DVDizzy Forum

And it did great on DVD/Blu Ray. Last I checked it had sold over 4 million DVD's/Blus, so it really only disappointed in it's theatrical release. And I think it would have been suicide to have released this in the summer. Fall was a good time to releases it. They probably should have had it open wide in November instead of December. In any case, I've said it before, I thought it was just a wonderful film regardless of how good or bad it did.

Saturius2000 wrote:And it did great on DVD/Blu Ray. Last I checked it had sold over 4 million DVD's/Blus, so it really only disappointed in it's theatrical release. And I think it would have been suicide to have released this in the summer. Fall was a good time to releases it. They probably should have had it open wide in November instead of December. In any case, I've said it before, I thought it was just a wonderful film regardless of how good or bad it did.

Yes, that's true. After all, Princess Tiana is the official princess and the movie becomes popular anyway.

A relevant gag by Floyd Norman.


Source: https://floydnormancom.sqsp.com/the-cartoon-gallery/

Sotiris wrote:A relevant gag by Floyd Norman.



Source: https://floydnormancom.sqsp.com/the-cartoon-gallery/

Floyd is so annoying. Sorry, I just cannot stand him.

Instead of beating a dead horse he could promote the hand drawn animation from independent filmmakers or Andreas Deja's project. The meander technology is great and innovative and the hand drawn team at Disney is working on a short from what I remember.

I'm not saying the situation is ideal, but there's no denying hand drawn doesn't sell tickets. I blame the DTV experiment for killing hand drawn. More importantly, I blame current management for allowing them to still be on sale. They should be locked in a vault or burned.

But there's more than enough lovely work being done. He should focus on that for once. We all know how he feels by now.

Totally agreed. He's the cliche grumpy old man, and it's obnoxious.

PatrickvD wrote:The meander technology is great and innovative and the hand drawn team at Disney is working on a short from what I remember.

That's not confirmed. It was speculated that the new short is going to employ the 'Paperman' technique based on Steve Hulett's "something old, something new" riddle.

PatrickvD wrote:I blame the DTV experiment for killing hand drawn.

I would say that's only one out of several factors that contributed to hand-drawn animation's demise. Otherwise, how would you explain that CG DTV films have not destroyed theatrical CG animation?

PatrickvD wrote:More importantly, I blame current management for allowing them to still be on sale. They should be locked in a vault or burned.

How is doing that going to help hand-drawn animation now? The industry has long turned CG and it's not going back even if every DTV film gets destroyed.

PatrickvD wrote:But there's more than enough lovely work being done.

More than enough? There are no American hand-drawn features being produced at all. You may be satisfied with indie shorts and the occasional foreign feature but that's hardly 'enough' by any account.

PatrickvD wrote:We all know how he feels by now.

You're forgetting that Floyd's not just a fan. He has dedicated his life to this art form and he has experienced first hand the legacy of hand-drawn animation at Disney. I can't blame him for lamenting Disney abandoning the medium. He's free to express his thoughts and feelings as long as he wants. It's just on his blog after all.

SWillie! wrote:He's the cliche grumpy old man, and it's obnoxious.

You have every right to disagree with him but calling him a "grumpy, old man" is ageist and disrespectful.

Well Technically speaking many animated films are hand made by using their hands on the computer to animated them

Sotiris wrote:That's not confirmed. It was speculated that the new short is going to employ the 'Paperman' technique based on Steve Hulett's "something old, something new" riddle.

Meander or hand drawn, I recall him using the words 'hand drawn team'. Either way, it's something to look forward to.

Sotiris wrote:I would say that's only one of the reasons. Following the same reasoning, how come CG DTV films are not destroying theatrical CG animation?

How is doing that going to help hand-drawn animation now? The industry has long turned CG and it's not going back even if every DTV film gets destroyed.

Because a DTV CG film does not look like dog shit. A DTV Open Season isn't really pissing over anyone's legacy. Outside of the Tinker Bell films, I can't think of a series of CG DTV films that have structurally shit all over Disney or PIXAR's films to such an offensive and mind-bogglingly insulting degree.

Just the THOUGHT of a sequel to Bambi is offensive to me. (Sorry, I'm still upset over the DTV's, I'm still so deeply offended by them). Average Joe thought these films were made by the same people that were making the theatrical features. That right there was pure irreversible damage. Keeping these films on the market, even making two movie collections, fooling consumers into thinking they're equal to the original films, it's preventing the studio from recovering even today.

Several Princess and the Frog reviews said it looked like one of Disney's DTV films. That never once occurred to me watching it. The animation is lovely, but the fact that people brought that up only confirmed how much these films had tainted the legacy of Disney animation. People started linking the DTV's to hand drawn animation. I truly believe in that area, the damage is done.

Sotiris wrote:More than enough? There are no American hand-drawn features being produced at all. You may be satisfied with indie shorts and the occasional foreign feature but that's hardly 'enough' by any account.

I disagree, big budget Hollywood is not the be all, end all of animation. I visit animation film festivals and see gorgeous and wonderful stuff.

Sotiris wrote:You're forgetting that Floyd's not just a fan. He has dedicated his life to this art form and he has experienced first hand the legacy of hand-drawn animation at Disney. I can't blame him for lamenting about Disney abandoning the medium. He has every right to express his thoughts and feelings as long as he wants. It's just on his blog after all.

True, it's on his blog and he can say whatever he wants. That doesn't change the fact that he's beating a dead horse. But you have a point there. It's his right to be upset about Disney abandoning hand drawn as much as I still am upset about the existence and continued home video releases of the DTV films.

I think he's hilarious and spot-on 95% of the time.

I don't think he should stop beating a dead horse, when it's entirely accurate.

I just wanted to add that Floyd is not anti-CG. He has expressed his admiration for the medium plenty of times.

Floyd Norman wrote:I maintain the greatest respect for today's digital animators who continue to do remarkable work and the results can easily be seen up on the big screen in today's animated feature motion pictures.

Source: http://mrfun.squarespace.com/blog/2013/ ... -show.html

Floyd Norman wrote:Many talented CG animators are currently doing some solid work. More often than not their animation is brilliant and they're becoming masters of their craft. I'm sure even Walt Disney would be amazed at the technological strides animation has made.

Source: http://floydnormancom.squarespace.com/b ... -at-disney

On this forum, you must be anti-CG if you dislike the end of hand-drawn animation. The two opinions must go together.

PatrickvD wrote:I disagree, big budget Hollywood is not the be all, end all of animation. I visit animation film festivals and see gorgeous and wonderful stuff.

I didn't say that. It's great that you have those opportunities but most people don't have that privilege. You can't deny that foreign animated features are not easily accessible and especially not for a theatrical experience.

PatrickvD wrote:Because a DTV CG film does not look like dog shit.

I'm guessing you haven't watched The Swan Princess Christmas. Nor the hundreds of other low-budget CG films produced for the DTV market.

Disney's Divinity wrote:On this forum, you must be anti-CG if you dislike the end of hand-drawn animation. The two opinions must go together.

Okay for me personally to get this straight once and for all: I love CG as much as hand drawn. Both can do amazing things. I get the same kick out of watching Snow White as I get watching Brave. Hell, I think animation is the greatest thing in the world.

Sotiris wrote:

PatrickvD wrote:I disagree, big budget Hollywood is not the be all, end all of animation. I visit animation film festivals and see gorgeous and wonderful stuff.

I didn't say that. It's great that you have those opportunities but most people don't have that privilege. You can't deny that foreign animated features are not easily accessible and especially not for a theatrical experience.

Fair enough, for a general audience, it's a loss I guess. But I do encourage anyone that's disappointed by the decline in hand drawn to seek out the amazing things that are being made in Europe and other places in the world.

PatrickvD wrote:

Sotiris wrote:Because a DTV CG film does not look like dog shit.

I'm guessing you haven't watched The Swan Princess Christmas. Nor the hundreds of other low-budget CG films produced for the DTV market.

The Swan Princess Christmas? I'm afraid to google it.... okay hold on, I'm gonna google it....

Clean Up on Page 14

PatrickvD wrote:I love CG as much as hand drawn. Both can do amazing things.

While I appreciate and enjoy CG and stop-motion animation, I must admit I do have a soft spot for hand-drawn animation. However, I don't consider it superior to the other animation mediums. They all have their strengths and limitations and ideally the medium chosen serves the nature of the story first and foremost. It has to do with personal taste and the set of aesthetics one adheres to. And I support that all animation mediums should (and can) have a place in the industry.

PatrickvD wrote:I get the same kick out of watching Snow White as I get watching Brave.

While I do get what you're saying, I find your comparison rather unfortunate.

The one is an undisputed masterpiece; a milestone in animation and American filmmaking with a strong historical, cultural, and artistic significance while the other is a last-year-produced, mediocre-at-best, unimpressive film.

Sorry, just taking any chance I can get to rant about Brave.

This again? I thought we agreed that Disney hasn't give up hand drawn at all.

TsWade2 wrote:This again? I thought we agreed that Disney hasn't give up hand drawn at all.

With Disney of the 21st century they flip flop worse than a politician.

I'm not going to go there again. Why can't we just wait until we heard the news later this year?

Oh guuuuuuuuuys! Look what I found from the WDAS: https://careers.disneyanimation.com/job ... ion?id=282

Haha! Now we can relax that hand drawn is not dead. So there!