney Duster wrote:And the Bible and religious texts are good things to have. If you are Deist, you don't have anything else. But having a Bible you believe is sacred and gives you clues as to how God may be and what you should do is simply something more we have. I certainly like having it.

The point of a deist is believing in a supreme being but not abiding by any written book or scripture that tells you what you should believe or how to believe in something. Most Deist come up with their own theory or interpretation of God on individual standing. This is solely from my perspective, but I find being a deist is the best fit of going by a pure belief of something. it's all from you and you alone. No book or religious community or leader to direct you; convince you; or tell you what you believe. This goes back to why I hate missionary.



wheew that was awful lot of time consuming typing. I think i'll stop here.

Also you forgot to send my pm message

Disney Duster wrote:You would call yourself a parasite? You are willing to say you were once a parasite? I would never say I was one. We must always think of ourselves as special life, because we are humans and always were human.

The peddler now speaks to the countess who’s pretending to care for him
Sayin’, “Name me someone that’s not a parasite and I’ll go out and say a prayer for him”

- Bob Dylan, 'Visions of Johanna' (1966)

Agent Smith: "I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague and we are the cure."

- 'The Matrix' (Andy & Lana Wachowski, 1999)

Super Aurora wrote:I know what you are saying but it doesn't amount to all the stuff that been in said in the bible like God providing many of the trials of his people. And example is the God testing Abraham's faith by telling him to kill his son Issac. If God already knows his faith and soul(like you pointed out) why was there a need to actually test him out.

Oh God said to Abraham, “Kill me a son”
Abe said “Man, you must be puttin’ me on”
God said, “No.” Abe said, “What?”
God said, “You can do what you want Abe, but
The next time you see me comin’ you better run”
Well Abe said, “Where do you want this killin’ done?”
God says, “Out there on Highway 61”

- Bob Dylan, 'Highway 61 Revisited' (1966)

is Bob Dylan your god? LOL

Disney Duster wrote:Lazario, no I'm not. Do not attack me when I'm not pushing anything.

Duster, if you don't want people making observations about you- don't talk about sensitive subjects. Is that what your problem is? You think we should talk about religion but no one should say what they think about you? This is what I do. What I always do. I don't judge something like this for what it is without taking into account the way people use it, defend it, and act when they talk about it with others. I didn't attack you, I simply stated my opinion. Don't like it? Don't address me.

For what it's worth, I still like you and I don't think I look down on you because of the way I see you using religion.

Disney Duster wrote:Yes, God and religion and believing do make sense.

More sense than not needing to believe?

Disney Duster wrote:Religion does sometimes take care of people because people following it correctly will take care of people.

How does one go about following it correctly?

Disney Duster wrote:As for men's rights on their unborn offspring...just think about how a man does feel when he wants and is so glad to have a baby on the way, and then it's killed.

And you think - 1) when a man and a woman both want the child and it dies, 2) when a woman aborts the child but the man wants it - are the same thing?

There's a big difference between arguing that men's feelings should be considered when a woman becomes pregnant and he's the father, and saying that men deserve rights over a woman's body. The two are not connected. I won't say men aren't victims of a society that sends them the message that they have a natural born right to control anything they want to. But I choose not to believe that idea, which I think we both can agree is outdated, unrealistic, and sets up a sexist system where women's thoughts and feelings are always considered secondary to any man who might challenge them.

It happens to be a fact that we live in a world where the majority still consider what a man thinks and feels much more than it does for women.

Disney Duster wrote:Margos, I have grown to like you a lot on here, and still do, but I must say: Calling a human life, especially a developing baby a parasite is monstrous!

Not to everyone. I personally think that would be an important viewpoint to listen to. There can't be just one way of generalizing something. For example; would you have us believe a pregnancy is always a good thing? I doubt you would.

Disney Duster wrote:Doctors and scientists don't use those terms or definitions for unborn babies at all!

Is that really important to note?

Disney Duster wrote:You would call yourself a parasite?

Even fully-developed people are parasites to someone else or something. Do you take this same shocked tone when you think about people polluting this Earth? We're all parasites when we don't do anything to try and stop things like that. When we don't care. Which we don't anyway, because that's our nature. Overpopulation makes us parasites to the Earth, as do all our forms of pollution.

Disney Duster wrote:You are willing to say you were once a parasite?

Why ask a question like that- in hopes you'll catch someone's hypocrisy?

If she wouldn't be, I would.

Disney Duster wrote:We must always think of ourselves as special life

And this, Duster, is why I stand by what I said about you before. Either you're afraid you don't see yourself the way you say we all should and need our support to continue believing what you want to believe - or that the attitude you don't agree with is contagious. That if anyone believes it, surely it will catch on and spread, and then you'll have to work twice as hard convincing us the opposite is true.

To all Christians. (Remember anyone is free to not read this if they do not want to hear about Christianity)
I noticed 62% of you who voted said you are Christian, I wanted to discuss what you think being a Christian means.

I believe being a Christian means obeying and serving God to the best of my ability, and letting Gods forgiveness and the blood of Jesus atone for my shortcomings. I believe it is my duty to share my faith with others as the bible says in Mark ch 16:15, he said to them, “go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation”. But it is up to them if they want to believe or not, it is between them and God and it is not for me to try and force my beliefs on any one.
I believe it is not my place to judge people, whether they believe in God or not, Matthew ch7:1-3, “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way as you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you”.
But I do believe I should lovingly correct those who do believe if it is needed, as the bible says in Galatians ch6:1-3 , “Brother, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfil the law of Christ”.
I don’t think being a Christian means life will be a bed of roses, in fact the bible says the opposite, Jesus said himself in John ch 15:20-22, “No servant is greater than his master, if they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me.”, (v 23) “ he who hates me hates my father as well.”, (V 25) “but this is to fulfil what is written in their law: they hated me without reason”.
I believe that Christ died on the cross and rose 3 days later to save those who would believe in him, and that there is no other way to God but through Jesus, John ch3:16-22, “God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of Gods one and only son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God”.
John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me”.
I follow God’s word and not mans word even if he is a preacher, if he is not following gods word as warned in 2 Timothy ch4:3-4, “For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths” and also there is Galatians ch 1:6-11.
I believe that there will be a day of judgment as described in EDIT:> Revelation ch 20: 11-15<EDIT, but thanks to the grace of God and the blood of Christ I will stand before God forgiven and will hear him say “Well done good and faithful servant”.
What do you believe and where do you get it from?

Super Aurora wrote:is Bob Dylan your god? LOL

No, I just thought the lyrics were fitting. He's too imperfect to act like a 'god' to me. In the 1960's, many people treated him like he was a god, or at least a prophet and it drove him crazy. He even made an album (Self Portrait, 1970) with the purpose of driving away all his old fans. He wanted to make something they couldn't possibly like , so he could start again with a clean slate. More popstars have had to deal with zealous fans, like John Lennon.

But I do get inspired by his lyrics and his interviews. He blows my mind away sometimes. And it's not only his politically charged folk music from the early 60's, but really almost all of it. I think a song like 'Jokerman' (1983) would impress almost everybody, if they realized what Dylan wrote and how he build up his song. Each next sentence transcends the previous brilliant line. It's unbelievable.

Lazario wrote:Even fully-developed people are parasites to someone else or something. Do you take this same shocked tone when you think about people polluting this Earth? We're all parasites when we don't do anything to try and stop things like that. When we don't care. Which we don't anyway, because that's our nature. Overpopulation makes us parasites to the Earth, as do all our forms of pollution.

That's very true. Just yesterday I read this article, which scared the shit out of me, seriously:

Plankton, base of ocean food web, in big decline

Study finds 40 percent drop since 1950s, ties it to warming seas

WASHINGTON — Despite their tiny size, plant plankton found in the world's oceans are crucial to much of life on Earth. They are the foundation of the bountiful marine food web, produce half the world's oxygen and suck up harmful carbon dioxide.

They also are declining sharply.

Worldwide phytoplankton levels are down 40 percent since the 1950s, according to a study published Wednesday in the journal Nature. The probable cause is global warming, which makes it hard for the plant plankton to get vital nutrients, researchers say.

The numbers are both staggering and disturbing, say the Canadian scientists who did the study and a top U.S. government scientist.

"It's concerning because phytoplankton is the basic currency for everything going on in the ocean," said Dalhousie University biology professor Boris Worm, a study co-author. "It's almost like a recession ... that has been going on for decades."

More: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38451744/ns ... nvironment

"Crucial to much of life on earth"... "Produce half the world's oxygen"... And we are killing it.

Plans to combat global warming? Copenhagen failed. Obama's plans only call for 4% reduction of carbon dioxide. Republicans deny global warming. Australia recalled all plans to combat global warming as soon as the financial crisis hit and it affected their industry. The Dutch voted in droves for a party which denies climate change. China and India consist of billions of people who will soon be living and consuming according to Western standards. Cheap and polluting mini-cars are already a big hit in India.

Climate change and the rise of China and India aside, if we keep consuming the way we do now, in 10 to 15 years we'll need five earths. I repeat: we'll need five earths. Already, wars are being fought over natural resources (Iraq, Afghanistan). And they'll be exhausted in 50 years.

Who *wouldn't* call humans parasites?

Goliath wrote:Who *wouldn't* call humans parasites?

Someone who thinks God created us in "His" image.

I put "other" but I'm agnostic.

To quote a film character, "I'm open to the possibility [of God] but not entirely convinced by it." I was raised Catholic when I was very little, then was raised Cheyenne. I lost my faith, so to speak, when I was starting college due to some very personal stuff. I'm completely open to believing in God but, like the quote, just haven't been "convinced" as an adult.

CiciRose, even though you can be convinced, it's not about being convinced. It's about believing in it, even when you have no idea if it's true, but you think it is. There's a lot in our discussions that may convince you of what may be true, but I understand it's a lot to go through, haha.

Super Aurora, well first of all I never said "it's my mission to convert" anyone, you really should check what people say. I said it was my duty to speak up about things, to show my faith, to at least try once for someone else to believe, and that's it. If someone says God doesn't exist I would simply say "Yes he does" and that's it. Or if they say they don't believe I would say "You should" or "He would want you to" and leave it at that.

You two made a big deal out of something I was leaving alone!

I feel I know a difference between propaganda and what I'm doing and if you don't, tough, all I need is to know it.

You cannot say everything that makes a human different from animals, especially if you believe in a soul which cannot be explained. I am aware that there are things that are easy to describe or figure out, or that science has found, that makes us different from animals, but that's not all there is. I don't understand how you don't think there's more, but then again I realize many people tend to have a desire to be able to figure out everything, and be right or done with it, they just want to name a few things and say that must be it.

I think no matter how much I explain you aren't getting me on the idea of a person's soul inside them being seperate from their mental illness or background, and God knows that soul's...heart. If they really can't understand or judge, if their mental illness or experiences really, really make them do bad things they wouldn't do if they didn't have those problems, God would just let them into Heaven, like a baby that hadn't had the chance to do anything, I guess. Once again, I trust in God. I don't think I can really explain anything further except that you never know if under a person's mental illness or background they really can understand right from wrong, but God does know, and if they can't understand, he knows what they would do, he knows their heart. I can't explain anymore. I wish I could.

Super Aurora wrote: If that's the case why not just love everyone including the devil that God advice you to antagonize with? All he did was rebel for his own freedom.

Woah, um, the Devil wanted to be God, the ruler of everything, so he and other angels tried to overthrow God and then they got sent to Hell. Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven, is the saying attributed to him. I'm totally okay with serving God, the most powerful amazing being in the universe and the one who made me and loves me, as long as I would be happy which is what we are promised. Yes, again, it's faith. Anyway, my love lies with God and not the Devil simply because of what I believe, that God is good and Heaven is good and in the end that's where I wanna be after my time in this fleeting world. The Devil didn't make me and everything and all my happiness, God did, so I love him.

As for God being on neither side, you have to admit that some people do try to do evil and there are things that are clearly bad and wrong and should not be done. If you say that you don't feel that some things should be a certain way, and that way is the good way, I will have a hard time believing you. To me, it makes more sense for God to be on the side of Good because we all seek good and it gives God a definiteness, it gives God more weight, than just being "whatever" about everything.

As for Abraham almost killing his son, it still had to happen. Think about how in life sometimes you change your views and you make later decisions. Abraham could have decided right then and there how much he would have faith, love, and loyalty to God, not that he always had the same. God may have known the change and decision were coming but they still had to come. Also, perhaps some things needed to happen so others knew about it, so we had that story in the Bible to learn from.

But what it mainly comes down to is we really would like to live our lives down here on Earth and not have God say "I know all you're gonna do, so don't even bother living." WTF?

And we are supposed to have things in us, or perhaps just our bodies, that respond to bad things and tempting things, otherwise...we wouldn't be tempted. It's like, there's no point in tempting us with sex if we don't have anything sexual in us. Though sex is for good, too. A lot of things that are bad seem to be using what we have in the wrong way, but that's enough about that.

I already said we cannot comprehend everything about God. But you're okay with the fact we can figure out there is a God, and yet you say that's not hypocritical. I believe God is loving, yes, and I consider the Bible as something to help me understand more of God, yes, and also because if God made us, we probably are like God somewhat, because he made us, so he would be loving and like us in other ways. It just makes sense to me, especially even after thinking about it for a long, long time.

As for "romanticized" viewpoint, as I pointed out, that is another thing animals don't even have, that romanticicsm, and they probably don't have believing either, and those things don't have to do all with higher intelligence, but faith and feeling, and, well, the human soul.

There is still nothing out there we have found that matches or comes close to humans (I'm sure you'll debate "comes close" but I'm not debating that here). Humans are the only creatures even aware of the universe, and writing about it. It's hilarious because we are the only beings in the universe writing and thinking about things like this and yet we are writing and thinking about how we are such insignifigant beings compared to the rest in the universe. We are the center of everything in all but a physical sense.

I think it's really amazing that in the vast universe God made people and loves us and the ones who believe in him (the people of Israel, more than the place), and then we have this whole universe as something fun to think about and explore, and we have a sacred book, too.

And there probably aren't any aliens. Yea, there could be. Anything could happen. But I'll believe it when I see it.

I do believe that God gave me a brain and a heart and faith all to be used. I hope you use them all, too. But something I have found out unfortunately is that you cannot depend on everything out there, especially all that you can see because that is limited. Sometimes you really do just have to depend on your own faith and beliefs, if they are beliefs in good things and don't hurt others.

And as I said, the Bible is just something else we have. I like believing in it, I like it being sacred to me, I like hearing some of the things God and Jesus and others say, and I do feel that a lot of it is true to what God is. Guides are nice, you know.

I have not had time to pm you yet because so much is going on and messages to my friends, like you, take my special attention.


Lazario, Goliath brought the things in here about religion that you and he were talking about so I responded. I simply told you I wasn't trying to do what you said I was, so I guess that's all I needed. And I still like you, too.

Lazario wrote:

Disney Duster wrote:Yes, God and religion and believing do make sense.

More sense than not needing to believe?

Yes. There are necessities such as food, water, clothes, and shelter. And then there are the things I think we really need and make more sense to have, like happiness, fun, love, and believing in things like people or goodness or that whatever put us here will take care of us in the end.

Lazario wrote:

Disney Duster wrote:Religion does sometimes take care of people because people following it correctly will take care of people.

How does one go about following it correctly?

When you listen to your heart on what you follow, when you follow your understanding of it, which things you think are right, if you think you should believe it, and if what you are doing, when you follow it, it makes you and others' lives better, if it helps you and others.

Lazario wrote:And you think - 1) when a man and a woman both want the child and it dies, 2) when a woman aborts the child but the man wants it - are the same thing?

No. I would think naturally the one who didn't want it dead, the man in your example, would be more sad than the one who did, and killed it, the woman in your example.

Men are not trying to have rights over a woman's body. Woman vote against abortion being legal, as well. I know I'm not trying to control women when I see an unborn child, even a zygote, but especially when it can feel pain, as a soulful human being getting murdered. Women are in a particularly hard and interesting arrangement. They have something men do not, they carry the new human life into the world. It's interesting because in this way women really are different from men, but no one owns a human being, including an unborn one. Do parents have rights over their children? That's so weird, rights over people. It reminds me of my friend trying to escape her horrid family, saying we aren't considered human by the law until we're 18.

Lazario wrote:There can't be just one way of generalizing something. For example; would you have us believe a pregnancy is always a good thing? I doubt you would.

It's always a good thing but can sometimes be a bad thing simultaneously. Though only depending on the person, for when that child grows up, if they found out, they would surely say "I am, and was not, a bad thing."

Lazario wrote:

Disney Duster wrote:]Doctors and scientists don't use those terms or definitions for unborn babies at all!

Is that really important to note?

That was in case she was considering the scientific views on things in whys he said what she said.

As for the last thing you said about me, which was rather confusing, I don't think I'm doing that, but I will tell you one thing, it can indeed be very hard to believe in this world, but I still am and will, and I have good reason to. I think that's all I need.

As for everyone saying people are so un-special and parasites, well, what it comes down to is people are good but can do bad things. Otherwise, I think you're all pretty much devil's advocating what I'm saying, if I say something's good you point out how it's bad, and there's a lot of MISANTHROPY going on around here.

And for being created in God's image, yes, like I said if there is a God and he made us we would probably be somewhat like him, but that doesn't mean we can't do bad things of our own free will, like pollute and leech off people.

Disney Duster wrote:Woah, um, the Devil wanted to be God, the ruler of everything, so he and other angels tried to overthrow God and then they got sent to Hell.

That sounds like the plot of a rather mediocre comic book, to me. If God is really allmighty and all-powerful, why doesn't he just obliterate the Devil and be done with it? My answer is: if the story went like that, there wouldn't be any need to 'believe' anymore. If God obliterated 'the source of all evil', then the story would be over. Why believe in God any longer? Evil is gone already!

The 'Devil' is a concept that's invented by the church in order to keep people scared and subservient, and as an excuse for people to blame their mistakes on. "It wasn't me: the devil made me do it!" Or a way to explain why a lot of bad things happen if, at the same time, God is supposed to be looking out for you. "It's not God's fault that your whole family was wiped out during the war, it was the Devil!"

Disney Duster wrote:As for everyone saying people are so un-special and parasites, well, what it comes down to is people are good but can do bad things. Otherwise, I think you're all pretty much devil's advocating what I'm saying, if I say something's good you point out how it's bad, and there's a lot of MISANTHROPY going on around here.

Well, it's a nice change from your posts, which all read like the plots of Disney fairy tales.

But seriously, I believe the opposite: people are bad, but can do good things. When I look at what's happening in the world, and I take a good look at history, I simply cannot believe man is basically good. I can't. And I'm not a misanthrope. I'm merely a cynic.

Sigh....I said I'd ignore Duster's post but his respond, as Goliath pointed, is so "Disney fairy tale".... -____- I'm not saying you should change your views, I know that'll never happen but at least make your argument to make sense and consistent.

Disney Duster wrote: never said "it's my mission to convert" anyone, you really should check what people say. I said it was my duty to speak up about things, to show my faith, to at least try once for someone else to believe, and that's it.

But when people don’t see your side, don’t enforce it on them even further. Many people who aren’t in any religion hate that. It gives the impression “you’re wrong, I’m right.” No matter how passive you word it.

Disney Duster wrote:If someone says God doesn't exist I would simply say "Yes he does" and that's it.

That’s right there is where people starts to have problem and get the “I’m right, your wrong” impression with no valid argument to back that statement. What you could say is “ You might not exactly believe God exist, but I however, do there is a god.” And leave it at that. It shows you respect their views and in return they will respect yours without having to think you are self centered religious nut.

Disney Duster wrote:Or if they say they don't believe I would say "You should" or "He would want you to" and leave it at that.

That’s not right way bring it about. As I state before, it’s only going make the other people get even more irritated with you and how you view your religion compare to others.

Disney Duster wrote:You two made a big deal out of something I was leaving alone!

well considering way you say things like I pointed out above, people will get annoyed or find it obnoxiously annoying.

Disney Duster wrote:I feel I know a difference between propaganda and what I'm doing and if you don't, tough, all I need is to know it.

Feel you know? You either you know it or don’t the definition.

Disney Duster wrote:You cannot say everything that makes a human different from animals, especially if you believe in a soul which cannot be explained. I am aware that there are things that are easy to describe or figure out, or that science has found, that makes us different from animals, but that's not all there is. I don't understand how you don't think there's more, but then again I realize many people tend to have a desire to be able to figure out everything, and be right or done with it, they just want to name a few things and say that must be it.

That is true in some sense, but in a way the more we know about something the more or better we know about the world around us and thus are able you use facts to help learn stuff or improve ourselves. Science is very very helpful and essential. It’s what makes us progress increasingly well.

Disney Duster wrote:I think no matter how much I explain you aren't getting me on the idea of a person's soul inside them being separate from their mental illness or background, and God knows that soul's...heart.

You need to explain yourself better then. Many of the stuff you say are very hard to break down how you are explaining yourself.

Disney Duster wrote:If they really can't understand or judge, if their mental illness or experiences really, really make them do bad things they wouldn't do if they didn't have those problems, God would just let them into Heaven, like a baby that hadn't had the chance to do anything, I guess.

That's why it IS a mental illness. Cause in normal circumstance the person mostly likely never would intend do those things had he/she didn't get affected.

Disney Duster wrote:Once again, I trust in God.

That's fine. But don't go saying as if our belief is incorrect or feel need that our statements is wrong. Otherwise people like me or Lazario or Goliath would argue back in our own defense.

Disney Duster wrote:I don't think I can really explain anything further except that you never know if under a person's mental illness or background they really can understand right from wrong, but God does know, and if they can't understand, he knows what they would do, he knows their heart. I can't explain anymore. I wish I could.

ok we'll drop this discussion for now.

Disney Duster wrote:Woah, um, the Devil wanted to be God, the ruler of everything, so he and other angels tried to overthrow God and then they got sent to Hell.

Actually, the reason the devil rebel mostly was that for longest time he was second to God and most favored angel yet he, like all angels, was not granted free will or have choice or was created in god's image. When god gave this privilege to man, this anger Lucifer for how God would put such favoritism over a new and lower life form than his own who have serve God for thousands and thousands of yrs in service(angels). This is why some of the angels joined Lucifer in the rebellion, because of this. It's like your mother giving more care and attention to their pet dog than you as a baby.

in other words, seems like God was being a dick and trolling. especially considering the fact he knew already Lucifer's fate and still went with it.

From this standpoint of view, it seems pretty understandable why Lucifer would want to rebel and desire start his own kingdom away from God.

Disney Duster wrote:I'm totally okay with serving God, the most powerful amazing being in the universe and the one who made me and loves me, as long as I would be happy which is what we are promised. Yes, again, it's faith. Anyway, my love lies with God and not the Devil simply because of what I believe, that God is good and Heaven is good and in the end that's where I wanna be after my time in this fleeting world. The Devil didn't make me and everything and all my happiness, God did, so I love him.

I'll leave that alone to you. Just as long as you understand that we don't share this view and that you respect our view.

Disney Duster wrote:As for God being on neither side, you have to admit that some people do try to do evil

Most of the "evil" action accomplish by man is usually done by a reason or purpose. Sometimes they aren't but for majority, crimes happen due to a conflict reason or purpose.

Disney Duster wrote:and there are things that are clearly bad and wrong and should not be done.

front your standpoint, that would be, but the concept of good and bad is usually manifest from our own mind as a mechanism to live our lives in society in orderly system. Why you think animals don't think good or evil? Cause their minds are as advance as ours to think up a concept such as.

Disney Duster wrote:If you say that you don't feel that some things should be a certain way, and that way is the good way, I will have a hard time believing you.

why so?

Disney Duster wrote:To me, it makes more sense for God to be on the side of Good because we all seek good and it gives God a definiteness, it gives God more weight, than just being "whatever" about everything.

More weight? I find it to give more confusion and contradictions by that explanation. It just doesn't make sense to me no make how much I try. It's one of reason why I'm a deist and not a christian. With a deist, I can say the possibility of a Supreme God is very plausible given the complexity of this universe, yet don't have the need to follow any written scriptures telling me what to believe.

Disney Duster wrote:As for Abraham almost killing his son, it still had to happen.

Yet he already knew so the trial is moot from his stand point. It seems like he doing it just to amuse himself of watching it. That's the vibe it seems to give off. Also even if the purpose was for Abraham to be aware of his faithful choice, what's purpose is it for? To confirm to Abe that he is now aware he is God's bitch or that he now know that he is God's buddy that he work hard to earn even though God already assigned it since beginning of time?

Disney Duster wrote: Think about how in life sometimes you change your views and you make later decisions.

according to an all good all omniscience God, it doesn't matter what your thoughts or decision is, God already knows your shit and your fate. The trial, hardship, and journey for you reach heaven and gain god's love is all moot since God knows your every action and every fate you encounter no matter how much your free will does other wise.

Disney Duster wrote:Abraham could have decided right then and there how much he would have faith, love, and loyalty to God, not that he always had the same. God may have known the change and decision were coming but they still had to come.

Yet set the whole layout of life's history to begin with making the decisions and change we make useless in comparison.

Disney Duster wrote:Also, perhaps some things needed to happen so others knew about it, so we had that story in the Bible to learn from.

In other words give a moral lesson? You could...tell a story just like the greeks, grimm brothers, and many others did to address moral lessons...

Disney Duster wrote:But what it mainly comes down to is we really would like to live our lives down here on Earth and not have God say "I know all you're gonna do, so don't even bother living." WTF?

I never said you shouldn't bother living if God is indifferent. What I'm saying is you shouldn't center focus your entire life and this planet as if you're God's teacher's pet. If God is indifferent, who care's. just live your life to best you can even if God set your self since beginning of time. If I rely and put too much center attention and focus to god and hoping for return reward from him, I'm only setting myself to unrealistic high expectations and only going to let my self down and delude myself.

Disney Duster wrote:And we are supposed to have things in us, or perhaps just our bodies, that respond to bad things and tempting things, otherwise...we wouldn't be tempted.

So are you saying if a bear smells human food and is tempt to go eat it, it's a bad thing even though bears don't have the idea of good or evil?

Disney Duster wrote:It's like, there's no point in tempting us with sex if we don't have anything sexual in us. Though sex is for good, too. A lot of things that are bad seem to be using what we have in the wrong way, but that's enough about that.

sexual nature is an instinct we have. We humans have a moral stance on limitation on sex. An animal wouldn't. We ourselves are "declaring" such as good or bad, when reality as a whole it isn't.

Disney Duster wrote:I already said we cannot comprehend everything about God. But you're okay with the fact we can figure out there is a God, and yet you say that's not hypocritical.

I'm saying it is hypocritical to declare everything you belief what what's said to you about god is true when us as human has no comprehension of how a God would act or behave or such. When I compare, my standpoint seems less hypocritical in argument than the one you're(or Christians) are making.

Like you state as if fact that God is good, but if God is incomprehensible for us to grasp, how are you able to comprehend and know so much that he's all good, all loving etc etc? You could make same counter-argument against me but when you look at the reality around you and the things you experience yourself, you'll find that the belief I stated seems more likely to apply than one you make.

Disney Duster wrote:I believe God is loving, yes, and I consider the Bible as something to help me understand more of God, yes,

that's fine and dandy for me. No problem there BUT...

Disney Duster wrote:and also because if God made us, we probably are like God somewhat, because he made us, so he would be loving and like us in other ways.

So does that mean Animals are like god too since god made them as well? or how about planets? He made those too. or Black holes?

Disney Duster wrote:It just makes sense to me, especially even after thinking about it for a long, long time.

That's fine.

Disney Duster wrote:As for "romanticized" viewpoint, as I pointed out, that is another thing animals don't even have, that romanticicsm, and they probably don't have believing either, and those things don't have to do all with higher intelligence, but faith and feeling, and, well, the human soul.

it’s all because we have a higher functional brain. How many times do I need to repeat myself on this?

Disney Duster wrote:There is still nothing out there we have found that matches or comes close to humans (I'm sure you'll debate "comes close" but I'm not debating that here).

I can still make same argument that there is still nothing out there that we have solid concrete evidence that a God or heaven exist. That’s a poor argument to say that we haven’t found anything mean there is any out there. Did you know that a light year takes 10 trillion kilometers and that light it self travel 299 792 458 m / s? By this, all those pics and discoveries we find of galaxies and space were from millions and millions of years ago. There could of been an advance alien civilization millions of yrs ago before our times before they died out and why we couldn’t find them. The same can be applied to something millions of yrs ahead of time too. Not to mention that we have not found every single piece of the universe, and never will. Sentient alien species is highly probable. Also recently scientist just discovered 4 new planets that are akin to our own: water, air, earth-like environment etc.

Disney Duster wrote:Humans are the only creatures even aware of the universe, and writing about it.

That’s cause we only had interaction with ourselves and never experience anything else. But given basic logic reasonable deduction, it’s highly possible there are sentient beings like our-self (this does not mean they have to look humanoid) out there as well.

Disney Duster wrote: It's hilarious because we are the only beings in the universe writing and thinking about things like this and yet we are writing and thinking about how we are such insignificant beings compared to the rest in the universe.

Again, you’re saying this as if we are only being doing this and yet you don’t know who other species out there could of been. I’m saying of insignificant we are from realistic standpoint. Example, Humans(and mostly religious communities) use to think the universe is geocentric, meaning universe revolve around Earth. That however now is NOT true. Absolutely not true.

Disney Duster wrote:]We are the center of everything in all but a physical sense.

No, from real standpoint we aren’t center of anything in reality. We just wish in our minds we were or still are. For instance, In most sci-fi, and i’ll use Star Wars for example, majority of character and main focus ones(jedi in star wars’ case) are: Humans. Home sapiens. Earthlings. Why? Cause that who we ourselves know the best and can really relate the best. It’s only intelligent sentient species we have to interact with.

Disney Duster wrote:I think it's really amazing that in the vast universe God made people and loves us and the ones who believe in him (the people of Israel, more than the place), and then we have this whole universe as something fun to think about and explore, and we have a sacred book, too.

ok.....

Disney Duster wrote:And there probably aren't any aliens. Yea, there could be. Anything could happen. But I'll believe it when I see it.

You may find this hard to imagine but that argument statement you just made is something an atheist would say about God. I’m starting to think this is really the main subconscious reason why you find Lilo and Stitch to be “un-Disney”.

I think Goliath will take a shot on this one.

Disney Duster wrote:I do believe that God gave me a brain and a heart and faith all to be used. I hope you use them all, too.

I do have a brain and use it. I do have a heart, or else i’ll be dead. I do use faith, but only on my own judgment and goals. I don’t rely on all of those to a God.

Disney Duster wrote:And as I said, the Bible is just something else we have. I like believing in it, I like it being sacred to me, I like hearing some of the things God and Jesus and others say, and I do feel that a lot of it is true to what God is. Guides are nice, you know.

That great and fine. I have no problem with it. But again, don’t say as if our ways is incorrect and that we should abide for the way Christians do.

Disney Duster wrote:I have not had time to pm you yet because so much is going on and messages to my friends, like you, take my special attention.

Understandable. No problem. Fun debating here though.

Disney Duster wrote:

Lazario wrote: How does one go about following it correctly?

When you listen to your heart on what you follow, when you follow your understanding of it, which things you think are right, if you think you should believe it, and if what you are doing, when you follow it, it makes you and others' lives better, if it helps you and others.

But non-religious people do that too.

Disney Duster wrote:It reminds me of my friend trying to escape her horrid family, saying we aren't considered human by the law until we're 18.

Wait WAT?
Is this person confuse with the word “human” with the word “adult”?



damn this took way too long. Please done make me debate back i'm getting tire from typing this shit up. -____-

Disney Duster wrote:

Lazario wrote: More sense than not needing to believe?

Yes. There are necessities such as food, water, clothes, and shelter. And then there are the things I think we really need and make more sense to have, like happiness, fun, love, and believing in things like people or goodness or that whatever put us here will take care of us in the end.

Believing in people to do what is right has nothing to do with God. They don't act out of instinct because they're sub-consciously concerned about their afterlife direction. What we do is based on how we've been taught by observing other people and how we've been conditioned to think (attitudes we get from parents, some from friends, a lot from cultural messages / societal expectations), usually out of our own selfish interests. The belief you're speaking of really has no bearing on the way things happen.

Disney Duster wrote:

Lazario wrote: How does one go about following it correctly?

When you listen to your heart on what you follow, when you follow your understanding of it, which things you think are right, if you think you should believe it, and if what you are doing, when you follow it, it makes you and others' lives better, if it helps you and others.

Faith has nothing to do with that. Knowledge does. The heart is nothing more than a blood-pumping engine. Emotions are from the brain, usually just a reaction to something we perceive (therefore, different people's perceptions - different reactions). The soul is in the brain too. You're talking very mystically. But the reality is much more basic.

Disney Duster wrote:

Lazario wrote:And you think - 1) when a man and a woman both want the child and it dies, 2) when a woman aborts the child but the man wants it - are the same thing?

No. I would think naturally the one who didn't want it dead, the man in your example, would be more sad than the one who did, and killed it, the woman in your example.

You never know.

Disney Duster wrote:Men are not trying to have rights over a woman's body. Women vote against abortion being legal, as well.

That's your evidence? That just because women can be against abortion too, they always have the same reasons as men? Or that we should ignore all other reasons apart from the main- we can't kill anything living that might become human?

Disney Duster wrote:I know I'm not trying to control women when I see an unborn child, even a zygote, but especially when it can feel pain, as a soulful human being getting murdered.

That's the problem right there - you're telling me the cell has a soul. That's a spiritual belief and nothing more. You'd get much further arguing that it's a creature that feels pain, like we are now. Because in spite of claims that it's a miraculous soul and a beaming beacon of light (all beliefs, not facts)- it's a creature for sure.

Disney Duster wrote:Women are in a particularly hard and interesting arrangement. They have something men do not, they carry the new human life into the world. It's interesting because in this way women really are different from men, but no one owns a human being, including an unborn one.

That's funny - because you're arguing that the child owns the mother while it's inside her. The child's right to be born through her body overwrites all her rights. Therefore, you're saying the child is entitled to potentially seriously harm her just to be born through her.

Maybe this is why many people have been raising the argument that because the woman makes the eggs before they're furtilized, that it's her body- her decision. And I hope you watched that George Carlin video, Duster. He mentions that many eggs are killed anyway by natural means. If the miraculous individual human-making process demands an egg - so many of them are carelessly flushed anyway.

Life is one long series of hard truths. Some people face them and find happiness anyway (knowing that there are going to be many bummers along the way). Others deny to avoid unpleasentness.

Disney Duster wrote:Do parents have rights over their children? That's so weird, rights over people. It reminds me of my friend trying to escape her horrid family, saying we aren't considered human by the law until we're 18.

How do you feel about that? The law certainly treats everyone like they're stupid little babies who can't take care of themselves until they're about 18 (or out of high school).

Disney Duster wrote:

Lazario wrote:There can't be just one way of generalizing something. For example; would you have us believe a pregnancy is always a good thing? I doubt you would.

It's always a good thing

That's up for the woman to decide and no one else. The one woman who is pregnant.

Disney Duster wrote:but can sometimes be a bad thing simultaneously. Though only depending on the person, for when that child grows up, if they found out, they would surely say "I am, and was not, a bad thing."

That's an incredibly simplistic way of talking about this issue. You're assuming a great deal. That it's only or always a matter of saying the person who grows up is bad. Not to mention, again you're telling me we all have a soul. So, again, I'll correct you and say, that is a belief and not a fact. Nothing about abortion is that simple. If it were, again we'd have a belief telling us what we think as individuals is inconsequential. Everything is decided for us.

Disney Duster wrote:As for everyone saying people are so un-special and parasites, well, what it comes down to is people are good but can do bad things. Otherwise, I think you're all pretty much devil's advocating what I'm saying, if I say something's good you point out how it's bad, and there's a lot of MISANTHROPY going on around here.

I'm only being realistic, Duster. Religion and faith, as explained by religious people, almost always hugely conflicts with reality. Time and time again. That's a life lesson I've learned. And for a while now, it hasn't been questioned in politics and the conservative media. Things aren't the way they are intentionally by design to confuse people like me. Rather, the truth is- people like me have considered something you haven't. Because I have no power to answer to by not believing, I can look around and see religion and the things that inspire it objectively. My only limit, the only thing holding me back is the law and stupid cultural beliefs (reinforced by our new idea of "entertainment" - everything fast, loud, cheap, one-dimensional, sleazy, brainless, and covered with ads, just like News & Politics are now as well) that hold us all back.

Goliath wrote:But seriously, I believe the opposite: people are bad, but can do good things. When I look at what's happening in the world, and I take a good look at history, I simply cannot believe man is basically good. I can't. And I'm not a misanthrope. I'm merely a cynic.

This one's important, Duster. Goliath's right.

In fact, without criticism of the roots of organized religion and how it's been used to create and govern civilization - people like you wouldn't be arguing that God's message is love and peace, not hate, war, and the things that lead us to both.

i lol'd

OMG, Super Aurora, that was the funniest thing I've seen in a long time! It made my day! Thanks for posting it!

Christian- Pentecostal and proud of it!

The people, rulers & the soldiers mocked him too.
Luke chapter 23 v 34 then said Jesus, “Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do”. Wow, despite not asking for or wanting it!

I find The Passion Of The Christ very moving to me as a Christian. I watch it every Good Friday.