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JeanGreyForever wrote:As for the songs, I don't even consider Mulan a musical and both it and Hercules are arguably the two weakest films of the 90s, music-wise. Both of them didn't need songs so I'm glad they've cut them here.

I get why you might think that about Mulan (even though I don't agree) but Hercules? Its soundtrack was the bomb! The movie wouldn't be nowhere near as good without the songs. It's part of what made it so special. By the way, no movie ever "needs" songs. There's no type of story that demands it. Making a story into musical is simply a creative choice.

^ I would say Hercules is weaker than the other films of the ‘90s (aside from Mulan), musically, only because of how great all those soundtracks are. But Hercules still has a great soundtrack, imo. Mulan is the only one I’d say is on the wimpy side. The story / design / characters from Mulan are what I always preferred over several of the others overall (Pocahontas, Tarzan, Hunchback, TLK).

I need a better and more trustworthy source than The DisInsider, but I've long been on the record of saying the live-action "Mulan" doesn't need the songs. Just make an awesome and large-scale action war epic and that's enough to wow the audience. The songs would only be there for the occasional nostalgia points.

I agree with Jean Grey on the strength of the "Mulan" soundtrack. I think "Reflection" is a great song and "I Will Make a Man Out of You" is also a memorable and fun tune. But I've never cared for the other songs or felt they added much to the film (although there are only four songs performed within the film, anyway, with another over the end credits). "A Girl Worth Fighting For" is my least favourite song from a Disney animated feature and I would be 100% fine with not having to see it performed by live-action actors.

estefan wrote:I need a better and more trustworthy source than The DisInsider,

I don't think a forum discussion board needs to be restricted to research paper-level sources. These are things Sotiris (and others, like disneyprincess11) posts as they're found to foster discussion / speculation only and I personally appreciate that. We all know--or should know--these are not set in stone facts in most cases. It's not a complex thing to understand and nobody's stopping you from seeking out your own news.

What's funny is even with so many outside sources there's been very little reported here that's turned out to be wrong either. The "Be Prepared" thing was the only major thing I can recall off the top of my head, but those early stories were just Trumpian articles deliberately designed to foment a hysteria, similar to the "Kiss the Girl" speculation, which is an entirely different problem unto itself.

To be honest i barely consider Mulan a musical. It has a few songs and around the middle of the movie the singing completely stops and no ones sings for the rest of the movie.

I'm not sad the songs are gone. But i will miss mushu and the grandmother.

anyway i'll rather Disney remakes a movie like Mulan that was flawed to begin with than Beauty and the Beast or Little Mermaid which were both masterpieces !

DisneyFan97 wrote:To be honest i barely consider Mulan a musical. It has a few songs and around the middle of the movie the singing completely stops and no ones sings for the rest of the movie.

I'm not sad the songs are gone. But i will miss mushu and the grandmother.

anyway i'll rather Disney remakes a movie like Mulan that was flawed to begin with than Beauty and the Beast or Little Mermaid which were both masterpieces !

Agreed.

Disney's Divinity wrote:What's funny is even with so many outside sources there's been very little reported here that's turned out to be wrong either. The "Be Prepared" thing was the only major thing I can recall off the top of my head.

That didn't come out of nowhere though. In an interview, Elton John talked about the songs that would make it into the remake and mentioned all the other ones by name outside of Be Prepared. People reasonably assumed the song was cut.

Sotiris wrote: I get why you might think that about Mulan (even though I don't agree) but Hercules? Its soundtrack was the bomb! The movie wouldn't be nowhere near as good without the songs. It's part of what made it so special. By the way, no movie ever "needs" songs. There's no type of story that demands it. Making a story into musical is simply a creative choice.

The songs in Hercules are probably the most forgettable from 90s Disney. They're not nearly as iconic and beloved as the soundtracks from the rest of the films from that era. Films like Pocahontas and Hunchback were served well by their musical scores and songs but in Hercules, it feels like songs have been shoehorned in just because it was a given that Disney would feature songs, not because the film actually needed them to progress the plot. Mulan as well, if not even moreso.

I disagree that there aren't stories that demand songs. Just like there are films that frankly shouldn't be musicals or have songs, there are films that do require music, even if it isn't the typical Broadway style that most Disney films model themselves after.

estefan wrote: I agree with Jean Grey on the strength of the "Mulan" soundtrack. I think "Reflection" is a great song and "I Will Make a Man Out of You" is also a memorable and fun tune. But I've never cared for the other songs or felt they added much to the film (although there are only four songs performed within the film, anyway, with another over the end credits). "A Girl Worth Fighting For" is my least favourite song from a Disney animated feature and I would be 100% fine with not having to see it performed by live-action actors.

Reflection is a song I love and while I like I'll Make a Man Out of You, I think the song is highly overrated and not one of the greatest Disney songs the way millennials tend to amp it up to be. The rest aren't very memorable and I definitely agree with you that A Girl Worth Fighting For is one of the worst Disney songs, although my vote for least favorite would be What Makes the Red Man Red, just because of how nonsensical, outdated, and unnecessary the song is.

DisneyFan97 wrote:To be honest i barely consider Mulan a musical. It has a few songs and around the middle of the movie the singing completely stops and no ones sings for the rest of the movie.

I'm not sad the songs are gone. But i will miss mushu and the grandmother.

anyway i'll rather Disney remakes a movie like Mulan that was flawed to begin with than Beauty and the Beast or Little Mermaid which were both masterpieces !

Like Farerb, I also agree. The last song of the film literally abruptly stops, almost like it's pointing to the fact that this is the end of the film's songs altogether. There's really just four songs in the film unless you count that tacky and dated end-credits song which should have been entirely relegated to the end credits and not started during the last scene of the film.

As enjoyable as the comic relief characters were, they were never going to fit into an adaptation that is striving to be accepted by Chinese audiences especially since they were the two most disliked elements besides Mulan's westernized personality.

For people saying Mulan isn't a full-fledged musical, the remake would have been a good opportunity to make it into one. Include Honor to Us All, Reflection, I'll Make a Man Out You, add the deleted Keep 'Em Guessing and Written in Stone, and write a couple of new ones (or even just reprises of the existing ones) and voilà: a full musical! It wouldn't have been hard to pull off.

The songs are part of the DNA of the Disney movie and I don't get why people don't want them included. With all the changes in characters, plot, and music, what makes this Disney's Mulan and not just some random adaptation that could have been made by any other studio? If people want a radically different film from the animated version, they can watch Mulan: Rise of a Warrior or Lady General Hua Mulan and call it a day. I certainly don't want that.

I would prefer if this had all the songs + "Keep ‘Em Guessing" / "Written in Stone." I’ve only explained why I’m still interested in seeing this despite the change. I’m sure there are others who were never interested in this who are fine with the change because they don’t care anyway.

I truly get the feeling the songs were cut to appeal to China’s box office. Unfortunately, I feel like even though Mulan has the least songs of a Disney film, and oftens feels very uneven because of it, this could’ve been an amazing opportunity to truly create something special with the music and expand upon it in major ways. 3/4 songs are some of the most memorable songs of the latter musicals. When people think of that movie, they think of the music. It’s part of why it still has appeal. That’s not to say that the film can’t be great without them. The music was such big part of the nostalgia factor of the original that removing it is a big risk, and one that I think will negatively affect the film in the long run.

^Couldn't agree more, nomad2010. I hope that either online backlash or poor test screenings will force Disney to put the songs back in before the reshoots are done.

When you consider the simple facts, Mulan is a war movie guys..
No wonder its live-action counterpart is one of the least susceptible to become a musical. Don’t consider the 90’s trend like something to be applied anywhere anytime, unless you want it by all means ruined for you..
Yet it doesn’t mean this movie can’t have a GORGEOUS score with a lot of instrumentals and no songs.

Clindor wrote:When you consider the simple facts, Mulan is a war movie guys...

So? Musicals can be of any subject matter and can tackle serious and complex themes. There are plenty of musicals set during wartime. Off the top of my head, there's Les Miserables, South Pacific, Miss Saigon, From Here to Eternity, Allegiance. I'm sure there are more.

I think if the want to make Mulan a musical they need to add a bouch son. Because just using the ones from the movie wouldn't make this movie a satisfying musical.

if Mushu is in the movie he should have a song like was orginally planned with keep them Gussing.

Also The Witch antagonist should also have a song if this is a musical.

And if Grandma Fa is in this movie which seems unlikey she should have a song.

If you do a musical it's a good idea to give as many of the characters solo numbers as you can.

It adds variety, too many songs sung by the same people becomes boring.

But this is probably a mute point anyway.

Because i doubt this movie will be a musical.

They want a chinese war epic like Lord of the Rings to attract chinese audiences.

They even hired the same production designer as LOTR.

Disney probably cares very litlle what americans or even any western audiences want in this movie.

I think they think china alone will generate so much money form this that no other country needs to like it.

I actually have a colleague at work who say there(is a non binary person) favorite Disney movie is Mulan( and Pocahontas) They are very worried Disney will screw things up. But Disney probably cares where litte what people like them thinks.

Clindor wrote:When you consider the simple facts, Mulan is a war movie guys..
No wonder its live-action counterpart is one of the least susceptible to become a musical. Don’t consider the 90’s trend like something to be applied anywhere anytime, unless you want it by all means ruined for you..
Yet it doesn’t mean this movie can’t have a GORGEOUS score with a lot of instrumentals and no songs.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Can you imagine a film like Braveheart or Saving Private Ryan being musicals? War films generally don't lend themselves to musicals.

Sotiris wrote:So? Musicals can be of any subject matter and can tackle serious and complex themes. There are plenty of musicals set during wartime. Off the top of my head, there's Les Miserables, South Pacific, Miss Saigon, From Here to Eternity, Allegiance. I'm sure there are more.

There's a huge difference between those films and Mulan. Les Mis crosses a vast time span to portray the lives of the downtrodden in a country where revolution ultimately didn't help them at all. Actual "wartime," if you can even call it that isn't even present until Act 2 and it's only for a few brief scenes. Much of that act is about the love triangle and the core characters escaping from the bloodshed around them so it's still very personal. Similarly, Miss Saigon is a musical that focuses on the intimate lives of a handful affected by war. Act 2 is set years later so war is only present in the first act, most of which takes place during the soldiers' downtime. War in most of those titles you mentioned, or at least the ones I'm familiar with, are used as plot devices and context for the settings of the film rather than actual scenes that lend themselves to the musical format.

Mulan on the other hand, after the opening and the last five minutes of the film, spends most of the time with the characters being trained for war and then actual battles.

JeanGreyForever wrote:Can you imagine a film like Braveheart or Saving Private Ryan being musicals? War films generally don't lend themselves to musicals.

Yeah, I can totally see those becoming musicals. I hope one day they get adapted for Broadway just to prove you wrong. Update: It turns out Braveheart was turned into a stage musical in Germany!

JeanGreyForever wrote:Mulan on the other hand, after the opening and the last five minutes of the film, spends most of the time with the characters being trained for war and then actual battles.

It's hardly just the opening. Mulan doesn't go into training until the second act. The war is used as backdrop for an intimate, coming of age story which is musical theater's bread and butter. I'm not suggesting they put musical numbers during the fight scenes but let's not pretend that making this into a musical is a preposterous proposition when the original is actually a musical (regardless if you personally consider it one or not).

Sotiris wrote:Yeah, I can totally see those becoming musicals. I hope one day they get adapted for Broadway just to prove you wrong. Update: It turns out Braveheart was turned into a stage musical in Germany!

If you look at the musical, entitled Wallace, they aren't even bothering to try and adapt sets and costumes. It's just singers in contemporary clothes on the stage singing while the orchestra plays. Not sure if this was specifically designed as a stylistic element or because they recognized the constraints of adapting a wartime story.
https://www.facebook.com/wallace.musical

Sotiris wrote:It's hardly just the opening. Mulan doesn't go into training until the second act. The war is used as backdrop for an intimate, coming of age story which is musical theater's bread and butter. I'm not suggesting they put musical numbers during the fight scenes but let's not pretend that making this into a musical is a preposterous proposition when the original is actually a musical (regardless if you personally consider it one or not).

By the 20 minute mark of the film, Mulan has left home. This isn't even including screentime for the intro with the Great Wall of China and later on the Emperor. Half of the film's songs take place in those first 20 minutes. The rest of the film is completely devoted to wartime, between training, marching, and actual battles. For a 1 hour and 28 minute running time, that means there's more than an hour dedicated to the actual war elements, of which only two songs are included. A training montage and a marching sequence can work for the musical elements of the film but how many more training montages can they create? Especially since of the film's four main songs, only two are actually popular and well-liked. I don't think it's shocking at all that Mulan is barely considered a musical and certainly Disney's weakest from the 90s, and it's even less astounding that Disney hasn't bothered to adapt it as one for the live-action feature. This film isn't as directly linked with its songs as Beauty and the Beast or Aladdin are especially in the public consciousness.

And as another posted pointed out, this film is trying to directly appeal to the Chinese market. I'm really not familiar with their stance on musicals but I do know that while the film had pretty mixed receptions in China (at best), the film's songs were not particularly beloved.

I agree with you, Sotiris, that a film's subject matter really has no relevance to whether it can/will be a musical or not. TLK has music and it's Shakespearean. Hunchback has music and it’s honestly much darker than anything in Mulan. Pocahontas focuses on a race-based conflict. Fairy tales are not the only things that can be musicals.