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Re: Frozen: Part V
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:35 pm
by Musical Master
Disney's Divinity wrote:Yay! Now I'll actually watch instead of just looking online for who/what won.
It's probably been said already, but I believe the
Frozen soundtrack is just about to hit Platinum if it hasn't already.
That is amazing...
Hans in the role of the Demon Mirror from the Snow Queen fairytale is a very interesting observation indeed.
Re: Frozen: Part V
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:26 pm
by unprincess
^thats fascinating!
Id love for that to be an option they explore when they expand Hans role in the Broadway Show.
Though now that the observation has been made in public by someone on Tumblr, Disney wont touch it for fear of someone claiming they "stole" their idea. Too bad.
Re: Frozen: Part V
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:47 pm
by PrincessElsa
The benefit of the Hans-as-mirror reading is that, in fact, it takes the character away from the rather facile "sociopath" reading...
http://aeternuslunae.tumblr.com/post/75878400208/
...and turns him into something more supernatural. Which I think makes him more interesting.
It can be read either that Hans is the Demon Mirror taking on a human form, or that he is a man possessed by the mirror's power, pulled like a puppet on a string to do what he does and say what he says (metafictionally, rather the way in which a character is controlled by the writer).
The initial words that Hans says, apologizing for bumping Anna "and for every moment thereafter," factor into this. It's as if he knows that he is possessed and is apologizing in advance for what the force that has taken hold of will, he is aware, compel him to do.
These days, we are inclined to interpret characters through the lens of realism, i.e., as psychologically naturalistic characters. But there's a longer and older tradition of reading characters symbolically, or as being literally controlled by the forces of evil, and I think it's an interesting alternative way of looking at the character.
Hans mirrors everything, even the fauna:
Re: Frozen: Part V
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:11 pm
by Old Fish Tale
unprincess wrote:Though now that the observation has been made in public by someone on Tumblr, Disney wont touch it for fear of someone claiming they "stole" their idea. Too bad.
Didn't you read Jennifer's quotes? They thought about it first. That was an interesting perspective...
Re: Frozen: Part V
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:14 pm
by Kyle
The cast/crew did an AMA (ask me anything) on reddit.
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1 ... _anything/
They claimed ignorance for the one answer I was hoping to get, about the lack of commentaries.
Re: Frozen: Part V
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:43 pm
by unprincess
Old Fish Tale wrote:unprincess wrote:Though now that the observation has been made in public by someone on Tumblr, Disney wont touch it for fear of someone claiming they "stole" their idea. Too bad.
Didn't you read Jennifer's quotes? They thought about it first. That was an interesting perspective...
yeah I know but they meant in a conceptual manner. Neither the interview nor the movie explicitly state that Hans is a human mirror or cursed to be an empathic mirror or anything like that. If that is what was intended as the idea for Hans in the story, they should have put it in the movie, or written about it in the art book or mentioned it in an interview("Hans was cursed as a human mirror/whatever but we didnt have the time to explain it in the film), etc... b/c now someone's beat them to the punch in claiming that concept for Hans in the movie.
But I could be wrong...
Re: Frozen: Part V
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:01 pm
by Disney's Divinity
I might be wrong, but I didn't think the person was saying Hans is literally a mirror, so much as his function and/or symbolism in the film is that of a mirror...?
And I think that can coincide with people seeing him as a sociopath, since sociopaths basically reflect what another person wants to see in order to manipulate every situation they're in to their benefit. It actually makes sense that Hans would know how to work off all personalities, if he grew up with, what was it, 11 brothers?
Re: Frozen: Part V
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:16 pm
by PrincessElsa
Disney's Divinity wrote:I might be wrong, but I didn't think the person was saying Hans is literally a mirror, so much as his function and/or symbolism in the film is that of a mirror...?
Yes, but the idea is also that Hans projects back outwards what someone projects towards him.
Consider the first part of the analysis again:
http://kioewen.tumblr.com/post/74908910345/
To use another sci-fi analogy, it's like Luke Skywalker in Empire Strikes Back, at the cave/tree. He ends up facing a projection of Darth Vader in the cave/tree because he went in armed ("Your weapons. You will not need those.") He projected a conflict, and got one. What does he see inside the helmet? His own face. A mirror.
Hans functions rather like that cave/tree.
The other reading, the (IMO) banal "sociopath" reading, is always available. This is somewhat different.
Re: Frozen: Part V
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:33 am
by thelittleursula
Disney's Divinity wrote:
And I think that can coincide with people seeing him as a sociopath, since sociopaths basically reflect what another person wants to see in order to manipulate every situation they're in to their benefit. It actually makes sense that Hans would know how to work off all personalities, if he grew up with, what was it, 11 brothers?
12, because Hans was the 13th, you know unlucky 13 and everything.
Jennifer Lee said yesterday, the Hans grew up alone and without love, so the reason why he gets along so well with Anna's horse despite being a sicko in the head, is because Sitron, his own horse, is his only friend.
Also the working off all the personalities he grew up, and manipulate them makes sense, if he was ignored, he most likely grew to hate them, maybe even tried to murder one of them before Anna and Elsa.
Plus he most likely did love Anna, but had no idea that he did, because he has no idea what love is.
Hans is my favorite Disney villain,
sorry Ursula, but he really scares me sometimes. Imo he's in draws with Frollo for darkest Disney villain, because of his rough past, he's missing basic human emotions, or he doesn't recognize them. He is more closer to being a mirror than being human, because he's so messed up in the head.
Alot of people hate Hans, understandable, but I hate the brothers
What the f**k did they do ??
What the f** did they do ??
The way Hans is such a monster, they did more than just ignore him.
Re: Frozen: Part V
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:55 am
by jazzflower92
I smell Ron the death eater treatment in the future.
Re: Frozen: Part V
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:50 am
by disneyprincess11
FROZEN Creators Discuss Cut Material & Songs For Broadway Adaptation
Disney's animated movie musical mega-hit FROZEN has been announced to be aiming for the Broadway stage and the creators discussed potential material they are planning to utilize, such as previously excised song cut-outs, as well as pondered what very well could come to exist in the new musical theatre adaptation of the project as part of a wide-ranging new interview.
Describing numerous song sequences that did not make it into the final film, Robert Lopez and Kristen Anderson-Lopez first detailed another troll song that was in the original score for the film, as well as additional material penned for the character of Kristoff (voiced by Jonathan Groff).
In touching upon the additional troll tune, Anderson-Lopez revealed, "We had a crazy Troll song that was about walking in other people's shoes. But it had this romantic music in the middle of it where Anna and Kristoff literally walked in each other's shoes and saw how each other saw the world. But it had a lot of lyrics about foot fungus."
Another interesting tidbit about the trolls that the creators have now discussed is the fact their character types have a basis on Broadway.
"It's a combination of Book of Mormon and Kinky Boots cast members. It's not a coincidence that Stephen Oremus [music] directed both," the creators shared.
Additionally, the accomplished songwriting duo provide further information about an additional song penned for Kristoff that could very well make it into the proposed stage adaptation and/or sequel someday soon, told with a particularly humorous and sarcastic edge characteristic of the creators.
"Jonathan Groff isn't known for his singing. He's more known for his naked buttocks. Ha ha ha. Actually, we kept fighting the whole process to get a Kristoff song but Kristoff is such an introvert. He's the type of character who wouldn't sing until Anna helped complete him and by then we were into action all the way through the film. For the Broadway version you can rest assured we'll give Kristoff a bigger, longer, song. P.S. There is a ballad - a love song to Anna that exists in an undisclosed location
," the pair generously related.
Robert Lopez and Kristen Anderson-Lopez also broached the topic of the cut song "We Know Better" and whether or not it could eventually make it into the Broadway edition of FROZEN, saying, "We don't know yet if "We Know Better" will be included. What you hear on the soundtrack is only half the song. The rest of the song showed the evolution to the point where they split and Elsa became a villain using her powers for evil and Anna was a prissy princess. So obviously, that told us what the movie shouldn't be."
http://www.broadwayworld.com/article/FR ... n-20140212
Re: Frozen: Part V
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:30 am
by unprincess
Jennifer Lee said yesterday, the Hans grew up alone and without love, so the reason why he gets along so well with Anna's horse despite being a sicko in the head, is because Sitron, his own horse, is his only friend.
do you have a link to this interview? I would love to read it!
can someone explain the Ron the Deatheater trope? Ive never heard of it( I have heard only of Draco in Leather Pants.)
Re: Frozen: Part V
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:14 pm
by jazzflower92
unprincess wrote:Jennifer Lee said yesterday, the Hans grew up alone and without love, so the reason why he gets along so well with Anna's horse despite being a sicko in the head, is because Sitron, his own horse, is his only friend.
do you have a link to this interview? I would love to read it!
can someone explain the Ron the Deatheater trope? Ive never heard of it( I have heard only of Draco in Leather Pants.)
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... DeathEater
A canonical character is turned more evil in fan works.
Re: Frozen: Part V
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:19 pm
by thedisneyspirit
unprincess, it's pretty much the opposite of Draco in Leather Pants. Whereas in DILP a villainous character is given "redeemable" traits by the fandom to justify his actions/their liking to him, RTDE is turning a good character of an original series into a horrible monster in fandom.
Disney example: Mother Gothel apologists who claim she loved Rapunzel all along and wasn't abusing her (Draco in Leather). Or people who claim Esmeralda is a shallow slut just because she chose Phoebus over Quasi (Ron).
Re: Frozen: Part V
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:49 pm
by PrincessElsa
unprincess wrote:Jennifer Lee said yesterday, the Hans grew up alone and without love, so the reason why he gets along so well with Anna's horse despite being a sicko in the head, is because Sitron, his own horse, is his only friend.
do you have a link to this interview? I would love to read it!
There was no interview, just a Reddit chat:
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1 ... _anything/
And Jennifer Lee made no mention of Hans's horse being his only friend, not did she call him a "sicko." What she simply said was:
I think Hans is a tragic figure because he's a consequence of being raised without love.
Re: Frozen: Part V
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:46 pm
by unprincess
^ thanks for the link(plan to read the chat later on)
& the explanation for RTDE. Though I dont think it applies to Hans in the case of the mirror analogy as it seems to be an excuse as to why he was the way he was. Hans in much the fandom seems to be getting the DILP treatment.
EDIT: heh, the glove thing is interesting too....
Re: Frozen: Part V
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:05 pm
by thedisneyspirit
Yeah, Hans is getting the Loki treatment a lot.
Re: Frozen: Part V
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:32 pm
by disneyprincess11
Looks like FROZEN IS getting a sequel. Someone on Tumblr said they just announced it on ET.
Re: Frozen: Part V
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:50 pm
by Musical Master
Re: Frozen: Part V
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:17 pm
by Warm Regards
Well, I saw someone on Tumblr "announce" an Incredibles 2, doesn't mean it's true.
Plus this is way, way too soon in my opinion. Will do further research into this.
