DVDizzy Forum

I believe everyone is entitled to believe in whatever and whomever they want, as long as you wont judge other people BECAUSE of YOUR religion.

Me, myself, I try to believe in my own power and those around me. Nu judgement, whatsoever.

As a Christian, it is my duty to say to you, you should believe in God's power. But, also as a Christian, I think, it's up to God to judge after that, and so, that is all I will say about that.

Now to the rest.

Okay, we cannot understand all of God, but that doesn't mean we can't understand some of him. One belief is that he made us in his image, meaning we are like him, but also vice versa. We are the highest beings on Earth, and he is the highest in the universe. He would be something, sorta, like us, including having feelings, the highest things to have. But I think there may be the possibility some of the people who wrote the Bible may have written some things about him that just ain't true.

ajmrowland wrote:How do we even know the Devil's "The Enemy". He could just be God's whipholder/prison matron. considering "sinning", no matter what it is or the size of it will have us banished to hell, there'd have to be some mutual agreement.

Well, God is more powerful than the Devil. He let the Devil live to see what the others on Earth would do, to see which side they would choose, which people wanted to truly be with him.

The Bible, as far as I know, does not tell us which church to follow and believe in. So, essentially, if you aren't happy with the churches, create your own or find one that does. That's why there are very accepting churches these days. So that goes for all decisions, what books should be in the Bible, etc. But you also gotta think, which should you follow, which makes the most sense. And in a sense, the strictest does seem the safest and most sense-making, but if it makes you miserable and it doesn't make sense, then find the ones that make you happy and make sense to you.

Now particularly to Goliath but also everyone, first, you only find out more and more history and information as you go along, as well as your understanding of the Bible (which also depends on the translations!). You really can't go on only facts and things, you really don't know everything, or for sure. If your opinions on religion and life only came from what you know (or think you know) are the facts so far about the past and everything, that is limited. You do need faith, because we simply do not know everything about the past or this vast universe. It really does take some pure thinking on what makes sense, believing, and listening to your heart.

Next, when people thank God for things, well, for one, they could simply be thanking God for life, which made them feel such happy things at all, but also, who knows if God did help them get things? In stardom especially, sometimes it really does take luck. Not because you suck, you probably are talented, but sometimes it takes luck for people to find or discover your talent, and you still thank God for giving you that talent, for making you.

Who knows if God does reward us here on Earth or not. It's a belief. Like, you know, all the rest of it.

I proudly believe in it. I don't think it happens all the time. I think life and God are confusing and of course not completely understandable. But I still believe it happens, I think it does even happen in the Bible. I believe in miracles, too.

And just as a by the way, not to make anyone do anything, just a little connection I'm making, it seems Walt Disney did believe it too, and showed it in his films, and it may have been carried on through today's Disney films as well.

Disney Duster wrote:You do need faith

Sorry, Dust, but I think you're projecting a need you feel yourself onto others. And it sure sounds noble. But it's about you, not anyone else.

Disney Duster wrote:I think life and God are confusing and of course not completely understandable.

Technically, that's not a problem. There is no pressure on us to figure it out. Religion is something many people are fed and not expected to question *. As a matter of fact, isn't it preached somewhere that if you question the existence of God- you won't be forgiven?

In the meantime, life and God are separate. If you believe they're not, then religion means absolutely nothing. Because then, God judges randomly and isn't consistent with your afterlife. There sure is no consistency to life on Earth- it just happens how it happens. If that's your belief, I feel sorry for you. It doesn't seem to hold a lot of promise.


* And - by the by - that's one of the reasons we need to fight religion in this country. People believe things too easily, too quickly. They don't earn knowledge, they let fear (why we don't have legitimate Separation of Church and State in this nation- they convince others to share the same fear that if they give America a freedom Their version of The Bible is sketchy on, God will punish them for it) and selfishness (the way Straight People want to Own marriage and White People want to own civil rights and Republicans want to own reproductive rights of women- so they don't have to "give" anyone anything if they decide they don't want to) drive their beliefs. And the rest of us suffer for it.

Question existence and destiny though some of us may, one thing is for certain. Too many people are abusing faith. There is no sharing a belief in God anymore without recognizing the pollution of religion. They go hand-in-hand. Religious people should be tooth-and-nail fighting the people who give it a bad name. But that's the one thing I can't tell you they're doing. All I see instead is you trying to convince those of us who question it that there is a solid foundation for it (even though it remains on shaky ground now) and other people condemning everyone who isn't them.

Disney Duster wrote:As a Christian, it is my duty to say to you, you should believe in God's power. But, also as a Christian, I think, it's up to God to judge after that, and so, that is all I will say about that.

as a Christian, you're duty is to be a good person and a good role model, but that doesnt mean you have to force your religious beliefs on others.

Disney Duster wrote:Okay, we cannot understand all of God, but that doesn't mean we can't understand all of him.

that one statement in itself is confusing.

He would be something, sorta, like us, including having feelings, the highest things to have.

but animals have feelings, which means they're not the highest things to have. what separates us from them is our ability to learn and overcome many of our feelings.

But I think there may be the possibility some of the people who wrote the Bible may have written some things about him that just ain't true.

ok, not a flawed statement there

ajmrowland wrote:How do we even know the Devil's "The Enemy". He could just be God's whipholder/prison matron. considering "sinning", no matter what it is or the size of it will have us banished to hell, there'd have to be some mutual agreement.

Well, God is more powerful than the Devil. He let the Devil live to see what the others on Earth would do, to see which side they would choose, which people wanted to truly be with him.

but nobody "chooses" the devil. nobody chooses the side they think is evil. and that still doesnt always make them a bad person as much as someone who's done bad things. that's just it. and while God is more powerful than the devil, once again, you display no evidence to back you up.

Now particularly to Goliath but also everyone, first, you only find out more and more history and information as you go along, as well as your understanding of the Bible (which also depends on the translations!). You really can't go on only facts and things, you really don't know everything, or for sure. You do need faith, because we simply do not know everything about the past or this vast universe. It really does take some pure thinking on what makes sense, believing, and listening to your heart.

done that. I've compared current events to past ones, and religions to one another. many wars were started because religious people said "I'm right. you're wrong" and killed anyone who didnt believe the things they did. while it's true we need faith, we can do without the blindness, corruption, and violence that comes with it.

Next, when people thank God for things, well, for one, they could simply be thanking God for life, which made them feel such happy things at all, but also, who knows if God did help them get things? In stardom especially, sometimes it really does take luck. Not because you suck, you probably are talented, but sometimes it takes luck for people to find or discover your talent, and you still thank God for giving you that talent, for making you.

I guess so. makes me wonder how this process of random selection works.

Who knows if God does reward us here on Earth or not. It's a belief. Like, you know, all the rest of it.

I proudly believe in it. I don't think it happens all the time. I think life and God are confusing and of course not completely understandable. But I still believe it happens, I think it does even happen in the Bible. I believe in miracles, too.

perhaps, but nowadays, if a bush sponaneously combusts and starts talking to you, that's considered a bad sign.

but miracles might happen sometimes.

Lazario wrote:

Disney Duster wrote:You do need faith

Sorry, Dust, but I think you're projecting a need you feel yourself onto others. And it sure sounds noble. But it's about you, not anyone else.

Nope, I'm not. I'm just saying what I can on a forum where you're supposed to say what you feel and think or know is right.

Lazario wrote:As a matter of fact, isn't it preached somewhere that if you question the existence of God- you won't be forgiven?

Not that I know of, but at least, not in my religion as my own priest told me we could question and doubt, probably especially since we can't help it.

In the meantime, life and God are separate. If you believe they're not, then religion means absolutely nothing. Because then, God judges randomly and isn't consistent with your afterlife. There sure is no consistency to life on Earth- it just happens how it happens. If that's your belief, I feel sorry for you. It doesn't seem to hold a lot of promise.[/quote]
Nope. I definately believe God and life are not seperate. Oh, wait, I think I see what you mean. You're saying that if I believe God and life are together, it means the bad and good things happening that seem random would mean God randomly decides as well. No, I believe God and life are not seperate in the way that God is what made life, well, happen and exist, and he lets what happens in life happen. Fo instance, he lets monsoons happen, but he won't let us fly, unless we scientifically figure that out someday, but we can't naturally. Bad things must happen to good people because if they didn't people would not be tested and would not choose to still be good and love God even when bad things happened to them. It is about, will you only love or believe in God if your life is always sunshine and rainbows? Heaven is for the afterlife, not now.

ajmrowland wrote:

Disney Duster wrote:As a Christian, it is my duty to say to you, you should believe in God's power. But, also as a Christian, I think, it's up to God to judge after that, and so, that is all I will say about that.

as a Christian, you're duty is to be a good person and a good role model, but that doesnt mean you have to force your religious beliefs on others.

I'm not, and no, one of my duties as a Chrisitian is indeed to try and get other people to be Christians. To at least try.

ajmrowland wrote:

Disney Duster wrote:Okay, we cannot understand all of God, but that doesn't mean we can't understand all of him.

that one statement in itself is confusing.

Indeed you are right there, I corrected the mistake, I meant to say we can still understand some of God.

ajmrowland wrote:

Disney Duster wrote:He would be something, sorta, like us, including having feelings, the highest things to have.

but animals have feelings, which means they're not the highest things to have. what separates us from them is our ability to learn and overcome many of our feelings.

No, animals do not have the same kinds of feelings as we do. There are many kinds of things out there, one words does not mean only one definition. Animals do not have the same feelings of, say, romance, or of, say, God. I suppose we don't know that for sure, but we do know they don't have certain other, higher feelings, like more understanding of God, or of telling dramatic stories. And about overcoming our feelings...no, um, our goal is to feel happy, ajm!

ajmrowland wrote:but nobody "chooses" the devil. nobody chooses the side they think is evil. and that still doesnt always make them a bad person as much as someone who's done bad things. that's just it. and while God is more powerful than the devil, once again, you display no evidence to back you up.

When people do bad things that they know are bad, they are choosing the Devil's side, especially when others have taught them that all bad is governed by the Devil and will get you to his side, so then doing the bad knowing it will be joining his side is joining it. At least that's one belief I'm talking about. And yes God is more powerful than the Devil. Once agin it's a belief, just like believing in God or the Devil in the first place, it's the belief we hold to be true especially since God said it in the Bible. If you don't want to believe that, um, God won't like that, that's bad.

ajmrowland wrote:I've compared current events to past ones, and religions to one another. many wars were started because religious people said "I'm right. you're wrong" and killed anyone who didnt believe the things they did. while it's true we need faith, we can do without the blindness, corruption, and violence that comes with it.

Wait a minute...didn't war give us this beautiful country, freedom for us and freedom for the slaves?

I'm sorry if and I know I interrupted a serious matter , but I want to say something. My religion is Christian. While I may not consider myself a good Christian, I do consider myself a "real" Christian. I believe in God the Father, the Almighty and the Omniscent. I believe in Jesus, his son, our King, who was crucified, died and was buried, and rose from the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, our Advocate. I believe in and not only do I try to go to Church and succeed, I almost altar-served every week this Summer. I believe in the Communion of Saints. I also have three Bibles, and say my prayers every night. I know God loves me and I love Him. However, I am in life after death. True, I know that good people go to Heaven and bad people go to the other place, and OK people go to Purgatory, but I still wonder about it. May God Bless and Keep You! Please do not ban me!

Disney Duster wrote: Nope, I'm not. I'm just saying what I can on a forum where you're supposed to say what you feel and think or know is right.

That's fine and all just don't act upon it as if you're shoving your beliefs in our face...
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Disney Duster wrote: I'm not, and no, one of my duties as a Chrisitian is indeed to try and get other people to be Christians. To at least try.

Know what I mean?

And that's one of main reason people like us are turned off and are annoyed with religion or in this case, Christianity. No one needs some to persuade someone into something. Let that person decide or get into it themselves. What you're doing is no different from what propaganda does: convince people into something.

Disney Duster wrote: No, animals do not have the same kinds of feelings as we do. There are many kinds of things out there, one words does not mean only one definition. Animals do not have the same feelings of, say, romance, or of, say, God.

no, main difference between Humans and animals is that Animals live by instincts and we govern ourselves by reasons. This is main difference why We go by concept of "good" and "evil". The concept of good and evil is a concept the society of humans came up on their own for thousands and thousands of years as a justify means of categorizing stuff we should or should not do.

Animals don't do that since they govern by instinct and by laws of nature.
For instant, Chimpanzee, would go and eat their own kind's babies(or even human ones), but to us that is an immoral and obscene thing to our eyes and thus we view it as "evil". An animal would not see that.

But both animals and humans have basic feelings such as fear, upset, aggression, happiness, etc. Hell, a chameleon changes it's colors because of it's mood of feelings it's expressing.

Disney Duster wrote: I suppose we don't know that for sure, but we do know they don't have certain other, higher feelings, like more understanding of God, or of telling dramatic stories.

again, that all due to long line of evolution and took progression for millions and millions of years that we evolve from animals(intelligence) which enable us to create such concept of a god or to make music or tell stories. And most of that is started as a means to reason how something came about. No one knew how life started, and so the concept of a god(s) started about as an alternate means of some being who start it all. It's in all religion from Egyptians to Christianity to Shinto .

Disney Duster wrote:When people do bad things that they know are bad, they are choosing the Devil's side, especially when others have taught them that all bad is governed by the Devil and will get you to his side, so then doing the bad knowing it will be joining his side is joining it.

One, not everyone believe in the devil(meaning not everyone is a christian).

two, you dismiss other circumstance like: what if the man/woman have mental illness and can't see or judge upon what he/she is doing is morally correct? or social background?

Disney Duster wrote:And yes God is more powerful than the Devil. Once again it's a belief, just like believing in God or the Devil in the first place, it's the belief we hold to be true especially since God said it in the Bible. If you don't want to believe that, um, God won't like that, that's bad.

How is it's bad if someone don't believe in God? By that logic does that mean hindu, buddhist, shinto, etc are bad?

Already concept ideas like that(the bold) is the reason why many of these religious wars or fights start in first place.

Disney Duster wrote:Wait a minute...didn't war give us this beautiful country, freedom for us and freedom for the slaves?

Actually two misunderstanding here:
1.) The colonist didn't initially wanted war or to break away from England in fact. What they wanted was for the king to break away his unfair governing over the colonist like the ridiculous taxing or quartering soldiers etc. The war only grew on and we decided to become independent only after the war started (Declaration of Independence).

2.)Civil War was NOT a war for freedom of slaves. The war purpose was to bring the southern states back. The freedom for slaves only happen in the aftermath of the war during reconstruction era. (which actually in a way, made things worse for the blacks)

I agree about helping people find their spirtual side of hopefully Jesus...but at the end of the day it's up to them.

Also I disagree with some part of other Christians using this line

"Christian" What if we're right about Jesus and you're wrong about Jesus?


now you see to me that just sounds like a lottery..join God just in case...and if you have use that line the only one who can help them is Jesus besides when you use that line about right or wrong what if it sounds more like a lottery to heaven....which I don't think is the right approach....idk it's just my opinion as a Christian myself...

Disney Duster wrote:Wait a minute...didn't war give us this beautiful country, freedom for us

No, the genocide on the indigenous people (the 'Indians') gave 'you' this country and your freedom. (Although "freedom" wouldn't be the word you would use if you followed the news closely enough.)

Lazario wrote: and Republicans want to own reproductive rights of women

Do you honestly think it's about that??

It's because Christians view a "fetus" as a human life, and to abort it is murder. It has nothing to do with "controlling" the reproductive rights of women (and on a side note, why aren't there reproductive rights for men?)*

I think I've posted something like this before, but here goes:

If a parent took their 6-month-old child and bashed it's head against the wall, would you consider that murder?

What about someone throwing their newborn in the dumpster?

Is there some magical "pubic fairy" that gives a baby a soul when it passes through the birth canal? If not, then what is the difference between a full-term unborn child and a newborn baby?

What if someone assaults a pregnant woman, either killing her, or causing her to miscarry? Is that murder of the baby? I think there are legal precedents that have shown it to be murder, I'm not 100% sure.

Assuming that you don't believe in the "pubic fairy" and think that at some point the "fetus" is a human being instead of a growth, at what point do you think so?

• When it starts kicking and moving?
• When it has it's own heartbeat?
• When there is a good chance it would be viable outside the womb (about 5 months)?
• When it can feel pain?
• When it has brainwaves?

=======


*
Reproductive rights for men (for the sake of argument.)
Why can't the father insist that the baby be kept (and raised by him, if the woman doesn't want it)?
Conversely, why couldn't the man insist on an abortion, or if the woman refuses and keeps the baby, he is released from child support?
What about a man who is using birth control and/or is told the woman is using birth control, but she pokes a hole in the condom or has sabotaged her own birth control? Is the man then forced to make payments for 18 years?

A man's "reproductive right" is to walk away and deny everything.

Anyway, if a thing cannot live without a host, that thing is a parasite. Only a viable organism capable of living independently (like a third-trimester fetus) can be considered functionally alive.



And true 'dat, Goliath. True 'dat.

Super Aurora, I am not pushing my religion on anyone. I am simply saying "You should believe, this is right, as I believe." And that's it. And I am leaving it at that. I feel it is my duty.

Come on, you know I could do worse, you know there are people that would be much worse than me about that. All I am saying is that thing. It certainly is different from propaganda. I explain why I believe what I believe and think it is right, and I let people decide from there.

I will not change how I feel about that.

As for humans and feelings, yes, human feel things that are different from animals. Perhaps the feeling of awe, but definately, other, higher senses. You cannot deny either that the things I said, creating dramatic stories or understanding God more, are also part of being human instead of animal.

Humans have more and different feelings than animals and feel things in different, higher ways. They have deeper feelings. If you want to say when a dog is happy it is the very exact same as you being happy, enjoy.

You can whatever to me about evolution. Just like existence, I feel God had a hand in evolution and finally stepped in and gave a soul and certain higher understanding intelligence to the form that was finally best to house it (humans). The kind that could understand the concept of God and make music or tell stories. You can do all you can to refute that if you wanted, but that is something I will never change on either.

Super Aurora wrote:One, not everyone believe in the devil(meaning not everyone is a christian).

That's why I said it's a belief I was talking about. You missed that part.

Super Aurora wrote:two, you dismiss other circumstance like: what if the man/woman have mental illness and can't see or judge upon what he/she is doing is morally correct? or social background?

No I don't dismiss it. As each person presents a new case, I figure that as God let the physical grow naturally, people ended up with things like that. We won't know what they, their souls, really think inside, what they really choose to do, what their will is, but God does and judges them for what he knows and we don't.

As for social background, that won't always be an excuse. Once again, we, like or fallible justice system, cannot always know what someone was thinking, whether they really intended harm or bad. God does however, that's all that matters.

Super Aurora wrote:

Disney Duster wrote:And yes God is more powerful than the Devil. Once again it's a belief, just like believing in God or the Devil in the first place, it's the belief we hold to be true especially since God said it in the Bible. If you don't want to believe that, um, God won't like that, that's bad.

How is it's bad if someone don't believe in God? By that logic does that mean hindu, buddhist, shinto, etc are bad?

Already concept ideas like that(the bold) is the reason why many of these religious wars or fights start in first place.

First, I said it was bad if he believed in God but didn't believe he was the most powerful being in the universe. God would not like that. That's fact. Well, you know, as I believe, but you should know that already.

And I think Budhists and those others do believe in God.

Look, you stated things almost like fact before, like when you said if there was a God, it wouldn't care about trivial things. You didn't say "I believe this" you just said it, and we knew you just believed it. And later I may explain why I don't think that's right, and then let you decide from there if you think my points are right. But when anyone believes something, they believe it is right, and true. So I said to him that it was bad. Yes, only as believe, but I believe it to be true, so I said it as I believed it.

As for the wars, they still gave us these wonderful, great things. One of the few things I will say are good about war. Must people die to get certain things? I hope not, maybe there's a way someday to avoid killing people for it. But I won't deny war has gotten us this freedom to write what we believe right now.

I'm a Christian, and I too believe that people have the freedom to choose who or what they believe in.

Disney Duster wrote:

Lazario wrote: Sorry, Dust, but I think you're projecting a need you feel yourself onto others. And it sure sounds noble. But it's about you, not anyone else.

Nope, I'm not. I'm just saying what I can on a forum where you're supposed to say what you feel and think or know is right.

Yeah you are. And that's why I don't trust what you're saying. I feel like it's for your benefit that you try to convince others to believe. Not ours.

Disney Duster wrote:one of my duties as a Chrisitian is indeed to try and get other people to be Christians. To at least try.

This isn't meant to be rude, but: don't bother. Don't try.

It's not a matter of God and religion being hard to understand. It's a matter of: it doesn't make sense. Not even blind faith makes any sense. In the meantime, while people can tell us we have an obligation to do this and that in preparation for the afterlife- holiness does not take care of rent, food, shelter, clothing, etc. I think that proves how very much life and religion are separate. For most people; it's a waste of time and a petty annoyance at best. Surely, God can see that. So therefore- why worry about what "He" thinks of us on judgment day? "He" would have no right to blame us in any way for the way the rules were set up for us or what we have to do to survive and make a living. So therefore, the entire fear of being judged harshly for doing the wrong thing is moot because we're all guilty for having to compromise spirituality to contribute to a world that thrives on things like capitalism- which requires suffering for some to bring prosperity to others. We're all part of the problem. What does worrying change anything?

While all these people try to convince us that only believing will save us, all hope and faith really affect while we're on Earth is our mood. And convincing us otherwise is just wishful thinking.

littlefuzzy wrote:

Lazario wrote: and Republicans want to own reproductive rights of women

Do you honestly think it's about that??

You're going way off the deep end, LittleFuzzy. Way off...

To ensure they control women and make sure women make the decision they want women to make (in matters such as abortion), Republicans seek to own reproductive rights to a woman's body.

Is that better?

For reference on the male feeling of responsibility to help bring a child into the world... I again turn to Roseanne (she usually makes a damn good point):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbugF8ZrzaQ#t=7m05s & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXp8eaeKPp8

Does that still leave you feeling you have the same right as a woman in having a baby? Because that's the only thing I actually want to hear you explain to me.

In short - most women appreciate a man who will help them, I'm sure. But if they don't care about how the man feels, men need to just get over it. Either way, women are not dispensers that you stick a coin in, pull the lever, get a baby and suddenly it's yours because it was your coin. Nor is it up to the man to take control of everything because they think they put as much into the creation of the baby as a woman. Having a baby is not all about Daddy. The woman should consider the man's feelings, yes. But if she doesn't... That's just tough.

If the woman has it in her body, she makes the decisions. And then when the child is born- you're both screwed because parents do not own the child just like the mother isn't owned by her mother and father. You own a child, another person, in-name-only. Because while it's too young to make decisions for itself, the mother and father are merely borrowing the right to decide what's best for the person- their child. They lose this. And not magically either, like when the kid's no longer a minor. The law may disagree, but we all know how other people aren't trusted to give us our freedoms.

Crummy damn deal, idn't it?

Margos wrote:A man's "reproductive right" is to walk away and deny everything.

Anyway, if a thing cannot live without a host, that thing is a parasite. Only a viable organism capable of living independently (like a third-trimester fetus) can be considered functionally alive.

I actually can't tell what you mean by that. It seems like you agree with me but feel free to correct that assumption if I'm wrong.

If a man's feelings are so abused when a woman has a baby, he needs to learn to forget his feelings. A woman goes through intense physical pain and sometimes suffers extreme psychological and emotional damage from becoming pregnant. While actually delivering the baby, her body goes into chaos. She may actually fart, vomit, urinate, or defecate in front of other people. Not to mention vaginal tears caused by pushing. Which can actually get infected (among other things). The day they can do this for a woman, then they have equal rights in what a woman does with her body. Then we have societal values telling women they have to be married before they give birth. That, plus the denial of sex education for women as teenagers. Women and girls can make some very strange decisions when they're pregnant. They may treat the guy badly or want him not to be involved for any number of reasons. They might even be wrong in doing so. But how can we expect woman will make the right decisions if the country is sending them bad messages? Either way, just handing men an equal say is not an answer. Like it wasn't a man's prerogative that started the problem in the first place.

If men are worried that women can't be trusted with having their baby - they shouldn't have sex.

If men are worried about women hurting their feelings - they shouldn't get involved in a relationship.

Anything else, men have to learn to work together with a woman to figure out. Whether the pregnancy is planned or not. Do men have rights over the baby? As much right as the woman designates they should have. After all, she carried it. Without her body, a baby cannot grow. If men are worried about getting credit for raising a child, they need to do a lot more than argue how much his sperm dictates what genes the child will take from him. Same goes for paying. Just because a man makes a case for his money being as precious to him as he thinks a woman's body is to her does not guarantee him - equal, or - more rights than she has naturally giving birth to the child. So you can feel for the child. How much of your body is matched with how much of a woman's body she puts into giving the child life?

No, what I'm saying is that, in many cases, men simply don't care, and they walk away. They would just say, "Well, you can't prove it's mine," and leave. It happens all the time. So there's no reason for a man to need some sort of "reproductive rights" when every day they prove that they can simply leave at any time if they don't want the responsibility. They can pack their shit and leave. Women don't really have that option. Unless they use abortion, they're stuck with it for at least 9 months. And that really, really isn't fair.

Disney Duster wrote:Super Aurora, I am not pushing my religion on anyone. I am simply saying "You should believe, this is right, as I believe." And that's it. And I am leaving it at that. I feel it is my duty.

That's not the impression it seems we're getting from you.

Disney Duster wrote:Come on, you know I could do worse, you know there are people that would be much worse than me about that.

Maybe LOL.

Disney Duster wrote:All I am saying is that thing. It certainly is different from propaganda. I explain why I believe what I believe and think it is right, and I let people decide from there.

But that's same thing as propaganda. A propaganda is something of convincing a bunch of people into what you believe or follow. All it gamble is that people will follow it or give in to them. There is no force involve.

Disney Duster wrote:I will not change how I feel about that.

That's fine, we already are well aware of that, just that whenever we voice our opinion, you seems to have the tendency that strike back at us in response as if our statement is wrong. That's what most of us had problem with.

This is most likely why you're always in "fights" on this forum.

Disney Duster wrote:As for humans and feelings, yes, human feel things that are different from animals.

You're confusing feelings with intelligence and reasoning. The latter is what makes us higher level (the top) in the animal kingdom.

Disney Duster wrote:Perhaps the feeling of awe,

Dog sees human food- is in awe to want to eat it.

Disney Duster wrote:but definately, other, higher senses.

explain senses. Cause I as far as I've read, animals have superior senses from us. They see, smell, hear, and are more attune with nature than us.

Disney Duster wrote:You cannot deny either that the things I said, creating dramatic stories or understanding God more, are also part of being human instead of animal.

And that's because of intelligence, reasoning, and ability to comprehend, that we gain. Not because of feelings.

Disney Duster wrote:Humans have more and different feelings than animals and feel things in different, higher ways. They have deeper feelings.

again you're not giving any examples. You're just saying the same thing over and over with out any back up to your claim.

Fundamentally, both animals and us(we're animals too btw), both have the same relative emotional feelings of anger, fear, enjoyment, and so forth.

Disney Duster wrote:You can whatever to me about evolution. Just like existence, I feel God had a hand in evolution and finally stepped in and gave a soul and certain higher understanding intelligence to the form that was finally best to house it (humans). The kind that could understand the concept of God and make music or tell stories.

Deist believe in something similar not too far off from that but more likely that the God lay out the law of nature and force and let everything set in it's motion on it's own. Kinda like architect lays out the plan of the building(creator) but let the builders play out it's progress.

Disney Duster wrote: You can do all you can to refute that if you wanted, but that is something I will never change on either.

That much is pretty obvious lol, but I could say what ever you say won't change my ideas either. Which bring up what Lazaro pointed out previously as your "mission" to convert as a duty, seems very moot and pointless.

Disney Duster wrote:That's why I said it's a belief I was talking about. You missed that part.

The way you address it didn't seems to be the case. Whatever.

Disney Duster wrote:No I don't dismiss it. As each person presents a new case, I figure that as God let the physical grow naturally, people ended up with things like that. We won't know what they, their souls, really think inside, what they really choose to do, what their will is, but God does and judges them for what he knows and we don't.

The bold I'd address in next post response below.

As for everything else, Mental illness is a mental disease meaning, stuff like souls, and wills are non-factor here- as they are incapable of perceiving judgment of their own actions. What you think why they go to a mental hospital and not...jail?

Disney Duster wrote:As for social background, that won't always be an excuse. Once again, we, like or fallible justice system, cannot always know what someone was thinking, whether they really intended harm or bad. God does however, that's all that matters.

You don't know how people live their lives. Say a child his entire life been abuse by his father and experience nothing but violence and brutal abuse, mostly likely that kid will grow up be same way as that's mostly what he learn and experience from.

If what your saying is true that God does know already- then God either has a sick humor or just doesn't care.

Also one thing that many people who not religious question is If God knows everything about you since before you were born(omnipotence) aka as predestination, then the point of free will and judgment of your action in life is pointless as God already knows what the fuck will happen to you.

Disney Duster wrote:First, I said it was bad if he believed in God but didn't believe he was the most powerful being in the universe.

Then he wouldn't be a christian then.

Disney Duster wrote:God would not like that. That's fact. Well, you know, as I believe, but you should know that already.

You mean belief, as you being lecturing me about? Don't say fact as it would contradict what you being telling me past couple times.

Disney Duster wrote:And I think Budhists and those others do believe in God.

No they don't, otherwise they wouldn't be Buddhist or Hindus etc. Only people who believe in one monotheism god in this age are: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. All three believing in the same damn god too.

Disney Duster wrote:Look, you stated things almost like fact before, like when you said if there was a God, it wouldn't care about trivial things. You didn't say "I believe this" you just said it, and we knew you just believed it.

The keyword i said is "probably". I said he probably wouldn't give a shit, And this is taking in account from all other factors I've gather from a scientific and logical experience and knowledge. Like the massiveness of the universe and how insignificant we really are, how every new science revelation that gets reveal always disprove one of the things said in the bible, etc.
But even so, at least when I say something, I at least try back up my claim rather than just faith or personal emotional belief alone.

Before you make any other assumptions, I'm a deist- meaning I believe in an all powerful god who possibly create the universe and laws of physic, but that's it. Deist don't follow any book or religious rules or any god intervention like the bible address, heaven and hell, and so forth. In fact I'd argue that being a Deist is safest bet as you believe in all powerful god but without all the other silly nonsense that is sprouted out from religious texts.

All the founding fathers of America(majority of them at least) were deist.

Disney Duster wrote:As for the wars, they still gave us these wonderful, great things. One of the few things I will say are good about war. Must people die to get certain things? I hope not, maybe there's a way someday to avoid killing people for it. But I won't deny war has gotten us this freedom to write what we believe right now.

Ummm the Native Americans got massacre after the war(and even before so too). Our country is no better than any other country. We took away someone's else's land.
And as I said before, we only got this "freedom liberation" only near end of the Revolutionary War. Before that, the colonist didn't really intend to break away from Britain.



btw i left a new pm for you.

Margos wrote:A man's "reproductive right" is to walk away and deny everything.

Margos wrote:Anyway, if a thing cannot live without a host, that thing is a parasite. Only a viable organism capable of living independently (like a third-trimester fetus) can be considered functionally alive.
Wow. And I thought *I* was being politically incorrect!

Especially for LittleFuzzy and Lazario, again another brilliant piece of the late George Carlin, this time on abortion. This could've been written yesterday, it's still so relevant:

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I wanted to quote one brilliant line, but nearly ended up transcribing the whole thing.

And especially for Disney Duster. who thinks war brings such good things, here's the song 'With God on our side'. I wanted to put Bob Dylan's original version up, but it's not on YouTube, but Joan Baez is the closest one could get:

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With God On Our Side

Oh my name it is nothin’
My age it means less
The country I come from
Is called the Midwest
I’s taught and brought up there
The laws to abide
And that the land that I live in
Has God on its side

Oh the history books tell it
They tell it so well
The cavalries charged
The Indians fell
The cavalries charged
The Indians died
Oh the country was young
With God on its side

Oh the Spanish-American
War had its day
And the Civil War too
Was soon laid away
And the names of the heroes
l’s made to memorize
With guns in their hands
And God on their side

Oh the First World War, boys
It closed out its fate
The reason for fighting
I never got straight
But I learned to accept it
Accept it with pride
For you don’t count the dead
When God’s on your side

When the Second World War
Came to an end
We forgave the Germans
And we were friends
Though they murdered six million
In the ovens they fried
The Germans now too
Have God on their side

I’ve learned to hate Russians
All through my whole life
If another war starts
It’s them we must fight
To hate them and fear them
To run and to hide
And accept it all bravely
With God on my side

But now we got weapons
Of the chemical dust
If fire them we’re forced to
Then fire them we must
One push of the button
And a shot the world wide
And you never ask questions
When God’s on your side

Through many dark hour
I’ve been thinkin’ about this
That Jesus Christ
Was betrayed by a kiss
But I can’t think for you
You’ll have to decide
Whether Judas Iscariot
Had God on his side

So now as I’m leavin’
I’m weary as Hell
The confusion I’m feelin’
Ain’t no tongue can tell
The words fill my head
And fall to the floor
If God’s on our side
He’ll stop the next war

This thread reminds me of my puppy. When he chases his tail.

Siren wrote:This thread reminds me of my puppy. When he chases his tail.

More like a snake eating itself...